Will the US bomb Iran?

[Chris_Xavier]

I vote that we, the United States, put as much ingenuity, capital, determination, and strength as we can muster into the development of an alternative energy source - which we then legislate into use throughout the military, industrial, and consumer spheres of our economy.

Instead of legislating the changes, why don't we just participate in the programs already set up? Recycle newsprint, cardboard, aluminum cans, plastic bottles, etc.

Buy hybrid vehicles, install solar panels and windmills in our homes to generate electricity.

We can legislate until our hearts' content but until we practice energy saving techniques it won't do any good.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Isn't this what the whole thing is all about?

If we're going to go all Genghis Khan on the world we should at least do it boldly instead of hiding our profiteering under the guise of trying to protect the world from evildoers.

Would love to see the United States "go Roman" on those it chose to go against in a force of arms.

 

[Netzach]

Instead of legislating the changes, why don't we just participate in the programs already set up? Recycle newsprint, cardboard, aluminum cans, plastic bottles, etc.

Buy hybrid vehicles, install solar panels and windmills in our homes to generate electricity.

We can legislate until our hearts' content but until we practice energy saving techniques it won't do any good.

Could we maybe get some of those tax incentives like the assholes with hummers?

 

[Netzach]

At least Caligula was entertaining. The Decisionator lost his entertainment value after the second pretzel.

LOL. (mental crush)
Sometimes you make me wish I were on the other side of the fence more seriously!

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Could we maybe get some of those tax incentives like the assholes with hummers?

Are there? Seriously?

 

[Netzach]

You have to be a business, but I'm a business.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/104601_hummer17.shtml

And it may be a closed loophole, pretty astounding though.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

You have to be a business, but I'm a business.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/104601_hummer17.shtml

And it may be a closed loophole, pretty astounding though.

Yeah.. that sorta sucks (crap, I hate agreeing with you instead of you agreeing with me ).

 

[JMohegan]

Instead of legislating the changes, why don't we just participate in the programs already set up? Recycle newsprint, cardboard, aluminum cans, plastic bottles, etc.

Buy hybrid vehicles, install solar panels and windmills in our homes to generate electricity.

We can legislate until our hearts' content but until we practice energy saving techniques it won't do any good.

When I suggested legislating alternative energy sources into use, I was referring to a series of Federal laws, such as: making it illegal to manufacture or import gas-powered engines after the year 20XX.

I am suggesting that we move beyond programs to encourage or provide incentive for the shift, and actually mandate the change.

 

[Netzach]

When I suggested legislating alternative energy sources into use, I was referring to a series of Federal laws, such as: making it illegal to manufacture or import gas-powered engines after the year 20XX.

I am suggesting that we move beyond programs to encourage or provide incentive for the shift, and actually mandate the change.

But but you'd be REGULATING something! We might turn into Cuba.


Actually I could get behind tax incentives if they were ever used for good and not evil. Not happening.

I blame everyone though, everyone wants and no one wants to pay. Then things slide into the Missisippi and people wring their hands.

We'll run out of air before fossil fuel at any rate, still burnin' coal.

 

[JMohegan]

But but you'd be REGULATING something! We might turn into Cuba.

Ha ha! Tell you what - As compensation, I'll buy you a decent cigar for that bear smoker scene if we do.

 

[Netzach]

Ha ha! Tell you what - As compensation, I'll buy you a decent cigar for that bear smoker scene if we do.

As long as someone else can smuggle me some backseam stockings, I'm in.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

When I suggested legislating alternative energy sources into use, I was referring to a series of Federal laws, such as: making it illegal to manufacture or import gas-powered engines after the year 20XX.

I am suggesting that we move beyond programs to encourage or provide incentive for the shift, and actually mandate the change.

Have you seen "Who Killed the Electric Car?" I don't think "big oil" will let that sort of legislation sail. If there becomes a market for those sorts of things, then you'll see the spread of such things as recharging stations or gas stations that sell hydrogen.


Hybrid vehicles are a good step in the right direction.


