...but I don't have to like it!

[fuckmeat]

I wasn't saying that while PYL's like us to do things that we don't like to do, that it's okay to have a bad attitude about doing it.

This is actually something I'm working on with my kids. If I ask one of them to do something, and they do it with a bad attitude, I keep asking them to do more stuff for me until I get the proper attitude. That doesn't mean that I expect them to be all 'oh boy! i get to . . .', it means I want a 'yes, mommy' instead of a 'but mom! i don't wanna! why do I always have to help you? why can't sister or brother? i want to watch tv! it's in the middle of my show, and i never get to watch tv!' If it's not okay for my kids to act that way, it sure as hell isn't okay for me to act that way.

For instance; when K had his hernia surgery I set my alarm every night to go off every four hours so I could give him his pain meds. Do I like getting up every four hours? Hell, no. I did not complain, though, because that's bad manners. I guess what it boils down to is attitude. I'm gonna have to do whatever it is, I might as well do it with grace and maturity.

I don't have a bad attitude, because I do want to serve. Occasionally I used to try and get out of an unpleasant task or put it off till later. I learned quickly that that wasn't a good idea.

 

[Adakgirl]

Is it enough just to follow commands? Are you expected to like it, because the PYL wants it?

Or do you do many things grudgingly, accept PYLs tasks and get on with it?

Is it enough to just follow commands? As in responding in a robotic manner to commands? In my opinion the answer is no, it is not enough.

Expected to like it? Again no, doesn't really make any difference if you like it or not, because it's most likely going happen anyway. I don''t agree with pretending that you enjoy something sexually, when you really don't. Faking pleasure just because your PLY expects you to enjoy it, because to me that's being dishonest. It's just the same as lying.
A submissive may not like something, may not take pleasure in it, but should still be able to take pleasure from submitting to it regardless.
It's all in the mind and submitting to things I abhor is what makes my submissive heart go pitterpatter the hardest.


If your PLY asks it of you and you know you are going to have to do it whether you like it or not, then whats the point in doing it grudgingly? Might as well learn to like it and to do it with a good attitude. Doing it begrudgingly with a frown and a bad attitude, is destructive in my opinion.

 

[eastern sun]

One thing I like about the experience of submission is the way it frequently requires me to cross boundaries that I thought were fixed. Occasionally those experiences are ecstatic and thrilling. Usually they are uncomfortable and, at worst, trivial and boring.

I have had all kinds of reactions to doing things I don't enjoy, from eagerness, to sullen obedience, to resignation, to stubborn refusal, to pleasant and gracious acceptance and compliance. He only likes what gives him what he's looking for - and often I am not the best judge of what he wants.

My least favorite experiences are when I display discomfort and he stops the activity and walks away; though even then I've felt relief in certain circumstances.

I don't feel like I am required to do anything other than accept the power relationship that exists. And people normally respond to people with authority in many, many ways. I do not feel as though I am required to be anything other than myself. I just have to accept the consequences of my reaction.

 

[Seurat]

Not to hijack the thread. but where would this fall in a pain vs. hurt philosophy?

I mean, pain can be good (as, I think, many of us know) but 'hurt' can be very harmful. We talk about testing, pushing, and crossing the lines often; what if crossing (or even approaching) the line moved the act from pain to hurt? Would you, as a sub, still do it?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Not to hijack the thread. but where would this fall in a pain vs. hurt philosophy?

I mean, pain can be good (as, I think, many of us know) but 'hurt' can be very harmful. We talk about testing, pushing, and crossing the lines often; what if crossing (or even approaching) the line moved the act from pain to hurt? Would you, as a sub, still do it?

No. I don't think so.

Hurt is not a good thing.

 

[eastern sun]

Not to hijack the thread. but where would this fall in a pain vs. hurt philosophy?

I mean, pain can be good (as, I think, many of us know) but 'hurt' can be very harmful. We talk about testing, pushing, and crossing the lines often; what if crossing (or even approaching) the line moved the act from pain to hurt? Would you, as a sub, still do it?

