Stella_Omega
No Gentleman
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2005
- Posts
- 39,700
Dude forms his opinions off tumblr, 'nuff said.
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I don't know why they're here? The number of places on the internet where they can get their anti-woman drivel validated outnumbers feminist spaces 10 to 1. I guess it's that there's any at all that just really gets their goat.
Hey, kind of like how Womanthology was sexist, amirite? How dare women do things and also be acutely aware that they are women at the same time, etc.
Or has the perception become:Kinda reminds me of how the way failure and success is framed:
If women succeed, they're successful people. If they fail, they're failed women.
If men succeed, they're successful men. If they fail, it's because failure is normal and they're human and try, try again.
You mean politics has never obscured minority accomplishments before? You mean no Asian, black, older woman, Hispanic, Jew, has ever heard "You ___ all look the same to me?"Or has the perception become:
If women succeeded: affirmative action. If they fail: sexism.
Human accomplishment obscured by politics? Individuals reduced to group labels?
No, i mean its happening to women, as well as to actual statistical minorities.You mean politics has never obscured minority accomplishments before? You mean no Asian, black, older woman, Hispanic, Jew, has ever heard "You ___ all look the same to me?"
It's easy to miss if you're not the girl, or don't have a girl in your life fuming about it afterwards. You might think guys are just being welcoming and helpful when they assume that those geeky girls they have every reason to like /need that help/, even when they've repeatedly demonstrated that they're as (or more) knowledgeable about the subject or skilled in the activity as the guys in question. Look for it consciously, you'll see it.I always read about this stuff but I've never seen it myself. In my experience, geeky guys love when they meet geeky girls, they're still somewhat of a rarity (at least compared to geeky guys). They don't really have a reason to hate on them yet they have a lot of reason to like them. I can imagine some particularly socially inept geeks perhaps coming off as creepy, but I can't imagine any just outright discriminating against girls in the geek scene.
It's easy to miss if you're not the girl, or don't have a girl in your life fuming about it afterwards. You might think guys are just being welcoming and helpful when they assume that those geeky girls they have every reason to like /need that help/, even when they've repeatedly demonstrated that they're as (or more) knowledgeable about the subject or skilled in the activity as the guys in question. Look for it consciously, you'll see it.
But you do bring up a point i'm surprised the OP didn't: geeks make the ah, 'geekplace environment' very uncomfortable for their female counterparts, precisely because they can be so into them, often in very socially inept ways. In the workplace it would be considered sexual harassment.
It is sexual harrassment, often in the workplace.In the workplace it would be considered sexual harassment.
If gender shouldn't matter why should geek women have to pretend they are men? If gender shouldn't matter, why should we assume that all geeks are male by default?The whole "tits or gtfo" thing you get on some corners of the internet is because gender shouldn't matter. That's only brought up when the poster calls herself a "geek girl." You don't see men calling themselves "geek guys" do you? No, because your content should matter, not your gender.
It's obviously something you haven't noticed but why don't you try using female pronouns for a week or two. It will be quite a surprise.And even then, it's something you only really come across on imageboards, it's nowhere near as common as you're making out.
I'm assuming by "ignored" you mean you now can't see my posts so this is directed a general comment more than anything.
What I find really amusing about internet feminists is how they have to spend their time in echo chambers. If someone penetrates their bubbles and presents a contrasting opinion they block it out instead of considering any contracting arguments and arguing back.
Not only is this very childish but it speaks volumes about the validity of modern feminists. If your beliefs cannot stand scrutiny to the extent you need to block out dissenting views to protect it then it's not a valid ideology.
That be all.
Exactly!Personally, I know for a fact that there are as many women losers as there are men. But they don't get the privilege and responsibility of winning and losing as individuals.
It's one thing to have a different opinion, and when you've offered actual proof, being able to be a big enough person to say "Oh, I guess I was wrong. My bad!" and having a different opinion, and when you're offered proof that disproves your opinion as false, you stick your fingers in your ears and say "LA LA LA NOT LISTENING!"
You, in this case, are the latter and not the former. If you were interested in actual debate, you wouldn't be sitting here saying that the geek industry isn't sexist, and you wouldn't be disagreeing with Male Privilege as -real- thing. You wouldn't dismiss the extremely serious issues that women face in the Western world just because "IE women in the middle east have it worse."
Sexism isn't a zero sum game. Just because one group of women have it "worse" than women in, say, America, doesn't mean that sexism in America doesn't exist. It does, and there's a mounting of evidence to back it up. It's your choice to not listen, to ignore it, and to tell women that they shouldn't talk about it.
I think if you have a problem with women talking about those sorts of happenstances, this thread might not be a good place for you.
ETA: I love how you use Feminist as an insult. Feminism is, at it's very core, the shocking idea that women are people. Since you seem to disagree with this premise, perhaps you would feel more comfortable in a space where women were "in their place" instead of feeling socially comfortable enough to speak about issues that DIRECTLY concern them?
So you think there should be limits on gender equality? Where should those limits be? And why do you feel they should be set right there?I support feminism in its original form of simply promoting gender equality. What I don't support is the bastardised modern version promoted today.
So you think there should be limits on gender equality? Where should those limits be? And why do you feel they should be set right there?
I support feminism in its original form of simply promoting gender equality. What I don't support is the bastardised modern version promoted today.
