another dead poet/writer?

[My Erotic Tale]

I hesitate to post a response here, but I just can't help myself.

If one doesn't want to receive honest feedback, then don't allow it. It's really quite simple. Personally, I've greatly appreciated the few times someone has cared enough to point out ways that one of my poems could be improved. I wish it happened more often. Hell, I even posted a link to one in my sigline begging for honest criticism and only received one response. (For which I was quite grateful for the honesty, but that's another matter. )

I shudder to think that people are being intimidated out of giving real feedback because they're afraid to offend anyone. Then again, the last time I gave real feedback about a poem that was really quite good, but had typos and/or poor spelling, every single one of my submissions received a shiny new 1 vote the same day. It could be coincidence, but I must admit I now take that into account and usually just don't comment anymore if I don't know how a person will respond.

If this person truly believes that there is one single malevolent person out there using multiple names and hounding them with criticism, then by all means they should report that. If not, perhaps they should not give readers the option of providing feedback.

hey min~

the on/off switch for feedback has been discussed
and an option but almost all us want comments and
ANON doesn't really mind feedback from various people
but the constant bombardment from the same
critic or critics with the same 'your not a writer' comment
then why would they read the next story posted by
this author just to tell them again,,, your not a writer
or once again your 'grammar sucks'

this is sinle out mentality and then ...heres the best
part they write sadi critic please dont comment
on my stuff any more and a totally different screen
name they come back with the relpy, I can
comment how I want freedom of speech if you
dont like it then turn off your voting bla bla
obviously they didnt realize or didnt care to expose
that one critic recieved the message and aonther
replied... I smell a rat or something fishy here ...

how ya been ... good to see ya, written any
good poems lately?

 

[Tathagata]

Anon: Not my style. I don't want polish.
Anon: I want passion, fever, obsession..
Anon: I LOVE MY STYLE NOBODY WRITES LIKE ME. I WILL NOT BE CLEANED UP.

Dear Anon,



Anyone who doesn't use spelling, punctuation,line breaks, or editing writes like You
That's the problem


we all go through a point where we just want to write and leave it as it was
I still do, and try too as much as possible
I believe in the pure, zen like, expression of first thought
That being said...not everything you write out is a gem
some need polish and need to follow some rules in order to be better understood, or explained
If you think you are unique by writing as you do....you are wrong
If you think it makes you better you are wrong
if you want to continue to write as you do...then you should...but if you also have the comment box checked and you're going to get pissed off because people don't recognize your " genius"...you're in for a tough time here.

we don't " make" the rules. we don't " enjoy" the rules
we follow them, sometimes, because it helps us get our story, are point, across.

If you don't want feedback...uncheck the box and keep writing.

Let me assure you of this...you will be hard pressed to find any where else where stream of conscious" poetry is accepted over and over without some form of criticism.


_

 

[twelveoone]

Let me assure you of this...you will be hard pressed to find any where else where stream of conscious poetry is accepted over and over without some form of criticism.


_

the more stream of conscious, or Xtreme of conscious, the more it needs to be editted, honed. If you want someone to follow, the more clues you have to leave, the more pointers you need.

You should be able to defend every omission, every word. Then if the audience doesn't like it - fuck ' em.

My guess is that T.S. Eliot's Wasteland may have taken 6 years, nobody can really figure it out, but it can take you there.

As opposed to writing some crap on acid, seems so profound, until you come down.

 

[minsue]

hey min~

the on/off switch for feedback has been discussed
and an option but almost all us want comments and
ANON doesn't really mind feedback from various people
but the constant bombardment from the same
critic or critics with the same 'your not a writer' comment
then why would they read the next story posted by
this author just to tell them again,,, your not a writer
or once again your 'grammar sucks'

this is sinle out mentality and then ...heres the best
part they write sadi critic please dont comment
on my stuff any more and a totally different screen
name they come back with the relpy, I can
comment how I want freedom of speech if you
dont like it then turn off your voting bla bla
obviously they didnt realize or didnt care to expose
that one critic recieved the message and aonther
replied... I smell a rat or something fishy here ...

how ya been ... good to see ya, written any
good poems lately?

I would encourage Anon to report it, Art.

