George Bush is awesome!

[shereads]

I’ll probably regret posting this, but I’ll give it a try.

For my part, I have no trouble admitting that Saddam is evil and that the world is better without him in power—so far. My beef was that the cost of getting him out wasn’t and isn’t worth it, nor was it a wise strategically. The decision to go to war was made out of ignorance, arrogance, and incompetence by our leaders, and I would feel the same way no matter who’d been in office when the decision was made: GWB or Al Gore or Bill Clinton or Mother Theresa.

--I believe that by invading Iraq we have put the USA in far more peril than it was before the invasion. We’ve created thousands of new terrorists and millions of new enemies, which was the entire point of the 9/11 attack. The 9/11 attacks were designed precisely to provoke an overwhelming response by the USA, thus driving more Arabs into Osama’s camp. We played right into his hands and made 9/11 successful beyond his wildest dreams.

--Rather than creating a beacon of democracy and western-style enlightenment in the middle east, we've dangerously detablizied the entire region without regard to the consequences.

--As I said, there's no doubt that Saddam was an evil dictator who did awful things. But was it worth an invasion to remove him? No. Was a military invasion the best way to get him out of power? Probably not. If we were serious about helping oppressed people we’d have our army in Sudan right now, helping to save the millions of people who are dying there. If we were so serious about removing tyrants, we wouldn’t be rubbing up against Musharreff of Pakistan right now either, which still seems to be Al Qaeda’s most secure base of operations and is known to have nukes, Iraq wasn’t scary. Pakistan: now that’s scary. They hate the hell out of us since we invaded Iraq.

--I believe that we have practically no chance to instill any sort of democracy over there. I think this administration is just incredibly naïve (that’s a kinder word than willfully ignorant) about foreign cultures. This was clearly demonstarted in their foolish belief that the people would welcome us as liberators and transition smoothly into democracy in a matter of weeks. The “Ohio waiting to happen” myth.

--I believe that terrorism is a policing problem and not a military problem. We want to see it as a military problem because when all you’ve got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Our blundering has elevated Bin Ladin and Al Qaeda into heros in the Arab world, whereas before they were an embarrassment.

--I believe the decision to invade Iraq was probably about 30% politically driven. I think the whole “War on Terrorism” was politically motivated. (Do you really believe there will ever come a day when we can declare this war over? We’ve talked our way into a permanent state of warfare where any maniac with a bomb is raised to the level of a soveriegn power.) I believe that Bush thought it would be quick, painless, and make him look really good. As Rumsfeld told Clarke, we’re going into Iraq because that’s where the good targets are.

--I believe that even now the war is being conducted in a way that serves this administration’s political agenda and not the military requirements in the field. I think we need more troops over there to protect what we already have, but the DOD won’t send them because of the PR problem. It seems to me that the only rationale for the unreasonably hasty June 30th deadline is to earn bragging points for the November election. What other possible reason could there be? How do you establish a government, a national police force, and a military in 3 weeks? Are they serious?

--Finally I believe that the USA has tarnished its reputation, made incalculable numbers of enemies all around the world, and has squandered a lot of energy on a problem that never existed when we really needed to be applying ourselves somewhere else. Conventional war is obsolete, whether we like it or not, and the wars of the future will all be on the terrorism/guerilla model. We should have been applying ourselves to solving that and getting ready for the security challeneges of tomorrow.

In short, it's the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons and fought the wrong way. They really should have known better.

---dr.M.

You're 100% right, as you were a year ago when you predicted we'd be where we are now: in something hopeless up to our necks. And your thoughts are entirely wasted on the people you're hoping to reach. The problem isn't your reasoning; it's their values. They want this. They want a "win" somewhere in the oil fields, and Iraq is a good place to start.

 

[Mhari]

I wasn't gonna post anything more to this thread, but I see shereads has.

Just trying to be a good stalker for one night!

Muaha.

