A Request

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Frightening people is easy, simply place them outside their comfort zone, and overload them stuff to think about right when they need to be doing something that's gotta be done right now. Then toss a clear and present danger into the mix.

 

[SecondCircle]

Frightening people is easy, simply place them outside their comfort zone, and overload them stuff to think about right when they need to be doing something that's gotta be done right now. Then toss a clear and present danger into the mix.

That's the short of it, but it isn't quite that simple. I think pilot has the right of it as concerns the ability of a reader to control their own pace. On film you're pulled along with the current of the movie, but in a book, while you're following the stream, the picture is being painted for you as you go along.

So writing horror, while it may seem pretty basic, is pretty complicated. You're trying to evoke intense emotion, much like trying to pull on a readers heartstrings in romance. It can fall flat easily.

 

[sr71plt]

That's the short of it, but it isn't quite that simple. I think pilot has the right of it as concerns the ability of a reader to control their own pace. On film you're pulled along with the current of the movie, but in a book, while you're following the stream, the picture is being painted for you as you go along.

So writing horror, while it may seem pretty basic, is pretty complicated. You're trying to evoke intense emotion, much like trying to pull on a readers heartstrings in romance. It can fall flat easily.

The point I was trying to make with horror in writing as opposed to film is that you can't stop the film--you can close your eyes or cover your ears, but you can't stop whatever is going to happen right then. As a reader you can put the action on pause; you can just pull away from the reading altogether. You control both the pace and the impact. So, if you want to make the most of horror in writing, I think you need to hit the reader with the shock when they aren't anticipating it's coming (probably repeatedly) and/or the situation itself needs to really be horrific.

 

[SecondCircle]

Of course "horrific" is a very subjective term. I doubt what what scare one person will scare everyone else. Different people find different things frightening or disturbing. Some things that scare my wife are lost on me, while just last night she mentioned something (which sorta gives me the creeps) doesn't scare her the least bit. Doesn't even make her uncomfortable.

Which is why I think one should just spin the wheel. No matter where it lands, chances are you're going to get to quite a few people if not most.

 

[slyc_willie]

I read the second chapter. The unbroken narrative didn't bother me as much this time. The paragraphs were smaller for the most part, and nearly each one added something interesting and descriptive. Whether by design or chance, you've made the description a bit more concise.

The exhibitionism scene was very erotic. God descriptions of what Jenna was feeling and doing. I liked the clumsiness after her orgasm when she practically fell off the bed.

I didn't find Kelly's dialogue unbelievable at all. She sounds like the sort of "just go with it and have fun" girl I've met many times in my life, the type that never suspects anything serious or dangerous until it actually happens. Jenna, on the other hand, is the opposite . . . at least until placed in a situation in which she can indulge in a fantasy. With her consideration of Kelly's point of view as the backdrop for the chapter, Jenna's actions weren't implausible.

While it has taken one and a half chapters to get to it, you've done a good job of letting the reader know that there is "something else" going on. Are Blake and his brothers what they appear to be? Are they even human, or something else? Was that a real deformed hand at the window, or something else? Maybe Jenna was a little too inebriated from alcohol and masturbation and her mind distorted something that was actually pretty mundane.

Creating questions like this is a good way to keep readers interested. I think you're drawing it out a bit much, but that's only my point of view. Lord knows I've dragged out narratives and plot lines myself. The important thing is that you've hooked those readers who have given you the chance by sticking to your story. Granted, by the second chapter you've completely lost those looking for a stroke or a quick fix; that's not necessarily a bad thing. At the least, you've caught the attention of the careful, patient reader who is looking for details.

I still think so internal dialogue would do wonders for a story like this. It would be nice to know Jenna's actual thoughts, as confused or disjointed as they may be, if only to portray her emotions, concerns, deductions, and so forth. Let us see things more directly through her eyes. But again, that's just my opinion, my preference. I'm only one reader.

 

[SecondCircle]

I read the second chapter. The unbroken narrative didn't bother me as much this time. The paragraphs were smaller for the most part, and nearly each one added something interesting and descriptive. Whether by design or chance, you've made the description a bit more concise.

The exhibitionism scene was very erotic. God descriptions of what Jenna was feeling and doing. I liked the clumsiness after her orgasm when she practically fell off the bed.