As for me, I've been doodling. I wouldn't call it writing. I finally gave in and submitted, though, as though submitting crap would somehow knock down the walls keeping the words from spilling onto the page like they're supposed to. It'll be up eventually.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Dear Anon,



Anyone who doesn't use spelling, punctuation,line breaks, or editing writes like You
That's the problem


we all go through a point where we just want to write and leave it as it was
I still do, and try too as much as possible
I believe in the pure, zen like, expression of first thought
That being said...not everything you write out is a gem
some need polish and need to follow some rules in order to be better understood, or explained
If you think you are unique by writing as you do....you are wrong
If you think it makes you better you are wrong
if you want to continue to write as you do...then you should...but if you also have the comment box checked and you're going to get pissed off because people don't recognize your " genius"...you're in for a tough time here.

we don't " make" the rules. we don't " enjoy" the rules
we follow them, sometimes, because it helps us get our story, are point, across.

If you don't want feedback...uncheck the box and keep writing.

Let me assure you of this...you will be hard pressed to find any where else where stream of conscious" poetry is accepted over and over without some form of criticism.


_

I can respect your comments on HOW TO WRITE:
write on the wing of passion and sail across the tale
conform refinement edit spell check polish
then submit if you want recognition or feedback

but that is a drop in the bucket as far as issues here.
one issue at a time is staying very well focussed

so your opinion of critics whom read a writer and don't
agree with their work yet every new submission they
post almost the same exact comment "your writes
are less than desirable"

the feedback has a comment that they read all the stories
by this author and an analysis that said person
shouldn't write. After a little while if they don't
like the stories then why read them? I think not.

I got an eye on this situation but when you send
a reply to one person and another replies to that
reply, time to use a shot gun cause the snakes in
the grass ya just can';t see 'em.

I agree with what your saying, when you open
the possiblity of feedback your opening the door
to the weirdos too, we can';t all be budda monkeys
but danm it they should try ...<grin>

 

[minsue]

we can';t all be budda monkeys
but danm it they should try

That's one of the most profound things I've read in ages. I think I need a nap.

 

[Tathagata]

I can respect your comments on HOW TO WRITE:
write on the wing of passion and sail across the tale
conform refinement edit spell check polish
then submit if you want recognition or feedback

but that is a drop in the bucket as far as issues here.
one issue at a time is staying very well focussed

so your opinion of critics whom read a writer and don't
agree with their work yet every new submission they
post almost the same exact comment "your writes
are less than desirable"

the feedback has a comment that they read all the stories
by this author and an analysis that said person
shouldn't write. After a little while if they don't
like the stories then why read them? I think not.

I got an eye on this situation but when you send
a reply to one person and another replies to that
reply, time to use a shot gun cause the snakes in
the grass ya just can';t see 'em.

I agree with what your saying, when you open
the possiblity of feedback your opening the door
to the weirdos too, we can';t all be budda monkeys
but danm it they should try ...<grin>

If that's the case they should simply ignore the person who says the same thing over and over no matter what name they use.
It's seems pretty simple

Or delete the comment
~shrug~

I mean you don't have to listen to anyone here
I've gotten " 1 bombed" and had shit thrown at me too
take it for what it's worth
do what you do, listen to the people you trust, and ignore the hateful bastards..

My complaint is we spend way too much time here trying to justify things to people

We don't kiss ass
We don't have a clique
We aren't vague
We have different ways of writing
We want feedback
We don't want feedback
We care about the votes
We don't care about the votes
I mean jesus
No one said this place was fair or unbiased or a shangri-la where everyone can write in sartorial harmony and never get their feelings hurt.

If she has a complaint..email Lauren and see if she can do something
Otherwise these constant interventions which leads to pages of everyone explaining what They mean and how They see poetry.........

It's like thanksgiving dinner and someone brings up politics or religion.
No ones mind is changed and everyone gets pissy and the dessert melts and the beer gets warm.
I hate that



There are people here who will get all over someone for a certain trait or style or whatever.
It happens everywhere
By acknowledging them and responding to them or worse
starting threads about how much they upset you, these trolls are sitting at home laughing their asses off and creaming their pajama bottoms.