Though in all seriousness, I would recommend ignoring all of BS's BS. Even if someone does repost it.



~M

 

[KarenAM]

Re: Re: Re: twelve against blarney isnt a debate

Oh, Christ. You quoted him. The ignore thing doesn't work after all.

So Blarney's excuse for being an ass is is that we gave him too many points that he couldn't counter? Isn't that typically the cue for someone to admit he's wrong?

Jesus.

The political climate is charged, all right. It's charged because the country is divided into two camps: people who insist on an unassailable reason before they blow up other people's children or sacrifice their own; and people who think that being American is reason enough to do as we please.

Notice how rarely they mention Osama bin Laden? He's an afterthought. What matters is that we're exercising our military might.

You're apologizing to people who would gladly send your kid to die, if it made gas cheaper and they could be assured of not having to see his face on Nightline.

Hi, Sher. Sorry about that ignore thing.

Since it would be presumptuous of me to do so, I'll let Blarney explain his own posts. As to mine:

Blarney has done two things which have helped tone down the rancor of our argument:

1. He gave me an honest and anger-free critique of my thesis about why George W. Bush has the enthusiastic followers that he does, and

2. He apologized for his remark calling women "flighty".

I, in turn, apologized for calling him an 18 year-old high school dropout, which I had no evidence he was, and which was therefore unfair of me. This isn't a matter of our discussion at all, but merely a matter of being civil.

So this doesn't mean I agree with his position about Bush or other political issues, and he knows that. We have simply stopped calling each other names.

You're angry, Sher. Considering what you're angry about I can't blame you; you don't have to go far on these boards to find how completely opposed to the war in Iraq I am. You don't have to go far to find me arguing that we need to get Bush out of office ASAP. And you don't have to go far to find me mad as hell over the whole damn mess too.

But I see no reason to be rude with Blarney if he is not being rude with me. Behaving with civility does not require that I give up my opinions or principles, or my willingness to fight for them.

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Re: Re: twelve against blarney isnt a debate

No need for you to explain yourself, Karen. Your posts are always thoughtful and well-informed, compassionate and remarkably calm. I admire your willingness to refrain from name-calling when you've been abused by a self-obsessed war-mongering cretin with an ellipses fetish...haha.



SR

Hi, Sher. Sorry about that ignore thing.

Since it would be presumptuous of me to do so, I'll let Blarney explain his own posts. As to mine:

Blarney has done two things which have helped tone down the rancor of our argument:

1. He gave me an honest and anger-free critique of my thesis about why George W. Bush has the enthusiastic followers that he does, and

2. He apologized for his remark calling women "flighty".

I, in turn, apologized for calling him an 18 year-old high school dropout, which I had no evidence he was, and which was therefore unfair of me. This isn't a matter of our discussion at all, but merely a matter of being civil.

So this doesn't mean I agree with his position about Bush or other political issues, and he knows that. We have simply stopped calling each other names.

You're angry, Sher. Considering what you're angry about I can't blame you; you don't have to go far on these boards to find how completely opposed to the war in Iraq I am. You don't have to go far to find me arguing that we need to get Bush out of office ASAP. And you don't have to go far to find me mad as hell over the whole damn mess too.

But I see no reason to be rude with Blarney if he is not being rude with me. Behaving with civility does not require that I give up my opinions or principles, or my willingness to fight for them.

 

[Pure]

Well, blarney, that was pretty thin soup you served, when I asked if the US had ever, in the last 50 years, invaded and taken down a dictator and set up a democracy.

You mention Noriega.

Perhaps I should say you only get 1/4 credit if the US installed the dictator, of facilitated his ascent, in the first place.

I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, now, but I believe that applies to Noriega.

By the way, there are any number of dictators the US has 'taken down' by devious methods. My impression, however is that they are tyrants set up by the US; puppets who've outlived their usefulness. and --to fit my original claim-- are simply replaced with other puppet dictators. An example would be Diem, installed in S. Vietnam.

