1-Bombing on Loving Wives

[RocketGrunt]

I get that it's frustrating to have your 4.89 knocked down to 4.84 and losing a prime location in the toplist to pick up new readers. I really do. Complaining about it in a thread that was started about LW where most people struggle to make it to 4.0 from the overwhelming trolling there isn't gaining you much sympathy for your plight.

We got on this tangent because Lovecraft68 insisted on punching down on the people who complained that the ratings were being cooked. Those people he dismissed and insulted were and are correct, and the mountains of math needed to come in because he refused to back down when merely called on his self-centered bullshit.

The math and number quotes before that was because you and Pink Silk insisted on evidence when I mentioned that Erotic Couplings gets a lot of viewers. Which only needed to be a thing because you guys wouldn't accept "look at the fucking numbers, they are bigger." I men, if you'd stop being such an obstinate troll, we wouldn't have had to have any of these math digressions.

Truly, the fact that the viewership numbers on Erotic Couplings are higher than the viewership numbers on the Romance board is self evident, and the fact that I was challenged on this multiple times is legitimately insane.

This strikes me as too much of an absolute, which isn't the case at all.

The impact of a single outlier 1* on the overall average is entirely dependent on the number of data points (votes, in this case).

You have 500 votes? That 1* you just got is lost as a rounding error as the voting system only reports to two significant digits.

You have 35 votes? That 1*, while not fatal, certainly stings.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the ratings work. They are an average. This means that any vote below the current rating pulls the average down, and any rating above the current rating pulls the average up. If you're talking about toplists, every story has a rating above 4, which means that every vote between 1* and 4* is going to pull the rating down, the only question is how much. Every 5* vote pulls the rating up, but again the question is how much.

When you're at 4.89, a single 1* vote has more downward pull than thirty-six 5* votes has upward pull. That is why in a tug of war between the downvoters and the cheerleaders, the cheerleaders CANNOT WIN, and why ALL ratings of ALL highly popular works across the ENTIRE site have dropped over the last year. The trolls have figured out how to win, and they have won.

But yes, if you have 500 votes and an average of 4.89 (445 5*s and 55 4*s), and one person gives you a 1*, then the rating goes to 4.8822, which rounds to 4.88. One person still has the power to drop you one rung on the toplist ladder with a single click, even with 500 votes of overwhelmingly positive reviews. If instead ten people rushed in and gave you 5* reviews, then 455 5*s and 55 4*s is 4.8922, which still rounds to 4.89. And if both the 10 positive and 1 negative happened? Well, you now have 511 ratings with an average of 4.8845, which still rounds to 4.88. The troll still wins even if outnumbered by cheerleaders ten to one.

Ten people being positive couldn't get you even halfway there to moving you up, and one person being negative can immediately move you down, even right through the wave of support.

To put things in the harshest possible terms: knocking Lovecraft68's toplist entry from 4.84 to 4.83 would take 22 votes. He has overwhelmingly positive reviews and over fifteen thousand votes on a fourteen year old story with close to a million views and one troll could kick him out of the top one hundred in about 3 weeks. THAT is how shit this system is.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Or 22 people voting honestly instead of fluffing it.

 

[boogiefever]

Thank you, that's useful to know. I'm still learning with it all.

Xx

I read your story “Bike” and loved it. Gave it 5 stars and a review (pending). Keep up the good work! I know it kept me up

 

[designatedvictim]

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the ratings work. They are an average. This means that any vote below the current rating pulls the average down, and any rating above the current rating pulls the average up. If you're talking about toplists, every story has a rating above 4, which means that every vote between 1* and 4* is going to pull the rating down, the only question is how much. Every 5* vote pulls the rating up, but again the question is how much.

I hadn't intended to get into an argument about statistics today, but I think I already knew that much.

Given your scenario of a rating of 4.890000000 with 500 votes, the impact would be greatest at this edge condition.

I believe it would then take as many as 21 5* to pull the average up over 4.885.

Of course, if we start at a rating of 4.8940 it only takes 4 5* to negate the 1*s direct impact on a two-significant digit result.

My original point was that your assertion, while true enough in broad strokes, makes no allowance for numbers of votes.

 

[Ianus4]

However comprehensive, that is far too wordy when 'Hating Husbands' would do nicely.

If we are going to generalize from a smaller sample, let's generalize properly: let's call them 'instinct-driven spouses'. But a slightly more elegant and better approach (since it also fits with reconciliation stories) is to use 'cheating with consequences'.
The problem with such simplifications is that we also judge stories such as Before We Came Down or The Hidden Room. And these are just two examples from the past twelve months.