This is the last one of these type threads I'm going to comment on.

Anyone wants my advice/ opinion etc they can PM and ask.

I'm sorry if I sound short ( well I am short)
But Catbabe said it best
"no on can hurt you without your permission"
so don't let them.



Namaste'

 

[My Erotic Tale]

If that's the case they should simply ignore the person who says the same thing over and over no matter what name they use.
It's seems pretty simple

Or delete the comment
~shrug~

I mean you don't have to listen to anyone here
I've gotten " 1 bombed" and had shit thrown at me too
take it for what it's worth
do what you do, listen to the people you trust, and ignore the hateful bastards..

My complaint is we spend way too much time here trying to justify things to people

We don't kiss ass
We don't have a clique
We aren't vague
We have different ways of writing
We want feedback
We don't want feedback
We care about the votes
We don't care about the votes
I mean jesus
No one said this place was fair or unbiased or a shangri-la where everyone can write in sartorial harmony and never get their feelings hurt.

If she has a complaint..email Lauren and see if she can do something
Otherwise these constant interventions which leads to pages of everyone explaining what They mean and how They see poetry.........

It's like thanksgiving dinner and someone brings up politics or religion.
No ones mind is changed and everyone gets pissy and the dessert melts and the beer gets warm.
I hate that



There are people here who will get all over someone for a certain trait or style or whatever.
It happens everywhere
By acknowledging them and responding to them or worse
starting threads about how much they upset you, these trolls are sitting at home laughing their asses off and creaming their pajama bottoms.

This is the last one of these type threads I'm going to comment on.

Anyone wants my advice/ opinion etc they can PM and ask.

I'm sorry if I sound short ( well I am short)
But Catbabe said it best
"no on can hurt you without your permission"
so don't let them.



Namaste'

dang tath~

is that the longest post you've ever made?
I'm honored <grinin'>

Anon has emailed laurel thanks to liars tip
about the IP block and so this thread did
relay some valuble information on how to deal
with the non monkeys, or spider monkeys and their
web <chucklebone>

well the chicken chatter and cluckings been going
on for awhile and like I said before so many come
and go for so many reasons it's like the gladiators
the toughest are still standing but for how long?

it's a revolving door of literary souls and delimas
the melting pot of writers and styles, catagories, likes
and dislikes. The exchange of these thoughts, ideas
or mentalities always rub some one like sandpaper.

but thanks for the indepth look into the feelings
of the zen master of pen's opinion on feedback?
or writers excepting feedback

I said it hundreds of times, exceptance is the key to
tranquility, you have to except people for who they
are, can't change the legs on a dog...or monkey!

 

[twelveoone]

I hate that

We don't kiss ass
We don't have a clique
We aren't vague
We have different ways of writing
We want feedback
We don't want feedback
We care about the votes
We don't care about the votes
I mean jesus, ignore the hateful bastards..
I hate that

We have a winner for the "I Hate it ...challenge"
Jesusmarybuddha, Tath take your own advice, why are you venting so?
Come sit under the banyan tree,
"life is a joke,
death is just the punchline,
you either get it
or you don't"
Do not Art and Sack refer to you as the zen master?

 

[twelveoone]

I said it hundreds of times, exceptance is the key to
tranquility, you have to except people for who they
are, can't change the legs on a dog...or monkey!

exceptance?
You are a tough guy to figure out.
Deep bow

 

[*Catbabe*]

I said it hundreds of times, exceptance is the key to
tranquility, you have to except people for who they
are, can't change the legs on a dog...or monkey!

Acceptance is the way to tranquility I agree. However, it is hypocritical and egocentric to assume that acceptance is defined by your personal views of right and wrong.

Acceptance, in my opinion, means acknowledging other people’s right to their opinion and allowing them to speak their mind whether that is positive or negative. What you do with that opinion is entirely up to you, but you have no right to tell anyone that they can’t think or say whatever they like.

You are annoyed that some people have stopped writing at Lit because of critical comments but yet you don’t seem to care at all about the people who have stopped reading and critiquing work here because of people’s over reactions to their words.

I, for one, stopped leaving public comments good or bad because I can’t be bothered to defend my right to speak my mind on a weekly basis or be blamed for someone else’s choice to stop writing.

