Content clarification: underage

[SpanInquis]

I have a story that I'm still working on. It involves sex between a husband and wife, married for a long time, but whose sex life has diminished over the years.

The genesis of the story is an incident that actually happened to me, where my wife and I were having sex and didn't realize that our very quiet 2 year old had crept into the room and was watching us, which we didn't realize until we were almost done.

The story I created and extrapolated revolves around the married couple reminiscing over the memory of the previous sexual encounter, which I set on Valentines Day, which motivate them to re-create it (without the little girl, who is now grown) and how it now turns them on to have mind-blowing sex together, like they used to.

My question involves this language of the content guidelines,

• Sexual activity involving characters under the age of 18 (including but not limited to explicit sexual discussion, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse). Literotica has always had a strict policy against any under-18 content, and any attempt to violate that policy is grounds for account termination.

Technically there is an underage observer that is viewing the sex. It's innocent, and kind of sweet, as she is not a participant, and she's completely incidental to the action and interaction between husband and wife.

Would that violate the guidelines, and/or be rejected because she's in the room, albeit in their memory, for a short amount of time?

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

I think in one of my early threads, an author had previously mentioned an underage spectator on the other side of a door. I forget if the author got that detail through the checker.

Personally, I’d err on the side of caution if it were me. Is it crucial to the plot? Does removing it mess up the rest of the story’s plot points?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

That would violate the guidelines most certainly. An underage character can't be in the same room where sex is going on, nor can it be referenced during the sex in any way, such as calling out his or her name, thinking about him or her, etc. I believe you can't even have adults having sex in one room, and their cries of pleasure being heard in another room by an underage character. An underage character can't be sexualized in any way, directly or indirectly.

That being said, there are those who get away with breaking this particular rule, as a matter of special privilege even maybe, although I can't say that I know that for sure. But it does look like that to me.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

This is an odd one, I think. The only one who could rule on it is the site owner, Laurel. I would suggest you PM her.

 

[Bamagan]

I have a story that I'm still working on. It involves sex between a husband and wife, married for a long time, but whose sex life has diminished over the years.

The genesis of the story is an incident that actually happened to me, where my wife and I were having sex and didn't realize that our very quiet 2 year old had crept into the room and was watching us, which we didn't realize until we were almost done.

The story I created and extrapolated revolves around the married couple reminiscing over the memory of the previous sexual encounter, which I set on Valentines Day, which motivate them to re-create it (without the little girl, who is now grown) and how it now turns them on to have mind-blowing sex together, like they used to.

My question involves this language of the content guidelines,

• Sexual activity involving characters under the age of 18 (including but not limited to explicit sexual discussion, voyeurism, exhibitionism, fantasizing, masturbation, and graphic sexualized descriptions, in addition to actual sexual intercourse). Literotica has always had a strict policy against any under-18 content, and any attempt to violate that policy is grounds for account termination.

Technically there is an underage observer that is viewing the sex. It's innocent, and kind of sweet, as she is not a participant, and she's completely incidental to the action and interaction between husband and wife.

Would that violate the guidelines, and/or be rejected because she's in the room, albeit in their memory, for a short amount of time

If the event happens in 'real time' with the underage observer, then no, it's not allowable. There's a possibility that if you don't describe the encounter in any detail, and it's purely them reminiscing about their old sex lives and they mention how they got caught by their kid that one time, that it would be allowed. I'd also advise against having them mention the kid being present the last time while they're re-enacting things.
The idea seems to be that, regardless of your intent, if the scene reads like it would make a pedophile breathe heavily, they'd rather not publish it.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think it probably violates the guidelines. The question to ask is, why do you want to include this element in story? How does it add to the story. If, arguably, it adds to the titillation level of the story, then I think it would be interpreted as violating the rule. "Underage voyeurism" is definitely an element of underage sexuality, which is what the site is trying to avoid.

 

[alohadave]

Would that violate the guidelines, and/or be rejected because she's in the room, albeit in their memory, for a short amount of time?

Absolutely violates.

 

[TheLobster]

Like others mentioned already, this doesn't look like an important enough detail to be worth risking the rejection of your story.

It seems minor enough that it should be possible to replace it with something else -- even a Noodle Incident -- or just make the present-day encounter special in some other way. Perhaps some other detail that reminds the couple of their youth, which doesn't directly involve their children, could be used here.

