Cleveland incident

[LittleSparks]

Well I agree with everyone that it shouldn't effect fantasies or self perception. But that's just a nice little thought when you put it up against irrational human emotions and people going about their daily lives. Shit happens, and everyone deals with things in their own personal ways..

 

[IrisAlthea]

The OP asked if it put a damper on FANTASIES. Do I need to refresh you all on what a fantasy is? No one asked if it's put a damper on your BDSM life or what you do in real life, but on FANTASIES, which are often darker than anything we'd do in real life. Don't BS me and tell me that no one here has dark fantasies - I've been here quite awhile and I know it's BS. One of the most common fantasies women have involves rape - it doesn't mean they want to be raped. Just the same, for a lot of subs, there is fantasies of being kidnapped and held against his or her own will. And yes, this sort of things puts a damper on that FANTASY of mine. I know it's temporary, as the story of Jaycee Dugard had the same effect on my fantasies, but it does put a damper on it.

This!

 

[Netzach]

Does anyone else feel like the Cleveland Ohio incident this week has put a damper on their BDSM fantasies?

It may be amazing to believe, but not everyone's darker fantasies involve men doing mean things to women, so in my case, I'm rockin' on.

 

[JMohegan]

Comment threads with this topic appeared everywhere BDSM is discussed online, possibly because this idiot posted them everywhere he could access, and probably because *other* idiots who have no knowledge of real-life BDSMers and their practices read "50 Shades" and other stupid shit and thought they had something to do with what civilized and intelligent BDSMers actually *do* in life, and posted similar threads.

If one-tenth of these morons would bother to actually LEARN something about our culture, they'd be much better educated, and *we* wouldn't have to be concerned about over-reaction from the public, the cops, prosecutors and courts.

For god's sake, man, chill.

I'd bet my house on the notion that the majority of individuals comprising "the public, the cops, prosecutors and courts" have had kidnapping and/or rape fantasies of one kind or another.

Fantasies. Come on now, you're a proud member of the self-proclaimed word police. F-A-N-T-A-S-Y. Look it up.

 

[JMohegan]

So *your* fantasies are focused in non-consensual, i.e. criminal activities?

Mine are. In large part, yes.

Feel free to add me to your idiot list.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm reminded of the victims if I think of a woman in ropes or chains, something that arouses me.

I can understand that.

My fantasy narratives run more toward rape as a singular event, not sustained captivity, type of thing. So I'm not sharing your reaction to Cleveland, but can see how it might happen.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

For god's sake, man, chill.

I'd bet my house on the notion that the majority of individuals comprising "the public, the cops, prosecutors and courts" have had kidnapping and/or rape fantasies of one kind or another.

Fantasies. Come on now, you're a proud member of the self-proclaimed word police. F-A-N-T-A-S-Y. Look it up.

Mine are. In large part, yes.

Feel free to add me to your idiot list.

I can understand that.

My fantasy narratives run more toward rape as a singular event, not sustained captivity, type of thing. So I'm not sharing your reaction to Cleveland, but can see how it might happen.

To be honest, JM, I *do* have rape fantasies (and have carried out a few) - but they are (were) *consensual* rape fantasies, i.e., shared fantasies with my partner, and carefully negotiated and discussed prior to any action. While I *am* a sadist, even my most sadistic fantasies have limits, and those limits begin at the point where my partner's fantasies reach her limits.

I simply don't emotionally understand the concept of forcing someone to do something they don't wish to do, when there are *so many* people out there who would WILLINGLY engage me in the pursuits I wish to follow. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part.

 

[JMohegan]

To be honest, JM, I *do* have rape fantasies (and have carried out a few) - but they are (were) *consensual* rape fantasies, i.e., shared fantasies with my partner, and carefully negotiated and discussed prior to any action. While I *am* a sadist, even my most sadistic fantasies have limits, and those limits begin at the point where my partner's fantasies reach her limits.

I simply don't emotionally understand the concept of forcing someone to do something they don't wish to do, when there are *so many* people out there who would WILLINGLY engage me in the pursuits I wish to follow. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part.

Rape is defined by the absence of consent, so your first sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

That aside, I'm not gonna insult you by declaring your fantasies to be indicative of a "lack of imagination" or anything else. What goes on in your head is your business.

It's your blasting of folks whose fantasies don't match yours that I've got a problem with. New guy comes here with a legitimate question, and you go off about how he's some sort of disgrace to "civilized and intelligent" BDSM culture. What the hell prompted that bullshit?

 

[Sir_Winston54]

To be honest, JM, I *do* have rape fantasies (and have carried out a few) - but they are (were) *consensual* rape fantasies, i.e., shared fantasies with my partner, and carefully negotiated and discussed prior to any action. While I *am* a sadist, even my most sadistic fantasies have limits, and those limits begin at the point where my partner's fantasies reach her limits.

I simply don't emotionally understand the concept of forcing someone to do something they don't wish to do, when there are *so many* people out there who would WILLINGLY engage me in the pursuits I wish to follow. Maybe it's a lack of imagination on my part.

Rape is defined by the absence of consent, so your first sentence makes no sense whatsoever.

That aside, I'm not gonna insult you by declaring your fantasies to be indicative of a "lack of imagination" or anything else. What goes on in your head is your business.

Rape in and of itself *is* defined by absence of consent, but like movies depicting extreme violence, murder, etc., etc., rape fantasies shared by willing partners (in thought and "deed") have an entirely different focus: that of fulfilling a need within the desires of the participants.

It's your blasting of folks whose fantasies don't match yours that I've got a problem with. New guy comes here with a legitimate question, and you go off about how he's some sort of disgrace to "civilized and intelligent" BDSM culture. What the hell prompted that bullshit?