Tax credits are another good venue.. when they aren't abused. Plus alot of businesses are building "green" because they see the long term advantages of doing so.


Besides, I personally am against legislating anything that smacks of "social engineering" on the military and think that legislating something that could inhibit the military's fighting efficiency is poor policy making.

 

[JMohegan]

Hybrid vehicles are a good step in the right direction.

I agree, and I have one. Do you?

Besides, I personally am against legislating anything that smacks of "social engineering" on the military and think that legislating something that could inhibit the military's fighting efficiency is poor policy making.

Pentagon study says oil reliance strains military
Urges development of alternative fuels

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | May 1, 2007

WASHINGTON -- A new study ordered by the Pentagon warns that the rising cost and dwindling supply of oil -- the lifeblood of fighter jets, warships, and tanks -- will make the US military's ability to respond to hot spots around the world "unsustainable in the long term."

The study, produced by a defense consulting firm, concludes that all four branches of the military must "fundamentally transform" their assumptions about energy, including taking immediate steps toward fielding weapons systems and aircraft that run on alternative and renewable fuels. It is "imperative" that the Department of Defense "apply new energy technologies that address alternative supply sources and efficient consumption across all aspects of military operations," according to the report, which was provided to the Globe.

Weaning the military from fossil fuels quickly, however, would be a herculean task -- especially because the bulk of the US arsenal, the world's most advanced, is dependent on fossil fuels and many of those military systems have been designed to remain in service for at least several decades.

Moving to alternative energy sources on a large scale would "challenge some of the department's most deeply held assumptions, interests, and processes," the report acknowledges.

But Pentagon advisers believe the military's growing consumption of fossil fuels -- an increasingly expensive and scarce commodity -- leaves Pentagon leaders with little choice but to break with the past as soon as possible. Compared with World War II, according to the report, the military in Iraq and Afghanistan is using 16 times more fuel per soldier.

"We have to wake up," said Milton R. Copulos , National Defense Council Foundation president and an authority on the military's energy needs. "We are at the edge of a precipice and we have one foot over the edge. The only way to avoid going over is to move forward and move forward aggressively with initiatives to develop alternative fuels. Just cutting back won't work."

Click me for the source.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Good article but it sorta proves my point. The military is exploring using alternative fuel sources because it is in its best interests to do so. Jack up the taxes on gas at the pump and I guarantee you that people will be clamoring for more fuel efficient vehicles and/or more vehicles powered by alternative fuels.

Do I have a hybrid vehicle? No.. I don't. I am planning on buying either a Ford Escape hybrid or a Smart Car within the next year.

I do recycle and I do make use of solar energy whenever possible.

 

[Netzach]

I bus it. Can I get my 38 grand for *not* fucking up the world?

Ok, how about a free bus pass or something?


Or a wee trophy.

Or a punch on my "martyr" card?

 

[Chris_Xavier]

I bus it. Can I get my 38 grand for *not* fucking up the world?

Ok, how about a free bus pass or something?


Or a wee trophy.

Or a punch on my "martyr" card?

I would ride public transportation if we had any here.

 

[JMohegan]

Good article but it sorta proves my point. The military is exploring using alternative fuel sources because it is in its best interests to do so.

Yes, exactly - and I suggested mandating a shift to alternative sources for the same reason. Because I believe it is in the best interests of all of us, military included, from both an economic and national defense perspective.

It seems you & I have the same goal in mind, we just disagree on how to get there. Or rather - how to overcome the greed of both consumers and established industry alike.

Do I have a hybrid vehicle? No.. I don't. I am planning on buying either a Ford Escape hybrid or a Smart Car within the next year.

Ohhhh, the Smart Car is awesome! I test drove one just a few weeks ago.

They had the cars all lined up in different colors, and when the people got in and started driving it looked just like a ride at Disneyland.

The transmission takes a little getting used to, but otherwise it's really not a bad ride.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Yes, exactly - and I suggested mandating a shift to alternative sources for the same reason. Because I believe it is in the best interests of all of us, military included, from both an economic and national defense perspective.

