Looking for advice-I’m wondering if I’m reading this wrong- wife and best friend.

[Gr82meetu2]

Fetish and sexuality is the only forum that I follow so I’m posting it here because I don’t really want to get into other threads if it’s the wrong place. I’m sure the moderators will let me know.

My wife’s oldest and dearest childhood friend, is a lesbian. A lovely woman I get along with her very well.

We used to live in Vancouver, but moved to a rural community outside of Toronto about 16 years ago. Before that time my wife’s friend had girlfriends. After we moved home, she kind of broke up with her current girlfriend and hasn’t been in a relationship since. Around that time my wife’s interested in sex with me significantly diminished.
It could be age or the busyness of life, but the correlation seemed questionable at best.

For years, my wife will go down and stay at her friends condo two or three times a year in Toronto. They will go shopping or go for dinner. It’s a one bedroom condo with a couch and no spare bedroom.
During Covid her friends moved in with us and lived with us for eight months because she didn’t want to be cooped up in a condo in the city and we have some property. During that time, I was often getting up at 5 AM to go to work and switch. When I would leave. the living room the two of them would be curled up on the couch. And the next morning I would find my wife had decided to sleep on the couch, so not to disturb me when she came to bed.
In fact, her friend lived with us she would rarely sleep in the same bed with me.

Since that time they do a lot more things together.
In fact this summer, they’re leaving for 10 days to hike the West Coast Trail on Vancouver Island.
And this weekend are going camping together as a preparatory trip to make sure they’ve got all their gear together.
They’re sleeping in a very small two person tent.
I think it’ll be a lot of fun.

Anyway, I have asked my wife before
And she got quite offended
And says that nothing is going on
I know it’s difficult from a small writing to try to assess the situation.
I obviously believe that something is going on
But there’s enough doubt that makes me think. Am I just being chauvinistic?

I’ve let her know that I don’t care that we all need to find love in our own way.
She behaves as I’m being an arsehole.

But still isn’t very interested and physical relationship with me.
Which in turn has driven me out of our bedroom in search of intimacy.

I’m trying to figure out how to piece this all together and create a fulfilling life for both of us

It’s a difficult thing to talk about in my friend group

I’d be interested to hear anyone’s thoughts

 

[policywank]

I think that you are conflating two separate matters. One is the lack of intimacy in your marriage. The other is suspicion as to whether she is having an intimate relationship with her friend. I understand that the manner in which events have unfolded has lead you to think that maybe one caused the other. But the result seems to be that you are focusing on this other woman more so than your own relationship. Regardless of how that comes across it is understandable that she will get tired of that discussion. Whether she isn't having an intimate relationship or she is and isn't willing to admit it, continuing to raise that isn't going anywhere. And it is a discussion where she can take the position that you are wrong and she wants you to drop it.

You might want to start with talking about the lack of intimacy in your marriage as a stand-alone topic. Don't speculate on the reasons why and certainly don't try to correlate it to events with this other woman. Just raise the premise that you feel like the intimacy in your marriage has decreased and ask her to talk with you about it. Hopefully she opens up, but even if she doesn't this is not a topic on which she can claim that you are wrong. She might disagree but you are clearly entitled to your own feelings. So, if she tries to shut you down you can firmly and nicely say "Listen I feel that lack of intimacy. It is real for me and you don't get to tell me that my feelings are invalid. We are a couple and you owe it to me to take my feelings seriously." Then be ready to describe in tangible ways how you perceive the changes in your intimate life, but make sure that none of it comes across as accusations.

It is very easy to shut down a conversation about something that may or may not have happened because it is fact based and she is the only one of the two of you who has the facts. It is much more difficult to shut down a conversation about personal feelings and experiences and when someone tries to do so it is easy to say "you don't get to tell me how I feel" because you are the one who knows how you feel.

 

[13Fantasies]

I agree with @policywank

Especially on the degree and amount of intimacy with your wife, you are directly impacted by that and can offer ore compelling evidence.

The circumstantial observations of her and her friend aren't helpful and might even be making other aspects of your relationship with your wife worse.

Focus on what does directly impact you and what you might be able to work on. Leave the rest alone

 

[Gr82meetu2]

I think that you are conflating two separate matters. One is the lack of intimacy in your marriage. The other is suspicion as to whether she is having an intimate relationship with her friend. I understand that the manner in which events have unfolded has lead you to think that maybe one caused the other. But the result seems to be that you are focusing on this other woman more so than your own relationship. Regardless of how that comes across it is understandable that she will get tired of that discussion. Whether she isn't having an intimate relationship or she is and isn't willing to admit it, continuing to raise that isn't going anywhere. And it is a discussion where she can take the position that you are wrong and she wants you to drop it.

