Choosing a correct category

[lazyhobo]

False premise. Point out a "Vanilla" category and let's see if it's separated. Nope, there is no such category. To the extent there is here, it would be the Non-Erotic category. You can write a non-erotic M/M or F/F story here and put it in the Non-Erotic category. There just would be no graphic sex in it. I'm sure I can find such stories in this category (in fact I'm pretty sure I've done that in more than one account, covering both M/M and F/F). Or I could do it again now and show you it can be done.

Vanilla sex just means with no kink involved, and that's not sexual preference specific. To believe it is is just being naturally prejudice.

Just your prejudice playing with you.

The thread point is that readers here really shouldn't expect to have further refinements in the straight genres here if any are going to be made before even the refinements the straight readers already have are provided for the gay and bi readers.

Here is a website to read "Erotic" Graphic Novels, instead of the usual Categories, they have opted for Tags to seperate their categories, some of which include: NonCon (Forced), Incest, Yaoi (Gay), Yuri (Lesbian), Vanilla - http://www.fakku.net/manga/tags

You will see to them, Their is no romance, although stories will be tagged (Mini tags, nothing big like these ones) romance, Their is no popular category for it, because romance is found in all the other tags. Vanilla IS there. Now its not on this website, But its what some people expect when they go to romance.

Not sexual preference specific? It says "Ordinary" , and until recent times, It was ordinary for it to be Straight, MxF, just because MxM and FxF are allowed today, doesnt mean the world has classed it as "ordinary" and lets be honest, Alot of people who are straight, dont really class it as ordinary, thus why you do not find Gay / Lesbian related media as Vanilla stories. When one goes to Vanilla, they go for the "norm" as it were, where as somebody searching for "gay / lesbian" which is a kink as much as it is a preference, would go to the respected sections.

The point of this topic was that he found a Gay story outside of the Gay category, where he found it was irrelevant, he found a story he didnt like, when it should have been in a different category where he wouldnt go, same as finding an incest hater stumble upon incest in romance.

Now while Vanilla isnt an official category on this website, It is generally a category, and most people ascociate Romance and Vanilla as one, because it generally is all about Romance. Im not being prejudice, im not saying anything reflecting my feelings, Im saying it as how alot of people see it (Generally those that are straight but still...) So dont turn this down to me or anyone being prejudice. We're entitled to our opinions on matters, as long as we dont have the intent of being prejudice.

Edit : On a side not, I'm tired, its late, I'm going for a nap. As much fun as it is, discussing... well.. pointless topics with you, I know that You wont agree with me, I wont agree with you, so I'm gonna go for a nap. Have fun with whoever takes you up on this discussion next. Peace!

 

[sr71plt]

This is obviously going no where--and the Lit. owners obviously aren't going to be changing their categories anytime soon--so I'll just leave you with your prejudice.

 

[podga]

It's a given that human behavior, and by extension the stories on Literotica, cannot aalways be neatly categorized. As you say, Lazyhobo, one story might fall under multiple categories.

The point, however, is not whether an incestuous BDSM relationship should fall under Incest or BDSM, but why people feel it is inappropriate or somehow wrong for a gay or lesbian or bisexual or polyamorous relationship, whatever form or kink it might take, to be classified in the same way as the straight relationship would be. And, even more jarringly, the notion that these stories shoud be reported and guided back to their little ghetto categories, where the only criterion is the sex of the participants and nothing else.

Now I fully understand that since the stories here are meant to be not only emotionally, but also physically stimulating, the sex of the characters is important to some, so requesting some tag or designation isn't unreasonable. But if we don't want zillions of categories, the only practical suggestion I can up with is that we keep the categories, but add a tag that would be required and immediately visible (e.g. Romance is the category, and further tags designate the relationship - I've always found M/F, M/M, M/F/F etc to be fairly descriptive and neutral, but YMMV). Some authors are already using that, but perhaps if it's right up there with the title and description, everybody would be happy, plus I could finally post my stories under Romance, which is where I feel they really belong, rather than in the pot pourri that is Gay Male.

 

[sethp]

Yeah...that's not a big deal. If I read something that I don't want to read, I just quit reading and move on. For the most part here, I think that the categories and how stories are placed in them are spot on. Sure there is room for some sub categories in some instances but....I know if I read non-consent, incest or mature, what to expect. The story title and the little blurb under give you that extra incentive to either read or go to another story. Do we really need sub-categories of non-consent or incest or mature? Where would you draw those lines?

 

[lazyhobo]

To be honest, if you dont give alot of cats and sub cats, people will complain, and even if we give them these, they'll complain more.

