Gay sex mixed with group sex?

[sirhugs]

I think most people know what the definition of non erotic is, only a fool would put something erotic in a non erotic section - a subcategory of erotica just like fetish/kink subcategories. FWIW, IMO Non erotic should be a category of its own just like Erotica is

is a erotic?

 

[SmilingLez]

is a erotic?

In a story between two consenting adults, yes it can be. Minors HELL NO!!!

 

[sirhugs]

In a story between two consenting adults, yes it can be. Minors HELL NO!!!

So you are suggesing that a Non-Erotic category story ought not include even a kiss?

 

[SmilingLez]

So you are suggesing that a Non-Erotic category story ought not include even a kiss?

Don't know where you got that assumption from.

Any story can include a kiss if both parties consent providing both parties are of legal age.

 

[sirhugs]

Don't know where you got that assumption from.

Any story can include a kiss if both parties consent providing both parties are of legal age.

I gess I did not make my point clear.
I was not refering to submission gudelines.
What I was suggesting is that if a kiss is erotic, it runs the riskof offending (at least some) Non-erotic category affecionados, and thus is risky, just like posting in any category.

 

[Katie_Mae]

For me, I'd expect group sex to contain any number of FF/MM/MF activities. That's kinda what separates group sex to, say, a gangbang.

I did put MM in a gangbang though. MMMMMMMMMMF and I just slipped some M on M action in there. Nothing bad happened. It's not against the rules. No punishment, no repercussions, no trolls broke into my home and cut off my fingers. I walked down the street, no one whispered, "That's Katie-Mae, she once slipped the fictitious penis of a man into another man's fictitious arsehole, instead of the vagina of the woman he was meant to be fucking!" Though, admittedly, Katie-Mae isn't actually my RL name.

Or, more to the point of what you probably mean by punishment and repercussions, no one complained in a comment.

And, if they do, so what? If a reader doesn't want to read what I write then she can go read something else. And, that's really the point of Lit, isn't it?

It's a huge place. You can write whatever you want (provided it's within the rules) and share it for whatever reason you want, and someone will read and enjoy it. As a reader, whatever you kink, there's probably a story about that.

If you want to read a story about fucking a Christmas tree? There's a story for you. Magical panties which mean a person can fuck you from a vast distance? Yup, there's a story for you too. Want to imagine sentient worms which crawl up your vagina and impregnate you? Ew. But, yeah, you guessed it. Even that.

Now, writers are here for different reasons. Some people are here to become or prove they are better than paid professionals. Whatever that means. Some are here to test out story ideas for publishing for real (eg for money) and so forth. But, for most of us, we're hobbyists who are here for enjoyment and not monetary gain. For most of us, posting whatever the hell we want, however and whenever we want, is just fine. Provided, of course, it's within the rules.

If you write under a pseudonym, don't do anything illegal, and don't reveal your identity to anyone RL, there's really very little punishment you can suffer.

Take this story for example: https://www.literotica.com/s/raped-online

I had an unfinished first draft languishing in my files. Came across it, looked at it, decided I couldn't be bothered finishing it, but thought someone might find some of the concepts interesting. So I checked it met the rules, slapped a hurried ending on it and posted it as-is. Glorious typos and all. If any story deserves one stars, it's that one. It sat at about 4.7 for most of its life, currently at 4.66. Now, let me tell you, this is not a 4 star story. Go one-vote it if you wish, I'm sure it deserves it.

But the thing is, it's got no RL sex in it. It's virtual. It's a non-con story heavy on the non-con kink, but features a woman who's fully in control of the situation and holds all the power. It ends with the guys being arrested. It's a plot that I don't think really appeals to any sub-set of non-con. It's got a terrible info dump, it's full of typos, it doesn't even pretend to be anything decent.

