A dilemma I need some advice on

[MajorRewrite]

Somebody posted a sequel to one of my LW stories, and someone else posted a reboot/rewrite of the same story.

I thought both were rubbish. They twisted a fun sex fantasy into moralizing revenge crap.

It’s like someone who swims in your pool without permission. Inevitably they pee in it.

 

[lovecraft68]

. They twisted a fun sex fantasy into moralizing revenge crap.

Moralizing revenge? In LW? The hell you say!

Sad that's what they get out of a fun story.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Moralizing revenge? In LW? The hell you say!

Sad that's what they get out of a fun story.

I think they enjoyed torturing my characters.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

Somebody posted a sequel to one of my LW stories, and someone else posted a reboot/rewrite of the same story.

I thought both were rubbish. They twisted a fun sex fantasy into moralizing revenge crap.

It’s like someone who swims in your pool without permission. Inevitably they pee in it.

OH NO! You need to get WAY more upset! Depending on who you ask, these people have metaphorically raped you, and you should throw a huge shit fit and have their work banned.

Oh, wait... I take all that back. You seem to be handling this quite well, and their nonsense doesn't seem to be bothering you too much. Amazing.

Bravo sir.

(for the record, it is well within your rights to have their work banned, and I wouldn't hold it against you if you did. But it seems like you've realized that they haven't really hurt you, and I do actually applaud that mentality)

 

[M_K_Babalon]

He's asking for an opinion. I gave mine, you gave yours. Ya dig?

Uh-huh, we're doing the things, we are.

 

[drobert44]

OH NO! You need to get WAY more upset! Depending on who you ask, these people have metaphorically raped you, and you should throw a huge shit fit and have their work banned.

Oh, wait... I take all that back. You seem to be handling this quite well, and their nonsense doesn't seem to be bothering you too much. Amazing.

Bravo sir.

(for the record, it is well within your rights to have their work banned, and I wouldn't hold it against you if you did. But it seems like you've realized that they haven't really hurt you, and I do actually applaud that mentality)

To hell with them, be a Stoic.

 

[lovecraft68]

(for the record, it is well within your rights to have their work banned, and I wouldn't hold it against you if you did. But it seems like you've realized that they haven't really hurt you, and I do actually applaud that mentality)

I wish the author of that February Sucks story would have taken this approach, There's dozens of 'sequels' to it most of which took his RAAC ending and turning into various levels of BTB because all those authors claim they know how his story should have ended.

The main reason I did decide to green light the person wanting to post his sequel to my story is although I'm not sold on his portrayal of one of the characters, he is being faithful to the original, and keeping it a story about a young couple's first days as friends turned lovers. If he were blatantly shitting on it, that would be a no-go

The fact he sent me the finished product a opposed to 'I want to write a sequel" and look for permission without me know what he was going to do, made me feel better as well.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Murray refused to do prior sequels, he's in it now for a check and it shows, guy is washed.

The thing about Ghostbusters is that, while the central concept is neat and all, I've always felt like it was a film that succeeded on having funny people together that sparked something. It could have been about anything. It's a bit of a lighting in a bottle scenario. It certainly doesn't help that there's not a lot further you can go than 'Ghostbuster bust more ghosts again'. Although I haven't seen the cartoons since I was very young, it probably works more as a series where you can do a kooky 'ghost of the week' episode every week, than try and make every movie an event.

The fifth book soured the series for me. So Long was how it should have ended.

Yeah, I reread the series recently and, while I always felt as a child that So Long was weird, the prose really made me laugh in several places in ways I hadn't remembered. Mostly Harmless was just weak and pointless overall.

Coming back to my original post, I guess original creators stuff up their own series sometimes but it's theirs to ruin.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I wish the author of that February Sucks story would have taken this approach, There's dozens of 'sequels' to it most of which took his RAAC ending and turning into various levels of BTB because all those authors claim they know how his story should have ended.

Eh. If you go back through the sequels/rewrites and only look at the ones that specifically say they sought and received his permission, there are a lot of BTBs in there. On top of that, he’s taken a number of stories from other authors and made sequels/rewrites that turned BTBs to RAACs (or consequences or whatever) and vice versa. I’d also add that, in at least one case, he reached out to an author, didn’t get a reply, and went ahead with a sequel anyways.