Unfortunately, I don't think you know for certain that something will damage you until you've done it.* You can be afraid that it will, and a lot of our "hard limits" are based on that fear.

Sometimes, though, I've found what I thought would be damaging wasn't, when I actually did it. Sometimes, I've found what I thought would be GREAT was actually damaging in the long run.

We face potentially damaging experiences all the time. (Just look at our school systems!) Our ability to do damage control in those moments is much more important than our ability to avoid them altogether.

An interesting life, in my opinion, is not risk-free.


*I'm going to assume I don't need a disclaimer with a long list of obviously "damaging" things like murder and dismemberment here.

 

[Homburg]

An interesting life, in my opinion, is not risk-free.

This, very much so.

 

[Black_Bunny]

We talk about testing, pushing, and crossing the lines often; what if crossing (or even approaching) the line moved the act from pain to hurt? Would you, as a sub, still do it?

I would. Because I also believe you wouldn't know it was crossing the line into 'hurt' until it was done. It's not my job to know where that line is, that's my Dominant's responsibility. (In talking of pain becoming hurt, I'm too high to know what the hell is going on. I couldn't possibly understand my body enough at the time to stop him. I'd only know once it was done.) He'd never forgive himself if he crossed that line, and I trust him to take great care that he doesn't.

 

[FloggingMolly]

I think for me, its all still quite new, and getting to that place where I accept command without a feeling of 'I'll do it, but you can't make me like it' isn't as automatic as I expected.

What primarily made me think of this topic was something that happened the other day. Our dog had escaped whilst was putting out the bin. Realstically, it was my fault for not being careful enough with locking his cage. He ran round the neighbourhood with me chasing him like it was a game. He then started barking his arse of at our next door neighbour (he's scared of strangers, but not violent, just bloody noisy). She got in a strop about it, yelling at me that he tried to attack her. I asked her where he'd gone, and finally caught him. About ten mins later, I saw her leaving her house, and said sorry that he got out and barked. She blanked me. I was quite stressed and upset about it, and told him about it. He then said I had to go over and apologise. I _really_ didn't want to. I mean panicky/chest pounding/ uncomfortable/unhappy, rather than just 'meh, I don't fancy it'. I tried to talk him into not making me, but he put his foot down. I went, spoke to the husband, and apologised, and he said he'd pass it on. Aterwards, I felt better that the situation had been resolved, and I could see that he made me do it because I needed that closure to the situation to bring down my stress levels. His command was for my own good. I didn't like it at all, but I know that he did something for me that I needed.

Not sure if that makes any sense, but wanted to add it.

Re: Hurt.
I, as his sub, have the duty of maintaining our relationship, financial, and emotional well-being. That duty includes calling a veto to anything that would be damaging to our relationship, financial situation or my physical/emotional health.

 

[ownedsubgal]

FloggingMolly, a question for you if you don't mind: it seems that you experience or envision only two possible emotional response to a command given you by your Dominant..."like," or grudging acceptance...just curious as to why? as someone who has been in a D/s-M/s relationship for 10 years, i can tell you that the majority of the commands/tasks/duties/etc. given me fall squarely in the middle of those two extremes.

 

[northwoods_sub]

Oh, definitely.



I wasn't saying that while PYL's like us to do things that we don't like to do, that it's okay to have a bad attitude about doing it.

This is actually something I'm working on with my kids. If I ask one of them to do something, and they do it with a bad attitude, I keep asking them to do more stuff for me until I get the proper attitude. That doesn't mean that I expect them to be all 'oh boy! i get to . . .', it means I want a 'yes, mommy' instead of a 'but mom! i don't wanna! why do I always have to help you? why can't sister or brother? i want to watch tv! it's in the middle of my show, and i never get to watch tv!' If it's not okay for my kids to act that way, it sure as hell isn't okay for me to act that way.
For instance; when K had his hernia surgery I set my alarm every night to go off every four hours so I could give him his pain meds. Do I like getting up every four hours? Hell, no. I did not complain, though, because that's bad manners. I guess what it boils down to is attitude. I'm gonna have to do whatever it is, I might as well do it with grace and maturity.