Yeah, I have to agree I was pretty harsh. I just get SO tired sometimes of people not in or even knowledgeable about the BDSM culture ("writers," reporters, etc., etc., ad nauseum) ascribing such evil to what we do, because they simply don't understand that the majority of us have our B&D, D/s, S/m, or M/s, wired into our brains in such a way that not being able to participate in those activities leaves a significant portion of our desires and needs unfulfilled when people who *share* those needs and desires wish to fill them but are afraid because of the uneducated - and largely uncaring, unless it gets them a headline - blather of idiots.

To the OP: I apologize. I hit your thread in a moment of frustration and anger, and took that out on you rather than its true target, which unfortunately I'll probably never be able to strike, because it moves around and is so ubiquitous. At this point, editing/deleting those posts would be less than effective, because they've been quoted, but I hope that I didn't drive you away from this forum. Again: I'm sorry. I fucked up.

 

[JMohegan]

Very gracious, Winston. Very gracious indeed.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Very gracious, Winston. Very gracious indeed.

Thank you. I do try to own up to my actions.

 

[Que]

C'mon guys. It's really very easy to make the jump here psychologically, we're only human. This news effected master tremendously a few days after it came out. To begin with, he has all women in his family, and specifically a sister who was in an abusive relationship for years. To think that in our lifestyle and play we do (albeit consensually) some of the things this sick man was doing to these poor girls for years...well it didn't make him feel so great about how he "treats me sometimes." Obviously the news has nothing to do with BDSM or with our relationship, but he dropped pretty hard. It may not be rational but it happens, and I did my best to reassure and console him. It's hard not to think of all the people who suffer through such abuse after hearing news like that.

Emotionally, I get this.

No not at all, but maybe I am strange.

Most of us use knives in our everyday life, but I don't feel strange for using one because of what Jack the Ripper did. I believe that most people are capable of doing bad things, but does that mean me being human is an issue.

Speak of your psychological or as I like to call it these days popular social beliefs. I tend to try and avoid the common stupidity out there.

Intellectually I get this.

The word integrity of an connotes someone of high moral fiber and outstanding forthrightness and like that....

Many years ago when I realize that having integrity and being consistantly integrated we're a couple of different ways to look at the same thing.

I think of it in terms of mind body and soul.

What am I thinking about, what am I doing in the physical sense and how does it make my spirit feel?

When there's a disconnect between any of those links you find yourself on the horns of some sort of moral quandary.

Well I agree that someone living a BDSM lifestyle are desiring to do so and having a fully-integrated approach would likely not feel any intersections to that about story.

Those of us though it is perhaps in her formative days having such thoughts actions or feelings occur in what seems an unbidden fashion might feel that they have cause for a moment's pause.



I don't think it'll actually that one should conflate into guilt one's darker passing fantasies or even those one might do well on a bit longer than one would care to admit.

But I think I get the OP's question.

 

[desertslave]

I sort of get the question, IF those are the kinds of fantasies one usually gets off on. However, I don't think non-con and rape exemplifies the majority of what BDSM is really about, so A does not equal B. When this story broke, all I could feel was sorrow and compassion for those poor women, robbed of so many years of their own lives. It never occurred to me to feel a direct connection with my own relationship.

Maybe it's just me. I was introduced to BDSM through seduction, not force. I was taught from the start that it had to be consensual or it wouldn't work (or at least work well). Quite honestly, even the notion of fantasizing about rape and non-con unsettles me. I know people do it, I understand that it pushes good buttons for many women, but I'm not on that list.

 

[Ahlam]

I sort of get the question, IF those are the kinds of fantasies one usually gets off on. However, I don't think non-con and rape exemplifies the majority of what BDSM is really about, so A does not equal B. When this story broke, all I could feel was sorrow and compassion for those poor women, robbed of so many years of their own lives. It never occurred to me to feel a direct connection with my own relationship.

Maybe it's just me. I was introduced to BDSM through seduction, not force. I was taught from the start that it had to be consensual or it wouldn't work (or at least work well). Quite honestly, even the notion of fantasizing about rape and non-con unsettles me. I know people do it, I understand that it pushes good buttons for many women, but I'm not on that list.

Well said, Desertslave. I concur.

Even if I could be remorseful for my dark desires and imaginings in light of this "incident," I feel like I would then have to consider the sorry plight of countless other victims of nonconsensual sexual exploitation. Human trafficking is rampant. There are many people--right now-- in horrifying situations. What does this "incident" have that so many other incidents don't? Attention.

 

[UCanBLeafinMe]

The OP asked if it put a damper on FANTASIES. Do I need to refresh you all on what a fantasy is? No one asked if it's put a damper on your BDSM life or what you do in real life, but on FANTASIES, which are often darker than anything we'd do in real life. Don't BS me and tell me that no one here has dark fantasies - I've been here quite awhile and I know it's BS. One of the most common fantasies women have involves rape - it doesn't mean they want to be raped. Just the same, for a lot of subs, there is fantasies of being kidnapped and held against his or her own will. And yes, this sort of things puts a damper on that FANTASY of mine. I know it's temporary, as the story of Jaycee Dugard had the same effect on my fantasies, but it does put a damper on it.

No, it has not dampened my fantasies. It has made me sick, because now people will equate real BDSM with this shit!!

I'll admit that I have played the rape fantasy on more than one occasion, but I was young and foolish. Now, as I grow older, I find myself not having them. Why? I know that true rape, kidnapping, and torture effects women psychologically, those young women will never be the same.

Will they have loving relationships with men outside of the family unit? Who knows. Time might tell, but I doubt it.