 

[lovecraft68]

Eh. If you go back through the sequels/rewrites and only look at the ones that specifically say they sought and received his permission, there are a lot of BTBs in there. On top of that, he’s taken a number of stories from other authors and made sequels/rewrites that turned BTBs to RAACs (or consequences or whatever) and vice versa. I’d also add that, in at least one case, he reached out to an author, didn’t get a reply, and went ahead with a sequel anyways.

And that's equally wrong, especially because a lot of these stories aren't so much sequels as rewrites, the "This is how it should have gone."

Let's be honest, the difference between LW and any other category, is the reason for the rewrite is the readers there, you included, cannot stomach the concept, even in a fictional work, of a woman getting away with cheating. It has little to do with story and everything to do with fragile male ego and personal views of morality-which btw in real life I have as low opinion of cheating as anyone, whether its a man or a woman, but this isn't reality, its a fetish of its own- There is anger behind the desire to 'make things right' sparked by CMI.

In my case, and most cases around the site, the desire to write a sequel is they really liked the original and want more, so its based on a positive reaction, not spite writing because something offended their sensibilities.

If I did a rewrite of every story here that offended me personally, I'd have never written anything original. But being a sane person, I simply shrug, say "Meh, wasn't my thing," and wander off. I have no desire to correct something based on personal opinion.

 

[Plathfan]

Have you considered the possibility that this could spark a trend of sequels to your works, some of which may not have your approval?

Spooky music...

 

[NoTalentHack]

And that's equally wrong, especially because a lot of these stories aren't so much sequels as rewrites, the "This is how it should have gone."

I don't disagree with that. However, given that most of the first few were both by friends of GA and did exactly that (cutting in somewhere in the middle of the story and taking the scenario from that point), that's pretty unavoidable at this point.

Let's be honest, the difference between LW and any other category, is the reason for the rewrite is the readers there, you included, cannot stomach the concept, even in a fictional work, of a woman getting away with cheating. It has little to do with story and everything to do with fragile male ego and personal views of morality-which btw in real life I have as low opinion of cheating as anyone, whether its a man or a woman, but this isn't reality, its a fetish of its own- There is anger behind the desire to 'make things right' sparked by CMI.

That's not the only difference between LW and the other categories; the bigger one, in my opinion, is that it's one of the few categories where doing a "okay, but what if they didn't, instead?" story makes sense. "What if bro and sis didn't fuck?" wouldn't make sense in I/T, for example.

There are folks there that have an inherent hatred of cheating even as a fictional device; I'm not one of them. I do have stories where cheaters get away with cheating, for different values of "getting away." The problem with those stories, for me, is that infidelity isn't one of my kinks, so I don't want to write erotic stories about them. Unless there's an interesting story hook for me to explore (for example, a woman who'd cheating to "save" a broken marriage, or a woman who spent several decades married while cheating and never gets caught intervening with a young woman before she cheats the first time), I mostly give them a pass.

For me, it's fun to explore why people do what they do and how they react when they find out things they believed were true aren't. When I wrote my sequel to February Sucks, it was 100% me trying to square a particular circle. FS is technically well-written and gripping, but the characterization of everyone in it seems off; it all seemed like nightmare logic. So, working off the fact that FS is told in FP POV by the husband, I went from there and sort of unraveled it in a series of therapy sessions, with the idea being that FS was him relating the events to his therapist, and the therapist going, "hey, have you considered the possibility that maybe you're having a trauma response to literally everyone in your life gaslighting you into trying to accept this thing?"

Like I wrote in the afterword,

Any two or three things that happen in the original story would be plausible together: A famous person sweeps your wife off her feet AND it's in public. Your wife cheats on you AND she doesn't seem sorry afterwards AND a family friend tells you to suck it up and stay together for the kids. Either of those works as a reasonably realistic story. But if you take all of those and then lump on the fifteen or twenty other things that happen in the original story, it starts to feel like a nightmare. All it's missing are having all of your teeth falling out and having to take your final exam naked after missing all your classes for the semester.

So I wanted to find a reason that all of those things could at least conceivably happen in a realistic way. And the answer to that, the one I came up with, was simple: 90% of the things in the story happen because one pivotal character is a delusional narcissist. The other 10% are either because one character is a meddling busybody with a superiority complex or another is a predatory asshole that hits on married women. The strings of ANDs get turned into two ANDs and a BECAUSE. "A football player beds a man's wife AND his life becomes miserable BECAUSE she's a narcissist that surrounds their family with enablers AND also because his only source of outside help beyond that circle is an old-fashioned busybody with a superiority complex."

