Could you vote for Hillary Clinton?

[Marquis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apv5KWHgXTE

This is very telling of Hillary's downfall. Yeah, it's Fox News but I don't think they are plants.

Wow, is this what's going on right now?

Holy shit, I didn't see this coming.

 

[JMohegan]

No, I did not, I didn't even know there was a debate actually. Was it like a pre-new hampshire thing?

I actually hate missing opportunities to judge the candidates, I try to tivo as many of these things as possible.

Interesting Richardson comment. Wonder if he's considering a Clinton/Richardson ticket. I wonder at what stage these people stop considering their own candidacies credible.

ABC News hosted back-to-back debates in NH - Republicans 1st, Democrats next, from 7 to 11 EST.

A guy sitting next to me referred to Richardson as "Hillary's bitch". Not entirely a fair characterization, but it's pretty clear to me that he is, in fact, essentially campaigning to be her VP. SNL had an amusing skit about this on Halloween.

Regardless, his leper remark was well-taken. On paper, Richardson himself looks a hell of a lot more impressive than either Obama or Edwards.

 

[JMohegan]

Wow, is this what's going on right now?

Holy shit, I didn't see this coming.

In my opinion, Hillary blew it last night because she went on the attack against Obama and in the process became nasty, defensive, and almost shrill. Obama was calm, dignified, and rational. Edwards was impassioned. All of them looked exhausted.

 

[Marquis]

In my opinion, Hillary blew it last night because she went on the attack against Obama and in the process became nasty, defensive, and almost shrill. Obama was calm, dignified, and rational. Edwards was impassioned. All of them looked exhausted.

I guess Iowa was a hard pill to swallow.

I just searched through my interactive guide for a repeat of the debate you're talking about and can't seem to find it. I'll be sure to record Vegas on the 15th, I feel out of the loop.

 

[JMohegan]

I guess Iowa was a hard pill to swallow.

I just searched through my interactive guide for a repeat of the debate you're talking about and can't seem to find it. I'll be sure to record Vegas on the 15th, I feel out of the loop.

Click me. Just a piece, but it will give you the general idea.

 

[Marquis]

Click me. Just a piece, but it will give you the general idea.

I would need to see this in better context. Seems like she did lose her cool a bit, but based on what she's saying her, I can sympathize with her frustration.

The "making change is not about... a speech you make" line was a little low.

Yeah, I don't know.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

I don't know how good this info is, but from what I've heard, Drudge often comes up with things days ahead of the "regular" media...

TALK OF HILLARY EXIT ENGULFS CAMPAIGNS

This is NOT a "nyah-nyah" or any kind of invitation to a flame war - just sharing something that may (or may not) be of interest.

 

[WriterDom]

There is no crying in politics.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4097366

I bet she does a good orgasm too.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

There is no crying in politics.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=4097366

I bet she does a good orgasm too.

Wow - you sounded just like Tom Hanks when you said that!

 

[RuffStuff76]

I could, but I won't. I wouldn't even consider it until she releases her memos.

~H.

 

[Marquis]

OK, so I saw the Vegas debate last night and I must admit that Obama is winning me over.

My ex sent me a youtube video to pick on me, she thinks I'm just jealous of him because I wanted to be the first black president.

Meet my inner self-hating negro

 

[Netzach]

These are even more interesting and imploding campaigns than I thought possible. And that's just the Dems.

 

[JMohegan]

OK, so I saw the Vegas debate last night and I must admit that Obama is winning me over.

My ex sent me a youtube video to pick on me, she thinks I'm just jealous of him because I wanted to be the first black president.

Meet my inner self-hating negro

Jesus. I honestly don't know what to say about that video.

What happened at the debate? I didn't get a chance to watch it.

 

[im_a_voyeur]

As chance would have it, I somehow end up always having to work whenever there's a debate going on. Working nights has also changed my tv viewing habits. I don't watch as much television as I used to.

