Are you a Democrat or Republican?

[Moxon4]

So, because only two parties have the national structure. we should only vote for them? That is the essense of your argument.

And yes - voting for them means you are supporting their platform. When you pick a candidate you endorse his party, why else is there a party system? Do you truly think George H.W. Bush thinks, Oh, moxon voted for me, but he really thinks republicans should be more centrist.

Try getting on the presidential ballot. Major party candidates are automatic - others must gather 5% of the state's registered voters on petitions in order even to be on the state ballot. That is exclusionary - in effect stating that only major parties can truly represent the people properly.

What on earth makes you think I'm on my ass as far as politics go? Where the hell did you read that?

You cannot change a political party by voting for it. Like it or not - they consider your vote to mean your endorsement of their candidacy.

You totally misunderstood what I said, first the sarcasm, and secondly, I was talking about primaries, which is where you decide who gets to run for either Party, and where you have a more diverse segement of candidates to choose from. Look at what Democrats are doing to Leiberman in connecticut, they don't like him, so in the primary they're supporting someone who thinks more like them, and thus having an actual influence on the Party, you know, working through the system.

That's the problem, it's not just about who wins the Presidency, it's about who is in the Senate, the house, who your county commissioners are, who your state reps are. You build parties from the ground up, not the top down. If you get volunteers and have real support and organization 5% isn't that hard to get. If a 3rd party wants to stay around, they need to become a big-time presence locally so that they can sustain power when they go for higher offices

 

[Moxon4]

It still doesn't fly. Sorry.

It does if you know the history of what happened in those races

 

[Moxon4]

Would the elimination of the electoral college have a positive effect on the viability of 3rd parties?

Yes it would, getting rid of all the "winner takes all" aspects of the US electoral system would help third parties. That is why in europe there are more parties, getting 2% of the vote gets you 2% of the seats, and so they can sustain themselves and maintain support.

 

[Holly Delight]

Would the elimination of the electoral college have a positive effect on the viability of 3rd parties?

Not sure we could eliminate it soon enough, but how about if the votes could be distributed proportionately by party? So in effect we could have states that are a combo of red, white and blue?

 

[Moxon4]

Not sure we could eliminate it soon enough, but how about if the votes could be distributed proportionately by party? So in effect we could have states that are a combo of red, white and blue?

Colorado had that on their state ballot in '04

 

[alabama]

It does if you know the history of what happened in those races

Actually no.

 

[kbate]

If a 3rd party wants to stay around, they need to become a big-time presence locally so that they can sustain power when they go for higher offices

Yet by voting major party to 'salvage your vote' - you cannot do this. Even in local politics - we are told we are throwing our vote away by voting for libertarians, greens, communists, whomever...


Telling me I should not vote for a candidate - because he cannot hope to win - is kind of self defeating.

 

[Moxon4]

Actually no.

It does, look it up

 

[Moxon4]

Yet by voting major party to 'salvage your vote' - you cannot do this. Even in local politics - we are told we are throwing our vote away by voting for libertarians, greens, communists, whomever...

Well then you need to get involved

 

[alabama]

It does, look it up

It doesn't.

 

[alabama]

Well then you need to get involved

And one of those steps is to not WASTE your vote on one of the two major parties.

 

[MisterEdMe]

Hate to admit it, but I actually voted for Ross Perot back then. It came down to a choice between the lesser of 2 evils, and Perot provided the 3rd alternative at just the right time. Then he had to go and screw things up by withdrawing and then re-entering.

To be honest though, Clinton ended up making me believe in him. President Clinton was sadly misjudged for the wrong reasons.

 

[Macayo]

You can't lump everyone into just two groups.World doesn't run like that. Stupid poll.

I agree!

Thank you,
Macayo

 

[bisexplicit]

Bump this on Monday morning. There's a big republican daytime crowd.

 

[Moxon4]

And one of those steps is to not WASTE your vote on one of the two major parties.

Again, primaries are how to change how a Party works.

in 1968 Wallace split the Democratic ticket, Nixon won the South, and the election.

1912, Roosevelt ran third party, split the Republicans, and Wilson got elected.

Serious 3rd party candidates take votes away from major parties

 

[kbate]

Again, primaries are how to change how a Party works.

in 1968 Wallace split the Democratic ticket, Nixon won the South, and the election.

1912, Roosevelt ran third party, split the Republicans, and Wilson got elected.

Serious 3rd party candidates take votes away from major parties

I do not want to change how the Republicans and Democrats work. I want another choice of people who actually represent my ideals.

I do not wish to register as a Republican in order to try to get libertarians into power.

I want 3rd party candidates to take votes away from major party candidates, the falsehood is that only major party candidates are able to win. Your plan for us to support them - even if we do not want them only enhances their hegemony.

 

[Moxon4]

I do not want to change how the Republicans and Democrats work. I want another choice of people who actually represent my ideals.

I do not wish to register as a Republican in order to try to get libertarians into power.

I want 3rd party candidates to take votes away from major party candidates, the falsehood is that only major party candidates are able to win. Your plan for us to support them - even if we do not want them only enhances their hegemony.

Well have fun throwing your vote away then

 

[LeahLo519]

I dont care why you are what you are.

I just wanna see names.

Suuuure...

If you wanna know, just ask, like you did...but don't insult everyone's intelligence by pretending not to care either way.

 

[Fagin]

Well have fun throwing your vote away then

Quite contrary. It is you that admittedly throws their vote away by not voting for who you want and voting for who you think has a chance to win.

 

[Moxon4]

Quite contrary. It is you that admittedly throws their vote away by not voting for who you want and voting for who you think has a chance to win.

Did I say I always vote for someone in the 2 big parties? or that I always vote?

 

[FinePhilly]

Republican, althought I will vote Democrat if I like the democratic canditate better. I vote on issues, not on party lines.

 

[Hooper_X]

Neither, albeit I vote for democratic candidates in national elections and would never ever consider voting for a republican.

 

[Moxon4]

Neither, albeit I vote for democratic candidates in national elections and would never ever consider voting for a republican.

So you always vote for them, yet you don't consider yourself one?

 

[Fagin]

Did I say I always vote for someone in the 2 big parties?

Sorry for the assumption. It wasn't a big leap since this whole thread you are telling people they are throwing away their vote if they don't vote the Big Two.

or that I always vote?

Now there is the only way to throw away your vote... straight into the garbage can.

 

[Moxon4]

Sorry for the assumption. It wasn't a big leap since this whole thread you are telling people they are throwing away their vote if they don't vote the Big Two. Now there is the only way to throw away your vote... straight into the garbage can.

Well I was arguing for working through the parties, since that is the only way to really succeed. I've voted for Libertarians in local races before.

But if I don't like any candidate I'll skip it