Ask the Poet Guy

[PoetGuy]

Dear twelveoone:

It's good I didn't ask about the colon

Yes, it is.

I suppose it was a rhetorical question.

Poet Guy suspected as much.

How do you fund the time,

With a diversified portfolio of American and international stock index funds, bond index funds, selected individual equities, and substantial fixed-income funds.

That small portion that is invested in real estate has not been working out so well.

and kudos.

Thank you.

PG

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Dear PG
Being of the American pursuasion do you not recognise a 'wind up' when you see one? Some may wish to google this particular English slang as I would hate them to confuse 'A wind up' with 'THE wind up' which is another kettle of fish entirely, one small preposition can make the world of difference in the whole context and cause untold confusion. We English have a very dry sense of humour (spelt correctly) that is often hard for the Americans to comprehend.

I remain yours as ever etc etc UYS

 

[PoetGuy]

Dear PG
Being of the American pursuasion do you not recognise a 'wind up' when you see one? Some may wish to google this particular English slang as I would hate them to confuse 'A wind up' with 'THE wind up' which is another kettle of fish entirely, one small preposition can make the world of difference in the whole context and cause untold confusion. We English have a very dry sense of humour (spelt correctly) that is often hard for the Americans to comprehend.

I remain yours as ever etc etc UYS

Dear UYS:

Poet Guy has dutifully googled (and, in passing, is charmed that this American company name has become an almost universally recognized verb) and found this: If something you do is a 'wind up' it means you are making fun of someone.

Poet Guy is now confused, not the least by your assertion that "one small preposition can make the world of difference in the whole context and cause untold confusion" when, in fact, "a" and "the" are articles.

Whew! Poet Guy now wipes his, obviously, undry brow, not being blessed, as the English seem to be, with malfunctioning sweat glands, and hopes that this small contretemps in that languid pool of poetic harmony that is the Literotica Poetry Feedback & Discussion area is concluded in a flow of mutually liquid phrases.

In closing, Poet Guy might point out that signing messages "UpYoursSincerely" would provoke knife fights in certain parts of the otherwise civilized USA.

Tourist caution.

PG

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Dear UYS:

Poet Guy has dutifully googled (and, in passing, is charmed that this American company name has become an almost universally recognized verb) and found this: If something you do is a 'wind up' it means you are making fun of someone.

Poet Guy is now confused, not the least by your assertion that "one small preposition can make the world of difference in the whole context and cause untold confusion" when, in fact, "a" and "the" are articles.

Whew! Poet Guy now wipes his, obviously, undry brow, not being blessed, as the English seem to be, with malfunctioning sweat glands, and hopes that this small contretemps in that languid pool of poetic harmony that is the Literotica Poetry Feedback & Discussion area is concluded in a flow of mutually liquid phrases.

In closing, Poet Guy might point out that signing messages "UpYoursSincerely" would provoke knife fights in certain parts of the otherwise civilized USA.

Tourist caution.

PG

UnderYourSpell herby and henceforth and not withstanding promises never to make a play on her own initials (UYS) to Poet Guy ever again as teasing (a wind up) does not appear (I admit I could be wrong here) to be in his vocabulary as she does not wish to incur the likelyhood of a knife in her vitals even if it does give him the perfect subject for a rollocking good ballad

 

[HAMFAN]

Interrupting as I am this fine thread

A serious question
I am busy writing a poem (my poems tend to come slow ... or end up coming slower; sometimes they don't come at all and I'm left unsatisfied (my best approximation to being a woman, I suppose; ahhh come on a very small joke) ... anyway, a poem which is either 97% complete or 84% (I am quite precise in my imprecisions) but which raises an ethical problem.
Now I'm not too fussed about

that longing to burn in a fever of sweat
is lust in action, the fuck all life in
a playground of feeling

which is a bit of play on Shakespeare's sonnet. More concerning is

closed tight for a moment
gravely desiring this dead end
looking forward writhing
to the root of all things
binding my mind in a shroud of now
rutting the motionless marathon of thought

"The motionless marathon of thought" is a phrase taken from some poem on Lit which I thought so marvellously evocative (amidst, let it be said ... I'm being judgmental ... a whole heap of declarative stuff that was just dead ... but I was working thru the Lit poetry from the members pages ... some, very few things, just trigger me) ... and this of course did (tho the original author never used it as I did in the anal/ normal sex way). So ... the ethical problem is plagiarism (and I must confess this a problem - I hoard words, phrases that others have used, turning them around in my head ... sometimes whole poems of others ... vrosej, I've got a treatment of When He became Him if you're interested; maybe I could start a thread). What I do with

shrieking cry
of visible air spears
a keen enraptored sky

I just don't know (its a really edited, re-worked, re-worded "enraptored" re-imagined version of another poem on Lit cast into westernised haiku).
So the question is - where does plagiarism begin, where does it end?