I didn't find Kelly's dialogue unbelievable at all. She sounds like the sort of "just go with it and have fun" girl I've met many times in my life, the type that never suspects anything serious or dangerous until it actually happens. Jenna, on the other hand, is the opposite . . . at least until placed in a situation in which she can indulge in a fantasy. With her consideration of Kelly's point of view as the backdrop for the chapter, Jenna's actions weren't implausible.

While it has taken one and a half chapters to get to it, you've done a good job of letting the reader know that there is "something else" going on. Are Blake and his brothers what they appear to be? Are they even human, or something else? Was that a real deformed hand at the window, or something else? Maybe Jenna was a little too inebriated from alcohol and masturbation and her mind distorted something that was actually pretty mundane.

Creating questions like this is a good way to keep readers interested. I think you're drawing it out a bit much, but that's only my point of view. Lord knows I've dragged out narratives and plot lines myself. The important thing is that you've hooked those readers who have given you the chance by sticking to your story. Granted, by the second chapter you've completely lost those looking for a stroke or a quick fix; that's not necessarily a bad thing. At the least, you've caught the attention of the careful, patient reader who is looking for details.

I still think so internal dialogue would do wonders for a story like this. It would be nice to know Jenna's actual thoughts, as confused or disjointed as they may be, if only to portray her emotions, concerns, deductions, and so forth. Let us see things more directly through her eyes. But again, that's just my opinion, my preference. I'm only one reader.

I appreciate the feedback Willie. Its a lot to ask for someone to read a four part series, and I'm extremely glad someone delved further into the story. Its a bit hard to base feedback on one chapter alone when that chapter is only meant to begin the story and set the stage. Thanks for going a bit further.

Im glad to see that I didn't completely miss the mark with things like Kelly and the suspense of what's going on. At least I can still put together an erotic scene, glad you liked that. You're right about it not being a "quickie" stroker type story. I didnt intend for it to be one.

The internal dialogue thing will definitely be something I try to use in the future. Its an interesting take and I think it would help push the narrative and develops my character more. Thanks for that advice. And thanks for reading the story. The remaining chapters shouldn't disappoint.

 

[robertreams]

second circle

So many have heard me blabbing about dabbling in the EH category and trying to hone my skills therein. I've made another attempt at a story, and I was hoping you guys could give me so feedback on how it turned out. I have skin like a rhinoceros so lay it on me if you want. It only helps me in the end.

Now, I realize I'm asking quite a bit, its a 4 part series. But just let me know what you guys think and if it works as both erotica and horror.

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-watcher-ch-01

Here's the first link. Hope you like it. Thanks.

I read the first paragraph and couldn't go on. Isn't the instrument panel always behind the steering wheel? About half the words are superfluous. You use the word "that" in the first paragraph and it is unnecessary all four times.

Try this: Jenny sighed as the warning light from her dash reminded her just how forgetful she was. She had neglected changing the oil several times, but she knew Jason would have remembered. She shook her head as she turned onto the street winding through her quiet neighborhood. She could not stop dwelling on her forgetfulness, though normally such a slip would not have bothered her. Her day had not gone particularly well so far.

feel free to pm me, I would be happy to assist you.

 

[RedMonkeyButt]

A couple of details about the setting got me as well. She's in this cookie-cutter-ish development, with little space between houses (sounds like my parents' place, actually ) - yet she has a "long driveway". How? Small lots don't lend themselves to long driveways, unless perhaps the driveway is shared by a few houses. Also, I haven't seen a concrete driveway in ages, and not in a development like this. They're always blacktop or asphalt or whatever.

I haven't read the story yet, so I can't comment on it yet.

But as to this comment on cookie-cutter developments... I live in one of those. My house is a pastel mint green, I shit you not. Every single driveway is poured concrete and the only asphalt is on the street. The only developments with asphalt or other paved drives are the ones where the houses are set on more than five acres. And even then, most of those aren't paved at all.

Depending on which street you live on and which lot your house was built on, the lengths of the driveways vary drastically as well. My driveway, for example, is one of the shortest in the neighborhood. Our small car barely fits on it without hanging out into the alley behind the house. For reference, our small car is a '05 Scion xB. My immediate neighbors on both sides drive large, heavy duty pickups (a Dodge and Chevy 2500, both crew cab, both long bed), and their trucks fit in their driveways just fine. Across the street, where the houses are two-story and the lots are marginally bigger, the driveways are significantly longer. Some of them can hold two cars parked in tandem, and a couple can hold three cars in tandem.