Modern feminism isn't supporting equality, it's more of a conspiracy theory. Feminism in its original form was created when women genuinely had fewer rights than men in Western society, so women wanted to correct that and get the same rights for themselves. That was a good movement. But today that goal was long since been achieved so feminists simply find things to be offended about and rattle on about how the first world is oppressing them as they sit in their comfortable houses with their MacBooks going to university to get a degree in "Gender Studies."
This is my issue. If they were complaining about Middle Eastern cultures where women are genuinely being oppressed today then I would be supporting the movement. But they aren't. They focus on either petty issues or made up ones.
So you're the kind of person that hasn't actually spent time within the Feminist movement to see what third wave feminism is about, you're just basing your ideas around the little you see on the internet/tv/other media.
I've met quite a few men like yourself, who think that modern feminists are just hairy-legged man-hating cat-hoarding feminazis whose "real goals" are female supremacy and "rights without responsibilities". Sometimes, I offer myself as a person who works within the Feminist movement as someone they can talk to to get a REAL idea of what Feminism is like.
I've changed minds, and altered perceptions about modern feminism. A lot of times, those men thought that the vocal minority was the voice of the far more moderate majority, and were so scared off by it that they didn't bother seeking out a deeper understanding or education.
I think that kind of attitude is like saying "All Christians are Westboro Baptist Members" and "All Muslims are Terrorists" and "All Vegans work at PETA". It's not factual, just a product of the media loving to give the mic to the loudest crazy person for ratings.
If you REALLY want to have a real conversation with modern feminists, stick around. If you've made up your mind about Feminism and won't allow yourself to be open minded enough to have your mind changed, don't be surprised when no one wants to talk with you.
Petty issues.
Really? What are the petty issues and made up issues? Can you give examples of those, please?
Sexism isn't a zero sum game. Just because one group of women have it "worse" than women in, say, America, doesn't mean that sexism in America doesn't exist. It does, and there's a mountain of evidence to back it up. It's your choice to not listen, to ignore it, and to tell women that they shouldn't talk about it.
An inept attempt to get laid?What's the intention behind this though?
Both. When the excuse is to assume ineptitude. It's pretty consistent. Geeky guys don't come up to girl geeks with questions and bask in their erudition, they treat them like clueless nubes.Are they really implying the women are stupid or are they just looking for an excuse to socialise and get to know her better and find common interests?
Edit: thought better of touching this one.After all there is a high correlation of geekiness with autism.
Whether it's done with malice or not doesn't change the fact that it's a negative pattern and should be worked against.But this is not reflective of any "privilege" nor is it done out of malice. It's just a certain group of people being bad at socialising.
An inept attempt to get laid?
Whether it's done with malice or not doesn't change the fact that it's a negative pattern and should be worked against.
In a way, it's also the broader cultural gender stereotypes invading a sub-culture that should be more resistant to them. Traditional gender roles tell men that they should demonstrate competence (if not superiority) to attract the attention of women. When a geeky guy starts lecturing a geeky girl about stuff she already knows, maybe he's just trying to establish that competence within the context of that shared interest. Which sucks, because geek culture is not exactly macho, and a woman could be forgiven for thinking that she might not have to put up with that kind of bullshit when participating in it.
What's funny is that when someone says that Western women have it made and we shouldn't be complaining because of all those poor, brown third world women, it's pretty safe to assume that they don't actually know the first thing about third world feminism, haven't read the writings of any feminists in developing countries and what it actually means to fight for women's rights elsewhere. Basically, it's racism, Western exceptionalism, and good ol' sexism all wrapped up in a thin veneer of genuine concern.
It's the zero-responsibility card. You get to say you're all for women's right, but gosh darnit, all the real oppressed women are just so far away, and none of them speak English probably, that there's really nothing that I, the enlightened white savior, can actually do for them except tell American feminists that they're wrong.
Putting words in my mouth once again. I have not made any comments on the personal lifestyles or appearances of feminists at all, nor have I claimed they are trying to fight for female superiority.
You've not done such a good job so far. I presented arguments, I received insults in the place of counterarguments, and that's about it.
If you are willing to explain to me exactly what rights men have which women do not in first world society then I am willing to listen.
Because it's in response to a double-standard. Traditional society maintains that women who openly express their sexuality and bag multiple partners are 'sluts' (and that there's something wrong with that), but that men who do the same are 'studs' (and that's awesome, if not exactly respectable). Countering that means applying the opposite double-standard: encouraging women to get down with their hot selves, while simultaneously getting men to keep it in their pants.I find this kind of thing amusing. Feminism states that women should not be "slut shamed" and I agree fully. But they then turn around and look down on men who seek sex even though they glorify women for doing the same. Why the double standard?
No, if it were just that, if there were no gender factor, then they'd be ineptly feigning ignorance ("This is so interesting, tell me more! Oh! I never thought of it that way, you're sooo insightful!") as often as ineptly asserting false superiority.But isn't this just a demonstration of poor socialising skills? It's not uncommon for someone who is bad at socialising to simply talk on and on about their own interests without engaging in proper conversation. It's a symptom of aforementioned autism in fact. And if a socially inept guy is talking to a girl, it's safe to assume he will feel more nervous than if he was chatting to a guy, so his socialising skills will appear even more impaired.