Breastfeeding Doll?

[Ransack]

I have a deep attraction to the lactation fetish, the thought or sight of a woman who can produce milk is very erotic for me so right of the bat I personally sexualize breast milk. However I just watched the video story on the doll and I think it's adorable, especially considering little girls have dolls that piss themselves this seems pretty wholesome to me. The video quotes an online poll that 70% of people said the doll "forces" little girls to grow up too soon...thats just silly. The more you try to hide or suppress something the dirtier and nastier it is seen, it's a natural by product, is that what people want to do to a mother and child bonding?

 

[fire_breeze]

<snip>
I agree it's ridiculous to pigeonhole and label kids. And I hate how just about everything is either "girl" or "boy" these days. I've really tried to get gender-neutral stuff when I can (partly because I don't want to push gender roles on our son, and also because I'd like to reuse stuff if we have a girl), but it's extremely difficult to find wearables in neutral colors and patterns. I will say that I greatly appreciate the way my parents raised me to enjoy a wide variety of activities. I had the Barbie Dream House and makeup, but I also had Tonka trucks and loved to get dirty and build stuff. I hope we can present our kid(s) with balanced views, and if our son wants to paint his toenails or play with makeup at home, that's fine with both of us.

Amen! Trying to buy toys for my youngest nephew and niece has been a hassle and a half. Thank Gods for blues, greens, yellows, reds and artsy stuff.

I have a deep attraction to the lactation fetish, the thought or sight of a woman who can produce milk is very erotic for me so right of the bat I personally sexualize breast milk. However I just watched the video story on the doll and I think it's adorable, especially considering little girls have dolls that piss themselves this seems pretty wholesome to me. The video quotes an online poll that 70% of people said the doll "forces" little girls to grow up too soon...thats just silly. The more you try to hide or suppress something the dirtier and nastier it is seen, it's a natural by product, is that what people want to do to a mother and child bonding?

And what about forcing it? Wouldn't that have the same effect as suppressing it? There are middle grounds.

I personally think that there's a world of difference between having something natural happen naturally and having it forced upon a child. For example, a body is natural. If, as a child, I felt like running around naked, I did, but in the house or backyard. My parents explained to me that my body is my body, and that I could be naked, but to be mindful and respectful to others, so I grew up with a pretty healthy outlook on nudity. However, if I was forced to run around naked, then I really would hate my body and think nudity is something to be forced upon.

I know that this example is tenuous at best, but I see these breast feeding dolls as something that would be 'forced' upon a little girl, as opposed to her using her imagination. Like many posters with little girls wrote, they picked breast feeding up from their Mothers without the use of special halters and sucking babies, just by playing an imitating. I truly believe that these girls have a more healthy attitude to breast feeding than the specially created dolls could ever provide.

But then again, I probably should keep my mouth shut...

 

[bailadora]

But then again, I probably should keep my mouth shut...

Pffft....please. I quite enjoy your commentary.

 

[satindesire]

Amen! Trying to buy toys for my youngest nephew and niece has been a hassle and a half. Thank Gods for blues, greens, yellows, reds and artsy stuff.


And what about forcing it? Wouldn't that have the same effect as suppressing it? There are middle grounds.

I personally think that there's a world of difference between having something natural happen naturally and having it forced upon a child. For example, a body is natural. If, as a child, I felt like running around naked, I did, but in the house or backyard. My parents explained to me that my body is my body, and that I could be naked, but to be mindful and respectful to others, so I grew up with a pretty healthy outlook on nudity. However, if I was forced to run around naked, then I really would hate my body and think nudity is something to be forced upon.

I know that this example is tenuous at best, but I see these breast feeding dolls as something that would be 'forced' upon a little girl, as opposed to her using her imagination. Like many posters with little girls wrote, they picked breast feeding up from their Mothers without the use of special halters and sucking babies, just by playing an imitating. I truly believe that these girls have a more healthy attitude to breast feeding than the specially created dolls could ever provide.

