Are you allowed to do this?

[Artina Heartflash]

So, if you would prefer that Elfin be a liar for the purposes of personal attack to being dopey, I'm happy with that. But I really think it's because she's dopey--which is a more forgiving conclusion than you point to.

Man, you sure have done research to inform us about legal stuff, SR. (though we can get that info via internet ourselves.) But that doesn't earn you any rights to label another's mentality or demean his/her character. We know you are not the Omniscient One to judge anyone in that respect. Why not drop the name calling? People who resort to such lose my recommendation as source of knowledge.

Anyone who wants to debate the fact I just put up may ask me for copy of SR's PM to me. SR, you assume too much about my character and mentality and heart...and you know me not.

 

[sr71plt]

Man, you sure have done research to inform us about legal stuff, SR. (though we can get that info via internet ourselves.) But that doesn't earn you any rights to label another's mentality or demean his/her character. We know you are not the Omniscient One to judge anyone in that respect. Why not drop the name calling? People who resort to such lose my recommendation as source of knowledge.

Anyone who wants to debate the fact I just put up may ask me for copy of SR's PM to me. SR, you assume too much about my character and mentality and heart...and you know me not.

My, aren't you the myopic one? (And feel free to post our PM exchanges on copyright. The last time this dumb threat was used against me, I posted them myself. Shall we have a go at that? All it shows is how self-delusioned you are about your supposed protections. I obviously was wasting my time trying to help you.)

Elfin has been attacking me from empty air like she did on this thread (posts 21 and 26) for nearly three years. She lays down false premises (here, that Harry Potter was trademarked by the publisher before publication and that the U.S. hasn't signed the Berne Convention) purely to attack me personally. If you can't "get" that, that's your problem.

If she wants to continue acting the fool, I'll be happy to point to it.

It would be interesting to see how you would react to a lying, malicious crazy lady for nearly three years.

As far as you and copyright--you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make her drink. That also is your problem.

 

[lovecraft68]

My, aren't you the myopic one? (And feel free to post our PM exchanges on copyright. The last time this dumb threat was used against me, I posted them myself. Shall we have a go at that? All it shows is how self-delusioned you are about your supposed protections. I obviously was wasting my time trying to help you.)

Elfin has been attacking me from empty air like she did on this thread (posts 21 and 26) for nearly three years. She lays down false premises (here, that Harry Potter was trademarked by the publisher before publication and that the U.S. hasn't signed the Berne Convention) purely to attack me personally. If you can't "get" that, that's your problem.

If she wants to continue acting the fool, I'll be happy to point to it.

It would be interesting to see how you would react to a lying, malicious crazy lady for nearly three years.

As far as you and copyright--you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make her drink. That also is your problem.

So a quick question for you. Why does anyone bother copy writing anything? Your point about legal fees and red tape is valid, and the average person may not have the resources to do so.

This apparently is another example of the thieves and criminals in this country having more rights then the law abiding citizens. However, copyrights must be able to stand up somehow or they would not exist.

I saw something that disturbed me as I registered mine, which seeing it has never been posted anywhere damn well better hold up once I put this up for sale,

When I came to the "checkout" page there is a box to check where they will process this immediately the fee is around $700.

Below there are the situations that apply to it and you have to pick one. One is that you fear being sued.

This bothers me because that means that lets say I stole a story from you that was not copyrighted and you contacted me saying I better get it off whatever site it is on. All I need do is run to this site, pay my money and now you look like a thief.

I know there would be ways around that, but its the point.

End of the day, the pirates or whatever you want to call them live and die by the "I'm not worth it" so they do what they want because people like yourself run around and tell people that it is useless to fight anything, just lie down and take it.

Sorry Pilot, not everyone is like that. I for one would take it all the way, and whether you want to believe it or not have the resources to do so. Principles may not be worth much to you, but they are to some.

 

[sr71plt]

OK, Artina, since you brought up PMs, alluding to some terrible thing I said to you in private, here is the sum total of the content of the PMs I’ve ever sent to you—both in response to PMs from you. I initiated neither of the exchanges. Now, if you will fill in your side of the PMs, your threat to “expose” me through PMs will be complete. Do you want to post them, or do you want me to post them?

This on 16 January in response to your initial PM to me:

At $35 a crack (unless you have bundled them), I think you must be very rich or not too realistic, I'm sorry to say. I know of no instance of a work of erotic--especially one that had been posted for free read on an open Internet site--to have gone to court even if it could. And I can't see a court awarding any damages for an erotica e-book--or worse, a story posted for free read on an open Internet site. Sorry, if you have copyrighted your erotica, I'm afraid you've thrown money away. I keep an eye out for an instance where you actually go to court to protect your material. The main thing not to do in these matters is to fool yourself.

This on 17 January in response to your followup:

Not much legal weight, no. The e-mail doesn't actually acknowledge you contributed to writing the story. "Our story" can be taken in several ways. Beyond that, there's on legal angle on it at all unless one or both of you hold a formal copyright on the book--it can't be taken to court.