You might want to start with talking about the lack of intimacy in your marriage as a stand-alone topic. Don't speculate on the reasons why and certainly don't try to correlate it to events with this other woman. Just raise the premise that you feel like the intimacy in your marriage has decreased and ask her to talk with you about it. Hopefully she opens up, but even if she doesn't this is not a topic on which she can claim that you are wrong. She might disagree but you are clearly entitled to your own feelings. So, if she tries to shut you down you can firmly and nicely say "Listen I feel that lack of intimacy. It is real for me and you don't get to tell me that my feelings are invalid. We are a couple and you owe it to me to take my feelings seriously." Then be ready to describe in tangible ways how you perceive the changes in your intimate life, but make sure that none of it comes across as accusations.

It is very easy to shut down a conversation about something that may or may not have happened because it is fact based and she is the only one of the two of you who has the facts. It is much more difficult to shut down a conversation about personal feelings and experiences and when someone tries to do so it is easy to say "you don't get to tell me how I feel" because you are the one who knows how you feel.

Thank you for the sound advice

 

[thedancer]

Fetish and sexuality is the only forum that I follow so I’m posting it here because I don’t really want to get into other threads if it’s the wrong place. I’m sure the moderators will let me know.

My wife’s oldest and dearest childhood friend, is a lesbian. A lovely woman I get along with her very well.

We used to live in Vancouver, but moved to a rural community outside of Toronto about 16 years ago. Before that time my wife’s friend had girlfriends. After we moved home, she kind of broke up with her current girlfriend and hasn’t been in a relationship since. Around that time my wife’s interested in sex with me significantly diminished.
It could be age or the busyness of life, but the correlation seemed questionable at best.

For years, my wife will go down and stay at her friends condo two or three times a year in Toronto. They will go shopping or go for dinner. It’s a one bedroom condo with a couch and no spare bedroom.
During Covid her friends moved in with us and lived with us for eight months because she didn’t want to be cooped up in a condo in the city and we have some property. During that time, I was often getting up at 5 AM to go to work and switch. When I would leave. the living room the two of them would be curled up on the couch. And the next morning I would find my wife had decided to sleep on the couch, so not to disturb me when she came to bed.
In fact, her friend lived with us she would rarely sleep in the same bed with me.

Since that time they do a lot more things together.
In fact this summer, they’re leaving for 10 days to hike the West Coast Trail on Vancouver Island.
And this weekend are going camping together as a preparatory trip to make sure they’ve got all their gear together.
They’re sleeping in a very small two person tent.
I think it’ll be a lot of fun.

Anyway, I have asked my wife before
And she got quite offended
And says that nothing is going on
I know it’s difficult from a small writing to try to assess the situation.
I obviously believe that something is going on
But there’s enough doubt that makes me think. Am I just being chauvinistic?

I’ve let her know that I don’t care that we all need to find love in our own way.
She behaves as I’m being an arsehole.

But still isn’t very interested and physical relationship with me.
Which in turn has driven me out of our bedroom in search of intimacy.

I’m trying to figure out how to piece this all together and create a fulfilling life for both of us

It’s a difficult thing to talk about in my friend group

I’d be interested to hear anyone’s thoughts

I think you are right to suspect that your wife's intimacy with another woman has interfered with her desire to be with you intimately. Others may try to tell you that the issue of the lack of intimacy in your marriage is a separate issue from the issue of a potential affair of your wife with another woman, but I think that if another woman has become a substitute for your wife's intimacy with you, then you have a legitimate concern because you depend on your wife for intimacy.

To me it seems obvious that this other woman has come between you and your wife--for several reasons you have listed here--there are red flags everywhere:

First, your wife has had diminished interest in intimacy with you since she has spent more time with the other woman.

Second, she is spending significant amounts of time exclusively with this other woman and that is time away from you.

Third, her hostility towards your asking her about the potential affair is a very big red flag that she is trying to hide her intimate relationship with this woman from you. If she really had no interest, she would be nonchalant, and not hostile.

Fourth, you have a right to ask about any relationship that takes intimacy from your marriage. What if the shoe was on the other foot and you were having an affair? Wouldn't she have the right to ask you about an affair with someone else if you suddenly lost interest in intimacy with your wife?

It is very easy nowadays to find out if your wife is having an affair. You can ask mutual friends. You can hire a private investigator. You can search her messages on her phone. You can set up a camera and capture their intimacy if they are doing intimate things in your home. You can ask the other woman if she is having an affair with your wife. Etc., etc., etc...