 

[MillieDynamite]

The point of the rule is you can't have that in the story. Not as a memory, a passing statement, or a momentary thought.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

It seems minor enough that it should be possible to replace it with something else -- even a Noodle Incident -- or just make the present-day encounter special in some other way. Perhaps some other detail that reminds the couple of their youth, which doesn't directly involve their children, could be used here.

My mind immediately went to: instead of a 2-year-old being present during the act, have that act be the child's conception. That would certainly remind one of one's young adulthood (if the child was conceived while one was young, of course).

Impregnation is totally OK on this site, in fact it's a fetish much served here.

-Annie

 

[MillieDynamite]

Famous last words, "You'll pull out, right?" she asked. "Of course," he said. This is followed by, "You may kiss the bride, even though it's obvious you've done way more than kissing," Reverend Suchandso said.

My mind immediately went to: instead of a 2-year-old being present during the act, have that act be the child's conception. That would certainly remind one of one's young adulthood (if the child was conceived while one was young, of course).

Impregnation is totally OK on this site, in fact it's a fetish much served here.

-Annie

 

[ElectricBlue]

Technically there is an underage observer that is viewing the sex. It's innocent, and kind of sweet, as she is not a participant, and she's completely incidental to the action and interaction between husband and wife.

That's the breach of policy, right there. You would be sexualising the child, just by its presence.

Would that violate the guidelines, and/or be rejected because she's in the room, albeit in their memory, for a short amount of time?

I'd say you'd get a pretty quick rejection.

Get the child out of the room, ideally out of the house, before there's any sexual description.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I believe you can't even have adults having sex in one room, and their cries of pleasure being heard in another room by an underage character. An underage character can't be sexualized in any way, directly or indirectly.

I disagree. Here are some excerpts from my latest story:

"I hope it's like riding a bike," Stephanie said as she leaned against Walker's chest. "Once you learn how, you never forget."

Walker put his arms around Stephanie and embraced his wife for the first time in nine years, "I don't know about you, but I haven't forgotten a thing."

She had stayed on the phone with Jocelyn too long and it was now past her weeknight bedtime. Mindy wondered why neither of her parents had come into her room to remind her. She opened her bedroom door and didn't hear the TV or any other sounds from the center of the house, so she assumed that her mom and dad were already in the master bedroom on the other side of the house.

Remembering her t-shirt, Mindy quickly headed for the kitchen to retrieve it. She had just picked it up from the table when she heard a scream from her parent's room.

It was her mom's voice, "OH, GOD!"

Her mom didn't sound in pain but Mindy paused to see if anything would follow that scream. It took only a few seconds before repeated screams of "YES! YES! YES!", once more in her mom's voice could be heard.

Mindy giggled as she thought, "Definitely not screams of pain." She headed back to her bedroom, but before she got out of the living room, she heard her mother scream, "JESUS! I sure love my bike."

"This is too weird," Mindy thought as she closed her bedroom door behind her.

"Let me rinse and get out, then you can have the shower to yourself. Tomorrow is Saturday and we won't be as rushed for time, if you get my meaning."

"Loud and clear," Walker said as he stepped back once more to give Stephanie full access to the stream of water. "By the way, don't be surprised if Mindy asks you about the new bike that she apparently heard you mention at some point last night. She said that maybe you and her could go riding together some time"

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I disagree. Here are some excerpts from my latest story:

"I hope it's like riding a bike," Stephanie said as she leaned against Walker's chest. "Once you learn how, you never forget."

Walker put his arms around Stephanie and embraced his wife for the first time in nine years, "I don't know about you, but I haven't forgotten a thing."

She had stayed on the phone with Jocelyn too long and it was now past her weeknight bedtime. Mindy wondered why neither of her parents had come into her room to remind her. She opened her bedroom door and didn't hear the TV or any other sounds from the center of the house, so she assumed that her mom and dad were already in the master bedroom on the other side of the house.

Remembering her t-shirt, Mindy quickly headed for the kitchen to retrieve it. She had just picked it up from the table when she heard a scream from her parent's room.

It was her mom's voice, "OH, GOD!"

Her mom didn't sound in pain but Mindy paused to see if anything would follow that scream. It took only a few seconds before repeated screams of "YES! YES! YES!", once more in her mom's voice could be heard.

Mindy giggled as she thought, "Definitely not screams of pain." She headed back to her bedroom, but before she got out of the living room, she heard her mother scream, "JESUS! I sure love my bike."

"This is too weird," Mindy thought as she closed her bedroom door behind her.

"Let me rinse and get out, then you can have the shower to yourself. Tomorrow is Saturday and we won't be as rushed for time, if you get my meaning."