 

[26thNC]

When it comes to the LW 1-bombers, there is no "one size fits all" to describe the haters or the types of stories with monogamous wives they want.

One of my latest stories ("Fantasy Renewal") has a monogamous wife who merely delves into exhibitionism and light BDSM and bondage, discovering her new desire for her husband to spank her.

In my experience, people change over time, and some seek different stimulations. So, the story was to show how that might happen in a loving marriage and STILL remain monogamous. But "26thNC" is one of those dedicated haters who commented;

"Nasty, controlling bitch from hell."

So, I think some people receive their own pleasure out of just hating. They'll twist anything into a way they can hate it.

Lifestyle gots to give me a hater label, but I believe that I’m just honest about what I like and don’t like. I’ve rated some of Lifestyle’s stories very high, and praised him in the comments. I consider him one of LW’s better writers, who usually writes stories that I don’t care for. This one was a monogamous relationship, but I thought the BDSM, and exhibitionism elements of the story did not make her a loving wife. I don’t *1 bomb any story as I think anyone brave enough to post a story deserves at least a *2. I do, however, say exactly what I think about the story. I’ve only ever been a football player, soldier, and a nurse, so I’m obviously not nearly as intelligent , and eloquent as most of you authors. But one thing I can do is read, and I read a lot.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Lifestyle gots to give me a hater label,

You CLEARLY do not understand the nature of the category and are the subject of frequent posts and comments here due to the excrement you deposit on Authors.

 

[Britva415]

Erotic Couplings is not the worst category, by a long shot.

It's the only right category for many stories.

Every time this person says the category is rubbish, they're saying those stories are rubbish.

Maybe they feel that way about their EC stories. I ignored them long ago partly because they can't ever not project that onto other EC authors.

 

[Britva415]

So you're saying I should post my stories in a category that I know has an audience who won't enjoy the story? Do you also think I should be posting blow job stories into the anal category? Cause that's how stupid your logic is.

I'm not seeing their comment, but I imagine based on their comments in the past that what they really mean is that you should not write blowjob stories at all, and should only write anal.

Except we aren't talking about blowjobs.

 

[sirhugs]

We got on this tangent because Lovecraft68 insisted on punching down on the people who complained that the ratings were being cooked. Those people he dismissed and insulted were and are correct, and the mountains of math needed to come in because he refused to back down when merely called on his self-centered bullshit.

The math and number quotes before that was because you and Pink Silk insisted on evidence when I mentioned that Erotic Couplings gets a lot of viewers. Which only needed to be a thing because you guys wouldn't accept "look at the fucking numbers, they are bigger." I men, if you'd stop being such an obstinate troll, we wouldn't have had to have any of these math digressions.

Truly, the fact that the viewership numbers on Erotic Couplings are higher than the viewership numbers on the Romance board is self evident, and the fact that I was challenged on this multiple times is legitimately insane.



This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the ratings work. They are an average. This means that any vote below the current rating pulls the average down, and any rating above the current rating pulls the average up. If you're talking about toplists, every story has a rating above 4, which means that every vote between 1* and 4* is going to pull the rating down, the only question is how much. Every 5* vote pulls the rating up, but again the question is how much.

When you're at 4.89, a single 1* vote has more downward pull than thirty-six 5* votes has upward pull. That is why in a tug of war between the downvoters and the cheerleaders, the cheerleaders CANNOT WIN, and why ALL ratings of ALL highly popular works across the ENTIRE site have dropped over the last year. The trolls have figured out how to win, and they have won.

But yes, if you have 500 votes and an average of 4.89 (445 5*s and 55 4*s), and one person gives you a 1*, then the rating goes to 4.8822, which rounds to 4.88. One person still has the power to drop you one rung on the toplist ladder with a single click, even with 500 votes of overwhelmingly positive reviews. If instead ten people rushed in and gave you 5* reviews, then 455 5*s and 55 4*s is 4.8922, which still rounds to 4.89. And if both the 10 positive and 1 negative happened? Well, you now have 511 ratings with an average of 4.8845, which still rounds to 4.88. The troll still wins even if outnumbered by cheerleaders ten to one.

Ten people being positive couldn't get you even halfway there to moving you up, and one person being negative can immediately move you down, even right through the wave of support.

To put things in the harshest possible terms: knocking Lovecraft68's toplist entry from 4.84 to 4.83 would take 22 votes. He has overwhelmingly positive reviews and over fifteen thousand votes on a fourteen year old story with close to a million views and one troll could kick him out of the top one hundred in about 3 weeks. THAT is how shit this system is.