There are services where people can learn about how to discover if their partner is having an affair. You should avail yourself of such a service if for no other reason than to have some peace of mind. And then if you find out there is no affair, no harm, no foul. You can work on your marriage intimacy. But if you do find out there is an affair going on, you have a decision to make. Do you confront? Do you ignore? Do you leave her and find someone else? That is up to you.

But I think you have a right to peace of mind. Right now you don't have any peace of mind.

Get answers and get back your peace of mind. Then decide what to do with your marriage.

That's what I think--even if I'm a newbie here.

 

[PhiloDaddy]

I think you are right to suspect that your wife's intimacy with another woman has interfered with her desire to be with you intimately. Others may try to tell you that the issue of the lack of intimacy in your marriage is a separate issue from the issue of a potential affair of your wife with another woman, but I think that if another woman has become a substitute for your wife's intimacy with you, then you have a legitimate concern because you depend on your wife for intimacy.

To me it seems obvious that this other woman has come between you and your wife--for several reasons you have listed here--there are red flags everywhere:

First, your wife has had diminished interest in intimacy with you since she has spent more time with the other woman.

Second, she is spending significant amounts of time exclusively with this other woman and that is time away from you.

Third, her hostility towards your asking her about the potential affair is a very big red flag that she is trying to hide her intimate relationship with this woman from you. If she really had no interest, she would be nonchalant, and not hostile.

Fourth, you have a right to ask about any relationship that takes intimacy from your marriage. What if the shoe was on the other foot and you were having an affair? Wouldn't she have the right to ask you about an affair with someone else if you suddenly lost interest in intimacy with your wife?

It is very easy nowadays to find out if your wife is having an affair. You can ask mutual friends. You can hire a private investigator. You can search her messages on her phone. You can set up a camera and capture their intimacy if they are doing intimate things in your home. You can ask the other woman if she is having an affair with your wife. Etc., etc., etc...

There are services where people can learn about how to discover if their partner is having an affair. You should avail yourself of such a service if for no other reason than to have some peace of mind. And then if you find out there is no affair, no harm, no foul. You can work on your marriage intimacy. But if you do find out there is an affair going on, you have a decision to make. Do you confront? Do you ignore? Do you leave her and find someone else? That is up to you.

But I think you have a right to peace of mind. Right now you don't have any peace of mind.

Get answers and get back your peace of mind. Then decide what to do with your marriage.

That's what I think--even if I'm a newbie here.

@thedancer - I think your advice is sound but only after first communicating the concern about a lack of interest and intimacy.

@Gr82meetu2 - ... I know there are two sides to every story and even if you suspect she's having an affair you should self examine whether you may have offended her in any way that has created an emotional wedge that her friend is leveraging. ???

 

[And4778]

#1 Men always think the obvious
#2 the obvious is usually the truth

 

[eroticbum]

Tough situation, Are you jealous or afraid of losing your wife? If wife is having fun with her friend does it bother you or turn you on? Just a few things to consider next time to talk with the wife.
Be open about your feelings and what you would like to happen.

If it were me, I'd ask the women to not hide behind my back, I'd prefer it to be open if something is going on.
I know my wife is happily married to me, and I'd be ok with her friend also making my wife happy.
I'd love to come home and catch her friend snacking on my wifes pussy, I'd kiss my wife hello.

 

[Lucy_Lastic]

Anyway, I have asked my wife before
And she got quite offended
And says that nothing is going on

Believe her.

 

[MiaBabe23]

I agree, @policywank has some really good points

I also think that little of what you say mentions what your wife feels, and how you feel about what she may feel - I may be wrong, but I’m guessing at that she’s kinda felt that lack of interest from you too in some way
If you open the dialogue only focused on your feelings, and not hers and what you share/ could share, I imagine you risk the same defensive response
It’s no wonder she may feel comforted and alive around a friend who is focused on positive time

So I would recommend, think about the good points above, but also put yourself in her shoes and think genuinely about how you could make things good for both of you

 

[YourSecretDesires]

Trust your instincts. She is spending more time with another and your sex life with her has diminished. Even if she weren't physically cheating, her conduct within the relationship is poor at best. You don't need "proof" to know that you are being excluded. You don't need "logic" to rationalize that everything is okay if you feel it is not. Listen to those emotions, but make decisions when not in an emotional state.

