A LITTLE Realism?

[PennLady]

I'd like to think that my stories are realistic, but I'm not entirely sure what people take realistic to mean. I don't (generally, at least) write about model-pretty people, or things like that. Some of my stories start with sex on the first date, others it takes quite a while before anyone gets to do anything. I find the build up to it as rewarding or more than the sex scene itself. (Of course, I realize a lot of my stuff some people wouldn't actually classify a erotica in the first place.)

I think for a stroke story, there's simply going to be an element of un-realism, because things have to happen quickly. Also, many people like that element, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Hotcappucino]

I don't think realism is so much the issue with regards to the original post as the mundane. I think most readers require a large degree of realism in the stories they read. They want situations which are realistic and characters who act in a realistic manner. They just don't want to read pages and pages about someone getting up in the morning, brushing their teeth, taking a shower, yada yada yada, until finally something interesting happens in their life. Any story which proceeds for very long in this manner is going to lose a lot of readers.

 

[sr71plt]

I think that's a good point. When PennLady mentioned sex on a first date, my mind flipped into the sense of a pile of stories here that are just that--mundane. I don't think I've written any erotica stories about dating. I go more for the exotic and the far flung, both/either in location and time. I do think that, as a reader, I wouldn't last into the fourth consecutive story of "Jack took Jill to the movies and they fucked in the backseat of his Yugo afterward."

 

[polynices]

Realism vs. Reality

First, thanks to estragon for reading and commenting on Klimt, Etc. I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for telling me.

Secondly, isn't there a distinction to be made between realism and reality? Of course, quite a lot of the pieces posted as stories on Literotica claim to be accounts of real experiences - and some of them, at least, probably are - but the majority, I'd suggest, are fiction. And fiction is just that - it really isn't real. So realism is just a technique - an author's trick to persuade the reader to suspend his/her disbelief.

I think the degree of realism one attempts depends very much on the type of story one's writing. Sci-fi and fantasy (e.g. elves, dwarves and so on) require relatively little realistic detail. (But with the emphasis on relatively. Obviously, any story with zero realistic elements will just be meaningless.) On the other hand, stories set in the here and now, which purport to be about ordinary experience, will have to conform much more to what readers think of as reality in order to keep their attention.

But the realism still remains a trick. It's true that, as Hotcappucino says, They just don't want to read pages and pages about someone getting up in the morning, brushing their teeth, taking a shower, yada yada yada ... All writers select from the stream of experience, and mundane activities that can take hours in real life can be indicated by a single sentence in a story. (I woke up, dragged myself out of bed, and did all the usual getting up shit. Then Mitzi came in ...) Readers accept that: messing around with time is one of the conventions of fiction. We fast-forward to the interesting bits.

So fiction is fiction - and readers usually know that. What they want is enough realistic cues to persuade them that this (i.e. the story) might actually have happened, somewhere, sometime.

I think one of the most fascinating aspects of our culture is how much fiction we willingly consume. Most of the TV fiction we watch - cop shows, sci-fi, soaps, even so-called 'gritty drama' - doesn't really portray people behaving naturally in truly realistic situations. We're entertained by fiction - we probably need it in some sense - and we'll accept anything that has the shadow of reality.

- polynices

 

[RandallKinds]

Here you go:

http://www.literotica.com/s/hoover

 

[polynices]

Here you go:

http://www.literotica.com/s/hoover

Yes - this is definitely realistic - and meets the original poster's criterion, I fear. I've certainly had similar experiences, anyway. So how much real life do we want from our erotica?

- polynices

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Ignoring the OP’s hyperbole, haven’t we come full circle with sr’s criticism of, "Jack took Jill to the movies and they fucked in the backseat of his Yugo afterward"? Surely that was the original, poorly expressed point.

It’s not a question of realism but interest. Perry Mason never lost a case, Columbo always found his murderer, House always diagnoses the most abstruse maladies – but millions continue to tune in. Why? Surely it is a question of plot (story arc if you prefer).

In fact, isn’t that the crux of successful fiction/drama/screenplay. Suspend disbelief so you get away from all bodily functions and other trivia, create unbelievably small teams to avoid confusion and create character, and get the reader (viewer) caught up with wanting to know what happens next: page-turning, the journey is more exciting than the arrival.

Poly, I enjoyed your story and thought it very well done but can see why it fell on stony ground. Your allusions to ‘Ulysses’ would have left a lot of readers cold. It is not a well known book. The concentration on ‘wanting to understand how she felt’ took us away from the interaction of the couple from an erotic story POV.

Stroke or erotic fantasy, surely the key is getting the reader to need to know what happens next?

Lit is a broad group from professional writers to toe-dipping newbies. Giving appropriate advice and support to ‘virgins’ is at least as important as erudite critiques/edits of accomplished writers’ works.

 

[RandallKinds]

Yes - this is definitely realistic - and meets the original poster's criterion, I fear. I've certainly had similar experiences, anyway. So how much real life do we want from our erotica?

- polynices

I had a lot of experience to speak from.

But, to the point, you have to take erotica for what it is. None of us are here to read the next 'Atlas Shrugged'. You have to be able to leave behind reality, just a bit, in order to get into the fantasy of it. Sadly, there are only so many ways to fuck - eventually one will see a definite pattern. LOL What it comes down to is how the tale is told and whether the author has captured any one of our particular kinks.

Stories like mine would shut down this site in a week if that's all there was. Here reality should take a back seat to fantasy.

 

[polynices]

Stroke or erotic fantasy, surely the key is getting the reader to need to know what happens next?

Yes. Absolutely. I agree. And that's the trick with every kind of fiction I believe. (Of course, the difficult part is knowing whether or not you've done that - before you let the readers set eyes on it, that is.)