I feel completely out of the loop and this is really hard for me because politics give me a hard on. I am even more so impassioned whenever a presidential election is coming up. This is also an area that bonds me with my father because he's a big political junkie too. I really need to get tivo in my life.

 

[Marquis]

These are even more interesting and imploding campaigns than I thought possible. And that's just the Dems.

Yeah, these are definitely exciting times.

Jesus. I honestly don't know what to say about that video.

What happened at the debate? I didn't get a chance to watch it.

Well, I didn't watch the last one so my analysis won't be able to reflect the progression, but here's what I see happening:

First off, Obama is coming off really super confident. Not cocky or arrogant, but genuinely confident. He is answering questions really well and seems to communicate with real sincerity. At one point of the debate they asked the candidates to state their greatest strengths and weaknesses. He was the only one who didn't skirt the weakness portion.

What he stated as his weakness was that he loses papers a lot and his desk isn't so neat, which drew laughter from the crowd. He went on to explain that's why he's so careful to hire the best of the best when it comes to that kind of work, which essentially addressed my earlier expressed concern. I would've stuck with Hillary if it sounded like she believed her counter, but she just didn't.

All the questions asked were very, very aggressive. I was particularly interested in hearing Obama discuss rumors of him holding muslim allegiance because i know that this will come up more and more. I thought he handled everything marvelously.

Hillary continued to play the experience card. Unfortunately, it sounded like a broken record and kept me wondering where the beef was. Obama did a great job of showing rather than telling, referring to his senate activities and such, whereas Hillary just seemed to be on the defense constantly, making lots of vague but not quite indirect suggestions that voters consider experience when choosing their candidate. She raised her voice a lot, at times her answers came off almost like threats. Generally did not present herself, well.... presidentially.

Edwards is the dark horse at this point and seems to understand that. His motif seems to be one of strength. He referred repeatedly, incessantly to his humble background and also did his best to present himself as the most centrist candidate. There was, in my opinion, significant implication of him being more "electable" than the other candidates in the subtext.

At this point, I would vote for Obama in the primary if I could. Unfortunately Florida tried to pull a Michigan with the same results, so no delegates are being sent from my state.

That's ok, we're used to that sort of thing in my state.

 

[FurryFury]

It's pretty clear to me that the American people are not happy with the "choices" presented to them by the political parties this election.

The home schooling groups keep touting this or that candidate who is "for" home schooling. I'm just banging my head against a wall over that shit.

Seriously, this is not a federal matter and we shouldn't hope that it becomes one. Plus there are much bigger issues IMO but whatever.

Here is my opinion, very few want another Republican in the white house right now. That means that it might make it more possible to get a woman or black in as President than it would normally be. Let's exploit the situation while we can!

Still the selection of candidates suck.

Obama has my vote at the moment.

No more Clintons or Bushes please!

I've got to love how "undecided" nearly won last night in the demo polls! LMFAO!

And how each primary brings a different Republican "winner."

 

[JMohegan]

Well, I didn't watch the last one so my analysis won't be able to reflect the progression, but here's what I see happening:

First off, Obama is coming off really super confident. Not cocky or arrogant, but genuinely confident. He is answering questions really well and seems to communicate with real sincerity. At one point of the debate they asked the candidates to state their greatest strengths and weaknesses. He was the only one who didn't skirt the weakness portion.

What he stated as his weakness was that he loses papers a lot and his desk isn't so neat, which drew laughter from the crowd. He went on to explain that's why he's so careful to hire the best of the best when it comes to that kind of work, which essentially addressed my earlier expressed concern. I would've stuck with Hillary if it sounded like she believed her counter, but she just didn't.

All the questions asked were very, very aggressive. I was particularly interested in hearing Obama discuss rumors of him holding muslim allegiance because i know that this will come up more and more. I thought he handled everything marvelously.