In my case, and most cases around the site, the desire to write a sequel is they really liked the original and want more, so its based on a positive reaction, not spite writing because something offended their sensibilities.

I mean, it's also that the stories in LW largely are pretty "closed." Someone cheats > other person finds out > confrontation > resolution > some form of moving on. It's rare that a story like that lends itself to extension, unless the story ends a very short time after that denouement. Compare that to most stories on the site, where, unless there's a long-term HEA written into it, there are plenty of places to go afterwards. "Wife cheats > husband finds out > they divorce > he remarries" is a pretty closed loop. "Guy meets girl > girl likes guy > they fuck > story ends" leaves a of wiggle room for future storylines. It's why most of my stories outside LW get a "I want more," whereas most of my stories in LW (with the exception of the couple that are more like vignettes with open endings) don't. Unless someone wants to write an alternate take, there's often not much of a place to go from the end of an LW story.

 

[Plathfan]

In my case, and most cases around the site, the desire to write a sequel is they really liked the original and want more, so its based on a positive reaction, not spite writing because something offended their sensibilities.

I disagree. Readers usually let you know through comments or private messages when they want more of something they enjoyed. In most cases, and across all categories, the drive to write a sequel stems from something in the story bothering enough to feel compelled to fix it. And as you said yourself, it's more of a rewrite than a sequel.

If I did a rewrite of every story here that offended me personally, I'd have never written anything original.

I disagree again. Sequels, while not always of high quality, are inherently original. While the pattern may exist, a competent creator would infuse it with a unique mixture drawn from their own world, ultimately making the story theirs. Names and settings are merely the first step of a very long staircase.

Why do some people object to it so much? In my opinion, it has less to do with copyright and more to do with insecurity: the concern that the new work might outshine their own. If you have confidence in your work, there's no need to fret over a sequel that will likely fade from memory in a few days (unless it's truly exceptional).

ETA: Many of the favorite works are uncredited sequels/rewrites.

 

[AlexBailey]

I’m not sure if you’ve made up your mind yet, but why not direct him to this thread? Ask him to read it and give you his thoughts, then you can decide.

 

[KeithD]

I the drive to write a sequel stems from something in the story bothering enough to feel compelled to fix it.

I think the drive to write a sequel (or for one to be written) is much (much!) more likely to be a desire to have the story extended than that something in the story is perceived to need fixing.

Incidentally, Pathfan, are you perhaps the echo alt of someone else here? There's no information on you on the site other than a recent join date (which isn't provided on your profile), you have no works listed, no favorites, no nothing. But you seem to have somewhat of an institutional memory of discussions here--and I'm hearing an echo. Are you perhaps shilling for yourself under another name?

 

[lovecraft68]

I think the drive to write a sequel (or for one to be written) is much (much!) more likely to be a desire to have the story extended than that something in the story is perceived to need fixing.

Agreed, that's the difference between a sequel which continues the story because the reader wants more, or a direct rewrite, because the reader hates something in the original.

The former is a form of appreciation, almost akin to a homage, the latter is the arrogance of a reader telling the original author they don't know how to write their own story, but of course, they do.

 

[KeithD]

but of course, they do.

Well, maybe they don't, but that would be no one else's mess to clean up.

 

[lovecraft68]

I disagree. Readers usually let you know through comments or private messages when they want more of something they enjoyed. In most cases, and across all categories, the drive to write a sequel stems from something in the story bothering enough to feel compelled to fix it. And as you said yourself, it's more of a rewrite than a sequel.


I disagree again. Sequels, while not always of high quality, are inherently original. While the pattern may exist, a competent creator would infuse it with a unique mixture drawn from their own world, ultimately making the story theirs. Names and settings are merely the first step of a very long staircase.

Why do some people object to it so much? In my opinion, it has less to do with copyright and more to do with insecurity: the concern that the new work might outshine their own. If you have confidence in your work, there's no need to fret over a sequel that will likely fade from memory in a few days (unless it's truly exceptional).

ETA: Many of the favorite works are uncredited sequels/rewrites.

I don't consider a direct sequel-as opposed to basing your story on a story you enjoyed, or thought could be done better, one and the same. One is no different than writing a Mission Impossible type novel when that genre is already done to death, but you have every right to add one more to it, the other is taking something that had prior success and hoping to get a boost from the original crowd by recognition.