I am happy to look at anyone’s writing and if I have something to say about it, I do it in a pm with reasons to back up my opinions. They are offered without malice, just as my opinion of that particular poem.

Acceptance is a two way street. When you hint that perhaps people shouldn’t ever make critical comments in feedback you are telling those people how to think and act and that is not acceptance.

 

[jthserra]

I, for one, stopped leaving public comments good or bad because I can’t be bothered to defend my right to speak my mind on a weekly basis or be blamed for someone else’s choice to stop writing.

I am happy to look at anyone’s writing and if I have something to say about it, I do it in a pm with reasons to back up my opinions. They are offered without malice, just as my opinion of that particular poem.

Acceptance is a two way street. When you hint that perhaps people shouldn’t ever make critical comments in feedback you are telling those people how to think and act and that is not acceptance.

Well said Catbabe... all I can add is a hearty amen!


jim : )

 

[Angeline]

<snip>
It's like thanksgiving dinner and someone brings up politics or religion.
No ones mind is changed and everyone gets pissy and the dessert melts and the beer gets warm.
I hate that

<snip>

Namaste'

I hate that too.

I just write poems.

poems.

your write yours. i write mine.



Namaste'

 

[Angeline]

Acceptance is the way to tranquility I agree. However, it is hypocritical and egocentric to assume that acceptance is defined by your personal views of right and wrong.

Acceptance, in my opinion, means acknowledging other people’s right to their opinion and allowing them to speak their mind whether that is positive or negative. What you do with that opinion is entirely up to you, but you have no right to tell anyone that they can’t think or say whatever they like.

You are annoyed that some people have stopped writing at Lit because of critical comments but yet you don’t seem to care at all about the people who have stopped reading and critiquing work here because of people’s over reactions to their words.

I, for one, stopped leaving public comments good or bad because I can’t be bothered to defend my right to speak my mind on a weekly basis or be blamed for someone else’s choice to stop writing.

I am happy to look at anyone’s writing and if I have something to say about it, I do it in a pm with reasons to back up my opinions. They are offered without malice, just as my opinion of that particular poem.

Acceptance is a two way street. When you hint that perhaps people shouldn’t ever make critical comments in feedback you are telling those people how to think and act and that is not acceptance.

What about a giraffe?

 

[*Catbabe*]

What about a giraffe?

I strongly support free speech amongst tall spotted animals.

Some of my best feedback has come from giraffes, although they do tend to be long-winded.

 

[Angeline]

I strongly support free speech amongst tall spotted animals.

Some of my best feedback has come from giraffes, although they do tend to be long-winded.

I support free speech among all species that are capable of trampling me.

 

[*Catbabe*]

I support free speech among all species that are capable of trampling me.

The elephants apologized for that Ange. I would have thought you would have let it go by now.


P.S. The mice who live in my basement were vexed at your comment and wanted me to tell you know that there are much worse things than trampling...

 

[Reltne]

What She Said!

Acceptance is the way to tranquility I agree. However, it is hypocritical and egocentric to assume that acceptance is defined by your personal views of right and wrong.

Acceptance, in my opinion, means acknowledging other people’s right to their opinion and allowing them to speak their mind whether that is positive or negative. What you do with that opinion is entirely up to you, but you have no right to tell anyone that they can’t think or say whatever they like.

You are annoyed that some people have stopped writing at Lit because of critical comments but yet you don’t seem to care at all about the people who have stopped reading and critiquing work here because of people’s over reactions to their words.

I, for one, stopped leaving public comments good or bad because I can’t be bothered to defend my right to speak my mind on a weekly basis or be blamed for someone else’s choice to stop writing.

I am happy to look at anyone’s writing and if I have something to say about it, I do it in a pm with reasons to back up my opinions. They are offered without malice, just as my opinion of that particular poem.

Acceptance is a two way street. When you hint that perhaps people shouldn’t ever make critical comments in feedback you are telling those people how to think and act and that is not acceptance.

I really shouldn't say anything in this thread since I have not read all of it.