But then again, I probably should keep my mouth shut...

In that scenario, you're also assuming that a child is impressionable enough, or perhaps mindless enough, to go along with what a toy shows them without having any imagination or creative process of their own, without growing up and forgetting about the toy, losing interest in the toy or breaking it, and then becoming an adult still totally influenced by this toy.

Toys don't brainwash kids, in my opinion. I took my barbies and played "War" with them with my GI Joes, I built sand castles with my stuffed animals. Toys aren't always used perfectly to their express built intent without any imagination or creativity on the child's part. Just because Toy X is build do to ABC doesn't mean the kid will use it for ABC alone. The kid might also use Toy X for QRST, LMNO, and a little FGH too.

In my opinion, a breastfeeding doll won't brainwash a child into thinking breastfeeding (almost two decades away from happening let's note) is the ONLY way to feed a baby and then that brainwashing sticking to adulthood.

I don't remember a quarter of the toys I had when I was a child, and I'm pretty sure none of them affected me in a negative fashion as an adult due to exposure to them.

I'm just one example but I think it counts for something. Unless the kid is basically too stupid to make it on their own in the adult world once they grow up, because they're so highly impressionable, thinking breastfeeding is best is the LEAST of their worries.

If toys can force a child to have an opinion that will stick with them to adulthood, then no toy is safe to give him. You give him a red ball, and you risk brainwashing him to think that the only balls that are acceptable to play with are red, do you see the slippery slope there? We can't be scared of letting our children be exposed to toys that "DO STUFF" for a faraway fear that they might really like what the toy does.

 

[infinity706]

When I was a kid, I actually played with tons of dolls, cooking toys, wore a dress a few times, and even had a couple pink outfits. It didn't make me gay or transexual, though. I still like women quite a lot even though half the internet thinks I am one.

 

[fire_breeze]

In that scenario, you're also assuming that a child is impressionable enough, or perhaps mindless enough, to go along with what a toy shows them without having any imagination or creative process of their own, without growing up and forgetting about the toy, losing interest in the toy or breaking it, and then becoming an adult still totally influenced by this toy.

Toys don't brainwash kids, in my opinion. I took my barbies and played "War" with them with my GI Joes, I built sand castles with my stuffed animals. Toys aren't always used perfectly to their express built intent without any imagination or creativity on the child's part. Just because Toy X is build do to ABC doesn't mean the kid will use it for ABC alone. The kid might also use Toy X for QRST, LMNO, and a little FGH too.

In my opinion, a breastfeeding doll won't brainwash a child into thinking breastfeeding (almost two decades away from happening let's note) is the ONLY way to feed a baby and then that brainwashing sticking to adulthood.

I don't remember a quarter of the toys I had when I was a child, and I'm pretty sure none of them affected me in a negative fashion as an adult due to exposure to them.

I'm just one example but I think it counts for something. Unless the kid is basically too stupid to make it on their own in the adult world once they grow up, because they're so highly impressionable, thinking breastfeeding is best is the LEAST of their worries.

If toys can force a child to have an opinion that will stick with them to adulthood, then no toy is safe to give him. You give him a red ball, and you risk brainwashing him to think that the only balls that are acceptable to play with are red, do you see the slippery slope there? We can't be scared of letting our children be exposed to toys that "DO STUFF" for a faraway fear that they might really like what the toy does.

Hmm... you bring up several very interesting points, and rereading what I have written, I have to concede that the word 'force' is not only harsh, but also completely inaccurate. Thank you .

Are children stupid? Gods no. They are very very intelligent and incredibly insightful. But, I do stand by the fact that children are impressionable (that's the word!) and can be influenced through their toys. So are adults, by the way. It takes time to develop conscious critical thinking. Again, while I am not a parent, I did work closely with children many years, and I'm a devoted auntie who's more of a second mother. Furthermore, there have been studies the whole nurture versus nature debate which indicates that the nurture is just as strong - if not stronger - than nature along with the idea that we are all influenced by what we see around us. And THAT was playing in the back of my mind when I read the article. There is something that rubs me the wrong way about this particular toy. It's not the breast feeding, and I wish that I could point out what it is. Maybe because these companies are not encouraging fantasy and play? I don't know.