- polynices

 

[LulaBlue]

Polynices --

I just read the Klimt story. For me, that is definitely a realistic story -- your descriptive ability makes it really vivid -- and while it's rather sour (her chilly disappointment rings both true and evokes that kind of crestfallen remote sense of an underwhelming sexual experience: "'Leave me alone for a minute, would you? I need to get over it by myself,' she said." Ouch), it is definitely quite erotic. You're very pithy; at a guess it may be a combination of the precision of your evocation of feeling let down after a highly-charged buildup and that the story is very compact (you're pithier than the norm) that might have vexed some readers. Probably those looking for something to, ah, make to themselves to. I think it's a terrific story, though, and covet your precision with words.

And why did I hear Belle & Sebastian's "The Model" playing in my head while reading it? Yes -- your story came with its own built-in soundtrack for me. FWIW

 

[polynices]

Thanks very much for the comments, Lula - and also to Elfin. Both were interesting and useful responses from my point of view.

I may well steal parts of this, Lula:

... that kind of crestfallen remote sense of an underwhelming sexual experience ...

To be honest, although that was exactly what I was trying to convey in the story, I wasn't sure I'd actually got it right. (And that, of course, is because I'm a man tryng to describe a woman's sexual experience. We - I anyway - can never be quite sure we've really been accurate.) So it was especially gratifying to read that from you.

I take Elfin's point that a lot of readers may be puzzled or alienated by the Joyce reference. (But he really was a wonderful writer, you know. Just difficult and maddening and self-indulgent and frequently obscure, and ... and ... and ... But wonderful.)

On the main topic of this thread - Eliot said it all first:

Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.

(T S Eliot: Burnt Norton)

Does anybody else have any realistic stories posted?

- polynices

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Poly, I made my point badly. I think 'Ulysses' is great although I have a soft spot for the short stories of 'Dubliners'. I meant to say that allusions to flms, books etc. fall flat if many readers are unaware of the contents. You get into too much detail if you try to explain.

I think lula's comment,

... that kind of crestfallen remote sense of an underwhelming sexual experience ...

sums up your less than rapturous response from readers. You end on a diminuendo rather than a crescendo. Sort of like the famous quote, "Every life is a tragedy as it ends in the death of the hero."

Although some of the erudite literoticans would sniff at the thought, there is a touch of Disney about erotic fiction. The mantra, "All's Well That Ends Well' seems to sum up readers' expectations.

Just a thought;

All the mind's activity is easy if it is not subjected to reality.

~Marcel Proust, Remembrance of Things Past: Cities of the Plain

 

[LulaBlue]

Thanks very much for the comments, Lula - and also to Elfin. Both were interesting and useful responses from my point of view.

I may well steal parts of this, Lula:

... that kind of crestfallen remote sense of an underwhelming sexual experience ...

Heh -- it's all yours if you want it; since I wrote it while wrestling with insomnia, I'm surprised it's at all coherent!

But yes, that was conveyed to me quite well -- so for at least one woman, it was very effective.

 

[polynices]

You end on a diminuendo rather than a crescendo.

At the risk of flogging this topic to death (and I may have done that already, of course), I want to add that something connected to Elfin's point, above, has been in my mind for some time. That is, almost all Literotica erotica ends on a sexual crescendo: the narrative climax of the story is usually a sexual climax as well.

Of course, that's perfectly proper: erotic stories are about sex and sex is ultimately about having orgasms. However, from the point of view of producing original fiction, it's rather restricting. Since all conventional erotic stories (well, most of them, anyway) end with an orgasm, the options for the 'story arc' are limited. Somebody has to cum at the end. I suspect that's why I usually find the earlier parts of Literotica stories - the set-up - much more interesting than the actual sex nowadays. As RandallKinds said earlier: Sadly, there are only so many ways to fuck - eventually one will see a definite pattern.

I ought to repeat that I have no intention of advocating a complete change of direction for Literotica. To start with, nobody would take any notice if I did. And, secondly, Literotica is primarily about providing sexual excitement - not the finer points of fiction. I fully accept that - and endorse it. But I wonder if some writers, at least, feel they need to break out of the 'They met - they fucked - they came gloriously' straight-jacket from time to time. I'm pretty sure quite a lot already have, of course, but perhaps more writers would post a wider range of stories if they felt it was appropriate here: stories, perhaps, that are about the erotic without necessarily straining to be erotic all the time.

(And, after all, given the enormous numbers of people who read here and the relative ease of posting, Literotica really is a great place to post stories.)

- polynices

 

[sr71plt]

Most of the time, I'm trying to write stories, so my stories here usually end with a twist or two in the plot--not with an orgasm.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

Most of the time, I'm trying to write stories, so my stories here usually end with a twist or two in the plot--not with an orgasm.

Poly, I think sr answers your question. He does have sex scenes in his postings on Lit but whilst they are relevant they are not usually driving his stories.

You say;

'They met - they fucked - they came gloriously'

is the predominant theme here and, whilst I recognize the type of story, I think even good 'stroke' gets a bit above that and includes a touch of emotion and interreaction.

On Lit one writes erotica - which, to my mind, is a broader field than porn. There is a need to translate emotion into physical action in the journey but the conclusion and resolution of a good story doesn't necessarily need orgasm (in fact is often harmed by it ). At the end you conclude by resolving issues to leave the reader 'in the know'. That doesn't (probably shouldn't) need an orgasm.

As an intern I read War and Peace through lunch breaks and subway trips one summer. Tolstoy takes about 40 characters (Napoleon is a bit part) and over 2000 pages draws it all to a resolution that leads the reader content. The first soap-opera, I think.