 

[policywank]

I agree, @policywank has some really good points

I also think that little of what you say mentions what your wife feels, and how you feel about what she may feel - I may be wrong, but I’m guessing at that she’s kinda felt that lack of interest from you too in some way
If you open the dialogue only focused on your feelings, and not hers and what you share/ could share, I imagine you risk the same defensive response
It’s no wonder she may feel comforted and alive around a friend who is focused on positive time

So I would recommend, think about the good points above, but also put yourself in her shoes and think genuinely about how you could make things good for both of you

When I say that he should separate the lack of intimacy in the marriage from the suspicion that she is having an intimate relationship with her friend I am not saying that the two couldn't be connected. Nor am I saying he doesn't have the right to know or that he should disregard the red flags.I am saying that it helps to think of them independently, especially in terms of your communication with your wife, to see if they are indeed connected and more importantly to smooth a path for communication. Otherwise one tends to assume a causal relationship that isn't there or is perhaps backwards.

Obviously if she is having an intimate relationship with her friend that could have an impact on her intimacy with her husband. But it helps to think of the lack of intimacy on its own to see if there might be other factors at play. If he doesn't separate these things she is more likely to react negatively to her husband's interpretation of things and the causal relationships. For instance, he may be imagining that she is having an affair and that is what has driven a wedge between them. Maybe something else entirely is what created that wedge and her response has been to spend more time with her friend. And his suspicions are just driving that wedge in further. Regardless of the circumstances if he makes it all about her behaviour and his interpretation thereof that will come across as accusatory which is not likely to go well. And if she is not receptive to the discussion she can much more easily be dismissive of his interpretation of events than she can of his feelings.

I have always found the expression of one's own feelings to be the most powerful way to facilitate challenging conversations. It is difficult for people to say your feelings are invalid and if they do it is easy to challenge that. Even if she says that his interpretation of events is all wrong he can stand his ground and say his feelings are valid and it isn't acceptable to ignore them. If that doesn't work accusing and arguing sure won't work.

It is worth noting that arguments rarely ever sway anybody's views unless they are first receptive. Especially with your spouse there is almost no such thing as winning an argument. Even if you think you have come out on top you haven't won anything except hard feelings and that won't compel her to open up.

You did X and I think it means Y is a dead end conversation. She can just deny. Likewise getting frustrated and asserting your "right to know" might feel compelling to him but it won't compel her to do anything. Feeling justified in demanding answers won't necessarily get you answers. It is all about finding a way to facilitate a willing dialogue.

 

[MiaBabe23]

When I say that he should separate the lack of intimacy in the marriage from the suspicion that she is having an intimate relationship with her friend I am not saying that the two couldn't be connected. Nor am I saying he doesn't have the right to know or that he should disregard the red flags.I am saying that it helps to think of them independently, especially in terms of your communication with your wife, to see if they are indeed connected and more importantly to smooth a path for communication. Otherwise one tends to assume a causal relationship that isn't there or is perhaps backwards.

Obviously if she is having an intimate relationship with her friend that could have an impact on her intimacy with her husband. But it helps to think of the lack of intimacy on its own to see if there might be other factors at play. If he doesn't separate these things she is more likely to react negatively to her husband's interpretation of things and the causal relationships. For instance, he may be imagining that she is having an affair and that is what has driven a wedge between them. Maybe something else entirely is what created that wedge and her response has been to spend more time with her friend. And his suspicions are just driving that wedge in further. Regardless of the circumstances if he makes it all about her behaviour and his interpretation thereof that will come across as accusatory which is not likely to go well. And if she is not receptive to the discussion she can much more easily be dismissive of his interpretation of events than she can of his feelings.

I have always found the expression of one's own feelings to be the most powerful way to facilitate challenging conversations. It is difficult for people to say your feelings are invalid and if they do it is easy to challenge that. Even if she says that his interpretation of events is all wrong he can stand his ground and say his feelings are valid and it isn't acceptable to ignore them. If that doesn't work accusing and arguing sure won't work.

It is worth noting that arguments rarely ever sway anybody's views unless they are first receptive. Especially with your spouse there is almost no such thing as winning an argument. Even if you think you have come out on top you haven't won anything except hard feelings and that won't compel her to open up.

You did X and I think it means Y is a dead end conversation. She can just deny. Likewise getting frustrated and asserting your "right to know" might feel compelling to him but it won't compel her to do anything. Feeling justified in demanding answers won't necessarily get you answers. It is all about finding a way to facilitate a willing dialogue.

Agreed, I wasn’t suggesting you were overlooking or oversimplifying, I just mentioned you to say you had said many of the points I would have said

Good additional thoughts for sure

 

[policywank]

Agreed, I wasn’t suggesting you were overlooking or oversimplifying, I just mentioned you to say you had said many of the points I would have said

Good additional thoughts for sure

Oh I know you weren't suggesting that. I just quoted you because it was part of the same line of thought. It is good advice to seek to understand her feelings and make sure to respect them.

 

[Goldenfinger]

Your wife should be trying to alleviate your fears not get angry and think you’re an ass.