Hillary continued to play the experience card. Unfortunately, it sounded like a broken record and kept me wondering where the beef was. Obama did a great job of showing rather than telling, referring to his senate activities and such, whereas Hillary just seemed to be on the defense constantly, making lots of vague but not quite indirect suggestions that voters consider experience when choosing their candidate. She raised her voice a lot, at times her answers came off almost like threats. Generally did not present herself, well.... presidentially.

Edwards is the dark horse at this point and seems to understand that. His motif seems to be one of strength. He referred repeatedly, incessantly to his humble background and also did his best to present himself as the most centrist candidate. There was, in my opinion, significant implication of him being more "electable" than the other candidates in the subtext.

At this point, I would vote for Obama in the primary if I could. Unfortunately Florida tried to pull a Michigan with the same results, so no delegates are being sent from my state.

That's ok, we're used to that sort of thing in my state.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out. Not sure there has been much "progression"; your descriptions sound pretty much like my impressions from the last round.

I see Obama as confident and sincere, just as you say. Eloquent, intelligent, gracious, unflappable. Dignity personified.

In my view, Hillary comes off better when she's not defensive and borderline threatening. She's really far more effective when she sticks to calm, deliberate, and knowledgeable. Last time, she was not only combative but really insulting and offensive as well. At one point she practically shrieked, "Chaaaaaaange? You want chaaaaaaange? A woman for president, now THAT would be change!" --- Totally ignoring the fact that she was sitting next to an Hispanic (Richardson) and African American.

Edwards seriously annoys me, but I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe it's a guy with a $400 haircut incessantly talking about his humble background. Hard to say. In any case, if he's talking about being more "electable", he's on awfully thin ice, I'd say.

As for your last line - ha, ha! Fuckin' Florida. I've got a buddy who says that, every damn time Bush comes up in conversation. "Fuckin' Florida. Jesus Christ."

 

[midwestyankee]

I've stated earlier in this thread that my previous preference for Senator Clinton has evaporated in favor of Senator Obama. That said, I found this article to be both illuminating and provocative. Unfortunately, I doubt if the mainstream media will pick up the story.

The Diebold Effect: Hillary's Votes Higher from Diebold Machines Even Controlling for Demographics.

I have also said that I take the Clinton campaign's tactics as being indicative of the style of governance that she would follow if put into office. No thank you.

 

[FurryFury]

Stray thoughts . . .

If someone were campaigning with the slogan "A pizza in every kitchen" I might vote for em.

 

[midwestyankee]

If someone were campaigning with the slogan "A pizza in every kitchen" I might vote for em.

I think I know exactly what you're looking for. Bear in mind that this is the official pizza in Senator Obama's home neighborhood.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/mwy_photos/Ginospicgraf.gif

 

[FurryFury]

I knew he was my candidate!

 

[Marquis]

Thanks for taking the time to write this out. Not sure there has been much "progression"; your descriptions sound pretty much like my impressions from the last round.

I guessed that from the reaction videos posted here. It's unbelievable how different watching this debate has made me feel, I wonder what % of voters are influenced by media presentations like this.

I see Obama as confident and sincere, just as you say. Eloquent, intelligent, gracious, unflappable. Dignity personified.

I completely agree. He comes off like he really expects to win the election, which I admire. There's nothing whiny or desperate or otherwise off-putting about his presentation. The first debate I watched included a lot of candidates that are no longer cluttering up the discussion. In such an intimate discussion (they were allowed to question each other by the way) Obama's dominance over the other candidates was awe inspiring.

The crowd was specifically asked not to have any applause or sound of any kind until the end. They chuckled at a few of Obama's funnier comments and broke out into a brief cheer at once point. There was just no contest here. I like to consider myself a person who looks at things from a broad perspective, but it's really hard for me not to look at this guy and think "I want him to be my President"

Interestingly enough, someone had to be removed because he began shouting what sounded like a protest on "race based questions". I have no idea what the deal was with that, but it did make me think about what an issue Obama's race could be for him if he was elected president. Race is an issue that always seems to bring the worst out in people. It is of course not a reason to not support him, but I did think about the likelihood of him being assassinated and what that would mean for the country.