A question from my usual puzzled self (hmmm, this is the aspie asking for rule thing ... or maybe the remnants of the academic "references and citations please" habit) and all going not to another but a third person.
It's a worry.

 

[butters]

i'm kinda liking reading that as 'the motionless marrow of thought'

 

[vrosej10]

A serious question
I am busy writing a poem (my poems tend to come slow ... or end up coming slower; sometimes they don't come at all and I'm left unsatisfied (my best approximation to being a woman, I suppose; ahhh come on a very small joke) ... anyway, a poem which is either 97% complete or 84% (I am quite precise in my imprecisions) but which raises an ethical problem.
Now I'm not too fussed about

that longing to burn in a fever of sweat
is lust in action, the fuck all life in
a playground of feeling

which is a bit of play on Shakespeare's sonnet. More concerning is

closed tight for a moment
gravely desiring this dead end
looking forward writhing
to the root of all things
binding my mind in a shroud of now
rutting the motionless marathon of thought

"The motionless marathon of thought" is a phrase taken from some poem on Lit which I thought so marvellously evocative (amidst, let it be said ... I'm being judgmental ... a whole heap of declarative stuff that was just dead ... but I was working thru the Lit poetry from the members pages ... some, very few things, just trigger me) ... and this of course did (tho the original author never used it as I did in the anal/ normal sex way). So ... the ethical problem is plagiarism (and I must confess this a problem - I hoard words, phrases that others have used, turning them around in my head ... sometimes whole poems of others ... vrosej, I've got a treatment of When He became Him if you're interested; maybe I could start a thread). What I do with

shrieking cry
of visible air spears
a keen enraptored sky

I just don't know (its a really edited, re-worked, re-worded "enraptored" re-imagined version of another poem on Lit cast into westernised haiku).
So the question is - where does plagiarism begin, where does it end?

A question from my usual puzzled self (hmmm, this is the aspie asking for rule thing ... or maybe the remnants of the academic "references and citations please" habit) and all going not to another but a third person.
It's a worry.

Go to town Hamfan. I'd love to see what you did with it. In hindsight and given how well Chipbutty got the poem, I reckon I might have written a kind of 'chick's only' poem so a guys take on it might be good. For the record it was me mourning the immanent departure of my son's childhood.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

a cento is all plagiarism but still considered an acceptable form in it's own right

 

[HAMFAN]

a cento is all plagiarism but still considered an acceptable form in it's own right

So what's a "cento"? This incidentally is the poem "The Hawk's Call" My Erotic Tale 2005

circling a hawk above claiming it's domain
around around and the hunting searching
calling loudly out bold that it fly's here
shrieking siren cry that instills pierced fear
sporting warning sounding to all it's prey
soaring scout on a high thermal swift wave
a cry that spears across the fields and stocks
rapture's keen voice the call of a wild hawk

and this is my response

shrieking cry
of visible air spears
a keen enraptored sky

So ... plagiarism? (and "cento")?

 

[twelveoone]

So what's a "cento"? This incidentally is the poem "The Hawk's Call" My Erotic Tale 2005

circling a hawk above claiming it's domain
around around and the hunting searching
calling loudly out bold that it fly's here
shrieking siren cry that instills pierced fear
sporting warning sounding to all it's prey
soaring scout on a high thermal swift wave
a cry that spears across the fields and stocks
rapture's keen voice the call of a wild hawk

and this is my response

shrieking cry
of visible air spears
a keen enraptored sky



So ... plagiarism? (and "cento")?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cento_%28poetry%29
that is a cento,
what you took from MET is nothing, phrases changed, no big deal, and knowing MET he might have stolen it himself, he posted a (not that) nasty poem about me; I'd didn't mind so much, except his best material was stolen from me.
This is not a parody which follow a completely different set of rules both ethically and legally (it is generally know where the material came from and it better be funny of a sorts)
if you take a phrase and it happens to be the best phrase in your poem, that is a big deal.

"The motionless marathon of thought" changing marathon to marrow makes it your own, I'm sure PG would agree on this, and give you that famous quote about borrowing and great poets.
but I don't want to steal his thunder.