That’s it. That’s the sum total of PMs I’ve ever sent to you—both times in response to questions you sent me in PMs. There, would you like me to post your side of the PM exchanges to make the call of your insidious bluff complete?

And do you do this to everyone who you ask for help, who tries to provide reality-based help, and then you don't like what you hear from them?

And as to anyone being able to look these things up with the help of the Internet, that's true, but you obviously didn't (neither does Elfin. She makes it up)--and then you bite the hand of those who do the work for you.

 

[sr71plt]

Lovecraft asks:So a quick question. Why does anyone bother copy writing [sic] anything?

Good question, and it points to the whole ball of wax in where this thread discussion went. You copyright when you have reasonable expectation of suing if your copyright is violated and, more important, of winning the suit and of getting enough (not just money) out of the settlement to make suing reasonable--and without hurting yourself in the process.

THE POINT is that none of that is going to happen with erotica works you have posted for free to the Internet (or, for most folks, even that which you have published to the marketplace without ever posting it to the Internet).

Most people who assume (and talk like) they are actually going to take action are just fooling themselves (and not much of anyone else other than other wishful thinkers).

You have (legally) valued it at zero if you've posted it to the open Internet. You have near zero chance of catching up with the thief and even if you do there is near zero chance that thief has anything to pay (but the court will value the work at zero--because you did--and money won't be an issue). And then, the Internet being what it is, even if you catch up with the thief and someone forces the stolen work to be taken down (which is happening to a certain extent now with bluff and moral suasion--not with anything legal), the thief can just put it up again next week under a new name and make you go through all of that effort to yourself to get back to ground zero.

And for most of us, we're not going to try to go to court in public over erotica we've written (get real).

On top of that, I've seen no instance in any of this getting to court, with or without a formal copyright. History mean anything to you on your chances of being the one to get satisfaction that isn't swamped by the time, effort, expence, and public exposure of doing this?

People copyright their work with good sense because it has legal worth, the thief can be touched and has something in his/her pockets, it doesn't expose the copyright owner to unfavorable/damaging public scrutiny, it's all worth the time, effort, and expense of doing it, and there's precedence of it working.

Erotica--especially erotica posted for free on the Internet--doesn't live in this world.

Holding formal copyright (and getting it before the thief does) might be considered for published erotica that has been shown to have good sales value and that hasn't been posted free on the Internet. It also, if you are rich and understand that it's only got bluff value might be something to bolster your bluff.

The courts aren't chomping at the bit to entertain an Interneted erotica copyright lawsuit. They'll do everything they can to avoid it.

The bottom line, always, though, is that it's great to be able to bluff others away from stealing your work (as is being done to a certain extent with Amazon), but don't bluff yourself by assuming that your hand is stronger than it is.

 

[talismania]

People copyright their work with good sense because it has legal worth, the thief can be touched and has something in his/her pockets, it doesn't expose the copyright owner to unfavorable/damaging public scrutiny, it's all worth the time, effort, and expense of doing it, and there's precedence of it working.

Erotica--especially erotica posted for free on the Internet--doesn't live in this world.

Holding formal copyright (and getting it before the thief does) might be considered for published erotica that has been shown to have good sales value and that hasn't been posted free on the Internet. It also, if you are rich and understand that it's only got bluff value might be something to bolster your bluff.

Bingo. I copyright because I wrote something and like to have a legal document that says so, the fee doesn't hurt my pocketbook, and it's a nice thing to have on the off-chance one of my stories ends up making money someday. I don't copyright thinking it will protect my work from being plagiarized. It only protects it if 1) it's worth something, 2) it's plagiarized by someone with big bucks and is legally accountable to the courts, and 3) I find out about it.

In the latter event, I belong to a family of lawyers. I might never get any money, indeed, I wouldn't expect it, but there's all kinds of fun to be had harassing the plagiarist.

 

[sr71plt]

Bingo. I copyright because I wrote something and like to have a legal document that says so, the fee doesn't hurt my pocketbook, and it's a nice thing to have on the off-chance one of my stories ends up making money someday. I don't copyright thinking it will protect my work from being plagiarized. It only protects it if 1) it's worth something, 2) it's plagiarized by someone with big bucks and is legally accountable to the courts, and 3) I find out about it.

In the latter event, I belong to a family of lawyers. I might never get any money, indeed, I wouldn't expect it, but there's all kinds of fun to be had harassing the plagiarist.

Then you've put some realistic thought rather than uninformed wishful thinking into it. Good for you.

All of my mainstream works (at someone else's expense) and much of my published erotica is copyrighted too. It can be bundled to cut down the expense. I have six novels--a half million words worth--that I managed to copyright as a contiguous series at just the basic $35.

This discussion isn't really to say don't copyright, if you want to. It's to say don't fool yourself how easily it's going to help you in a fire fight.

