Rosalynn Carter dead at 96

[RandyRebecca]

She was 2 in 1976 and 6 in 1980, and not all Georgians voted for him either time.

I know that. I meant that if Marjorie Taylor Greene had been around then as an adult, she'd have probably gone for Carter. The political dynamic of America then was totally different to today. Conservative voters in Georgia, especially in 1976, mostly went for Carter rather than Ford. It's not Utah's Mormon conservatives, who strongly favored Ford. Carter also won the evangelical vote in 1976, and he was "one of them" from the south potentially going to Washington DC. I believe George Wallace himself voted for Carter both times.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Jimmy was a fine President, I never understood why there was such a projection that he was terrible.

Really? There's the Iran business (from the revolution, the Shah, the hostage crisis), alienating his own Democratic base to the extent that Ted Kennedy went into battle against him in the primaries until the bitter end, Carter ending Detente after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Olympic boycott and reintroducing the draft that Nixon and Ford had gotten rid of. The draft! The Carter administration were also the ones to start arming the Mujahideen, a bunch of reactionary cut-throats, against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

The Ted Kennedy fallout even caused Carter to narrowly lose Massachusetts to Reagan in 1980, the same state that even George McGovern had won convincingly against Richard Nixon in 1972.

That said, the hostages getting released just after Reagan's inauguration on January 20, 1981, was no coincidence. This was obviously a part of what became the Iran-Contra scandal in the Reagan era, i.e. making deals with the Iranians to sell them weapons in secret, and then using the financial proceeds to fund the Contras in Nicaragua and El Salvador against the Sandinistas. In public, the US supported Saddam Hussein's Iraq in the 1980s against Iran.

Maybe because he was genuinely religious and happily married, both qualities going against everything the GOP & the RW press stands for.

In 1976, Carter brought the evangelicals into mainstream politics and had their support against Ford. In 1980, Carter lost the evangelical vote in a big way against Reagan. Ever since then, the Republicans have largely pandered to the evangelical base in nationwide contests.

 

[adrina]

Really? There's the Iran business (from the revolution, the Shah, the hostage crisis), alienating his own Democratic base to the extent that Ted Kennedy went into battle against him in the primaries until the bitter end, Carter ending Detente after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the Olympic boycott and reintroducing the draft that Nixon and Ford had gotten rid of. The draft! The Carter administration were also the ones to start arming the Mujahideen, a bunch of reactionary cut-throats, against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

The Ted Kennedy fallout even caused Carter to narrowly lose Massachusetts to Reagan in 1980, the same state that even George McGovern had won convincingly against Richard Nixon in 1972.

That said, the hostages getting released just after Reagan's inauguration on January 20, 1981, was no coincidence. This was obviously a part of what became the Iran-Contra scandal in the Reagan era, i.e. making deals with the Iranians to sell them weapons in secret, and then using the financial proceeds to fund the Contras in Nicaragua and El Salvador against the Sandinistas. In public, the US supported Saddam Hussein's Iraq in the 1980s against Iran.


In 1976, Carter brought the evangelicals into mainstream politics and had their support against Ford. In 1980, Carter lost the evangelical vote in a big way against Reagan. Ever since then, the Republicans have largely pandered to the evangelical base in nationwide contests.

That was Reagan. Reagan brought evangelicals into mainstream American politics.

Check your information sources.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Jimmy was a fine President, I never understood why there was such a projection that he was terrible. Maybe because he was genuinely religious and happily married, both qualities going against everything the GOP & the RW press stands for.

Carter was not responsible for the inflation that doomed his presidency. President Eisenhower was. In 1953 Eisenhower directed the CIA to help the Iranian military and the British secret service to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran and install the Shah as an absolute monarch. The CIA helped develop SAVAK, which was the Shah's secret police.

The Shah was not a popular leader. Iranians blamed the United States for imposing him on them. When they overthrew the Shah they expressed their hostility for the United States by raising the price of petroleum and by occupying the U.S. embassy and taking those working for the embassy prisoner.

