A Challenge And A Mission Statement

[KillerMuffin]

I do believe that IB missed the point of the site.

Literotica is not an Ezine, it's a story archival site. As such, it has no editorial standards beyond the minimal formatting things. I do understand that she's getting tougher about what she considers formatted correctly enough to put up. yay!

So yes, you're in the wrong place and, moreover, you obviously already knew it.

Literotica is for everyone who ever wanted to share their sexual fantasies with other people. Not necessarily their writing skills.

You really should so some research before you open your mouth and insert your foot.

Unlike the average writer here, I am a professional writer and editor. I pay taxes on these activities, don'tcha know. I still prefer Lit to erotic zines when I write my smut. It's the daily dose of feedback. I'm so addicted that it's pathetic.

 

[IrresistibleBeauty]

To Mabeuse and Chele..THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR!

Yes! Thank you! I am so happy I am getting criticism! Finally! I never said my work was perfect, but I tried, and you guys finally told me where I am screwing up and maybe I can improve it on a rewrite.

I originally sent it as an e-mail, so I know it is flawed, hurried, and maybe once or twice thoroughly read. But I did want to write something erotic, and as everything else here, it is hit or miss. And or the few hours I was writing it, I was into it.

But that is EXACTLY what I was hoping for when I posted it--constructive criticism. I did not edit it from e-mail to posting it here, hoping it in a raw form would get some good as well as mediocre reviews. I posted it without reading many stories here for a reason, because I did not want to compare just yet my work with others.

That failed. After I posted and read others, I did feel I at least tried things not commonly found here, and in at least that effort I do feel I deserve a pat on the back.

But your criticism is excellent. I wanted to try repetition, and it failed, and that is OK. I wanted to write a run-on sentence a la Joyce, and maybe it didn't click with you, but that is OK. I will work on these things. Gaping holes in plot, I can work on that. All these things were things I hoped I would get. I will look closer at my use of tense.

But THIS is why I put the challenge to you all, because THIS is what I wanted--full-blown criticism! THIS is what I wanted all along, not just having the story posted--sorry, I can't consider this "publishing"--but having it edited, proofread, analyzed, sifted, chopped up, inhaled, and in the end criticized, for bad, good, or other.

So I will continue to post here, knowing there are a handful out there that DO think like me, that ARE eager to offer criticism. Truth be told, if there were more of this, there would only be maybe 5% of the stories you see here, but they would be damn good.

I didn't think my story was top 5% material--maybe top 20%, kudos for effort, and I expected a long list of things to correct.

Now you gave them to me--I had to get them from you, making you kick and scream in the process, but dammit, I got 'em.

And if I ruffled feathers, well, good! Complacency is the worst trait in an artist. I hope I irritated you, and I hope to keep on irritating you, because the challenge remains. I was hoping this place could be a mecca for creative writing--it still can be, but only if we are able to give and receive criticism like this.

Again, thank you, and you will see me more in the future!

Love,
Olivia.

 

[IrresistibleBeauty]

You too, English...

I read your feedback, and I thank you too for it.

I think, gathering everyone's thoughts, it's ok, but needed quite a bit of work before i sent it in. Some nice ideas, some bad ideas, i this were a high school paper I might get a B or B-. Not the 4.74 or whatever I have in Literotica.

THERE! THAT is what a site like this should be!

 

[Gaucho]

Not the 4.74 or whatever I have in Literotica.

4.74!!!!!!!!!

Great googly moogly!

I have trouble getting a '4' for my stuff.

 

[English Lady]

just a thought...

But if all you wanted Irrisitable was some constructive critiscism on your work why didn't you just ask for it?

 

[IrresistibleBeauty]

Who would I have asked?

Sometimes you need to just yell for help, as opposed to asking individuals, one by one, until you find the right one. Making this challenge did what I hoped for--calamity. And people ran to this and put their 2 cents worth in, just as I hoped.

Besides, English, how else would I have gotten you and others to email me real criticism?