Have you noticed th a t no one agrees with you and you as gree with no one?

Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves. You seem to just be here to harsh everybody's mellow.
And yeah, I m a ke a lot of typos. You try posting with peripheral neuropathy due to aggressive chemo then I'll maybe care about your opinion of my typing.until then I've just put you on ignore.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Lifestyle gots to give me a hater label, but I believe that I’m just honest about what I like and don’t like. I’ve rated some of Lifestyle’s stories very high, and praised him in the comments. I consider him one of LW’s better writers, who usually writes stories that I don’t care for. This one was a monogamous relationship, but I thought the BDSM, and exhibitionism elements of the story did not make her a loving wife. I don’t *1 bomb any story as I think anyone brave enough to post a story deserves at least a *2. I do, however, say exactly what I think about the story. I’ve only ever been a football player, soldier, and a nurse, so I’m obviously not nearly as intelligent , and eloquent as most of you authors. But one thing I can do is read, and I read a lot.

We can't see what rating you give a story, and only know if you tell us in your comment. So, it's your usually hateful comments which are usually NOT specific as to why you don't like the story, which to us authors drive other potential readers away. EDIT: For example, your comment on "Fantasy Renewal" was; "Nasty, controlling bitch from hell." You sound like the perfect example of a misogynist which other authors here complain about.

When you leave a comment, it shows up in the list of latest comments for that category. And negative ones tell others to avoid the story.

And why should her BDSM and exhibitionism (which her husband encouraged and approved) make her a "not loving wife"?

(BTW: You haven't commented on "A Band of Sisters and Brothers" yet. If you're a soldier and nurse, let's see if YOU can't pick up on her motivations )

 

[RejectReality]

We got on this tangent because Lovecraft68 insisted on punching down on the people who complained that the ratings were being cooked. Those people he dismissed and insulted were and are correct, and the mountains of math needed to come in because he refused to back down when merely called on his self-centered bullshit.

The math and number quotes before that was because you and Pink Silk insisted on evidence when I mentioned that Erotic Couplings gets a lot of viewers. Which only needed to be a thing because you guys wouldn't accept "look at the fucking numbers, they are bigger." I men, if you'd stop being such an obstinate troll, we wouldn't have had to have any of these math digressions.

Truly, the fact that the viewership numbers on Erotic Couplings are higher than the viewership numbers on the Romance board is self evident, and the fact that I was challenged on this multiple times is legitimately insane.

And I let it go once you admitted that you wouldn't recommend EC because it's a complete crapshoot, and that you'll get stronger engagement in a targeted category when one is appropriate. My whole problem is that you were talking EC up to the point it sounded like you were recommending it over anything that got less cumulative daily views, which is ridiculous.

I do maintain that you're giving WAY too much deference to the raw view numbers, when those of us who have a body of experience in a variety of categories know that they simply do not translate into readers or engagement. I've got a particular insight where it comes to EC vs. Mature, because I posted all my Milf stories in EC at first. Laurel moved one to Mature and my numbers tripled over what I'd been getting in EC.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

So you're saying I should post my stories in a category that I know has an audience who won't enjoy the story? Do you also think I should be posting blow job stories into the anal category? Cause that's how stupid your logic is.

Okay, now you;re just being stupid. I already showed you the math. You know exactly how sound my stance is. You;re just being a baby, so go whaaa to someone else. See ya.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

And I let it go once you admitted that you wouldn't recommend EC because it's a complete crapshoot, and that you'll get stronger engagement in a targeted category when one is appropriate. My whole problem is that you were talking EC up to the point it sounded like you were recommending it over anything that got less cumulative daily views, which is ridiculous.

Precisely. RG originally claimed that EC was the #3 category for exposure. A bunch of us called that out, #3? Uhh, no. Then RG starts spewing numbers (which for all that I know could be lies to back up some assinine claim that EC gets lots of traffic. It's complete baloney.

What it is is someone made a claim, got called out on it, and can't admit that maybe they are wrong. Instead have to waste hours of the day typing up hundreds of hundreds of words rebutting every counterpoint, to slam down any critique of their claim and therefore prove how smart they are. It's so fucking silly.