What happened to Carter illustrates that leaders can be harmed by what is beyond their power.

Eisenhower made two decisions that did not harm him, but they destroyed the presidencies of two Democrat presidents. His other decision was not to sign and not to honor the Geneva Agreement of 1954, which ended the colonial war between France and the Viet Minh.

 

[JohnEngelman]

In 1976, Carter brought the evangelicals into mainstream politics and had their support against Ford. In 1980, Carter lost the evangelical vote in a big way against Reagan. Ever since then, the Republicans have largely pandered to the evangelical base in nationwide contests.

Evangelicals have not been good at choosing presidents. Reagan rarely attended church. Trump rarely attends church. Trump did deliver on abortion. Whether or not that will benefit the Republican Party in the long run remains to be seen.

 

[Bn2f]

Evangelicals have not been good at choosing presidents. Reagan rarely attended church. Trump rarely attends church. Trump did deliver on abortion. Whether or not that will benefit the Republican Party in the long run remains to be seen.

You’ve said 2x now.
I gotta ask for clarification.
Um, when did trump EVER attend church services? He was at Liberty U (2 Corinthians) and he stood in front of one holding a bible upside down, but attended???

 

[JohnEngelman]

You’ve said 2x now.
I gotta ask for clarification.
Um, when did trump EVER attend church services? He was at Liberty U (2 Corinthians) and he stood in front of one holding a bible upside down, but attended???

Trump married his third wife in an Episcopal Church. Once I saw him attend a service at the Washington Cathedral in Washington, DC. However, he was not able to follow the service in the Book of Common Prayer because he has dyslexia.

It is probably the case that the military boarding school he attended had compulsory chapel.

 

[Bn2f]

Trump married his third wife in an Episcopal Church. Once I saw him attend a service at the Washington Cathedral in Washington, DC. However, he was not able to follow the service in the Book of Common Prayer because he has dyslexia.

It is probably the case that the military boarding school he attended had compulsory chapel.

Ok thx.
Interesting.
But, to be clear, we are not saying he’s like a committed parishioner to any church other than at Bedminster.

 

[JohnEngelman]

Ok thx.
Interesting.
But, to be clear, we are not saying he’s like a committed parishioner to any church other than at Bedminster.

Trump is committed to his own well being. His family comes second. His rich friends come third. Everyone else, including the poorly educated people he pretends to love come in a very distant fourth.

 

[RandyRebecca]

That was Reagan. Reagan brought evangelicals into mainstream American politics.

Check your information sources.

Carter brought the evangelicals into mainstream politics in 1976, and won their support against Ford. Carter then lost them BIG to Reagan in 1980. Admittedly, Carter never used them as crudely as Reagan and future Republicans went on to do.

An April 1976 New York Times article:
https://www.nytimes.com/1976/04/11/...ng-religion-into-politics-for-first-time.html

In a way, Carter (like Wallace in 1968) was a gateway Democrat for those conservatives from the Democratic Solid South who became Republican voters in presidential elections after. With Wallace, it was based on civil rights, race and segregation. With Carter, on evangelical religion.

 

[adrina]

Carter brought the evangelicals into mainstream politics in 1976, and won their support against Ford. Carter then lost them BIG to Reagan in 1980. Admittedly, Carter never used them as crudely as Reagan and future Republicans went on to do.

An April 1976 New York Times article:
https://www.nytimes.com/1976/04/11/...ng-religion-into-politics-for-first-time.html

In a way, Carter (like Wallace in 1968) was a gateway Democrat for those conservatives from the Democratic Solid South who became Republican voters in presidential elections after. With Wallace, it was based on civil rights, race and segregation. With Carter, on evangelical religion.

Carter didn't win the support of the majority of evangelicals.