I couldn't agree more graceanne especially with the part in bold. I cannot behave this way especially because I do not let my children behave this way.
I do things that Sir wants because it is what Sir wants. I have been known to grovel on occasion, but it has never made the object of his desire go away it just made it more unpleasant for me to perform it because I had worked myself up so before doing it. I feel my submission so much more when I have completed these tasks and then I get a to enjoy a sense of self pride when I have accomplished something that he wanted that I maybe didn't want to do in the first place. His pride in me makes me feel good about anything he may ask of me.
Actually the title of this thread made me giggle a little because we have a saying that is used frequently around the house it is, "and I didn't cry this time". It was originally used by me with pride when I had accomplished a task that I didn't enjoy without tears. It has now become a statement between Him and I when ever I have to do something I don't enjoy be that cleaning the toilet or taking discipline.
As for pain vs. hurt. Pain is good, hurt would be breaking his toy. I am responsible for letting him know if/when that line is crossed. Most the time he can tell by my body language where we are on that line but being 6 months pregnant makes that line waiver occasionally where he cannot always be sure if it is good pain or bad hurt. Taking hurt would not be good submission in our relationship.

 

[Harmony_1985]

Sir often points out that I'm supposed to do as he says and not question it, but ultimately, I also know he'll never do anything or make me do anything I'm not happy with.

Everything we do I enjoy, so it's all good.

 

[FloggingMolly]

FloggingMolly, a question for you if you don't mind: it seems that you experience or envision only two possible emotional response to a command given you by your Dominant..."like," or grudging acceptance...just curious as to why? as someone who has been in a D/s-M/s relationship for 10 years, i can tell you that the majority of the commands/tasks/duties/etc. given me fall squarely in the middle of those two extremes.

Of course I don't mind

Most of the things he asks are things I'll also enjoy. The remainder I'm mostly not fussed either way. A few are things I strongly dislike. I don't feel it is black or white, but it wasn't that middle ground I was talking about is all

 

[ownedsubgal]

Of course I don't mind

Most of the things he asks are things I'll also enjoy. The remainder I'm mostly not fussed either way. A few are things I strongly dislike. I don't feel it is black or white, but it wasn't that middle ground I was talking about is all

ahhh okay, forgive my literal-thinking brain which renders me somewhat slow at times.

for those things he demands of you that you strongly dislike, do you receive any fulfillment in the simple act of pleasing him, if nothing else?

 

[graceanne]

As for pain vs. hurt.

This, right here, is one of the reasons I identify as a sub. If I felt we were going into 'hurt' I'd say no, or safeword, or whatever I felt was necessary. *shrugs* I do not trust anyone enough to give them complete control over me. Not at this point in my life, at least.

 

[Homburg]

This, right here, is one of the reasons I identify as a sub. If I felt we were going into 'hurt' I'd say no, or safeword, or whatever I felt was necessary. *shrugs* I do not trust anyone enough to give them complete control over me. Not at this point in my life, at least.

Yeah, those crazy slaves. Mine do such wacky things as saying, "Hey, my arm is going to sleep. Can you check it?" or "OWWAITSHIT!" or even mrrrphling really loudly and incessantly when gagged. Of course I utterly ignore that shit and just remind them that we ditched safewords while gassing up the chainsaw...

 

[fuckmeat]

Yeah, those crazy slaves. Mine do such wacky things as saying, "Hey, my arm is going to sleep. Can you check it?" or "OWWAITSHIT!" or even mrrrphling really loudly and incessantly when gagged. Of course I utterly ignore that shit and just remind them that we ditched safewords while gassing up the chainsaw...

I officially you.

 

[fuckmeat]

Pain vs hurt is a tricky and fluid one for me. With enough trust, fear and respect I will not try to prevent a PYL from making me do things that are unpleasantly painful or emotionally hurtful. Sometimes I even crave that, knowing how taxing/revolting/agonising/humiliating a task might be. It's when I feel my slavery most acutely, when I am forcibly reminded that I have waived my human rights and safeword, that any worth I might have is measured moment to moment in my capacity to serve and suffer for another's amusement.