This all goes flying out the window, though, since most of the people have basketball hoops or barbeque pits in their driveways and they park on our narrow streets. Their vehicles barely survive the appalling driving of our trash pick up guy.

So the setting of the houses being really close together with concrete driveways isn't that far from normal for me. It could just be the area I live in, but I actually only see asphalt paved driveways in the very rural areas around here. It's expensive to pave the driveways this way, but it's often the only thing that allows you to drive up to a house because if it wasn't paved in some way your car would bog down in the sand or get lost in a wash.

 

[PennLady]

I haven't read the story yet, so I can't comment on it yet.

But as to this comment on cookie-cutter developments... I live in one of those. My house is a pastel mint green, I shit you not. Every single driveway is poured concrete and the only asphalt is on the street. The only developments with asphalt or other paved drives are the ones where the houses are set on more than five acres. And even then, most of those aren't paved at all.

It obviously depends on where you live then. My parents live in a new-ish development in southern NJ, and their lots are very small, and they have short asphalt (well, black top) driveways. This is the kind of development in my area (PA, NJ) that i see most often. Perhaps theirs is just more rigorous in design or something, I don't know.

I don't care what kind of development it is, just the description didn't work for me, I guess.

 

[SecondCircle]

I haven't read the story yet, so I can't comment on it yet.

But as to this comment on cookie-cutter developments... I live in one of those. My house is a pastel mint green, I shit you not. Every single driveway is poured concrete and the only asphalt is on the street. The only developments with asphalt or other paved drives are the ones where the houses are set on more than five acres. And even then, most of those aren't paved at all.

Depending on which street you live on and which lot your house was built on, the lengths of the driveways vary drastically as well. My driveway, for example, is one of the shortest in the neighborhood. Our small car barely fits on it without hanging out into the alley behind the house. For reference, our small car is a '05 Scion xB. My immediate neighbors on both sides drive large, heavy duty pickups (a Dodge and Chevy 2500, both crew cab, both long bed), and their trucks fit in their driveways just fine. Across the street, where the houses are two-story and the lots are marginally bigger, the driveways are significantly longer. Some of them can hold two cars parked in tandem, and a couple can hold three cars in tandem.

This all goes flying out the window, though, since most of the people have basketball hoops or barbeque pits in their driveways and they park on our narrow streets. Their vehicles barely survive the appalling driving of our trash pick up guy.

So the setting of the houses being really close together with concrete driveways isn't that far from normal for me. It could just be the area I live in, but I actually only see asphalt paved driveways in the very rural areas around here. It's expensive to pave the driveways this way, but it's often the only thing that allows you to drive up to a house because if it wasn't paved in some way your car would bog down in the sand or get lost in a wash.

That's basically where I was trying to describe. Its a subdivision where the houses are close together, almost all of them have concrete driveways, and several in the back portion are set far from the road on long narrow lots with vast front and backyards, but little room between the houses. Its an actual place. Not to say that PennLady was incorrect, because she maybe has never seen the type, but I did use an actual reference for the setting.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't see the problem. Subdivisions in the States exist in all sorts of configurations. If this is how the subdivision is described in the story, it's how it exists in the story.

 

[RedMonkeyButt]

I don't see the problem. Subdivisions in the States exist in all sorts of configurations. If this is how the subdivision is described in the story, it's how it exists in the story.

It wasn't a problem. More an observation of the different areas. PennLady is used to short blacktop driveways, I'm used to varying length concrete driveways. SecondCircle is basing his description off of what he's used to. You yourself could very well be used to something entirely different. PennLady commented on the setting not working for her because it's not the norm for her area, and I commented that it is very much the norm for mine.

 

[sr71plt]

It wasn't a problem. More an observation of the different areas. PennLady is used to short blacktop driveways, I'm used to varying length concrete driveways. SecondCircle is basing his description off of what he's used to. You yourself could very well be used to something entirely different. PennLady commented on the setting not working for her because it's not the norm for her area, and I commented that it is very much the norm for mine.