It seems you & I have the same goal in mind, we just disagree on how to get there. Or rather - how to overcome the greed of both consumers and established industry alike.

Rather than mandate that industry do this or that by a certain date.. why not just tax the hell out of gas to the point where consumer demand drives industry that way?

The extra income would be used to offset tax credits for developing the technology and infrastructure to support it.

Ohhhh, the Smart Car is awesome! I test drove one just a few weeks ago.

They had the cars all lined up in different colors, and when the people got in and started driving it looked just like a ride at Disneyland.

The transmission takes a little getting used to, but otherwise it's really not a bad ride.

Smart Car USA is touring around the US - they will be in Nashville soon and I will go there to see and hopefully test drive one.

What was so off about the transmission?

 

[Netzach]

Rather than mandate that industry do this or that by a certain date.. why not just tax the hell out of gas to the point where consumer demand drives industry that way?

The extra income would be used to offset tax credits for developing the technology and infrastructure to support it.

So, schmuck making 15,000 a year at walmart 2 towns over, so sorry.

Construction company owner driving Hummer, well that bites, so here's 38 grand to fill your tank, bud. Maybe he'll be doing a carpool for his bricklayer?\

As someone who may hire others in her lifetime, it would rock if my pool of applicants were not limited to people within walk-bus radius and I could pay less than 25 an hour for them to do fulfillment part time and still get to me.

 

[JMohegan]

Rather than mandate that industry do this or that by a certain date.. why not just tax the hell out of gas to the point where consumer demand drives industry that way?

The extra income would be used to offset tax credits for developing the technology and infrastructure to support it.

"Tax the hell out of gas" at the pump, and the people who will suffer most will be those for whom transportation constitutes the largest percent of their budgets - i.e., those with the least spending power. That is not only an ethical point, but a practical objection as well.

But I am suggesting more than the replacement of gas-powered engines in automobiles. Factories, farms, shipping, air travel, etc. Transformation of the way we power everything.

"Tax the hell out of gas" across the board, and the effect on the economy will be most unfortunate. Prices would rise on everything, from the smallest loaf of bread on up, but wages and employment would fall. In fact, this is exactly the nightmare economic scenario we've been trying to avoid by struggling to keep oil flowing from the Middle East. It isn't just the fear of shortage that drives us; it's the fear of a crippling price.

Smart Car USA is touring around the US - they will be in Nashville soon and I will go there to see and hopefully test drive one.

What was so off about the transmission?

I drove an automatic, but it behaved sort of like a standard when stopped on a hill. Hard to explain, but not a big deal overall.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

You don't think that by artificially causing the price of gas to rise, it will force the development of cheap alternative fuel vehicles versus $400K for one? Encourage the development of mass transit systems?

I am by nature conservative but I think we as Americans are definitely spoiled. I am told that in Germany it costs $2500 to get a driver's license. Imagine the howl that would arise if the states suddenly enacted such rules.

 

[JMohegan]

You don't think that by artificially causing the price of gas to rise, it will force the development of cheap alternative fuel vehicles versus $400K for one? Encourage the development of mass transit systems?

Yes, but my point is that to raise the price high enough to really force those changes, the damage to the economy would be devastating.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Yes, but my point is that to raise the price high enough to really force those changes, the damage to the economy would be devastating.

I would agree with that.. if the price was suddenly jacked up to $5/gal but if done gradually, don't you think that the economy would have time to adapt?

 

[JMohegan]

I am by nature conservative but I think we as Americans are definitely spoiled. I am told that in Germany it costs $2500 to get a driver's license. Imagine the howl that would arise if the states suddenly enacted such rules.

Good point.

Know what else they have in Germany? Mandatory military service.

Yes, we're spoiled. But most of us are also shielded from immediate negative consequences resulting from the decisions and behavior of our political leaders. That fact has an enormous (and in my opinion, deleterious) impact on the way this country is run.

 

[JMohegan]

I would agree with that.. if the price was suddenly jacked up to $5/gal but if done gradually, don't you think that the economy would have time to adapt?

How much time do we have?

That was a rhetorical question, the answer to which I don't know.