 

[English Lady]

welll you could have started a thread here sking for feedback and we'd have given you some feedback*L* you don't have to get me wound up to get me to critque a story for you.

Also there are lots of critics here who don't pull their punches when posting critiscism(pointedly doesn't look at DrM ) So you know there was a way to get osme feedback without insulting the whole population of lit authors...

..though i guess that wouldn't have been as much fun would it?*L*

 

[SexyChele]

IB, you are welcome. However, I am a bit confused by your desire to see calamity here. This forum is set up for feedback, that's why it is here. I know that I have asked for feedback before and have responded to others who have posted. I don't respond to all, simply for the matter of time and the fact that not all story genres appeal to me.

I do realize there are some who will praise anything. I don't subscribe to that. I do try to temper my comments, because I do know that I can speak harshly when I don't mean to. But if I see something that I feel needs to be commented on, I do it.

A simple request for feedback is really all that is needed. There are people here who will gladly read work before it is submitted, if one feels it is needed. For the most part, people here try to help each other out. You may have accomplished what you thought you set out to do, but at what cost? Do you wish others to continue to provide you with feedback? Then it might be best to think about which method you employ to get the feedback you want.

Good luck to you on your future endeavors.

 

[gauchecritic]

The gauche point of view

You want people to be original, off the wall, with quirky, knowable characters? And you want them (as you do) to write like joyce and steinbeck and hemingway?

Well you can be Original OR Derivative there is no and.

(Oops started and finished sentences with a conjuctive there didn't I?)

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I understand it joyce, hemingway et, al. didn't write erotica, did they? You don't call a plumber when you need an electrician.

As far as pushing envelopes goes, well, I've noticed this in art(music, literature, art whatever): some people think they are avante gard (sp) when they are merely amateur, some are hopeless when they are learned (accent on the second e).

For example; the vocalist (couldn't bring myself to use the word singer) in one of my sons' "bands" thinks he is 'pushing the envelope' by making weird sounds with the p.a, he's pushing nothing but his ego because he has absolutely no training in his art.

Critically acclaimed 'artists' such as Tracy Emin and Damien Hurst both had 'classical' training in art but wouldn't know a piece of art if it covered itself in flour and baked itself for 20 of your earth minutes then presented itself with the word 'art' picked out in raisins.

Who is to say if either of these examples are worthy (your word) I certainly wouldn't call either of them that, but some do.

That's what Lit is about.

I was going to finish with oddities of natural talent, or those writers with only basic formal training (GCSE et,c.) but a vast wealth of reading and experience behind them, but then I'd embroil myself in promoting my own talents and those of a very decent number of authors here and I'm going to.

Like someone else said (apologies for non-research here) I never had piles of poetry tucked away either, but in my many years I have read lots of authors, experienced many, many things (not any of 'worth' mindst) and in the very small amount of criticism that I have ever sought, I have often been thoroughly pleased to find that I have been likened to many authors whom I admire without any conscious effort at all on my part to imitate.

So I suppose my point is, if you have to work that hard at being 'like' someone else (even down to desiring it) then you're doing it wrong, and it will show.

That's me and I'm

Gauche

 

[Guest]

Here's what happened when I tried to read IrresisibleBeauty's story:

"My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand" <thinks> - This is pretentious, self-conscious, overanxious, pompous, pseudo-epic crap. Back button after one sentence. Sorry, I don't have time for this. Next.

 

[DarlingNikki]

Well to be fair, Josh, she appears to have prefaced her story with a quote from the Bible.

IB - this is the Feedback branch. If you had glanced at the first page of posts, you would know you could request feedback and it would be given to you. I've given feedback and I've gotten som, and what I got was very helpful. You certainly did get feedback this way, but you didn't make any friends doing it. Will you ever get feedback again? Well, maybe. But maybe not.

 

[Whispersecret]

Whispersecret - my post was in response to the above. She asked to be "called on it." Sure, I wish I could have done it more gracefully, but I guess I am not that good of a writer yet. I also agree with you and Dr. Mabeuse, I just didn't like her tone.