I don't see where the point you were making and the one I was making were different in any way--and required further explanation.

And there was a problem. There was a stated difference of opinion of what was believable in a story.

 

[SecondCircle]

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback. As always, you guys have given pretty good advice. But I have to say I'm kinda chuckling. My writing has a long way to go. I know my writing can get clunky at times, and I often lay a bit of excess on the reader. But I'm curious to know more than concrete driveways and meters versus yards.

What I really wanna know is how the story worked as a whole, and if its a good horror story as well as a good erotic story.

I realize this means reading all four chapters, and I know that's a lot to ask. Thanks.

 

[RedMonkeyButt]

OK. I sat down at noon today to read the first chapter. It's 7pm now and I'm hungry, slightly freaked out about my tall neighbors now, and I've read the entire thing. All 4 chapters.

A few things that stuck with me were:
1. The use of the word "message" instead of "massage"
2. The use of the "prescience" instead of "presence"
3. The part where she has a cock protruding inside of her. That word doesn't work there.
4. I understand the concrete driveway thing now that I've read it. She could have parked in her driveway and it would have been fine. You don't actually need the concrete qualifier. I really couldn't care less what her driveway is made of. Without the word concrete, it lets the reader imagine the setting much more freely.
5. You spend paragraphs complaining about her shitty day. But when she's sitting in her car studying the new neighbors, the only info we get is that they are all men. We get a whole paragraph dedicated to the fact that they are men. Whoop de doo. What do they look like? What are they wearing? Oh yeah, there it is. They're tall, skinny, and blond. And one of them is taller. And one of them is squirrely. But I had to wait for one of these tall boys to approach her to get that much description of them.
6. Where else is she going to put her name tag?
7. If she thinks her neighbor is watching her through her window why does she go to his house and ask about it? Seriously? If I thought my neighbors were peeping, the last thing I would do would be to confront them about it. I get that she's liking the attention, but damn. Everybody knows the snoopy neighbor in the horror movie is going to kill you in interesting and painful ways. And the one who confronts him is usually the first to go.
8. I think the friend was introduced as a comic relief, but then you kind of just forgot about her. She's a good enough friend that Jenna tells her about the peeper, but she's not a good enough friend for Jenna to call her up when she's bored to death? I think she would have come off better if you had put her in more. Even better if she hadn't been in the story at all.

Those were what I could think of off the top of my head. They're not in any particular order.

Now, on to the important things I got as a reader. Number 8 above was the only thing that made me stop at the end of the story and ask myself WTF? I got through the whole story before I thought about what the friend was doing there. Why even have her in the story at all? the comedic relief doesn't fit with the feeling I got from the rest of the story.

Other than that and the occasional wrong word, I think this story was actually well done. Yes, you are way too wordy in some places and not enough in others. But that wasn't enough to turn me away from the story. It was erotic when it needed to be. You had me not wanting Blake to leave when he came over, and gasping when he got knocked the fuck out. I was repulsed at one point, but it was like a sexual train wreck. I was slightly turned on while still gagging a little. And the rest of the time I was completely freaked out. You have completely ruined my tall, skinny neighbors for me for a while. I'm going to start looking for saggy skin and horns and shit.

So I think you attained your goal with EH, at least with this reader. To me, horror shouldn't be something that reaches out and smacks you upside the head. Horror works better for me when it's a bump in the night, or a strange sound when you're home alone. I can sit through the Chainsaw Massacre and not be scared, but The Rite creeped me out. For me, horror works best when it's that creeping feeling on the back of your neck that something's just a little off. You do a good job of both the skin-crawling stuff and the smack upside the head graphic stuff. And you still managed to make it erotic.

 

[SecondCircle]

I would like to thank the red butt of the monkey for your honest and helpful feedback. Its just what I wanted. Honest straightforward punch you in the face criticism with helpful ideas, as well as confirmation of what worked and what didn't. Thanks for reading the whole story. That's a lot to ask of a person, and I know sometimes it ain't necessarily what you wanna read. Glad to see that horror and erotica can coexist within my writing. That's kinda what I wanted to see. Because if I was doing a shitty job, I wouldn't wanna keep doing it.

Anyway, thanks a bunch to all, and the RedMonkey.