"Loud and clear," Walker said as he stepped back once more to give Stephanie full access to the stream of water. "By the way, don't be surprised if Mindy asks you about the new bike that she apparently heard you mention at some point last night. She said that maybe you and her could go riding together some time"

The fact that your story was published doesn't make me wrong. I'd say that the excerpt you posted qualifies as a sort of auditory voyeurism. It sounds harmless enough but technically it's probably in breach of guidelines.

I remember participating in a thread ages ago that covered this exact subject. Whether or not I will make an effort to dig it up is a whole different thing...

 

[MillieDynamite]

First of all, if this means they haven't fucked for nine years, what's it say about their relationship? Second, where in what we read is it spelled out that the daughter is 9 years old? She could be 19 or 29, from what I've read here.

I disagree. Here are some excerpts from my latest story:

"I hope it's like riding a bike," Stephanie said as she leaned against Walker's chest. "Once you learn how, you never forget."

Walker put his arms around Stephanie and embraced his wife for the first time in nine years, "I don't know about you, but I haven't forgotten a thing."

She had stayed on the phone with Jocelyn too long and it was now past her weeknight bedtime. Mindy wondered why neither of her parents had come into her room to remind her. She opened her bedroom door and didn't hear the TV or any other sounds from the center of the house, so she assumed that her mom and dad were already in the master bedroom on the other side of the house.

Remembering her t-shirt, Mindy quickly headed for the kitchen to retrieve it. She had just picked it up from the table when she heard a scream from her parent's room.

It was her mom's voice, "OH, GOD!"

Her mom didn't sound in pain but Mindy paused to see if anything would follow that scream. It took only a few seconds before repeated screams of "YES! YES! YES!", once more in her mom's voice could be heard.

Mindy giggled as she thought, "Definitely not screams of pain." She headed back to her bedroom, but before she got out of the living room, she heard her mother scream, "JESUS! I sure love my bike."

"This is too weird," Mindy thought as she closed her bedroom door behind her.

"Let me rinse and get out, then you can have the shower to yourself. Tomorrow is Saturday and we won't be as rushed for time, if you get my meaning."

"Loud and clear," Walker said as he stepped back once more to give Stephanie full access to the stream of water. "By the way, don't be surprised if Mindy asks you about the new bike that she apparently heard you mention at some point last night. She said that maybe you and her could go riding together some time"

 

[SpanInquis]

Thanks all. Very helpful, everyone.

I do consider it important to the plot, because it's a specific memory that sparked some great sex. But since it actually happened to me, I guess it's only essential to MY plot. Another plot could rework it.

So, I just need to pull myself out of it a little further. Make it more universal.

I'll keep working on it.

Thanks again.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

@BobbyBrandt I'm copy-pasting this from a forum thread from a few years back.

But, another story (my 2020 Summer Lovin’ story) was kicked back for underage. It was set at a municipal pool and my MMC (already made clear to be 18 years old and a maintenance man at the pool) was testing the chlorine in the children’s pool (separate from the main pool) and a mother with her two children splashing around there (mother was cousin to the MMC’s new girlfriend) flirted with him. Nothing more than standing close and teasing him verbally. It must’ve been that, because I modified that scene so the mother who did the flirting and teasing was at the main pool with another mother and both had sent their children with their grandmothers to the zoo.
I amped up the flirting a bit in the reworked version with no children around and it posted right away.

I don't see how the above example can be in breach of guidelines and your story isn't.

But it's pointless to argue these fine points in the guidelines as the website is very inconsistent about applying them anyway. The ruling differs vastly from case to case.

 

[NaughteeDragon]

The short answer is that you don’t say anything about age or age category, and you definitely don’t put them in sexual situations.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The fact that your story was published doesn't make me wrong. I'd say that the excerpt you posted qualifies as a sort of auditory voyeurism. It sounds harmless enough but technically it's probably in breach of guidelines.

I remember participating in a thread ages ago that covered this exact subject. Whether or not I will make an effort to dig it up is a whole different thing...

To be honest, the story was kicked back initially because there was a section where a social worker is explaining that the daughter was accusing a strange man of masturbating in front of her. I changed it to a "lewd act" and it was approved. The allegations were false, and the girl never witnessed anything, so taken in that context it probably helped its approval.

I've mentioned it several times, when getting close to the edge, context counts more than content alone.

 

[KachinaDoll]

If you mention the child's age then it's a pretty certain 'No'. But you'd probably get away with, "Hey, remember when Melissa caught us fucking?"