In my view, Hillary comes off better when she's not defensive and borderline threatening. She's really far more effective when she sticks to calm, deliberate, and knowledgeable. Last time, she was not only combative but really insulting and offensive as well. At one point she practically shrieked, "Chaaaaaaange? You want chaaaaaaange? A woman for president, now THAT would be change!" --- Totally ignoring the fact that she was sitting next to an Hispanic (Richardson) and African American.

Hillary seems to be losing her shit, I don't know how else to say it. I feel like I can't understand the reason for her insecurity, but as usual in circumstances like this, I can't help but assume she knows something I don't know. Something she doesn't want me to know, like Obama might actually be a better President.

Whether the insecurity she's projecting is valid or not, it's not something that inspires me with confidence in the future leader of the free world.

Edwards seriously annoys me, but I'm not exactly sure why. Maybe it's a guy with a $400 haircut incessantly talking about his humble background. Hard to say. In any case, if he's talking about being more "electable", he's on awfully thin ice, I'd say.

I find him annoying too. Edwards seems to be going for the vote of the average joe. The kinda guy who might not want Roe v Wade overturned, but might not be ready to see a woman or a minority in the white house either. My guess is talking in simpler terms is part of this strategy but it comes off as patronizing to me. His whole shtick seems to be like a liberal Bush thing.

I hope the country is as over the anti-intellectualism as they are over the rest of the right way of doing things.

As for your last line - ha, ha! Fuckin' Florida. I've got a buddy who says that, every damn time Bush comes up in conversation. "Fuckin' Florida. Jesus Christ."

Yeah, this close to an election, I can't even talk about it.

 

[Marquis]

I've stated earlier in this thread that my previous preference for Senator Clinton has evaporated in favor of Senator Obama. That said, I found this article to be both illuminating and provocative. Unfortunately, I doubt if the mainstream media will pick up the story.

The Diebold Effect: Hillary's Votes Higher from Diebold Machines Even Controlling for Demographics.

I have also said that I take the Clinton campaign's tactics as being indicative of the style of governance that she would follow if put into office. No thank you.

Ha ha, I think this could possibly be made news-friendly. Take out the abstruse statistical references and it's not a hard concept to understand. I do hope they look into this.

 

[midwestyankee]

Ha ha, I think this could possibly be made news-friendly. Take out the abstruse statistical references and it's not a hard concept to understand. I do hope they look into this.

I agree that it could be made news friendly with a little editing, but the fact is that New Hampshire is old news and the mainstream media just wont' get into this kind of story unless it grows legs as part of a wider pattern that becomes fairly easily discernible.

At present, the newsies are mostly in Nevada prepping to report on the caucuses there Saturday. And, since Obama won the endorsement of the very large and significantly Hispanic Culinary Workers Union, the Clinton camp has started doing what it does best in a campaign: get surrogates to set up roadblocks for their opponents. In this instance, the teachers' union, which endorses Senator Clinton, has filed a lawsuit to stop a caucusing mechanism that was designed by the state and national Democratic parties to facilitat voting by casino workers, many of whom are in the Culinary Workers union.

So, with that background, take a gander at how gracefully and honorably our former President discusses the lawsuit when pressed about it:

Bill Clinton shows his colors - hint: he's red under the collar.

 

[midwestyankee]

For anyone who has the time and inclination to get better acquainted with Senator Obama (and Senator Clinton as well), there is an excellent opportunity online. Senator Obama sat down with the Reno Gazette Journal this week to discuss the issues of the campaign and the paper has put all 49 minutes of the discussion on their website. It appears that Senator Clinton did the same thing and a similar video of her interview is also available from the same page.

Obama interview - 49 minutes long