So I ask the broader question; looking at the whole 20th century, and leaving aside the odd case of Japan, and leaving aside places with pre-existing democracies, like France, which you mentioned, has the US ever (more or less unilaterally, as in Iraq) used its military (or para military) to establish a democracy?

 

[SummerMorning]

Summ! I love that you quote from Sardinians. My horoscopical sign is the, voila! - Sardine.

Perdita

And Sardinia is a mighty beautiful island, with friendly people, delicious wine and the most delectable cactus figs...

 

[SummerMorning]

Re: Let's end this discussion on a good note

Vini Vidi Vici

Veni

 

[Pure]

Blarney
My knowlege of female anatomy is deeper that you can imagine..

But then again my imagination is quite limited.

 

[pop_54]

Re: Im glad you are still willing to argue

Make a point of topic and we can open this back up...probably bet to let it lie...and Lou I know a lot of Irish who just want their county back and functioning...the british made a fine mess of things there


Perdita we discussed your Lithium levels already...would you like me to run a serum level for you perhaps your dosage needs adjusting

Blarneystoned

I know a lot of Irish people who have their country just the way they want it... Umm where do your Irish friends live then? Oh they'd be the brave freedom fighters living it up in the US well out of it wouldn't they, of course.

The Ireland thing is political and a matter of 'majority' preference, with the 'minority' trying to impose their will by force. The protestant lot want to remain British, the Catholics don't, unfortunately for the Catholics they live in a democracy and the majority protestants vote to remain British in the North... Maybe you yanks could send a few troops over to install a minority government there as well, maybe Zor would like to come over on his/her first commission... I don't know if there's any oil under Ireland for you, but I'm sure you could find something useful there, they do a nice line in real Blarney Stone's I understand.

Nothing more to add really... it's all a bit over my head, sheesh I didn't even know you'd got rid of Reagan.

Hey Lou, and *P* darling's fancy a twat comparing competition, I'll be judge

 

[shereads]

Re: Re: Im glad you are still willing to argue

The Ireland thing is political and a matter of 'majority' preference, with the 'minority' trying to impose their will by force. The protestant lot want to remain British, the Catholics don't, unfortunately for the Catholics they live in a democracy and the majority protestants vote to remain British in the North... Maybe you yanks could send a few troops over to install a minority government there as well, maybe Zor would like to come over on his/her first commission... I don't know if there's any oil under Ireland for you, but I'm sure you could find something useful there, they do a nice line in real Blarney Stone's I understand.

They have peat for fires, right? Or is that Scotland?

I don't think our current government cares much for Catholics. They're running against one. So we'll probably leave Ireland out of the Axis of Evil for now.

Where have you been, Pop?

 

[shereads]

Pop - Do you love the title of this thread? Did it make your eyes sting?

 

[Guest]

Pop - Do you love the title of this thread? Did it make your eyes sting?

It made my cheeks clench, actually.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Re: Like most women Karen ...you are flighty

See you didnt present one idea and I wouldn't by any means call that a thesis...because it was incoherent and lacked focus...your ideas were all over the place with bad examples. You then critique your own writing with what you think should have been said. That is not how it works..you asked me to comment I did...you present nothing new...and thus are pronounced flighty.

Run along now

The battle has ended I am Victorious...they have all ran to other threads to bitch and moan and create more flighty ideas...but its a free country...God Bless our Veterans and God Bless our Soldiers in Iraq.

Nil Sine Numini


Blarneystoned

Your still talking? Surpise.

Little advice, Do not call victory that which is not.

Victory, both tactical & strategic are measureable. Holding the field does not constitute victory, unless the stated tactical objective was to drive the enemy from the field.