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1061&context=research_symp

Although Ford won 51-52% of the evangelical vote nationwide, he won less than 50% of
the evangelical vote in key states like Missouri, Kentucky, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, a fact which
cost him the election.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/religion-politics-evangelicals.html

When he campaigned for president in 1976, Jimmy Carter often invoked the late theologian Reinhold Niebuhr and his admonition that “the sad duty of politics is to establish justice in a sinful world.”

Mr. Carter managed, narrowly, to win that first post-Watergate national election. As president, he put liberal aspects of his Baptist tradition front and center, whether appealing for racial equality, lamenting economic disparity or making human rights concerns integral to American foreign policy. What he did not win were the hearts and minds of his white co-religionists.

A new movement of white evangelicalism awakened during his presidency, one that was socially conservative and hostile to his agenda and to him personally. In 1980, Mr. Carter lost the White House to the Republican Ronald Reagan, who had support from two-thirds of white evangelical voters. They liked Mr. Reagan’s staunch anti-Communism and his calls for limited government, so much so that they closed their eyes to aspects of his character — twice-married, alienated from his children, almost never attended church — that flew counter to much of what they considered elements of an upright life.

And then the Moral Majority (vomit) blah blah blah... the rest is history.

However I'm going to admit that I did not realize that it was Jimmy Carter who worked to open Pandora's Box in the call to action for evangelicals through government involvement. For much of American history evangelicals considered the business of government and governance best avoided.

Reagan exploited the holy hell out of it. I don't believe "crude" accurately describes his very deliberate and exploitative use of them to achieve the presidency.

I'd like to see evangelicalism put back under the rock it crawled out from.

 

[RandyRebecca]

Carter didn't win the support of the majority of evangelicals.

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1061&context=research_symp

I stand corrected. But Carter did win the evangelicals in the south and in key parts of the midwest, and he clearly got his evangelical supporters from 1976 hugely interested and involved in politics in the years following, even though they turned against Carter later on and went big for Reagan and future Republicans.

Ford was an Episcopalian, i.e. a mainline protestant, so I wouldn't say that he was an evangelical as that link seems to suggest. Ford's supporters ranged from liberals to moderates to conservatives. His liberal supporters liked his moderate stances, and his conservative supporters liked his discipline and assurance as a statesman (not really something that Marjorie Taylor Greene types would be attracted to). I don't think religion had all that much to do with it on Ford's side (by American standards), unlike the moralism on Carter's side.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/us/religion-politics-evangelicals.html

An Interesting article. Thanks for the link. Carter seems to have appealed strongly in 1976 to evangelicals in the south, and southerners in general, along with people elsewhere who wanted a perceived outsider and "fresh start", and in key states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. And of course, New York City never forgave Ford for the infamous "Drop Dead" headline in response to Wall Street's fiscal crisis of 1975. Carter won NYC in a landslide because of that, enough to win New York State's electoral votes from the Ford wins elsewhere in the state.

The article I cited from the New York Times said that Carter would have no trouble in Mormon Utah, which was emphatically wrong, as Utah was Carter's weakest state in the nation in both 1976 and 1980. The Mormons there like discipline and reassurance, so would obviously identify much more with Ford than they ever would with a Carter. The evangelicals, especially in the south, are very different from the Mormons in that regard. Not only was Carter one of them, but they were much more prepared to be unsubtle and roll the dice.

And Reagan makes me angry whenever I think of him. Evangelicals also closed their eyes to him, as California governor, signing legislation on gun control and abortion rights. He was still acting in politics, lulling people with superficial charm and wit, while he acted as frontman for the economic crazies in big business who wanted to turbo charge a big right-wing shift.

And then the Moral Majority (vomit) blah blah blah... the rest is history.

However I'm going to admit that I did not realize that it was Jimmy Carter who worked to open Pandora's Box in the call to action for evangelicals through government involvement. For much of American history evangelicals considered the business of government and governance best avoided.

Yes. Billy Graham was nervous about evangelicals getting heavily involved in politics. He didn't trust politicians to look after their religious interests.

I'd like to see evangelicalism put back under the rock it crawled out from.