I have a total aversion to feet. It borders on being a phobia. G has fairly attractive feet, as feet go but that makes no difference to me. If I didn't have this aversion I know without doubt that G would have been deprived of a great deal of fun. Over the years she has had me be her footstool, massage her feet, wash them and dry them with my hair, even wash them with my lips and tongue and dry them with my hair. I have hated every moment. I have bathed her feet with tears and a cold sweat as well as my mouth. I have been shaking, hyperventilating and trying not to retch the whole time.

When I was done, it was business as usual. There was no acknowledgement of any kind that I had performed an exceptionally challenging bit of service. I was proud enough of myself not to be too disappointed by that. I naively imagined that G had done about all she could to disgust and humiliate me like that.

Until the day she squatted in the bathroom and pissed on her feet, before ordering me to clean them for her once more. She masturbated while I worked and verbally humiliated me until her feet were cleansed with more tears than saliva. But it was a deeply intense, bonding experience and she did choose to reward me that time.

I still have a total aversion to feet, bordering on a phobia. That has not and will not change. I will not refuse her though and we both get a kick out of how powerfully such service affects me.

 

[kaycee217]

I'm pretty new at all this D/s play, but I generally have the attitude that submission should be as enjoyable as possible. Of course, one can't expect every single command to be arousing or enjoyable, but I think most should be.

I think the motivation for the command is also important. If the submissive is given a task because the Domme/Dome thinks the submissive will enjoy it and the submissive isn't enjoying it...that's a problem. But if the submissive is given a task because the Domme/Dom enjoys exercising their power or otherwise likes watching the submissive in a state of discomfort...that's kinda hot.

 

[FloggingMolly]

@OSG, yup, I enjoy that I've made him happy, and love hearing 'well done', or 'good girl' for those things in partcular. Anything I do that I really don't want to gets rewarded by praise

 

[ownedsubgal]

I'm pretty new at all this D/s play, but I generally have the attitude that submission should be as enjoyable as possible. Of course, one can't expect every single command to be arousing or enjoyable, but I think most should be.

that is one of the many differences between d/s as play, and D/s as a way of life.

 

[ownedsubgal]

@OSG, yup, I enjoy that I've made him happy, and love hearing 'well done', or 'good girl' for those things in partcular. Anything I do that I really don't want to gets rewarded by praise

that always feels great.

 

[graceanne]

Yeah, those crazy slaves. Mine do such wacky things as saying, "Hey, my arm is going to sleep. Can you check it?" or "OWWAITSHIT!" or even mrrrphling really loudly and incessantly when gagged. Of course I utterly ignore that shit and just remind them that we ditched safewords while gassing up the chainsaw...

Yeah, well I get to decide what's hurtful.

You should check out the 'things a dominant shouldn't say to their sub' thread. I couldn't find it but it's hilarious.

that always feels great.

Yup. House looks great always thrills me.

 

[DVS]

Anything that I've ever "required" of a submissive was first on a safe list from her. There were times when a submissive would say no, but those times would usually result in damaging the atmosphere and even the seudo-guy in charge thing for me.

I had one woman who would sometimes say, "please, nothing anal today" and I would always agree, but never ask why. I figured she had a reason and it was none of my business to know why. There were times when she didn't say that, and so I decided she had a good reason, when she did say it.

After getting to know someone, you tend to understand their limits well enough. Sure, we have soft and hard limits, but I think they are mostly for people to use as guidelines until they get to know each other and trust each other.

Maybe I'm just too easy going, I don't know. Maybe I should have questioned why she didn't want anal on those days. Maybe she thought less of me because I didn't question it. Maybe that was the beginning of why we are no longer together.

Maybe I'm just thinking out loud. I should get some more coffee. Then, I'll come back and see if I need to delete this post. LOL.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Yeah, well I get to decide what's hurtful.

You should check out the 'things a dominant shouldn't say to their sub' thread. I couldn't find it but it's hilarious.



Yup. House looks great always thrills me.

omg i am totally on cloud nine whenever he compliments my housework!!


(feeling like the biggest hausfraus dork ever)