(if I were a thief, stealing book-length works, I'd file for formal copyright myself. The courts aren't going to do any research--they'll honor the first copyright granted.)

 

[Artina Heartflash]

OK, Artina, since you brought up PMs, alluding to some terrible thing I said to you in private, here is the sum total of the content of the PMs I’ve ever sent to you—both in response to PMs from you. I initiated neither of the exchanges. Now, if you will fill in your side of the PMs, your threat to “expose” me through PMs will be complete. Do you want to post them, or do you want me to post them?

This on 16 January in response to your initial PM to me:

At $35 a crack (unless you have bundled them), I think you must be very rich or not too realistic, I'm sorry to say. I know of no instance of a work of erotic--especially one that had been posted for free read on an open Internet site--to have gone to court even if it could. And I can't see a court awarding any damages for an erotica e-book--or worse, a story posted for free read on an open Internet site. Sorry, if you have copyrighted your erotica, I'm afraid you've thrown money away. I keep an eye out for an instance where you actually go to court to protect your material. The main thing not to do in these matters is to fool yourself.


And do you do this to everyone who you ask for help, who tries to provide reality-based help, and then you don't like what you hear from them?

And as to anyone being able to look these things up with the help of the Internet, that's true, but you obviously didn't (neither does Elfin. She makes it up)--and then you bite the hand of those who do the work for you.

I don't bite the hand of the ones who offer info. Only the hands which offer it with what feels like a slap to my person.

I really admire the ones who want to bring private PMs to public forums. It says a lot about your personal respect, SR. I never offered to place them here to expose you. I offered to send copy of your PM (with mny response) to any one who requested me VIA PM ONLY.

You need not discuss further your second email reply (jan 17), as it did not offend me. TY.

The first reply though seemed to poke at my character in these assumptions:

1) I think you must be very rich or not too realistic, I'm sorry to say.


My response was "I HAVE bundled them," It saved me time and money. To say "YOU MUST BE RICH or NOT TOO REALISTIC..." is an accusation. It was not necessary to even discuss my financial state. I am NOT rich, BTW. It is not your concern, nor your place to ASSume that.

2)To say "YOU MUST BE UNREALISTIC" is another broad accusation/assumption. I did as the LOC suggested: get copyright. That's realistic. I bundled the lit under one 35 dollar copyright, because it is realistically economical.

3) to assume that ALL my work was erotica and posted on this site--- or only free, open sites--- is wrong. Very little of my work is erotica. Very little has been posted on free sites.

again, thank you for trying to feed us info. (i DID say that in this thread AND in PM!) But withhold the assumptions regarding financial stat, the COMPLETE content/category of our writings, the placement of our lit, etc.

Thank you. I will take up no more of the people's time, nor yours, nor mine on this matter. I have better things to do...like seeing what freelance opportunities exist, emailing our US troops in emotional support, writing poetry/prose with friends, etc.

Tah, baby.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't really need to defend anything to you, Artina (and publicizing the PMs was your idea, dear. You just didn't know I'd call your bluff on that). We'll let the readers decipher the PMs. If you think your side of these PMs put the exchange in a light that isn't now changing the goalposts, by all means post them.

In fact, trying to discuss anything with you is like trying to talk at a blank wall.

Again, you asked for help, I provided it (and, yes, what you have highlighted in red is helpful, realistic advice. You just didn't want to hear it), you took a big bite. You obviously want to live in lalalala land. What led up to these PMs (and followed them) was you living in lalalala land and wanting others to join you (which, of course, they are free to do if they wish). How's that call you declared you were going to make to the trademark office going, by the way?

Let me know when you actually do the things you huffily say you're going to do--and let me know how that worked out for you if you had to do more than use them as toothless bluff. Until then, go your own way and don't ask me for any more advice. (If you were so outraged at the tone of the first advice, why did you come back in a PM for more advice?)

 

[sr71plt]

A tune keeps going through my mind. Oh, yes, it's from The Wiz: "Don't Nobody Bring Me No Bad News."

 

[Artina Heartflash]

HEY all just a quick flash:

I just google searched and found one of my story chapters that was posted here recently WAS lifted and posted on a porn site.

"Kinksspark, chapter 3, Cold Blue Kiss" was posted at Lit here for about two months, but on Dec 15 it showed posted at the other porn site. Unathorized posting.


My stories were all removed from Lit today, at my request. This deletion may be the reason why the stolen literature does not appear now when the title is pulled up under "that" site's stories.

Just to show it does still go on... GET YER COPYRIGHTS BEFORE DISPLAYING ON PUBLIC BOARDS.

i DUNNO IF IT WILL DO ANY GOOD, BUT i'LL LET LAUREL KNOW.

 

[sr71plt]

As I posted, it's like talking at a blank wall.

If you post it publicly on the Internet, a formal copyright is functionally useless.