George Bush is awesome!

[Blarneystoned]

Insanity is the key to reality

Sadly Sara there is little documented about the disorders or the great ones and their crosses they beared....many of them hid it so that they would appear "normal" and not have their work biased and stereotyped by the masses.

I sometimes think medicine stabs itself in the foot because we try and categorize and diagnose everyone and everything instead of trying to help and understand everyone.

As human beings we all have our mad moments...its how we cope...
some like to call them vices...crutches that help us function...we dont admit them to the world because then they label us weak...

Personally I think we can gain more my embracing our weaknesses and identifying them when they are present then moving on past them....we may find that we have them as protections or signs sent to help us survive

Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Re: Insanity is the key to reality

Sadly Sara there is little documented about the disorders or the great ones and their crosses they beared....

Personally I think we can gain more my embracing our weaknesses and identifying them when they are present then moving on past them...

Jayzussfuck, you really are a load of blarney. I just noted a book that lays out very clearly why Byron would be diagnosed bi-polar. I suggest you take a look at the thread on depression. It is not something to "embrace" the way you so naively put it. It is also not something to "move on" from, but to learn to live with, even to keep from killing one. Depression can cripple and kill, it does not help one survive.

Your comments are exactly what is wrong with the way society views mental illness, plus your romanticized and ignorant views on genius. Given your record for discussion on this board I will not reply more, but I had to "speak up for bastards".

Perdita

 

[Guest]

Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

These "syndromes" are not personality flaws; they cannot be corrected by taking a Sylvan reading course, and they won't magically disappear when my children grow up.

The symptoms cause problems with authority and relationships, they affect work skills and study habits - it doesn't matter how brilliant they are.

These are serious issues that will affect the quality of their entire lives.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Re: Re: The gifted ones

Leave my family out of this!

(One small point on this, dear LC. Ritalin and its derivatives can do nothing to help in this situation. Attention Deficit is something else entirely!)

Yeah, I know. I picked Ritalin because it seemed to me the most worthless drug which has been given the most incorrectly. Too many normal kids have been given the drug over those who genuinely need it in order to focus.

And to Perdita, you are right. My best friend was a sufferer of manic depression until his untimely end. And many of my friends in high school and college had one type or another of near suicide attempt. Depression does kill.

Also to Blarney, I'm assuming that when you say "moving past weakness" you are really saying learning how to cope with being much more twisted and different than everyone else and trying desperately to get some good out of it through some sort of pursuit. If that's what you meant, then you do make a good point and your wording is just off. If not, well then you're probably too disgustingly normal to understand.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

The symptoms cause problems with authority and relationships, they affect work skills and study habits - it doesn't matter how brilliant they are.

I've always thought it was authority that had a problem with them. As far as relationships go...yes, they do. Often that's why they become brilliant. If you're an introvert and there's no avenue for extroversion, you're going to get really good at introversion.

Watch yourself though, while treatment and support are sometimes neccessary (the latter more so and more often than the former), one must remember that madness can be a blessing. Even if its a blessing marked with a cloud of pain and suffering. After all, you can't tell me Giger or Francis Bacon had a cheerio life or were all right in the head. Sometimes madness does set us free. The only thing to watch is when it becomes life threatening or fatal like Cobain, Poe, Hemmingway or Waters.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Yeah I am saying move past your weaknesses

We all have them...there is no normal and we are all plagued with various ails and difficulties...no gene pool is perfect and we dont get too pick our families or circumstances...

You can misinterpret me and not get my point...but that was my point

I survived cancer at a very young age through 4 years of chemo and radiation...all my life people around me have died...good friends...in all reality it wasnt me that got through it God just thought maybe I could help a few more on earth before I moved on...that is what I do and that is why Im still kicking and I still try and laugh every day just for fun...

My views may be a bit extreme but at least I am entertaining and cause debates and this thread continues to move...

With regards to dyslexia and the new ADH thing...I think knowing yourself and your how you work will do more than most doctors can....I know my father is dyslexic...and I probably am too...but I dont worry about it...I am able to see the world differently and more sharp in most circumstances..