This is the story I've gotten the biggest "punishment" for, as far as you can be punished on lit. One person said I shouldn't have posted it here because it didn't meet their reasons for posting on lit (which are different to mine) and another placed a false report accusing the story of breaking the TOS. As the story doesn't go against the TOS, nothing happened, the story was never pulled, and if that person hadn't bragged that they were going to get my story taken down, I'd have no idea it was even reported.

So yeah. Realistically, the worst thing that can happen is someone can report your story for containing gay content, whereby the site will ignore their report as MM content is totally allowed.

Now, if I was here to build a paying audience or prove I was some amazing writer better than anyone, I'd never have posted that story because it wouldn't have aligned with those goals.

At the end of the day, what your goals and reasons for posting here will determine if posting something aligns with those goals.

And, I probably should have mentioned this first, but most of this post is rather redundant, as you've already written it (good for you) but I wrote it anyway, because I often see posts here asking what content "should" be posted (when it's within the rules) or what reasons a writer may or may not post a story for, and some bizarre form of elitism where people go round telling people what or why they shouldn't post on this hobby smut site

In my time at the AH I've seen people say:
- You should never wish your readers "happy holidays" because it betrays weakness
- If you're just here to have fun, you shouldn't be here posting stories
- If there's no sex in the first X (eg, first chapter, first 100k words etc) no one will read your stories
- If, after posting your story, you think of a good tag you should have used to help future readers find your story, then you should never have posted your story in the first place and are clearly not ready to face the judgement of your readers.
- If you're not better than, or striving to be better than paid professionals, you shouldn't post at lit
- no one will read your story if it doesn't have enough sex
- no one will read your story if it has too much sex
- no one will read your story if it's too short
- no one will read your story if it's too long

I've actually never seen a story here no one has read. Even the vagina worm one.

 

[sirhugs]

For me, I'd expect group sex to contain any number of FF/MM/MF activities. That's kinda what separates group sex to, say, a gangbang.

I did put MM in a gangbang though. MMMMMMMMMMF and I just slipped some M on M action in there. Nothing bad happened. It's not against the rules. No punishment, no repercussions, no trolls broke into my home and cut off my fingers. I walked down the street, no one whispered, "That's Katie-Mae, she once slipped the fictitious penis of a man into another man's fictitious arsehole, instead of the vagina of the woman he was meant to be fucking!" Though, admittedly, Katie-Mae isn't actually my RL name.

Or, more to the point of what you probably mean by punishment and repercussions, no one complained in a comment.

And, if they do, so what? If a reader doesn't want to read what I write then she can go read something else. And, that's really the point of Lit, isn't it?

It's a huge place. You can write whatever you want (provided it's within the rules) and share it for whatever reason you want, and someone will read and enjoy it. As a reader, whatever you kink, there's probably a story about that.

If you want to read a story about fucking a Christmas tree? There's a story for you. Magical panties which mean a person can fuck you from a vast distance? Yup, there's a story for you too. Want to imagine sentient worms which crawl up your vagina and impregnate you? Ew. But, yeah, you guessed it. Even that.

Now, writers are here for different reasons. Some people are here to become or prove they are better than paid professionals. Whatever that means. Some are here to test out story ideas for publishing for real (eg for money) and so forth. But, for most of us, we're hobbyists who are here for enjoyment and not monetary gain. For most of us, posting whatever the hell we want, however and whenever we want, is just fine. Provided, of course, it's within the rules.

If you write under a pseudonym, don't do anything illegal, and don't reveal your identity to anyone RL, there's really very little punishment you can suffer.

Take this story for example: https://www.literotica.com/s/raped-online

I had an unfinished first draft languishing in my files. Came across it, looked at it, decided I couldn't be bothered finishing it, but thought someone might find some of the concepts interesting. So I checked it met the rules, slapped a hurried ending on it and posted it as-is. Glorious typos and all. If any story deserves one stars, it's that one. It sat at about 4.7 for most of its life, currently at 4.66. Now, let me tell you, this is not a 4 star story. Go one-vote it if you wish, I'm sure it deserves it.