I've seen descriptions, when looking at an authors stories / poems list, and next to the name is a description, that sometimes mentions whats about to happen, sorta like "Mike finally listens to him", that sort of thing. If authors used that to describe something, say they put, MxF, MxM, or FxF, or gave a warning at the start of the story about the type of thing you're about to read. Then that would be fine.

Not all authors would be keen on this, They are writing these stories for us to read, and for free, so why should they have to do extra work?

Well, either the authors, or the website owners need to put in extra work for any of these Category related complaints to be resolved, but, Will they? Why should they? I doubt it will happen.

(Of course we could do what Wikipedia does, an let users edit / add descriptions, but, lets be honest, Would you trust something someone else wrote about the story?)

 

[lazyhobo]

Yeah...that's not a big deal. If I read something that I don't want to read, I just quit reading and move on. For the most part here, I think that the categories and how stories are placed in them are spot on. Sure there is room for some sub categories in some instances but....I know if I read non-consent, incest or mature, what to expect. The story title and the little blurb under give you that extra incentive to either read or go to another story. Do we really need sub-categories of non-consent or incest or mature? Where would you draw those lines?

On an added note, I must say I agree completely with you. I read whatever, Anything can be a good read depending on how its wrote, regardless of kink (Though on the physical side of things, I generally dont enjoy certain categories) But, if I read it and dont like it, i move on, as do all of us.

All of the talk about fixing things, adding more cats, are just to allow us not to go through the hassle, or be "lazy" in a sense.

 

[sethp]

I guess the easiest thing would be to have a vote or poll and try a sub category to see if it would work. Is there a big enough thing for gay male incest or gay female romance or non-consent mature. Or maybe there should a new Tag when you submit stories that gives you a choice to pick...MM, MMF, FF, MFM etc. Just an idea. I think it's fine the way it is, but that's just my opinion.

 

[sr71plt]

I think the tagging is enough for reading. It would be nice if it were up front, though, so that when someone complained they could simply be asked, "Didn't you bother to read the tags at the front of the story?" Because, I think that readers should be adults and take care of themselves (and that if they get the vapers at even starting to read something that doesn't turn them on and can't just back out, they are reading in the wrong website.)

Where the category structure is unfair here is that there are more than twenty ways you can win a monthly contest--and therefore money--with a straight story and only one way with gay and lesbian stories and no way with bi stories. I think they should just stop flowing money massively in one direction only (just stop rewarding money--put it into more help with improving and maintaining the website and increasing the editorial attention).

But I only mention that because we are into a related discussion of it. I have no anticipation that anything is going to change.

 

[lovecraft68]

There is a GM Romance category/genre (no matter how you want to cut it) in the greater literary world. You are just operating from a limited, prejudiced perspective.

But there isn't a GM romance category here which is what's being discussed meaning what is being operated with is a limited selection and audience.

Because I'm sure in the outer world GM Romance is advertised as such. It is still its own category calling out specifically that it contains romance between men.

Therefore still creating a "warning" or more specific category. Which means that even in the "bigger literary world" people want to know what they are getting into.

 

[podga]

I'd be completely satisfied with the tagging if it appeared at the top (or, at the very least on the first page of the story, rather than solely on the last one) and there were some commonly accepted rules as to the tag itself (e.g. via a pick list), so that writers wouldn't be left to their own devices as to what type of "warnings" to issue.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I guess the best answer is to ask the question of whether or not you realized a gay relationship can be just as much a romance as a straight one and why you think straights own romance.

But looking beyond your blatent blind spot, the website actually agrees with your reasoning, and it normally would have posted the story to the Gay Male category. It was probably just an oversight.

Idiot! Romance is romance and sex is sex. Read the description for the cat and then the story. Whether gay, straight, TS or lesbian, a romance story should be lower on hard sex than the assigned cats - are you forgetting 'erotic couplings'?

Again, with all the talk about tags, shouldn't romance readers be advized as to what awaits within a story?

 

[sr71plt]

Idiot! Romance is romance and sex is sex. Read the description for the cat and then the story. Whether gay, straight, TS or lesbian, a romance story should be lower on hard sex than the assigned cats - are you forgetting 'erotic couplings'?

Again, with all the talk about tags, shouldn't romance readers be advized as to what awaits within a story?

Speaking of idiots, Elfin (who has not posted a story to Lit. for over six years, so who obviously knows nothing about current categorization here), romance is romance and sex is sex, whether gay, straight, or lesbian, is EXACTLY what the quoted passage was saying.

That said, perhaps, since you haven't posted a story to Lit. for over six years, you don't realize that some categories trump all other possibilities here and that Gay Male is one of those, no matter what the level of romance/sex there is in the story.

Also, tags are exactly what are supposed to advise what awaits within a story. The mootable question is whether or not they do the job well enough.

Once again Elfin shows why she is probably the spaciest, out of touch with reality poster to the Lit. forum.