Mental illness is difficult...it is difficult in many ways...the drugs have worse side effects than the illness...it is difficult and expensive to get qualified people who can diagnose and treat them properly...and we still dont know enough yet about the brain to really fix it....

People have lived for eons with these problems.....with a little hope and a lot of patience...we will too

Perdita....I try and separate politics from life issues..politics is only a temporary issue ..***** moves on ...

Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

Watch yourself though, while treatment and support are sometimes neccessary (the latter more so and more often than the former), one must remember that madness can be a blessing. Even if its a blessing marked with a cloud of pain and suffering. After all, you can't tell me Giger or Francis Bacon had a cheerio life or were all right in the head. Sometimes madness does set us free. The only thing to watch is when it becomes life threatening or fatal like Cobain, Poe, Hemmingway or Waters.

We do see a terrific child psych (he was part of Menninger's in Kansas). Our children need to have enough "normalcy" so they can function to get through school.

We give them all we can; we have thousands of books, they have their own computers, they share a good microscope and a really good telescope, they have access to every type of art supply we can find.

We encourage social issues but don't push; we know with experience they will learn. We schedule occupational therapy for them on the everyday things most people take for granted. It also helps that they are tracked into classes with children who are more like they are.

And we guide them into areas where we know they can be successful (piano, karate, swimming - all solo activities, really).

Most people wouldn't understand the horror of team soccer for afflicted kids.

Example: Ball is kicked to child, child is busy comparing types of grass and mentally cataloging insect species, child misses ball, team is upset . . .

We tried it once.

 

[Guest]

Re: Yeah I am saying move past your weaknesses

With regards to dyslexia and the new ADH thing...I think knowing yourself and your how you work will do more than most doctors can....I know my father is dyslexic...and I probably am too...but I dont worry about it...I am able to see the world differently and more sharp in most circumstances..

Mental illness is difficult...it is difficult in many ways...the drugs have worse side effects than the illness...it is difficult and expensive to get qualified people who can diagnose and treat them properly...and we still dont know enough yet about the brain to really fix it....Blarneystoned

OK. Last post from me.

(You are aware, aren't you, that when people leave a thread and stop posting with you it isn't because you've made your point? They just become so disgusted with beating their head against a wall they have to leave. Anyway -)

Dyslexia, ADD/ADHD (neither is new, by the way), Asperger's, Tourette's, Autism, etc. are not mental illnesses.

Pervasive developmental disorders - PDD - they are types of learning disabilities.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Well you are doing great things

I have a nurse friend and her brother is autistic. He is now in his 20s...he lives with her...walks to work and saves his money...they other day he handed her a jar of quarters and said she could keep them...that he really doesnt like the way they feel in his hand...there was over 100$ in the jar.

He works at a grocery store and has for years ..she says he has more money than she does..because he never spends it and lives with her..she says she understands him better than her parents do and laughs at the little things.

He came home from work and said someone called him a dildo. He asked her what that was and she told him it was a cookie. Which I think is hilarious and she did too. But she says there is only so much he can handle at one time.


There is hope and there are more programs now than there were a decade ago...the eternal child is a blessing...you are doing the best you can and that is all that is asked of us...

Working with children keeps you childlike and I think in the big scheme of things no matter how old we get we are all children with dream and desires ..

Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Re: Yeah I am saying move past your weaknesses

People have lived for eons with these problems.....with a little hope and a lot of patience...we will too

That is ignorant. I do not credit hope and patience for my being alive and as well as I can be at the moment. I know from research and experience it is not hope and patience that most helped hundreds of others with mental illness. Re. my exit from this topic, see Sarahh's post above.

Perdita

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

We do see a terrific child psych (he was part of Menninger's in Kansas). Our children need to have enough "normalcy" so they can function to get through school.

I'm sorry, but I ROTFL. Not because of any undue criticisms of your kids or your handling of them but because school is a place where your children will be scarred. If they are not mr. alpha male asshole beat you up for your lunch money or polly princess going to be a cum whore when I grow up and nothing else then they will be turned into dysfunctional freaks. It's the horror of parenthood and adolesence.