In a debate, victory is gained by presenting a better argument, not by aruing louder, longer, or more stubbornly. True strategic victory, in any debate consists of convincing someone of the rightness of your point. It's a rare occurance. Tactical victory, comes with convincing your opponent that you are a worthy opponent and that your points, while not accepted at least have support and creedence to the point where they canot be easily refuted.

You have changed no one's opinion, so strategic victory is denied you. That's usual for a debate between ideological opposites. You convinced no one here that you are intelligent, have a point, can defend that point or even have the capacity to do a comparitive analyisis of information and reach your own conclusion, thus tactical victory is denied you as well.

There are types and types of victory. Sher scored one when she put you on ignore. Lucifer scored one when he gave up trying to make you use logic. Karen scored one of the stronger types by making you look like the obtuse ass you are.

And your victory? It's the school yard, your mamma insult kind. The I got the last word kind. The juvenile, self aggrandizing kind that exists primarily in your own mind.

One cravet to my assesement. If you are a troll, which seems highly likely, then you scored a major victory. You rattled cages, upset people, and sent them off on wild goose chase wastes of their time to present facts you had no intention of looking at anyway. In that case you may well claim your victory. That victory is rather Phyrric though. You have angered people who bore you no animosity, hurt people who have done you no ill, and have had the more literate and intelligent people in this forum discount you as a witless imbecil.

Whatever your purpose, an objective observerer will give you at best a World War I western front victory. Strangely, most of those look like defeats in the final reckoning.

-Colly

 

[tolyk]

Re: Concerning Blarney

I don't believe I have ever seen someone argue as poorly as he has been. I read up to page 7 and then just gave up. I'm not even American, I was just reading it to laugh at his posts. Here is a tip for all of you who are argueing with him though: Don't waste any more of your time, he doesn't win anything, he just loses out on all this information which you were freely handing to him, which he wasn't seeming to comprehend anyways. So what is the point, right?

 

[Blarneystoned]

Reagan is Dead....What a career

Nancy Reagan: "My family and I would like the world to know that President Ronald Reagan has passed away after 10 years of Alzheimer's disease at 93 years of age. We appreciate everyone's prayers

Michael Reagan: I pray that as America reflects on the passing of my Dad, they will remember a man of integrity, conviction and good humor that changed America and the world for the better. He would modestly say the credit goes to others, but I believe the credit is his.

What I will remember is a man that changed my life. He was always there for me when I needed him. He had a way of putting everything into perspective, and I believe that his determination and perseverance came from his relationship with the Lord. He played an important role in pointing me to God.

President George W. Bush: "He always told us that for America the best is yet to come. ... We comfort ourselves by telling ourselves that the same is true for him. ... We know a shining city is waiting for him."

Former President George H.W. Bush: "The most I learned from him was his adherence to principle and to fight for them. ... He used the term 'evil empire' and all his critics were ringing their hands, saying he doesn't know how to conduct foreign affairs ... sure enough peace happened on his watch."

Former President Gerald Ford: "Betty and I are deeply saddened by the passing of our longtime friend, President Reagan. Ronald Reagan was an excellent leader of our nation during challenging times at home and abroad. We extend our deepest condolences and prayers to Nancy and his family."

Former President Bill Clinton: "Hillary and I will always remember President Ronald Reagan for the way he personified the indomitable optimism of the American people, and for keeping America at the forefront of the fight for freedom for people everywhere. It is fitting that a piece of the Berlin Wall adorns the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington."

Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass.: "Ronald Reagan's love of country was infectious. Even when he was breaking Democrats' hearts, he did so with a smile and in the spirit of honest and open debate."

Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert: "How ironic that he died on the eve of the sixtieth anniversary of the D-Day invasion? He shared the vision of those brave men who risked and sometimes lost their lives, so that others could live in freedom. That vision lives today."

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi: "All Americans are grateful for Ronald Reagan's great leadership and service to our country and admired his special grace, optimism, and humor. He served our country with dignity and he died with dignity."