If kids use toys for Y instead of X (and you brought up some wonderful memories, Satin, thank you!), then why create a toy with a shirt that specifically made for breast feeding? Why not have a toy that does the same thing, but without the halter top? Are we telling girls that they can only be Mothers, and not chose? And where do boys fit in? Play is about exploring the world. Do we have to dictate or can we give them the freedom to play and explore in their own way? This toy generates more questions, which is, essentially, a very good thing.

What I think gave me pause is that this toy is specifically made. It's not the breast feeding, or that they enjoy it. If they want to breast feed their teddy bears, I don't think it'll create furries. Add that to my cynicism of why must we create such things for the sole purpose of marketing has me pausing, that's all. Again, I'd like to reiterate many many times that I am only speaking from the point of view as an outside observer, albeit an involved one, and would like to point out that in no way do I think we should ban children who play breast feeding their dolls or playing with the 'other' genders toys, hells, I've played with Tonka trucks and hammers and turned out to be very feminine, and my brother played with dolls and became a soldier and pretty masculine . So it's not that. It's the specific halter top that rubs me wrong. I wonder if we are giving children the freedom to explore their world in the way they need and want to. And I just realised that I'm not making sense. I think I'd better stop before I inadvertently offend someone .

In any case, it's pure marketing genius.

Bah! Satin, you're making me think at an unGodly hour!!! Thank you! :rose

Pffft....please. I quite enjoy your commentary.

Thank you... it's been interesting to read the comments, and the various perspectives.

 

[satindesire]

You raise a lot of good points Fire, and I can totally see your perspective. It can look like the toy is too "specialty" or specialized and limit creativity on the part of the child who owns it. I think in reality, though, pretty much all kids use their toys for things the toys weren't created intentionally for and just because the toy can simulate breastfeeding, doesn't mean the doll won't be used for lots of other types of play.

 

[bailadora]

<snip> I think in reality, though, pretty much all kids use their toys for things the toys weren't created intentionally for ....

True enough. Want to know how many guns my son has formed from his roller coaster K'nex set?

 

[satindesire]

True enough. Want to know how many guns my son has formed from his roller coaster K'nex set?

Well, boys will be boys!

 

[RNJAG]

If I can add my 0.002cents.....

I dont think it sexualises young girls. What concerns me is that at a much too young age it is encouraging a more mature behavior that has many other connotations that are attached to it. I could be totally wrong but I dont think young kids need to be encouraged to grow up any faster than they already are. 8-10-12 yr olds will want to be mothers and yes some of them will (already have) become pregnant with out the slightest idea of the responsibilities, obligations or capability of raising a child. This may seem rather extreme to many, but there are lots of kids out there that are not being parented properly to start with that arent getting the proper upbringing that they need.

I guess what I am saying that next to giving birth; breast feeding is the most natural thing that a mother could partake in. It is a natural part of "development" that a girl goes through as she becomes a woman and yes most young girls know what breasts are for and why they have them and that they will develop as they get older. My worry is that this doll will encourage some to develop prematurely. I dont mean physically, obviously, I worry about even younger girls being in that much more of a hurry to grow up and be a mommy. To me there are enough underage young mothers (kids having kids) that I surely wouldn't want to do anything that could push that envelop farther.
As I re-read this I am not saying that it would promote promiscuous behavior.

Maybe as a dad this is me just being over protective...Anyone understand what I am trying to say?

 

[satindesire]

If I can add my 0.002cents.....