 

[HAMFAN]

On thinking

i'm kinda liking reading that as 'the motionless marrow of thought'

First, technical response: the line as stands feels/ rolls around my mouth as balanced - maybe that's just me - and assonanced (marrow doesn't reverbrate with motiON-less nor the earlier ruttINg; marathon does, and it resonates forward -THOn/ THOught)
Two, meaning. Thinking for me is an unending marathon, a continual sense of mental running with no relief in sight; it is never an imagic essence, a marrow. (I once argued that people think only 2% of the time; a friend vehemently disagreed - he saw it as 3%). For me, it does not stop once it is triggered. It's perhaps the reason I've avoided poetry so long; I know what words do to me once they connect. A poetic fragment against my ruin (both exact physical description of "essential tremor" and metaphor) may explain;

Holding the paper
my left hand shakes in essential tremor.
slow at first then more,
a continual shimmer of movement,
stopping only for a moment
when I get another grip.
My right hand hangs unmoving,
rock solid, a monolithic brooding
presence over body unintelligibly
unforcedly silently
still.
I write with my left hand
And all my life is right.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cento_%28poetry%29
that is a cento,
what you took from MET is nothing, phrases changed, no big deal, and knowing MET he might have stolen it himself, he posted a (not that) nasty poem about me; I'd didn't mind so much, except his best material was stolen from me.
This is not a parody which follow a completely different set of rules both ethically and legally (it is generally know where the material came from and it better be funny of a sorts)
if you take a phrase and it happens to be the best phrase in your poem, that is a big deal.

"The motionless marathon of thought" changing marathon to marrow makes it your own, I'm sure PG would agree on this, and give you that famous quote about borrowing and great poets.
but I don't want to steal his thunder.

that explanation of a cento is as clear as mud ..... it's picking the best bits of what someone else has written and putting them together to form another poem

 

[twelveoone]

that explanation of a cento is as clear as mud ..... it's picking the best bits of what someone else has written and putting them together to form another poem

http://poetry.about.com/od/poeticforms/g/cento.htm

there is one quote about theft.... also
http://www.suite101.com/content/how-to-write-a-cento-a8380

found by a simple google search with words Cento and poetry

time elapsed less than a minute

 

[HAMFAN]

My own answer

I think I can answer my own question ... silly ... been such a long time since I read TS Eliot ... who cadged and cribbed relentlessly ... and then we get all those poets who "steal" the everyday sayings of others.
I really have to unstiffen.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

We had to do a cento taken from famous speeches for survivor THIS was mine

 

[bflagsst]

i'm kinda liking reading that as 'the motionless marrow of thought'

Those stale stratagems which bone up the motionless marrow of thought

 

[bflagsst]

Dear PG
Being of the American pursuasion do you not recognise a 'wind up' when you see one? Some may wish to google this particular English slang as I would hate them to confuse 'A wind up' with 'THE wind up' which is another kettle of fish entirely, one small preposition can make the world of difference in the whole context and cause untold confusion. We English have a very dry sense of humour (spelt correctly) that is often hard for the Americans to comprehend.

I remain yours as ever etc etc UYS

I would get mad at someone who I thought just came by to criticize, regardless of their intention. PoetGuy is someone we've read so it's all fun and games for me.

 

[butters]

First, technical response: the line as stands feels/ rolls around my mouth as balanced - maybe that's just me - and assonanced (marrow doesn't reverbrate with motiON-less nor the earlier ruttINg; marathon does, and it resonates forward -THOn/ THOught)

first and foremost, HF, you seem to know very well that no change is worth making unless it feels right to the author of the work. it can alienate one from their own write, and that's not good from where i am standing. having said that, and whilst i agree with your reasoning here, marrow does pick up on the repeated m's, r's and w's throughout the write, creating a soft-link soundwise, as well as the eye-rhyme of 'now', embracing the hard 'o' of 'motionless' and even reaching back to to soft a of 'action'. it's swings and roundabouts, imo.

closed tight for a moment
gravely desiring this dead end
looking forward writhing
to the root of all things
binding my mind in a shroud of now
rutting the motionless marathon of thought

Two, meaning. Thinking for me is an unending marathon, a continual sense of mental running with no relief in sight; it is never an imagic essence, a marrow.

ah, here's the nub. this is the meaning that's important for you, one you have invested in. the inspiration behind your write the reader hasn't that same investment. i like the line; it has balance, it has rhythm, it has the reps of sound that work to reinforce the rutting imagery. the problem i have is not feeling what you are, thrown as i am by the connotations attached to the word marathon in context with the rest of the write. marrow seemed to lend itself more readily to the other sensations elicited by 'shroud of now', 'root of all things', 'closed tight' and 'dead end' - all speaking to me of something inner, enclosed, vital. just a difference of opinion and vive la difference, right?