Because "My Erotic Tale" originally objected so vociferously and personally to being told (gently, and in a positive manner I thought/intended, albeit more than once) that he really needed to use a spell checker, or find a friendly editor, I did what we are all free to do. I put him on my "Ignore" list. Furthermore I no longer read any of his submissions because I found myself paying more attention to "how" he was saying something rather than to what it was he was saying, and I acknowledge that that is not desirable.

Anyway, it is his right to write what and how he will. It is my prerogative to comment on it or, in this case, choose to ignore him. I suggest he and his "anon" friend think about the same options. Some of the quotes of his in some of the posts in this thread smack of "trolling" or rabble rousing themselves.
Do you think it is possible to get back to poetry and ignore personalities and invective?

(To pi$$ everyone else off as well, it would be appropriate to move the non-poetic chatroom chatter elsewhere or at least reduce the amount of it. - The amount of thread hijacking is ridiculous {and the monitors are as guilty as anyone else}! (IMHO)

I would like to suggest that such problems as I have mentioned here be handled in a less public forum. - I back away from controversy while some here complain, but embrace it.

I want your poetry, not your problems!

 

[twelveoone]

Acceptance is the way to tranquility I agree. However, it is hypocritical and egocentric to assume that acceptance is defined by your personal views of right and wrong.

Acceptance, in my opinion, means acknowledging other people’s right to their opinion and allowing them to speak their mind whether that is positive or negative. What you do with that opinion is entirely up to you, but you have no right to tell anyone that they can’t think or say whatever they like.

You are annoyed that some people have stopped writing at Lit because of critical comments but yet you don’t seem to care at all about the people who have stopped reading and critiquing work here because of people’s over reactions to their words.

I, for one, stopped leaving public comments good or bad because I can’t be bothered to defend my right to speak my mind on a weekly basis or be blamed for someone else’s choice to stop writing.

I am happy to look at anyone’s writing and if I have something to say about it, I do it in a pm with reasons to back up my opinions. They are offered without malice, just as my opinion of that particular poem.

Acceptance is a two way street. When you hint that perhaps people shouldn’t ever make critical comments in feedback you are telling those people how to think and act and that is not acceptance.

I'm not sure that was Art's intent.

I am sorry to see that someone the caliber of you will not comment, because of someone else's inability to accept criticism, except by private appointment. Both jim and Angeline once did "New Poem Reviews" and did them well, I suspect neither do it anymore partly because of this.

Perhaps a "another dead critic thread"

annaswirls may have tried to address this problem with her roll call, although, again I am sure most will overestimate their ability to accept criticism.

I truly lament the loss of good criticism, nor do I want to be forced into imposing upon someone via PM to read my atrocities. That is not fair to either party, and I think it also will have a tendency to skew what is said.

"you can't write" over and over again, is not good criticism, that may have been Art's intent here, at least that was my reading of it.

There appears to be a bit of heard mentality here, some of the fiction generated may be because two or more heards have run into each other.

This is very well said:
Acceptance, in my opinion, means acknowledging other people’s right to their opinion and allowing them to speak their mind whether that is positive or negative. What you do with that opinion is entirely up to you, but you have no right to tell anyone that they can’t think or say whatever they like.
but no more than three times.

 

[WickedEve]

I truly lament the loss of good criticism,

Even constructive criticism rarely works at lit. I hardly say much in PC anymore. Mostly, "good poem." And the review thread is only for recommendations, not really reviews, but that was decided by the majority, because there are too many toes to step on at lit. And new, sensitive toes are popping up every day.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Holy Cat Shit~

what was an attempt to help a friend turned
into into a Gladiator Arena?

CLASH OF THE TITANS? <lol>

if some are square dancin and some are
dancing to rock and roll and others doing
the waltz well then you figure it out...<grin>

exceptance ... is so obvious, I have to except
this persons constant feedback to Anon as Anon
does, she did the ignore thing which I assume
is devolped for thin skinned or those a feared ...
this is excepted by all, I except cat's and taths
and jims etc,

what was a post to ask what to do,= the IP block
was suggested and that was worth the post...
the other was to not put said critic in the light
to their numerous screen names and antics
this is done delicatly not point a finger ....which
then leads so many to find fault in one persons
style of writing and views of a certain critic
who finds favor in commenting on her work
for they don't comment on mine and doubt they
will now <grin>