Frankly, normality is something you should foster out of your brilliant children and I support heartily all the introverted activities you are engrossing them in. If you have a child who is different, try and protect him/her but don't give them everyone else's normality. Remember the chaos and horror in "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" when people with mild insanities are forced to become normal in the everyone else sense or else? Your children will not be society "normal" but they may just be mad geniuses if you work it right. Anyway good luck.

Blarney, you cuckoo little nut...no, wait, make that utterly sane guy. There is a difference between madness and societally acceptable deviant behavior. Your story about cancer is nifty, but not nearly the same. Until you've given a good friend the hiemlich to dislodge the bottle of pills they just swallowed or looked at your best friend coming to school with a star cut in the back of his hand or fear everyday that someday someone is going to report you to a psychologist and then you'll be locked away forever, then I doubt you'll really understand the edge of comfortable.

I do agree with your point that that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger but sometimes things do threaten to kill us and we do need a helping hand (mostly in the form of comfort and friends). Also I agree with part of what you say. I think drugs are a last resort, but still a possible resort. All other options should be exhausted first. Personally, I despise psychologists, but I recognize that sometimes things do get that bad, so... It's all a matter of balance. Frankly I want to know that if I ever go over the edge that someone will stop me and take me in or slap me out of it.

As for your point, I was trying to determine your sanity. You are sane. Dangerously coldly sane and normal. Like Nurse Ratched.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

I'm sorry, but I ROTFL. Not because of any undue criticisms of your kids or your handling of them but because school is a place where your children will be scarred. If they are not mr. alpha male asshole beat you up for your lunch money or polly princess going to be a cum whore when I grow up and nothing else then they will be turned into dysfunctional freaks. It's the horror of parenthood and adolesence.

Frankly, normality is something you should foster out of your brilliant children and I support heartily all the introverted activities you are engrossing them in. If you have a child who is different, try and protect him/her but don't give them everyone else's normality. Remember the chaos and horror in "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" when people with mild insanities are forced to become normal in the everyone else sense or else? Your children will not be society "normal" but they may just be mad geniuses if you work it right. Anyway good luck.

You are completely correct, LC.

But we aren't attempting to "correct" their behavior, just give them enough skills so they can survive.

School is a scary place for quirky smart kids.

(edited to add - Many gifted children with Asperger's do become depressed, hence the psych.)

 

[Blarneystoned]

Seeing things the way you want

is a difficult task. I didnt say they were mental illnesses...I left a paragraph between them...I said it was hard to find good clinicians for the illness and the drugs had terrible side effects...

Perdita I am sorry you are depressed...I will look into Byron. I think you are mixing up politics and medicine and getting upset just because we see things politically different.

I do not expect to change how people vote , nor do I expect you to change my views. This conversation just touched has gone into some different topics and I was just relaying personal experiences.

Personally I hope we find help for everything in the future. I hope we come up with better medicines and fewer side effects, I hope we come up with more understanding and innovations that will advance us into the future.

I try to look for the positives in life and if you think there are none then I am sorry.

My example above was to show that autistics can achieve self sufficiency and blend into life..with a child like outlook that puzzles many adults.

Blarneystoned

 

[cloudy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

You are completely correct, LC.

But we aren't attempting to "correct" their behavior, just give them enough skills so they can survive.

School is a scary place for quirky smart kids.

(edited to add - Many gifted children with Asperger's do become depressed, hence the psych.)

Just adding my voice of support to you, SSSarahh.

I have adult ADD, and one of my children has ADHD. I've been there, I'm still there, and I guess I always will be.

My consolation is that most people that have this disorder are extremely bright.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

You are completely correct, LC.

But we aren't attempting to "correct" their behavior, just give them enough skills so they can survive.

School is a scary place for quirky smart kids.

(edited to add - Many gifted children with Asperger's do become depressed, hence the psych.)