I dont think it sexualises young girls. What concerns me is that at a much too young age it is encouraging a more mature behavior that has many other connotations that are attached to it. I could be totally wrong but I dont think young kids need to be encouraged to grow up any faster than they already are. 8-10-12 yr olds will want to be mothers and yes some of them will (already have) become pregnant with out the slightest idea of the responsibilities, obligations or capability of raising a child. This may seem rather extreme to many, but there are lots of kids out there that are not being parented properly to start with that arent getting the proper upbringing that they need.

I guess what I am saying that next to giving birth; breast feeding is the most natural thing that a mother could partake in. It is a natural part of "development" that a girl goes through as she becomes a woman and yes most young girls know what breasts are for and why they have them and that they will develop as they get older. My worry is that this doll will encourage some to develop prematurely. I dont mean physically, obviously, I worry about even younger girls being in that much more of a hurry to grow up and be a mommy. To me there are enough underage young mothers (kids having kids) that I surely wouldn't want to do anything that could push that envelop farther.
As I re-read this I am not saying that it would promote promiscuous behavior.

Maybe as a dad this is me just being over protective...Anyone understand what I am trying to say?

I understand what you're trying to say, but if this were truth, keeping kids in the dark about all kinds of sexuality and adult behavior would prevent them from doing said adult behavior. Sadly, this isn't reality. It's a nice fantasy to "let kids be kids" but teaching them about healthy sexuality, safe sex, puberty and other things that happen when they start growing up is the only way to PREVENT early maturation when it comes to sexuality.

Education means prevention, not trying things early just because they learned about it. The places on this planet that have piss poor sexual education and problems with teaching children about "adult stuff" are the ones who have the worst rates of teen pregnancy, STD crises, and other problems with kids experimenting with adult situations too early.

When you educate your child about growing up in a healthy way, it prevents them from doing just that. Keeping your kids in the dark just means they'll get their information by TRYING and DOING, which is exactly the opposite of what we need.

 

[RNJAG]

SatinDesire, I am absolutely 1000% for educating kids. Best way to keep them safe. One thing I have learned is to give only the amount of information they need in the ccontext they can understand. With this in mind this doll could be an excellent tool to help educate young girls. The doll could be a supplement to the education and vice versa. But buy itself with out the proper learning to go along with it I can see it not as healthy as a lot of proponents would like to portray.

I think we more or less trying to say the same thing.

 

[SweetErika]

If I can add my 0.002cents.....

I dont think it sexualises young girls. What concerns me is that at a much too young age it is encouraging a more mature behavior that has many other connotations that are attached to it. I could be totally wrong but I dont think young kids need to be encouraged to grow up any faster than they already are. 8-10-12 yr olds will want to be mothers and yes some of them will (already have) become pregnant with out the slightest idea of the responsibilities, obligations or capability of raising a child. This may seem rather extreme to many, but there are lots of kids out there that are not being parented properly to start with that arent getting the proper upbringing that they need.

I guess what I am saying that next to giving birth; breast feeding is the most natural thing that a mother could partake in. It is a natural part of "development" that a girl goes through as she becomes a woman and yes most young girls know what breasts are for and why they have them and that they will develop as they get older. My worry is that this doll will encourage some to develop prematurely. I dont mean physically, obviously, I worry about even younger girls being in that much more of a hurry to grow up and be a mommy. To me there are enough underage young mothers (kids having kids) that I surely wouldn't want to do anything that could push that envelop farther.
As I re-read this I am not saying that it would promote promiscuous behavior.

Maybe as a dad this is me just being over protective...Anyone understand what I am trying to say?

I understand what you're saying, but I don't understand how a doll increases the chance of teen/young pregnancy or motherhood. And, specifically, how does a breastfeeding doll encourage teen pregnancy over a bottlefeeding doll?

The research says that mothers of mothers are the biggest factor in breastfeeding. For example, my mom was very pro-breastfeeding, so I grew up being positive I wanted to nurse my own child(ren). Similarly, the age of the mother's mom has a huge influence on teen/young pregnancy; young mothers typically produce young moms, and older mothers typically have daughters who wait longer to have babies. None of this has anything to do with dolls, or any other toys.