(I once argued that people think only 2% of the time; a friend vehemently disagreed - he saw it as 3%). For me, it does not stop once it is triggered. It's perhaps the reason I've avoided poetry so long; I know what words do to me once they connect. A poetic fragment against my ruin (both exact physical description of "essential tremor" and metaphor) may explain;

Holding the paper
my left hand shakes in essential tremor.
slow at first then more,
a continual shimmer of movement,
stopping only for a moment
when I get another grip.
My right hand hangs unmoving,
rock solid, a monolithic brooding
presence over body unintelligibly
unforcedly silently
still.
I write with my left hand
And all my life is right.

some great visuals there, HF! your final two lines speak volumes.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I would get mad at someone who I thought just came by to criticize, regardless of their intention. PoetGuy is someone we've read so it's all fun and games for me.

sorry seems my fun and games and teasing have been misconstrued so I'll just piss off ok

 

[twelveoone]

52?
I don't think I've written 52 in four years

so what's your formula?

what brand of muse lure do you use?

 

[PoetGuy]

52?
I don't think I've written 52 in four years

so what's your formula?

what brand of muse lure do you use?

Dear twelveoone:

Poet Guy recommends Acme™ Instant Poetry:

Just add words and water--no inspiration required. Available at discount stores like Wal-Mart and Costco in bulk quantities for quite reasonable prices. Even at tonier shops like the Grolier Book Shop, while pricey, it's a bargain.

PG

 

[butters]

52?
I don't think I've written 52 in four years

so what's your formula?

what brand of muse lure do you use?

oh, for a minute there i thought you were referring to my age
i was at something of a loss as to how to reply, since mathematics and i are not on the best of terms.

 

[Angeline]

oh, for a minute there i thought you were referring to my age
i was at something of a loss as to how to reply, since mathematics and i are not on the best of terms.

You're only four? You kid, you!

And Mista 1201, you can get it used at Alibris for under ten bucks.

 

[teknight]

Dear Poet Guy,
I have a vague question for you, but I'm hoping you'll address both the vagueness and the desired answer (sorry for throwing so much unto your shoulders): how does one improve one's poetry? Is there a process? Are there books? Exercises? Is poetry improvement a vague statement, since, it's not exactly something you can measure...well, barring public reaction, I guess?

Yours truly,
A would be scribbler

 

[PoetGuy]

Dear Poet Guy,
I have a vague question for you, but I'm hoping you'll address both the vagueness and the desired answer (sorry for throwing so much unto your shoulders): how does one improve one's poetry? Is there a process? Are there books? Exercises? Is poetry improvement a vague statement, since, it's not exactly something you can measure...well, barring public reaction, I guess?

Yours truly,
A would be scribbler

Dear teknight:

Poet Guy's shoulders, while not broad, are used to bearing the weight of unanswerable (or not-exactly-answerable) questions.

You ask many questions, some of which are simply (though knavishly) answered, some of which are more difficult. Let's review them, in order:

How does one improve one's poetry?

Poet Guy can recommend only work—first, that you read a lot of poetry, especially poetry recognized as good poetry (though he cannot help much with that distinction) while trying to understand the techniques and themes that make that poetry interesting to the reader; second, that you write a lot of poetry, even if it is bad (which almost all of it will be), as it is Poet Guy's conviction that practice in writing poems, assuming that that practice is done seriously and with the aim of analyzing one's writing for technique and content, is one of the few exercises that can help improve one's poems.

Others may, and perhaps will, disagree, but you asked Poet Guy and that's his opinion.

Is there a process?

Yes. It is called Commitment.

Are there books?

Yes, actually a lot of books. Books may be more helpful for some people than others. Poet Guy has found Ted Kooser's The Poetry Home Repair Manual, Robert Pinsky's The Sound of Poetry, Mary Oliver's A Poetry Handbook, and Kenneth Koch's Making Your Own Days helpful, though simply reading a lot of good poetry and thinking about why it is good is perhaps as helpful.

Exercises?

Yes. See above.

Is poetry improvement a vague statement, since, it's not exactly something you can measure...well, barring public reaction, I guess?

Strictly speaking, yes. What does "improvement" mean? Publication in an online 'zine? Publication in Ploughshares? A Nobel Prize? Personal satisfaction?

Poet Guy thinks you should think over your goals in writing poetry. That will likely help you with how you will judge your progress.

PG