I'll toast to that. And yes, see quotes above about hiemliching an overdosing friend and watching my best friend try to hide the red star he cut into the back of his hand. School is a shitty world but if they survive it, they'll be the geniuses of tomorrow. Again, good luck from someone who knows exactly which tightrope your children are walking.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Seeing things the way you want

is a difficult task. I didnt say they were mental illnesses...I left a paragraph between them...I said it was hard to find good clinicians for the illness and the drugs had terrible side effects...

Perdita I am sorry you are depressed...I will look into Byron. I think you are mixing up politics and medicine and getting upset just because we see things politically different.

I do not expect to change how people vote , nor do I expect you to change my views. This conversation just touched has gone into some different topics and I was just relaying personal experiences.

Personally I hope we find help for everything in the future. I hope we come up with better medicines and fewer side effects, I hope we come up with more understanding and innovations that will advance us into the future.

I try to look for the positives in life and if you think there are none then I am sorry.

My example above was to show that autistics can achieve self sufficiency and blend into life..with a child like outlook that puzzles many adults.

Blarneystoned

Blarney, sometimes you do yourself credit. And to think it only took us 10 pages and a topic change to reach this point. A decent speech, no insults, fairly logical progression, etc... A kudos to you man for finally doing what I askedso long ago and presenting something logically, backing yourself up, and responding shrewdly.

You deserve this one man.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Heimlich

I did the heimlich on my niece when she got a cheeseburger stuck in her throat as a 2 year old.

I have narcanned people out of overdoses. I was also on the seen of a young girl that tried to commit suicide...with a bottle of pills...haha..unforunately the were a bottle of antibiotics and all she probably got was a killer yeast infection. I had a friend in homeroom that hung himself, and an EMT I knew got stressed out and jumped in front of a train. I have transported people that slit their wrists and seen more than the average bear. That is the hardest thing about growing up and carrying on.

Yet we do what we can

Blarneystoned

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Heimlich

I did the heimlich on my niece when she got a cheeseburger stuck in her throat as a 2 year old.

I have narcanned people out of overdoses. I was also on the seen of a young girl that tried to commit suicide...with a bottle of pills...haha..unforunately the were a bottle of antibiotics and all she probably got was a killer yeast infection. I had a friend in homeroom that hung himself, and an EMT I knew got stressed out and jumped in front of a train. I have transported people that slit their wrists and seen more than the average bear. That is the hardest thing about growing up and carrying on.

Yet we do what we can

Blarneystoned

Haha? That's just sick. That's really fucking sick. I know you're a doctor and see weird shit every day, but as one who did that procedure to a good friend, that's really morbid humor. Maybe you can detach yourself enough from your vict...patients to not care about these things, but when it's someone you do care about, it's not fun it's jaw-dropping-cry-until-you-can-no-longer-see horror. And what's that dismissive comment at the end? Have you really become this detached and heartless? And if so, why do you still go to work as a doctor? You are one twisted sane fuck sometimes and I mean that earnestly.

EDITED TO ADD: Also as a doctor, I'm sure you realize that most any pill taken an entire bottle at a time will do serious damage to you and if swallowed will require a stomach pump.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Seeing things the way you want

Blarney, sometimes you do yourself credit. And to think it only took us 10 pages and a topic change to reach this point. A decent speech, no insults, fairly logical progression, etc... A kudos to you man for finally doing what I askedso long ago and presenting something logically, backing yourself up, and responding shrewdly.

You deserve this one man.

And then he fucked it up.

 

[Blarneystoned]

haha

actually stomach pumps are out of fashion..we make them eat charcoal and wait for them to puke it up. If we know what it was we can try and find a counter...other wise we just let em puke it up. We throw an Naso gastric tube in and suck out what we can..flood them with fluids and cross our fingers....lavage is used sometimes...but I think stomach pumps just werent getting enough toxin out for all the trouble.

Blarneystoned

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: haha

actually stomach pumps are out of fashion..we make them eat charcoal and wait for them to puke it up. If we know what it was we can try and find a counter...other wise we just let em puke it up. We throw an Naso gastric tube in and suck out what we can..flood them with fluids and cross our fingers....lavage is used sometimes...but I think stomach pumps just werent getting enough toxin out for all the trouble.