The recent version of Roadhouse was awful, and if it came out with a different title to just be "similar to" no one would have watched it, but the name alone hooked people into watching as much of the slop as they could stand

 

[lovecraft68]

Have you considered the possibility that this could spark a trend of sequels to your works, some of which may not have your approval?

Spooky music...

It's possible, but if I hear of them, I would ask that they be removed because I was never asked. Going back to the FS situation, the author should have had all the sequels he never approved be removed, but he saw there were so many, he gave up, and as NTH mentioned, seems he did the same thing himself so maybe he felt he didn't have the right to.

 

[Plathfan]

The former is a form of appreciation, almost akin to a homage, the latter is the arrogance of a reader telling the original author they don't know how to write their own story, but of course, they do.

Arrogance? Nah, you come across a great premise but aren't satisfied with it, so you sit and write your own version, forgetting to credit the original, of course. This is how most stories are born. But hush, I'm revealing secrets that shouldn't be talked about.

 

[Plathfan]

Going back to the FS situation, the author should have had all the sequels he never approved be removed,

If he had done that, he would have lost 80% of his traffic. I wouldn't have read it, and we weren't talking about it.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

The fact he sent me the finished product a opposed to 'I want to write a sequel" and look for permission without me know what he was going to do, made me feel better as well.

That's a laudable opinion as well. There are more than a few authors here who act like his decision to write the story before obtaining your permission is a supreme act of evil... as if he was stealing from you.

Stealing what? I don't know, honestly. Your ideas or something? It seems to me like you still have all your ideas...

I don't know, but boy-howdy there are some really strong opinions about it.

 

[Senor_Smut]

Far be it from me to expect my advice to be taken by a much more popular and prolific author, but I do have some experience with a similar situation. Twenty or so years ago now I wrote a story for another website. The story was extremely popular, to the point where I still get fairly frequent comments and praise about it. Thing is, the story was unfinished -- I more or less burned out on it after I accomplished what I initially set out to do. People always ask me if it will ever be finished, and the answer is no, what there is is what there is.

Six or seven years ago, someone I'd never heard of asked me out of the blue if he could finish the story. Since I had no intention of touching it again, I gave my permission with the proviso that he make it perfectly clear that these were his additions and not mine. I've never read what he wrote (I was never interested) and I've only heard about his work twice since, when two different people asked me questions about it and told me that it was unclear that it was someone else's additions and not my continuation (which may have been the fault of the website he published on). Like your situation, he took things in quite a different direction than I intended.

All this is preface to say that I don't regret allowing him to do it, even if occasionally people thought it was my work rather than his. I was done with the story. The original stoy still exists in its unaltered form. I lost nothing by letting someone give their own take on it.

Think of your namesake: H.P. Lovecraft was an enthusiastic supporter of other people taking what he had written and writing their own stories around it, or picking up his unfinished ideas, or writing sequels. He always gave his blessing no matter his reservations on the writer's abilities or perspectives. I've always admired that profound generosity and selflessness, and I think we'd all do better if we emulated it.

My $0.02.

 

[lovecraft68]

That's a laudable opinion as well. There are more than a few authors here who act like his decision to write the story before obtaining your permission is a supreme act of evil... as if he was stealing from you.

Stealing what? I don't know, honestly. Your ideas or something? It seems to me like you still have all your ideas...

I don't know, but boy-howdy there are some really strong opinions about it.

Yeah, this is becoming an offshoot of the I want to start an argument thread.

For me, writing a sequel to something another wrote isn't evil or unethical, I think posting it publicly without consent is, at least in the case of a direct sequel, and not a "based on" type of story. Two different things.

 

[lovecraft68]

Think of your namesake: H.P. Lovecraft was an enthusiastic supporter of other people taking what he had written and writing their own stories around it, or picking up his unfinished ideas, or writing sequels. He always gave his blessing no matter his reservations on the writer's abilities or perspectives. I've always admired that profound generosity and selflessness, and I think we'd all do better if we emulated it.

My $0.02.

I never thought of it that way. The Lovecraft circle has some serious talent. Robert E-Howard Robert Bloch, Clark Ashton Smith to name a few.

At one point HPL and Bloch even "killed each other" in mirrored stories they wrote based on each other's work.