But the thing is, it's got no RL sex in it. It's virtual. It's a non-con story heavy on the non-con kink, but features a woman who's fully in control of the situation and holds all the power. It ends with the guys being arrested. It's a plot that I don't think really appeals to any sub-set of non-con. It's got a terrible info dump, it's full of typos, it doesn't even pretend to be anything decent.

This is the story I've gotten the biggest "punishment" for, as far as you can be punished on lit. One person said I shouldn't have posted it here because it didn't meet their reasons for posting on lit (which are different to mine) and another placed a false report accusing the story of breaking the TOS. As the story doesn't go against the TOS, nothing happened, the story was never pulled, and if that person hadn't bragged that they were going to get my story taken down, I'd have no idea it was even reported.

So yeah. Realistically, the worst thing that can happen is someone can report your story for containing gay content, whereby the site will ignore their report as MM content is totally allowed.

Now, if I was here to build a paying audience or prove I was some amazing writer better than anyone, I'd never have posted that story because it wouldn't have aligned with those goals.

At the end of the day, what your goals and reasons for posting here will determine if posting something aligns with those goals.

And, I probably should have mentioned this first, but most of this post is rather redundant, as you've already written it (good for you) but I wrote it anyway, because I often see posts here asking what content "should" be posted (when it's within the rules) or what reasons a writer may or may not post a story for, and some bizarre form of elitism where people go round telling people what or why they shouldn't post on this hobby smut site

In my time at the AH I've seen people say:
- You should never wish your readers "happy holidays" because it betrays weakness
- If you're just here to have fun, you shouldn't be here posting stories
- If there's no sex in the first X (eg, first chapter, first 100k words etc) no one will read your stories
- If, after posting your story, you think of a good tag you should have used to help future readers find your story, then you should never have posted your story in the first place and are clearly not ready to face the judgement of your readers.
- If you're not better than, or striving to be better than paid professionals, you shouldn't post at lit
- no one will read your story if it doesn't have enough sex
- no one will read your story if it has too much sex
- no one will read your story if it's too short
- no one will read your story if it's too long

I've actually never seen a story here no one has read. Even the vagina worm one.

You make good points.

I would think that the depth and breadth of my submissions demonstrates that I do write what I want, and I do realize that I can't please everybody all the time.

but any writer, unless they write only to put a copy of their work in the drawer (or the File Explorer equivalent) has to have some reegard for the potential audience.

Publishing a story which almost every reader hates is not productive.
Posting in the "wrong category" is one way to cause this to happen.
By "wrong category", I am referring to the predicted expectations and reactionsof the regular readers of that category. That Is what I was looking for feedback on.
Though I have posted several Group Sex stories, not enough to be confudent that i know that group's predicted expectations and reactions. that's why i started this thread. Because there are a lot of AH contributors wth experiencce and wisdom that i respect If they an help me avoid wHat I would consider a mistake, I would be very appreciative. My experience is that people here are generally helpful.

I mean, who wouldn't want to know what Emily Miller, or Simon Doom, or Penny Thompson, or Lovecraft68, KumquatQueen, Notwise NuclearFairy, or many others, thinks?

By "punished", I was refering to situations where not only a specific story, but perhaps an entire back catalogue, gets flooded with low scores and hateful comments, not reflecting honest assessments of the work, but because it was not the story that the readers expected to read.

It's one thing to submit a story whch you know is risky or "out there". Those, you expect a wide range of (often negative) reactions, and laugh at them. Totally another sort of blow to the ego to submit something you think is wellwritten, with character development, realistic dialogue, a plausible (for Lit) plot, and hot sex, and get clobbered. And unlike LW, in Group Sex, I get very few comments of any sort, so if the rating tanks, I have no idea what to do better next time.

I guess maybe that I'm just getting too old for that sort of sh*t.

 

[Katie_Mae]

but any writer, unless they write only to put a copy of their work in the drawer (or the File Explorer equivalent) has to have some reegard for the potential audience.