Blarneystoned

That's nice. I'm wrong about stomach pumps. But you're still a frightening (human being?). Yeah, we'll call you that for now. Swallowing pills is no joke. No laughing matter and shouldn't have been laughed at in your post and haha shouldn't have been the title of your rebuttal. As a friend of multiple near-suicides, I'm appalled at your lack of compassion, they likes of which is usually reserved for that broad world concept in suicide notes. Perhaps, in your shiny "God wants some people to die" world it's fine and dandy to be this way but right now I weep for your patients.

Honestly, words can not describe how chilling your laugh insert into your post was. You may have finally started grasping logic (oddly the moment we left politics behind us, hmmm), but as far as compassion or human feelings go...

 

[Blarneystoned]

Reading too much into posts

Judging people from posts is an invalid conclusion. It was good that you did the heimlich on your friend. Most people just stand by and panic. To heal in an emergency you must be detached or you cant think. My laugh was about the yeast infection, because most suicide attempts are a call out for help. I treat them and then send them to psych. I think people love to talk about saving lives but few have. It takes a toll on us all. Occasionally we let the negative people bring us down. But if you know yourself you dont worry about them.

I see know how newspapers have such a following. You can just make ten second judgements by how big the headline type setting is.

Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

Just adding my voice of support to you, SSSarahh.

I have adult ADD, and one of my children has ADHD. I've been there, I'm still there, and I guess I always will be.

My consolation is that most people that have this disorder are extremely bright.

Cloudy -

Our kid's psych said that people with these types of disorders tend to seek each other out.

(No wonder we get along so well!)

My hubby and I (both ADD - LOL) decided that it is very much like X-Men. We are attracted to each other, we get married, and then we have more of "our kind."

And then more and more people with our "affliction" get together, have more X-Men children - and so on and so on and so on.

Hell, soon we'll take over the world!

 

[cloudy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Blarney, I believe you're missing the point -

Cloudy -

Our kid's psych said that people with these types of disorders tend to seek each other out.

(No wonder we get along so well!)

My hubby and I (both ADD - LOL) decided that it is very much like X-Men. We are attracted to each other, we get married, and then we have more of "our kind."

And then more and more people with our "affliction" get together, have more X-Men children - and so on and so on and so on.

Hell, soon we'll take over the world!

X-Men Unite!!!

Probably the reason we seek each other out is because others with the same thing are the only ones that truly understand.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Re: Reading too much into posts

Judging people from posts is an invalid conclusion. It was good that you did the heimlich on your friend. Most people just stand by and panic. To heal in an emergency you must be detached or you cant think. My laugh was about the yeast infection, because most suicide attempts are a call out for help. I treat them and then send them to psych. I think people love to talk about saving lives but few have. It takes a toll on us all. Occasionally we let the negative people bring us down. But if you know yourself you dont worry about them.

I see know how newspapers have such a following. You can just make ten second judgements by how big the headline type setting is.

Blarneystoned

Headline sizes...okay, here I'll try to explain this in a calm manner. You laughed in the middle of a thread about suicides. You laughed about it "only causing yeast infection" not actually killing her. That is sick. Period. Detachment in crisis is key, but there is a time to turn the emotions back on.

You are right that I do not know you. Perhaps the real you is a real fun loving good guy most of the time. However, the you I've seen laughs in threads about suicide as if other people's deaths and sufferings is only so much brauhaha. That inserted laugh really scared the fuck out of me because it's the same sort of calloused "damn kids" brush aside that drive many of these kids to attempt these self-destructions.
"
Frankly I'd rather have empathy for these "negative people" than be one of the "positive people". You wanna know why? Because positive people are secretely sadists who get their merriment from preying on the "negative people". They are generally dumber and far less empathetic than the "negative people" and because they think death and pain and suffering is a cute little game that happens to other people. Maybe your fucking God smiles on your blessed little ass and therefore nothing will make you feel or care about anyone else, but that "positive peopleness" is just your heart corroding with sin.

Long live the "negative people" for only in them do we get truth.

P.S. Asshole.