Additionally, teen mothers are far LESS likely to breastfeed (the figures range from about 18-43% for teens vs. about 65% for older women, depending on how they're calculated). However, breastfeeding is particularly important for babies of teen mothers health- and development-wise. So if a girl is going to become a young mom (due to her own family structure, education, immaturity, peer pressure, etc.), isn't it better to instill the wholesomeness of breastfeeding from a young age?

 

[RNJAG]

As I've said I am absolutely for education. I never said I was against breast feeding. Fyi I am 100% for breast feeding. I am not for encouraging it to a person that has not learned the overall bigger picture. As in my last post I said if utilized with proper education it would be an excellent tool. No where have I said i was against breast feeding. The obvious benefits of breastfeeding, to me, isn't the issue here.

I think where I was coming from or my worry is that an immature girl after having a doll like this may feel like she is suitable to be a mother because it is easy to do with this doll and may think less seriously or more easily encouraged to have sex or may somehow wish to fullfill something she perceives with in herself.

 

[SweetErika]

I think where I was coming from or my worry is that an immature girl after having a doll like this may feel like she is suitable to be a mother because it is easy to do with this doll and may think less seriously or more easily encouraged to have sex or may somehow wish to fullfill something she perceives with in herself.

I get that. My question to you was how does this doll encourage motherhood more than a doll that is bottle-fed? IOW, do you have the same concerns over dolls that little kids feed with bottles, or are your concerns specific to this breastfeeding doll? And if they are specific to the breastfeeding doll, why is that?

I'm not trying to harass you; I just honestly don't understand how a breastfeeding doll encourages motherhood more than a bottlefeeding doll.

 

[satindesire]

I get that. My question to you was how does this doll encourage motherhood more than a doll that is bottle-fed? IOW, do you have the same concerns over dolls that little kids feed with bottles, or are your concerns specific to this breastfeeding doll? And if they are specific to the breastfeeding doll, why is that?

I'm not trying to harass you; I just honestly don't understand how a breastfeeding doll encourages motherhood more than a bottlefeeding doll.

I think his deal is the fact that a lot of people sexualize breastfeeding because breasts are sexualized, which is something I have yet to comprehend. Hopefully he'll come back and explain some more, because I'm curious as well.

 

[bailadora]

I think his deal is the fact that a lot of people sexualize breastfeeding because breasts are sexualized, which is something I have yet to comprehend.

Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Because breasts are sexualized to the extent they are in society, I think some people have difficulty removing sexual concepts from most things breast related. Never mind that feeding the young of the species IS the original function and purpose of the mammary glands.

 

[infinity706]

I think his deal is the fact that a lot of people sexualize breastfeeding because breasts are sexualized, which is something I have yet to comprehend. Hopefully he'll come back and explain some more, because I'm curious as well.

I can totally understand breasts being sexualized. In many cases, they're some of the most sexually resposive parts of a person's body to the point that some men and women even orgasm. What I can't understand is why only adult women's breasts are sexualized. It's not like all that many people desire to consume breast milk as part of sex.

 

[Eilan]

Additionally, teen mothers are far LESS likely to breastfeed (the figures range from about 18-43% for teens vs. about 65% for older women, depending on how they're calculated). However, breastfeeding is particularly important for babies of teen mothers health- and development-wise. So if a girl is going to become a young mom (due to her own family structure, education, immaturity, peer pressure, etc.), isn't it better to instill the wholesomeness of breastfeeding from a young age?

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but where I live, a lot of young and/or lower-income mothers choose to formula-feed because WIC will pay for formula. Never mind that WIC also pays for healthy food for nursing moms.

 

[Bottomlover]

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but where I live, a lot of young and/or lower-income mothers choose to formula-feed because WIC will pay for formula. Never mind that WIC also pays for healthy food for nursing moms.

In certain cultures in cities near here, being able to buy formula is considered to be a status symbol (I guess it means you don't have to sell the WIC supplied formula to buy tobacco and alcohol) . The supermarkets keep formula under lock and key.