I encourage people to comment and read ...
I do understand how so many who use to
comment don't now, I get PMs and feedback
on the way I critic all the time and I ...as
most know have gotten more than any one
on comments that were not favorable ...but I'm
hard headed or ...determined <grin>

You claim you want good critics back when
I see a good handfull here asking for critics
wicked does ... jim seldom ...twleveoone alot,
sack slowed down too ...reltine I have no
Idea when I stepped on your toe must have
been doing the boogie over your tango ???
anyway ... tath sometimes, did ya'll get tired
...I know I am ...the bombardments from being
a comment whore is tough .... I'm sore <grin>
we have a resource of critics right here ... not
wanting to leave comments is sad, loosing another
poet is sad, loosing the critics is bad... this
place is balanced between writers, readers and
yes critics... readers generally read and say
good job...thats me....I'm no critic, how can I
disect a sonnet when I know not a sonnet
then I get told I'm not a good critic?????<grin>

You want a good critic follow wickeds ways....

two monks walking down the road in the rain
and mud, they see a girl wanting to cross the
muddy road, one monk offers his back and carries
her acroos to the other side then set her down
and walked on... farther down the road , one
monks asks why did you carry that girl that is
not right for us to associate with women and...

the other monk looked at him and said...
"I put her down a long time ago, you are
you still carrying her."

 

[*Catbabe*]

If you want to pretend that this thread was one giant philanthropic defense of your friend then be my guest.

If you can't see that you have a pattern of complaining about criticism/feedback here than that's fine too.

I don't enjoy confrontation contrary to your implication. I can see that you have jumped to your own conclusions and I am not going to waste any more time, since you seem quite content with them.

Good luck to you and your friends MET.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

better one

A monk enters a monastary and takes a
vow of silence, he his able to say two words
every 10 years...his first ten years he goes
before the head monk and is told he can speak
two words, he says..."Bad Food" and goes on ...

the next ten years go by and he goes before
the head monk and is told he is allowed to
say two words....he looks at the head monk
and say ..." I quit!"

The head monk say's "I can see why all
you've ever done is complain!"

 

[*Catbabe*]

Re: better one

A monk enters a monastary and takes a
vow of silence, he his able to say two words
every 10 years...his first ten years he goes
before the head monk and is told he can speak
two words, he says..."Bad Food" and goes on ...

the next ten years go by and he goes before
the head monk and is told he is allowed to
say two words....he looks at the head monk
and say ..." I quit!"

The head monk say's "I can see why all
you've ever done is complain!"

Careful there MET, that's one high horse your riding, saddled with lots of judgment but oddly enough, I don't see any acceptance.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

If you want to pretend that this thread was one giant philanthropic defense of your friend then be my guest.

If you can't see that you have a pattern of complaining about criticism/feedback here than that's fine too.

I don't enjoy confrontation contrary to your implication. I can see that you have jumped to your own conclusions and I am not going to waste any more time, since you seem quite content with them.

Good luck to you and your friends MET.

Thank You Cat~

I have done my share of critic bashing... I have sat
and had this same conversation of soul struck poets
with three people now and it seems to be a never
ending soup of come write read critic then tire...
each voicing their opinions, your you Im me ...

JJW~ "You be right from yourside I'll be right
from mine"

I enjoy good critics don't get me wrong how
can I comment daily...not like myself <laughin'>
anyway your an honorable soul with good
intent I believe, I knew this thread treaded on
rocky soil but I aim to help my friends ..
thats me thats the way I am ... I step
in the line of fire for any of ya as a good
soldier does. I asked for help and got
good advice ...yesterday ... I didn't mean to
fester old wounds or feelings.

I tried to keep the topic centered on the
events going on in this situation as much
as possible, but treads tend to greow into
wild weeds <grin> perhaps we should just
shoot the bad poets, wait I'm on that list <grin>

I know I don't see the solution and some
very good points have been made, as long
as we stay balanced and live with each others
ways then great, co exist in a literary world
who would have thunk it ... uh lit...
I have a sympothetic ear and a soft spot
rub me behind the ear and I purr , I get hungry
my tummy growls, I except that <grin>