Yes, I agree you do need regard for a potential audience. This is why I categorise, tag, content warn etc where relevant. Consent is important, and I'd not want for a reader to stumble on my work unaware of what I write and then feel uncomfortable or harmed because it contained dark themes etc.

My post was meant to be a "do what you wanna do be what you wanna be yeaaaaah" post. Not a "don't ask for advice" post.

(and, to edit, I should add that a desire for high scores or a desire to receive feedback or improve writing etc is what I'd consider a "goal." Asking advice on how to achieve your goal/s is a good thing. But, without knowing this, it's hard to comment if an action does or does not meet that goal. )

 

[SmilingLez]

I gess I did not make my point clear.
I was not refering to submission gudelines.
What I was suggesting is that if a kiss is erotic, it runs the riskof offending (at least some) Non-erotic category affecionados, and thus is risky, just like posting in any category.

I've read plenty of non erotic stories where a kiss is quite erotic. Most of the mainstream romance authors fall into that category. You know the trashy dime store novels and money-wise they are not suffering

 

[sirhugs]

I've read plenty of non erotic stories where a kiss is quite erotic. Most of the mainstream romance authors fall into that category. You know the trashy dime store novels and money-wise they are not suffering

Which raises the question "are Lit Non-erotic category readers like readers of trashy dime store novels?"
or, switching it around,
"Do disappointed and disapproving readers of trashy dime store novels who think a writer has 'broken the covenant' of unstated and inconsistent expectations haunt those writers on forums such as Goodreads, trolling them and arbitrarily down vote all their titles, even the ones they haven't read?"

 

[richfun]

I'm reminded of As Good as It Gets. The part where Jack Nicholson says, "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."

As to me, I write gay male sex, by imagining they are women, only they have cocks, and fewer brains.

And their brains not always in the right place. And I speak as one.

 

[ElectricBlue]

And unlike LW, in Group Sex, I get very few comments of any sort, so if the rating tanks, I have no idea what to do better next time.

That's not your story, that's the category. I reckon Group is the least responsive category of all - the readers vote in a much lower proportion compared to other categories, and they don't comment. It's a dead zone category, in terms of an author knowing how their story might be travelling.

 

[wet_ann]

I am currently working an a group sex heavy series and realized via this thread that I hadn't really planned out any explicit MM action in the group sex scenes...have had some mutual masturbation amongst male characters with the FMC at the center, hints of one-on-one gay activities occurring nearby, but I suppose finding it challenging to work into the series when the FMC is so pivotal in each group sex scene. Even if I do end up writing specific gay sex scenes, so far everything is from the perspective of the FMC, so I feel the scene would be limited and I wonder how much true value would be added. This thread has given me much to ponder, so will see how the rest of the chapters I have planned pan out regarding this topic...maybe a POV switch up

 

[sirhugs]

Yes, I agree you do need regard for a potential audience. This is why I categorise, tag, content warn etc where relevant. Consent is important, and I'd not want for a reader to stumble on my work unaware of what I write and then feel uncomfortable or harmed because it contained dark themes etc.

My post was meant to be a "do what you wanna do be what you wanna be yeaaaaah" post. Not a "don't ask for advice" post.

(and, to edit, I should add that a desire for high scores or a desire to receive feedback or improve writing etc is what I'd consider a "goal." Asking advice on how to achieve your goal/s is a good thing. But, without knowing this, it's hard to comment if an action does or does not meet that goal. )

Alas, sometimes too much in the way of warnings ruins the plot twist. Here, I’m thinking of my heavily commented upon story Not Another Loving Wives Tale. The twist that the wife had sex with a tentacle monster rather than hubby's best friend got praise from those who "got it", but I forgot that most LW readers don't have a sense of humour. The description line did warn that the story was "a little different", and the "Not" in the title was another subtle hint, tags included “surprise ending”, “twisted” and “imagination”. but still I got a lot of "wrong category" complaints on top of the usual BTB ones.