Former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani: "I've studied him more than any other man in modern politics. ... He changed the direction of the world on the strength of his convictions."

Calif. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger: "It is easy to see how profoundly President Reagan changed the world. He made it safer, more free and gave hope and opportunity to millions.

Newt Gingrich: "All free people stand on Reagan's shoulders. His principled policies proved that free markets create wealth, that the rule of law sustains freedom, and that all people everywhere deserve the right to dream, to pursue their dreams, and to govern themselves."

Sen. John McCain: "In the more than thirty years that have passed since I first met [Ronald Reagan], I have never lived a day that I wasn't grateful for the privilege of the Reagans' friendship, and the strength of his faith in America that inspired my own, and so many others."

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle: "America has lost an icon. Ronald Reagan's leadership will inspire Americans for generations to come. His patriotism and devotion to our country will never be forgotten."

Secretary of State Colin Powell: "President Reagan fueled the spirit of America. His smile, his optimism, his total belief in the ultimate triumph of democracy and freedom, and his willingness to act on that belief, helped end the Cold War and usher in a new and brighter phase of history."

Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie: "Ronald Reagan was a president of great historic impact who led the United States with strength and conviction, and the positive impact of his policies is still felt today here and around the world. More than two decades after he was first elected president, the Republican Party still bears his imprint. Because Ronald Reagan lived, people across the globe live in greater freedom and prosperity."

Wanita Trader, a leader at the First Christian Church in Dixon, Ill., which Reagan attended: "He was our hero, he was our hometown boy made good. At the church we feel that we nurtured a president and we are pretty proud of the fact."

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass: "On foreign policy he will be honored as the president who won the Cold War, and his 'Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall' will be linked forever with President Kennedy's 'Ich bin ein Berliner.' President Reagan and Nancy were always very gracious to the Kennedy family and they are both very much in our thoughts and prayers in this difficult time."

Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm: "President Reagan transformed our nation's psyche with his optimism and positive vision. He was a strong leader who made a lasting mark on our nation's history. He was gentle and kind and every American can learn from his example."

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas: "An unequaled champion of freedom, smaller government and market-oriented principles, he has always been an inspiration to me. Perhaps most importantly, this happy warrior faced the gravest threat of his time and made the difficult decisions that ultimately won the Cold War."

Sen. Chuck Hagel, R.-Neb.: "Ronald Reagan was a unique leader who understood the greatness and goodness of America. History will judge him well. He led our nation through historic challenges and changes with unyielding confidence and courage. Ronald Reagan embodied the best of America. He was the American spirit."

New York Republican Gov. George Pataki: "The sun has set on the remarkable life of the great man who reminded us it is always morning in America. President Ronald Wilson Reagan will always be remembered as a man of unwavering principle whose sense of hope, optimism and opportunity appealed to the best in Americans."

Actor Danny Glover: "We all know Reagan's legacy, from the Iran-Contra affair to the funding of the Nicaraguan military in which over 200,000 people died. The groundwork for the move steadily to the right happened with the Reagan administration. People want to elevate him to some mythic level; they have their own reason for doing that."

Johnny Grant, honorary mayor of Hollywood and a longtime friend of Reagan from his Hollywood days: "He was a man who loved his country. I don't know of anybody who's done more for this country and the entertainment industry."


Lets burry the hatchet Colli...for Ronnie's sake. Rattling cages sparks debate. Today is a sad day and one of the good ones has past.

RIP Ronnie and may there be jelly beans in Heaven.