I have four stories in EC. They are my four worst viewed stories. Three of them are part of a series. The fourth (and final) story in that series (the poorest written of the four) is in E/V. It smashes the other three in long term traffic (and score btw), despite being the newest.
My L&T (!!!) story CRUSHES all of my EC stories despite being newer.
My Romance novel CRUSHES all of my EC stories for traffic despite being newer.
My two N/N stories CRUSH all of my EC stories for traffic despite being newer. One of them CRUSHES ALL FOUR COMBINED (!!) despite being my newest story only four months old.

EC stories don't have much time in the limelight due to the volume of submissions. So you have to rely on long term traffic. If you post in anal, anal fans will search the archive and might find your story. You will get some long term traffic from this. If you post in first time, virgin fans will search the archives and give you a little traffic. BDSM, Fetish, same deal. Obviously the two monsters, Incest and LW, same deal. If you post in EC, guaranteed no one is waking up and saying, "hrmm, let's dig through the archives today for a good vanilla story." The long term traffic is dead, so you are stuck with general tag searches, 'you might also like' and your own fan following. But you get all of those in ANY category.

The veteran writers here all know that EC is probably the last place that you want to post your story if you want it to be seen. If your story absolutely cannot fit anywhere else, that is the only time that EC should be considered.

 

[OddLove]

Okay, now you;re just being stupid. I already showed you the math. You know exactly how sound my stance is. You;re just being a baby, so go whaaa to someone else. See ya.

I'm being absolutely serious. But if you need to cop out with a "You're not serious" defense so you can run away, be my guest. I look forward to it.

But in the meantime...

You're the one telling me that I should publish romantic Wife/Husband stories, Consensual/Happy Cuckoldry stories, Cheating Partner Stories, Reluctant/Unhappy Cuckoldry stories, and Swinger stories all into the Loving Wives category despite that category being the "BTB and RAAC" category.

Because despite all the stories I've mentioned accurately belonging in Erotic Couples, Romance, Fetish, Group Sex, or Reluctant/Non-Consent, etc... I should publish them in Loving Wives instead because it has a bigger audience.

That logic leads to "I should post my Non-Human Zombie orgy story in Group Sex because it's audience is bigger" and "I'll just publish my Mind Control Hypnosis story in Reluctant/Non-Consent because it has three times more readers."

You're the one holding and defending that position.

 

[RocketGrunt]

Precisely. RG originally claimed that EC was the #3 category for exposure. A bunch of us called that out, #3? Uhh, no. Then RG starts spewing numbers (which for all that I know could be lies to back up some assinine claim that EC gets lots of traffic. It's complete baloney.

Holy shit, they are public numbers on this site. All you had to do was just click on the new stories category and see that all the numbers were just... displayed.

Peddle your bullshit accusations elsewhere. How the fuck would I be lying about numbers that were in plain view for you, me, and everyone else on the thread? You're too fucking lazy to click on the story categories and see that you're wrong, but you're willing to accuse me of being a liar? Fuck you.

And it's not like the days I was reporting were weird or cherrypicked. If you look at Romance right now there are 51 stories posted between 02/02 and 02/07 and 21 of them haven't hit a thousand views (and 4 more have only just passed a thousand views so they aren't even at 1.1k). Obviously I'm excluding 08/02 from discussion because those stories have only been up for an hour. The fact that Romance has bad numbers is something you could confirm at any fucking time by just opening the category and looking at the numbers. And you had the fucking gall to tell us all that it was a high readership category because "everyone knows it."

Just, how dare you? How dare you even show your face in this thread and cast aspersions after you were so thoroughly fucking humiliated by being shown to be such an ignorant and incurious fool?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Fuck you.

Pfft. Fuck you too. You must be new here and don't know who you're talking to. ; )

 

[sirhugs]

I'm being absolutely serious. But if you need to cop out with a "You're not serious" defense so you can run away, be my guest. I look forward to it.

But in the meantime...

You're the one telling me that I should publish romantic Wife/Husband stories, Consensual/Happy Cuckoldry stories, Cheating Partner Stories, Reluctant/Unhappy Cuckoldry stories, and Swinger stories all into the Loving Wives category despite that category being the "BTB and RAAC" category.

Because despite all the stories I've mentioned accurately belonging in Erotic Couples, Romance, Fetish, Group Sex, or Reluctant/Non-Consent, etc... I should publish them in Loving Wives instead because it has a bigger audience.

That logic leads to "I should post my Non-Human Zombie orgy story in Group Sex because it's audience is bigger" and "I'll just publish my Mind Control Hypnosis story in Reluctant/Non-Consent because it has three times more readers."

You're the one holding and defending that position.

You wrote a zombie orgy story? Cool.