Is that "first 500 words" thread of yours still around and are you still willing to do it? I AM here to improve my writing.

No worries. I was just spouting off my opinions about many of the issues brought up.

It's hard not to sound high-handed, when you're giving someone their comeuppance. That's always when I go out of my way to make sure I don't sound snotty. You're already feeding them a bunch of stuff they won't like, no point in pouring on attitude to boot. That's a sure way to guarantee they won't listen to a word.

Yes, here are some links:

Sign up here for 500 word critiques

The "500 Word" Critiques and Discussion

 

[DarlingNikki]

Thanks, Whispersecret! I have posted to your 500 words thread -whenever you get a chance. Be brutal! Seriously...

Thanks again.

 

[NoJo]

Well to be fair, Josh, she appears to have prefaced her story with a quote from the Bible.

Song of Solomon, the only erotica you can find in the KJ Bible. Unless you're into begatting.

PS. Josh's ex wife used to quote the next two verses to him. Which could explain his venom.

 

[IrresistibleBeauty]

Responding to a trite statement made by Gauche

Gauche reminded me that,

"Well you can be Original OR Derivative there is no and. "

Well, would you thus call Toni Morrison, who won the Nobel Prize for Literature a few years ago, as DERIVATIVE of Faulkner? Or would you say she allowed his work to influence her and that influence shows in her work?

Would you call Douglas Coupland, who some might argue was at one time THE voice of Gen-X, DERIVATIVE of Salinger? Salinger is the heaviest influence on Coupland's work--does that make him completely unoriginal?

Would you call Tom Clancy derivative because of he intricate detail, not unlike Tolstoy or Hugo?

Admittedly, Gauche is writing within a sight where everything posted is NEITHER original NOR derivative. Forgive me for at least trying to show influences other than Swank Magazine. If given a choice between the two, I would much rather be DERIVATIVE--it would at least show I have read books without pictures.

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: Responding to a trite statement made by Gauche

Admittedly, Gauche is writing within a sight where everything posted is NEITHER original NOR derivative. Forgive me for at least trying to show influences other than Swank Magazine. If given a choice between the two, I would much rather be DERIVATIVE--it would at least show I have read books without pictures.

sight?

Books WITHOUT pictures eh? I've heard of the concept but never thought it would catch on.

Not angry just,

Gauche (or possibly too subtle by far)

 

[MagicFingers]

Great American Novel

You said no one has come up with an original idea or definitive opening paragraph. I think I have. How does this grab your interest?


Sherman and Sherman
Only For Women


"Laura and Jennifer here with our show tonight about female orgasms."

"I'm Laura and I'm a sex therapist.
My sister Jen is a medical doctor."
"Welcome studio guests, to our exciting show we have for you tonight."


"We'll have expert guests and discussions with our audience on what turns them on enough to get them off, how long it takes, and how many times they can do it at once."


"What turns you on, ladies? The right man, a sexy smell, a body rub, a fancy dinner out?

Do you have special techniques that always work? Do you use toys, clothing, or a special setting to make it good for you?
How many of you have a clitoral and/or a "G" spot orgasm? Can you cum without anyone even touching these areas? How many of you are multi-orgasmic? That is, can you have multiple orgasms or a seemingly continuous orgasm that lasts for a long time?


We'll be exploring these and other areas relating to female orgasms tonight. Later, we will have a question and answer period and will attempt to answer all your concerns."

This story is done like a screenplay, but easily readable. Cumming soon to a "New Story" posting near you.
MagicFingers

 

[MagicFingers]

Voting

4.74!!!!!!!!!

Great googly moogly!

I have trouble getting a '4' for my stuff.

I'd be happy with a 4.0 to 4.5 also. However, I believe there is a flaw in the voting. With only 5 selections, often an 80% is too low and a 100% is way too high. We need 10 buttons so we can give people the 90% "A-" they deserve.
Are you listening, Literotica?
MagicFingers

 

[English Lady]

I agree magic fingers, there needs to be a 10 point system!