May God BLess Ronald Reagan

Blarneystoned out

 

[Blarneystoned]

My Ireland...in response to Pirate

My Ireland is the not so pretty Ireland...Portadown, Dungannon, Tyrone, Armagh....as for freedom fighters...the Brits are withdrawing troups...this is the first time they have had in a long time to self govern...but there is still a lot of social injustice...I spent my last few days back home listening to an alcoholic tell me how his brother was killed for throwing a rock at a tank....The British soldier fired 80 rounds at him and then walked up to him and drilled the last one in his eye....that is my Ireland...


there is some hope now with the EU...the souths infrastructure is solidifying...but inflation in the south is out of hand...time will tell and so far so good


Blarneystoned

 

[Blarneystoned]

Side Note on Ireland

For the boys in Tyrone:

This year in the All Ireland Gaelic Football playoffs...Tyrone wone the Sam McGuire Cup for the first time in 118 years. Well done Lads...well done!

Long Live TIR' EOGHAIN...the red hand claims victory once more


Blarneystoned

 

[Blarneystoned]

Tolyk

Take off you hoser !! Haha...see you read seven pages didnt you!!

"Anarchy is good for the system."Thomas Jefferson

Blarneystoned

 

[Pure]

"A Shadow on the Land"
by Douglas O'Rourke
LOS ANGELES,

May 24, 2004

-- They've brought America to its knees. They're a ruthless band of fundamentalist religious fanatics that respect no international laws and seem destined to cause only death, misery, and destruction. They strike without warning using stealth, torture, lies, and deception to rain down violence without regard to innocent lives lost.

They cynically exploit the World's media. They constantly invoke the name of their God, to justify every cruel act for their holy cause. They'll use and sacrifice innocent believing kids as warriors. Most of the world already hates and fears them, and no country on Earth is safe from their rage or terror. They are the new evil in the World. So much for the Bush folks. Those al-Qaida guys are no picnic either.....

-----
(www.columnleft.com)

 

[dr_mabeuse]

"A Shadow on the Land"
by Douglas O'Rourke
LOS ANGELES,

May 24, 2004

-- They've brought America to its knees. They're a ruthless band of fundamentalist religious fanatics that respect no international laws and seem destined to cause only death, misery, and destruction. They strike without warning using stealth, torture, lies, and deception to rain down violence without regard to innocent lives lost.

The latest figures put the number of Iraqis killed in Operation Enduring Freedom at 63,000. Of these, 33,000 were Iraqi soldiers, and 30,000 were non-combatant civilians killed in collateral damage.

That’s worth a moment’s thought.

---dr.M.

 

[pop_54]

Re: My Ireland...in response to Pirate

My Ireland is the not so pretty Ireland...Portadown, Dungannon, Tyrone, Armagh....as for freedom fighters...the Brits are withdrawing troups...this is the first time they have had in a long time to self govern...but there is still a lot of social injustice...I spent my last few days back home listening to an alcoholic tell me how his brother was killed for throwing a rock at a tank....The British soldier fired 80 rounds at him and then walked up to him and drilled the last one in his eye....that is my Ireland...


there is some hope now with the EU...the souths infrastructure is solidifying...but inflation in the south is out of hand...time will tell and so far so good


Blarneystoned

You never heard an alcoholic tell you anything of the sort friend... I've come to the logical conclusion you're more full of shit than our local sewage works... you're making all this up as you go along.

For one simple fact... no British soldier in Northern Ireland has or had access to 80 rounds... One clip of 12 in the gun... and one spare clip on the belt, was about the limit I believe... any more had to be signed for and drawn from the quartermaster... Another fact is that only 'rubber' bullets were ever used against stone throwers... horrid things mind you baton rounds... caused a lot of nasty injuries, but not often death... Yet another fact, any British soldier behaving like that would now be serving life in prison... we are about the only country that lock up soldiers for excessive force, one has just recently been released after a long sentence for firing his gun at a car that was trying to run him down in Northern Ireland... it appears he should have tried to jump out of the way instead of opening fire on the vehicle... just thought I'd point this out in case anyone else was simple minded enough to believe your crap.

The troops are leaving thank God... they should have been pulled out years ago and left the protestants and catholics to fight it out among themselves over there in the North... We all know over here who the troops were really protecting... and it wasn't the vastly superior 'numbers' of protestants... it was the crew who did all the complaining and trouble making who needed protection.