 

[consistentlyrepudiated]

The problem with such simplifications is that we also judge stories such as Before We Came Down or The Hidden Room. And these are just two examples from the past twelve months.

I followed your link and started reading The Hidden Room. Something felt off right away. I can’t say exactly what, but the pacing and phrasing were odd enough that I ran it through GPTZero, and it came back as 100% AI.

Now, I’m not saying it is AI, but I also don’t believe it just slipped through their scanner. For whatever reason, the mods chose to look the other way, which makes one wonder how neutral that whole process really is.

 

[OddLove]

I followed your link and started reading The Hidden Room. Something felt off right away. I can’t say exactly what, but the pacing and phrasing were odd enough that I ran it through GPTZero, and it came back as 100% AI.

Now, I’m not saying it is AI, but I also don’t believe it just slipped through their scanner. For whatever reason, the mods chose to look the other way, which makes one wonder how neutral that whole process really is.

Don't feed other peoples writing into AI tools.

 

[lovecraft68]

You're the one telling me that I should publish romantic Wife/Husband stories, Consensual/Happy Cuckoldry stories, Cheating Partner Stories, Reluctant/Unhappy Cuckoldry stories, and Swinger stories all into the Loving Wives category despite that category being the "BTB and RAAC" category.

You should do this for two reasons
1-it is where those stories did, do, and always will belong, in the category for extra marital action as decried by the site itself
2-by not doing that you're letting the creeps over there tell you what to do and for what? Oh, no, I got a low score on a free site?

BTW, they're mostly a BTB category RAAC stories get abused too. Only way to win there is write a nasty BTB or have a boring vanilla story featuring an amazing incredible flawless man and his adoring virtuous 1950's wife.

 

[consistentlyrepudiated]

Don't feed other peoples writing into AI tools.

Are you talking to me or the mods?

You don't even see the irony, do you?

 

[consistentlyrepudiated]

I hadn't intended to get into an argument about statistics today, but I think I already knew that much.

Given your scenario of a rating of 4.890000000 with 500 votes, the impact would be greatest at this edge condition.

I believe it would then take as many as 21 5* to pull the average up over 4.885.

Of course, if we start at a rating of 4.8940 it only takes 4 5* to negate the 1*s direct impact on a two-significant digit result.

My original point was that your assertion, while true enough in broad strokes, makes no allowance for numbers of votes.

Like many, when I first came here, I naturally went to check the top lists. My take is that without accounting for the readers who drop off, the picture these lists provide is a bit misleading.

I think it's no secret that most people who open a story don’t finish it, for any number of reasons, and therefore, they don't vote or comment. Those who do are the ones who make it to the end and probably enjoyed it; otherwise, they wouldn’t have invested the time.

I don’t know whether those finishers make up a sixth, a fifth, or a quarter of the total readership, but I assume that the longer the story, the smaller that group becomes. Either way, it’s still just a fraction.

If readers were incentivized in some way to read at least the first thousand words and then vote or leave a brief note explaining why they stopped, we’d get a far more representative picture of readership as a whole, rather than just a segment.

Personally, one of the first things that draws me in or turns me away is the rendering, the narrator’s voice. If it doesn’t work for me, I move on. The same goes for dialogue; if it feels flat or contrived, I back away. That doesn’t mean the story is bad; it just means it isn’t for me. I assume I’m not alone in this, and there’s no reason to think other readers don’t form different clusters with different tastes.

As I see it, the top lists represent an internal ranking within one particular subset of readers. It may be the largest subset, but it is still just a subset.

 

[Ianus4]

I would still encourage everyone to use tags appropriately and abundantly. Ratings and top list rankings can always be influenced by malicious users, but the use of tags is entirely up to the author. I think this is particularly important in LW, but it is also important in other categories. (I regularly see stories in LW and even in the Fetish category without tags, even though both are a mixed bag). When someone clicks on a story, they should immediately see what they're dealing with. BTB-maniacs should be able to see right away that it's a cuck, hotwife, or reconciliation story. They may still bomb you, but if it keeps half of the bombers away, it's worth it.
I think tags are a longer-term investment. They are already visible when you open the story, but who knows, maybe in a future major site update, they will be available even on a story list. Or maybe they'll introduce a more advanced include/exclude search function later. Let the story be found by those who are looking for it, but keep away those who might have a problem with it.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Don't feed other peoples writing into AI tools.

A while back, someone fed some of my stories into AI, for some sort of analysis, because they liked my style of writing and wanted to learn from it. I am sure they meant no harm, and they apologized when I objected. But the fact is, it did feel like a violation.