 

[Athalia]

Additionally, teen mothers are far LESS likely to breastfeed (the figures range from about 18-43% for teens vs. about 65% for older women, depending on how they're calculated).

Hmm. I wonder how much of that is cultural ... that minority women tend to marry younger, and are also less aware of the advantages of breastfeeding and/or more fearful of what breastfeeding may do to their looks.

And I know quite a few working women who have decided to go the formula route because it's easier to do that than to mess with breast pumps and milk storage. I would guess that there are a lot more young working mothers in minority communities than in more affluent communities.

I remember the Nestle corporation relentlessly promoting formula feeding over breastfeeding in third world countries some years ago. It was, of course, a callous attempt to make a buck, although they promoted it as the "modern and convenient" thing to do. Are they doing that now in African-American or Latino communities in the US now?

 

[bailadora]

Hmm. I wonder how much of that is cultural ... that minority women tend to marry younger, and are also less aware of the advantages of breastfeeding and/or more fearful of what breastfeeding may do to their looks.?

Now see - I went in a totally different direction: I wondered if it was an issue of well....maturity, to be quite honest.

Teens aren't always known for their patience or perseverance and breastfeeding can be fucking hard work to establish and maintain.

I'm not saying it's not worth it when you can make it happen, but I wonder how many choose to bottle feed because it's just plain easier to deal with from some perspectives.

 

[RNJAG]

It is not conducive to their age appropriate development. Mimicking bottle feeding is mechanical like a boy playing with plastic hammers and workbench.

Since the beginning of the human race women have not had any problems figuring out what the function of their breasts are and how to utilize them. Giving a 2-4-6-8 10 yr old a baby to breast feed is beyond their psychological development. There is more to breast feeding than putting a baby to your breast.

Using the same logic and argument then lets come out with plastic little tampons that girls can pretend with and little rubber condoms for boys. They must be missing out on something if they dont have these items either!?

It is no more age appropriate or benificial to their emotional, physiological or psychological development than children pretending to breast feed. It will certainly not be detrimental to them if they don't have them. There are certainly more age appropriate (and educational) toys/tools that they will benefit from than a breast feeding doll.

 

[satindesire]

It is not conducive to their age appropriate development. Mimicking bottle feeding is mechanical like a boy playing with plastic hammers and workbench.

Since the beginning of the human race women have not had any problems figuring out what the function of their breasts are and how to utilize them. Giving a 2-4-6-8 10 yr old a baby to breast feed is beyond their psychological development. There is more to breast feeding than putting a baby to your breast.

Using the same logic and argument then lets come out with plastic little tampons that girls can pretend with and little rubber condoms for boys. They must be missing out on something if they dont have these items either!?

It is no more age appropriate or benificial to their emotional, physiological or psychological development than children pretending to breast feed. It will certainly not be detrimental to them if they don't have them. There are certainly more age appropriate (and educational) toys/tools that they will benefit from than a breast feeding doll.

There is a flaw in your logic. You are fundamentally sexualizing breastfeeding. BREASTFEEDING IS NOT SEXUAL. Period.

You're putting an adult perspective into a child's brain and children simply do not think that way.

The minute we stop thinking of tits as nothing but big sweater fillers that make boys go cross eyed is the minute we mature more as a species.

Is Barbie age appropriate development? Barbie has breasts. Barbie has gotten married before. Don't married people have sex? Perhaps we should take her off the market too.

What about all dolls in general? Don't they encourage the fantasy of motherhood to little girls? Well, most women have to have sex to get pregnant, perhaps we should take all baby dolls off the market too.

Do you see how this is a VERY slippery slope fueled by your own misconceptions and paranoia and no way close to the reality of toys to children?

 

[RNJAG]

SatinDesire,

No where at no time did I make this a "sexual" issue. All I've said is that I am of the opinion that it is not an age appropriate product conducive to a young girls psychogical and maturation development. Nothing sexual about that at all.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.