A serious (!) question about language

[Guest]

Who or which does the jumping at the end of the day?

 

[Rybka]

Who or which does the jumping at the end of the day?

It should be obvious.

Sundowner

Have not you ever seen
the sea turn red wine plum
and all the splashing colors run
when with a flash of green
the spinning earth does come
and swallows up the liquid sun.
. . .

 

[Icingsugar]

Who or which does the jumping at the end of the day?

Provided the right company, I'll gladly do a bit of jumping at the end of the day.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

aprendo a bailar

Último Beijo

One in English / Spanish
One in English / Portuguese
and this thread inspired me to one in English / Italian:

Giulieta's Ghost

 

[*Catbabe*]

My bilingual effort:

Les Deux Faces

Une bataille perdue,
another is won.
Moments in the past,
Dessinent l’avenir.

Les mots j’écris,
And the words I say,
Come from deep in yesterday.
I am et je suis,
Une mélange de la chance.




The bilingual part of that was more difficult than I imagined. I kept getting distracted with questions.

Do you blend the two languages together or keep them separate? How simple do you keep the other language in order not to leave out English only readers?

 

[Angeline]

Who or which does the jumping at the end of the day?

I thought the cow did...

This thread raises some interesting questions about translations. A literal translation of a poem to a second language may cause it to be remarkably unpoetic. jthserra's haiku examples are beautiful, but I wonder how close they are in literal meaning to that in the original language. (They may be literal translations or not--I have no idea).

I began to have questions about translations--not so much their legitimacy, but how far a translator should go to convey what he or she believes to be the "poeticism" of a particular poem, which may not be an exact translation of it. For example, there are at least 15 English translations of the poem "Autopsicografia" by the late Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa. This link shows 13 of them (2 by the same person). In my opinion, the best "poems" there seem not to be the best translations.

How far can a translator stray and stll be considered to be translating a poem (compared to writing a new one)? Anyone else think about this?

Oh, and here's my effort--written about a year ago.

in Spanish

La luna desnuda

Si mi olvida
Quiero que sepos una cosa
Que viste morir y nacer

Porque ahora
Y no sabes que hacer
Con la luna desnuda

Sabio que todo vuelve mi boca
Mi patria o mi piedra fresca
Siguire vivo

and in English

The naked moon

If you forget me
I want you to know one thing
You’ve seen me living and dying

But now
You don’t know what to do
With the naked moon

I know that everything
Comes back to my mouth
My country and my cool stone
I’m still alive

 

[Guest]

Provided the right company, I'll gladly do a bit of jumping at the end of the day.

"J" not "H".

 

[jthserra]

Ang... I wonder also...

How far can a translator stray and stll be considered to be translating a poem (compared to writing a new one)? Anyone else think about this?

Yes... I have always been concerned with this. Am I reading Neruda or the translator. Obviously a translator must put ego aside and try his/her best to recreate the original. Or do they insert the ego to not just translate words but try to represent the spirit of the poem, rather than a, perhaps, bland direct translation.

I had always wondered what I was reading when reading translations. Lauren's link really opened my eyes, and as I mentioned before, kind of broke my heart. I guess I had deluded myself to the accuracy (if you can call it that) of the translation. Now I have to worry about the translation, was the translator true to the original, or am I reading the translators poem... ouch.


Of the haiku I posted, the first was a translation, the second two were mine (responding to the erotic haiku challenge).

anyway I will be more wary of the translation in my reading.

jim

 

[Linbido]

Another aspect of language

Ready for another seroius angle to the language musings?

I once did an essay about how other nordic languages was precieved in the rest of the world. This was in high school, so I have forgotten most of it, but what I found was that there are two different things to consider. The look and rhythm of the written language, and the phonetics of the spoken one.

Norweigan (both, there are two official Norse languages) was not very appealing to the eye, but to many foreigners very appealing to the ear. Not because of the phonetics of the words, not because of the rhythm of the sentences. But because of the melody. Apparently, Norweigans and Swedes often use a much wider vocal range than many Anglo- or Roman speaking people. We speak in tonal peaks and valleys, whereas some other languages use tempo as the main intonation instrument.

Have you ever thought of how you sound when you speak? Try recording a normal conversation, and play it back without listening to the words, but just the tempo and the melody. It's actually pretty fascinating.

 

[Rybka]

Re: Another aspect of language

Ready for another seroius angle to the language musings?
. . .
Have you ever thought of how you sound when you speak? Try recording a normal conversation, and play it back without listening to the words, but just the tempo and the melody. It's actually pretty fascinating.

On a slightly different theme, How many think that they really sound like what they hear when then play their taped voices back? How many like what they hear?

 

[Linbido]

Re: Re: Another aspect of language

On a slightly different theme, How many think that they really sound like what they hear when then play their taped voices back? How many like what they hear?

I have recorded audiobooks, narrated radio, sung in a band, done stageplay voice tracks, and a zillion other odd things with my voice.

So...I'm pretty used to it.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Another aspect of language

On a slightly different theme, How many think that they really sound like what they hear when then play their taped voices back? How many like what they hear?

I was shocked the first time I heard my voice on tape. I couldn't believe it was me -- and I hated it. I'm a bit more used to it now, especially after recording messages for the answering machine, but I'm not crazy about how it sounds.

Xtaabay

 

[OT]

Re: Re: Another aspect of language

On a slightly different theme, How many think that they really sound like what they hear when then play their taped voices back? How many like what they hear?

Let's just say that I'm glad I don't have to listen to me

I used to blame it on the old scratchy tape recorder.
Now that we have digital doo-dads that make everyone
else's voice sound OK, I've resigned myself to the truth -
I don't sound so good.

Just as some have a face for radio, I have a voice for writing

 

[Guest]

Re: Another aspect of language

Ready for another seroius angle to the language musings?

Norweigan (both, there are two official Norse languages) was not very appealing to the eye, but to many foreigners very appealing to the ear. Not because of the phonetics of the words, not because of the rhythm of the sentences. But because of the melody. Apparently, Norweigans and Swedes often use a much wider vocal range than many Anglo- or Roman speaking people. We speak in tonal peaks and valleys, whereas some other languages use tempo as the main intonation instrument.

Have you ever thought of how you sound when you speak? Try recording a normal conversation, and play it back without listening to the words, but just the tempo and the melody. It's actually pretty fascinating.

I am always amused by how people mimic another language they don't understand. The intonations and some of the hard consonants are what seem to come through most.

The Swedish Chef from the Muppets, Pepe Le Peu from Loony Toons, and Speedy Gonzales from the same all give insights into how Americans "hear" foreign languages.

b

 

[Rybka]

Accents

I am always amused by how people mimic another language they don't understand. The intonations and some of the hard consonants are what seem to come through most.

The Swedish Chef from the Muppets, Pepe Le Peu from Loony Toons, and Speedy Gonzales from the same all give insights into how Americans "hear" foreign languages.

b

Yes, but all three are very, very funny!

Regards, Rybka

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Another aspect of language

I am always amused by how people mimic another language they don't understand. The intonations and some of the hard consonants are what seem to come through most.

The Swedish Chef from the Muppets, Pepe Le Peu from Loony Toons, and Speedy Gonzales from the same all give insights into how Americans "hear" foreign languages.

b

Dick van Dyke's efforts at a cockney accent in Mary Poppins - unintentionnally (I think) hilarious.