Absolutely agree. It poisons American politics and cultural life.

 

[adrina]

I stand corrected. But Carter did win the evangelicals in the south and in key parts of the midwest, and he clearly got his evangelical supporters from 1976 hugely interested and involved in politics in the years following, even though they turned against Carter later on and went big for Reagan and future Republicans.

Ford was an Episcopalian, i.e. a mainline protestant, so I wouldn't say that he was an evangelical as that link seems to suggest. Ford's supporters ranged from liberals to moderates to conservatives. His liberal supporters liked his moderate stances, and his conservative supporters liked his discipline and assurance as a statesman (not really something that Marjorie Taylor Greene types would be attracted to). I don't think religion had all that much to do with it on Ford's side (by American standards), unlike the moralism on Carter's side.


An Interesting article. Thanks for the link. Carter seems to have appealed strongly in 1976 to evangelicals in the south, and southerners in general, along with people elsewhere who wanted a perceived outsider and "fresh start", and in key states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. And of course, New York City never forgave Ford for the infamous "Drop Dead" headline in response to Wall Street's fiscal crisis of 1975. Carter won NYC in a landslide because of that, enough to win New York State's electoral votes from the Ford wins elsewhere in the state.

The article I cited from the New York Times said that Carter would have no trouble in Mormon Utah, which was emphatically wrong, as Utah was Carter's weakest state in the nation in both 1976 and 1980. The Mormons there like discipline and reassurance, so would obviously identify much more with Ford than they ever would with a Carter. The evangelicals, especially in the south, are very different from the Mormons in that regard. Not only was Carter one of them, but they were much more prepared to be unsubtle and roll the dice.

And Reagan makes me angry whenever I think of him. Evangelicals also closed their eyes to him, as California governor, signing legislation on gun control and abortion rights. He was still acting in politics, lulling people with superficial charm and wit, while he acted as frontman for the economic crazies in big business who wanted to turbo charge a big right-wing shift.


Yes. Billy Graham was nervous about evangelicals getting heavily involved in politics. He didn't trust politicians to look after their religious interests.


Absolutely agree. It poisons American politics and cultural life.

One of the most notable things to me to come out of that bit of research is that we heard the exact same thing pretty much when it came to the evangelicals holding their noses and voting for both Reagan and Trump. At this point the evangelicals need to pack it in. If they can't find someone who walks the walk and instead only vote for someone loosely based around "owning the libs" and fear of democrats then they need to give it up.

 

[Chobham]

Jimmy Carter was a disappointment as president. I even voted for him.

That being said, Jimmy and Rosalynn were among the most honorable and humble people to ever occupy the White House.

 

[RobDownSouth]

There was a memorial service held for Rosalynn Carter today.

President Carter was in attendance, we saw the first photos of him since he entered hospice months back.

He looked.....not long for this world.

I hope he is reunited with the love of his life soon.

 

[jaF0]

^^^^ They were pictured in public together a few weeks ago at a parade in Plains.

 

[schism666]

Jimmy Carter was a disappointment as president. I even voted for him.

That being said, Jimmy and Rosalynn were among the most honorable and humble people to ever occupy the White House.

your drunk old ass also voted for trump twice so we'll just go ahead and dismiss your criticism of carter.

 

[schism666]

#BeBest

 

[RandyRebecca]

your drunk old ass also voted for trump twice so we'll just go ahead and dismiss your criticism of carter.

A lot of Trump voters, i.e. the old ones, would have voted for Carter back in the day. That's what a lot of people today don't seem to understand. Those were different times. Look at the 1976 electoral map, and the Democratic blue in the south.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/1976_United_States_presidential_election_results_map_by_county.svg/1280px-1976_United_States_presidential_election_results_map_by_county.svg.png

Map by Inqvisitor

 

[schism666]

do you know where carter is from?

 

[ll74]

Why the fuck are people discussing which first lady is better than the others at a fucking funeral for a first lady....jfc people.....look at yourself in the mirror.