The south of Ireland is a lovely peaceful place... I've been there several times on holiday and with work... A number of the locals I spoke to would rather not have the North and the wild protestants affiliated thank you very much... A large number also rejected joining the EU system... They had a vote on it and voted 'No'... The EU didn't like the result so they ordered the Irish to re-run the vote wording everything differently and making threats of high unemployment and disaster to the 'No' voters.

High inflation, high house prices, high unemployment, is ruining the Southern Ireland I knew a while back... This is the miracle of the EU??

I just heard poor old Ronnie Reagan popped his cloggs, bless him... nice bloke he was, sad to see him end up the way he did.

pops

 

[pop_54]

Re: Re: Re: Im glad you are still willing to argue

They have peat for fires, right? Or is that Scotland?

I don't think our current government cares much for Catholics. They're running against one. So we'll probably leave Ireland out of the Axis of Evil for now.

Where have you been, Pop?

I've been here there and everywhere darling, mainly everywhere Shame about the Catholic thing, we were rather hoping someone could take it all off our hands.

 

[pop_54]

Pop - Do you love the title of this thread? Did it make your eyes sting?

Ummm..........?????.......... No!

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: My Ireland...in response to Pirate

You never heard an alcoholic tell you anything of the sort friend... I've come to the logical conclusion you're more full of shit than our local sewage works... you're making all this up as you go along.

For one simple fact... no British soldier in Northern Ireland has or had access to 80 rounds... One clip of 12 in the gun... and one spare clip on the belt, was about the limit I believe... any more had to be signed for and drawn from the quartermaster... Another fact is that only 'rubber' bullets were ever used against stone throwers... horrid things mind you baton rounds... caused a lot of nasty injuries, but not often death... Yet another fact, any British soldier behaving like that would now be serving life in prison... we are about the only country that lock up soldiers for excessive force, one has just recently been released after a long sentence for firing his gun at a car that was trying to run him down in Northern Ireland... it appears he should have tried to jump out of the way instead of opening fire on the vehicle... just thought I'd point this out in case anyone else was simple minded enough to believe your crap.

The troops are leaving thank God... they should have been pulled out years ago and left the protestants and catholics to fight it out among themselves over there in the North... We all know over here who the troops were really protecting... and it wasn't the vastly superior 'numbers' of protestants... it was the crew who did all the complaining and trouble making who needed protection.

The south of Ireland is a lovely peaceful place... I've been there several times on holiday and with work... A number of the locals I spoke to would rather not have the North and the wild protestants affiliated thank you very much... A large number also rejected joining the EU system... They had a vote on it and voted 'No'... The EU didn't like the result so they ordered the Irish to re-run the vote wording everything differently and making threats of high unemployment and disaster to the 'No' voters.

High inflation, high house prices, high unemployment, is ruining the Southern Ireland I knew a while back... This is the miracle of the EU??

I just heard poor old Ronnie Reagan popped his cloggs, bless him... nice bloke he was, sad to see him end up the way he did.

pops

Hi pops -

Good to see you!

 

[shereads]

The latest figures put the number of Iraqis killed in Operation Enduring Freedom at 63,000. Of these, 33,000 were Iraqi soldiers, and 30,000 were non-combatant civilians killed in collateral damage.

That’s worth a moment’s thought.

---dr.M.

That ought to be worth the election.

If we really are there to improve the lives of Iraqis and not because of WMD and not because of the Al Queda link that we now know was also manufacturered by Chalabi...then we've failed miserably at our one remaining goal.

Those 30,000 non-combatants had families and some were heads of household, and there's not even a policy in place to help their dependents survive.

Anyone who supports this fiasco in the face of such mayhem has to ask themselves what has been gained. Saddam Hussein would not have lived forever. There was no need for this. We were conned, and so were the Iraqis who trusted us to have a plan.