Maybe I ought to have posted in in Humour & Satire*, but then I probably would have gotten complaints that it "wasn't funny enough." It's still one of my personal favourite efforts, and accomplished my goals, sort of, and added another "plus" in that it made me comfortable writing a TM story, and my subsequent TM stories have done very well. So much so that I have the confidence to be attempting an anthro story.

In addition, tags have always been a mystery to me. I generally don’t pay attention to those selected by other writers when I pick something to read, and struggle to figure out which ten words or phrases summarize stories which increasingly are long and complex. Also have the same problem though with my shorter efforts. I recall being very uncertain about picking tags that described The Black Cloud, a very personal romantic but smutty attempt to wrestle with the demons of depression combined with lust for my therapist. Ended up with a combination of tags about the sex acts involved and generic plot element tags lie “therapist” and “shrink”. That story did not get flamed, but it never found its audience either. Was probably also in the wrong category, but Erotic Couplings seemed better than sledgehammering it into any specific kink category. The sequel, with similar tags, is one of my highest rated, but still almost no comments. It might have benefitted by being in Anal, was at once longer and more specific.

So, life remains a learning process. Or, as I like to say ”I have answers. I have questions. Sometimes, they match.”


*NOT what the negative nellys wanted. They thought it belonged in Non-Human. That's what i mean by "ruins the plot twist".

 

[sirhugs]

That's not your story, that's the category. I reckon Group is the least responsive category of all - the readers vote in a much lower proportion compared to other categories, and they don't comment. It's a dead zone category, in terms of an author knowing how their story might be travelling.

I recognize that. but where else do you put a story too short to be in Novels and Novellas involving two female characers and six male characters sharing a variety of sex acts?

Though two of them are related and even mom/son, they never have sex, so Taboo/Incest wasn't even an option.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I recognize that. but where else do you put a story too short to be in Novels and Novellas involving two female characers and six male characters sharing a variety of sex acts?

Though two of them are related and even mom/son, they never have sex, so Taboo/Incest wasn't even an option.

Caught by your own kinks, then .

 

[sirhugs]

Caught by your own kinks, then .

Well, I had to leave a few out. You'd think in a poolside story, I might have remembered to include watersports of the kinky sort. As it is, it is almost wall to wall sex.

Though I can't claim full solo credit for all the kinks. The stories grew out of a conversation with @KindredFlame. The choices ultimately were mine, but she started me down a path. In my mind, she was the FMC (though the bios are not exactly identical).

 

[SmilingLez]

Which raises the question "are Lit Non-erotic category readers like readers of trashy dime store novels?"
or, switching it around,
"Do disappointed and disapproving readers of trashy dime store novels who think a writer has 'broken the covenant' of unstated and inconsistent expectations haunt those writers on forums such as Goodreads, trolling them and arbitrarily down vote all their titles, even the ones they haven't read?"

I'm sure some do and some don't. People are strange that way, you can't predict what they do. I've never seen such negative comments on Goodreads.

I enjoy the non-erotic section. If a story is written well, to me, it does not have to be sexually explicit.

I'm also sure there are more frenemies here than most people realize. It wouldn't surprise me if when come contest/challenge time, people who are cozy in the forum vote each other's story down at least once (someone exposed how to leave multiple one bombs in a previous thread) having not read the story. I've never seen people obsessed with ratings as they are here.

Again my opinion and YMMV

 

[sirhugs]

I'm sure some do and some don't. People are strange that way, you can't predict what they do. I've never seen such negative comments on Goodreads.

I enjoy the non-erotic section. If a story is written well, to me, it does not have to be sexually explicit.

I'm also sure there are more frenemies here than most people realize. It wouldn't surprise me if when come contest/challenge time, people who are cozy in the forum vote each other's story down at least once (someone exposed how to leave multiple one bombs in a previous thread) having not read the story. I've never seen people obsessed with ratings as they are here.

Again my opinion and YMMV

always good to share experiences and viewpoints