Comments and Questions?

[tarablackwood22]

omg I am thinking of rescinding my "yes" to do a poem of mine. I do not have any good answers like Tara or Tath.

eek


maybe I can change my name and that will help

Tanna

No you don't either, Tanna.

I have about a million questions for you.

 

[Tathagata]

I have about a million questions for you.

it has to be about a poem...not wardrobe

 

[tarablackwood22]

it has to be about a poem...not wardrobe

You need a haircut.

 

[Tathagata]

You need a haircut.

I need an amplifier


you need a shirt that fits.....

 

[tarablackwood22]

I need an amplifier


you need a shirt that fits.....

That's the first time you've ever suggested I put clothes ON.

And this is a NO-CHAT THREAD.

 

[Tathagata]

That's the first time you've ever suggested I put clothes ON.

And this is a NO-CHAT THREAD.

....

 

[tarablackwood22]

You know me, I'm always happy to see rhymes. But I don't understand the "dust, wet corn".

Mutt-

The line in question:

"men made from dust, wet corn."

Read as prose, the line is "Men made wet corn from dust."

You are reading the word "made" as meaning "are made out of."

The comma after 'dust' must be respected religiously. A pause IS required for meaning.

Does that help?


Minsue, lostandfounder, and 1201 -- If your questions were not answered sufficiently, post and tell me what still troubles you, and I'll try to answer.

Tath and Seattle -- the responses to your questions are coming.

Did I miss anyone?

Tara

 

[tarablackwood22]

you know I love the sounds and images and beautiful phrasing lack of cliche and I do not necessarily want to know what each one means.

Here is my situation. While each of these unusual or cryptic phrasing gives me an individual feel, vision, interpretation, when there are so many in a row, my impressions get twisted and at the end I am left with a basket full of impressions and ideas and I miss the main message.

I have a short attention span
I am a visual thinker
I get this mosaic of snapshots

you know the kind I mean
snapshots cut and pasted into a collage and when you stand back far enough you see Elvis.

or the Earth.


So
with all of your snapshots so vivid and beautiful, I am having a hard time standing far back enough to see Elvis.

Can you summarize this poem for me, not the meaning of it, but if you stand back

what do you see? one shot?

please

I sometimes feel like I have flipped through a photo album instead of one big picture. Each photo is cool and all, but overall....what was the theme?

yes
short
attention span

poor short term memory

which explains my three line poems

lol

thanks for humoring me with this

I am going to go post the same question to Tath

(funny I write short poems but never shut up with my prosey notes)

SEATTLE!

How’s the dark, oily basement? I see anna is nice to you and lets you up for air. I’ve got lipsticksunset in chains downstairs. I pass bread and water under the door. She’s whimpering now. Her eyes are rolling, and she’s calling your name.

Your concerns are rooted in the wonderful, on-going debate you and I have had since the day we met regarding the merits of classical vs. minimalist poetry.

When I read a poem, I never feel a need to step back and look at it in one piece with one glance, like I do a painting. My understanding comes as I read. That is most likely because I fell in love with the beauty of prose before I did poetry, with Steinbeck and Hemingway, and my background is planted and watered there.

So when I write, I do not take that need of ‘full glance in one swallow’ into account. My favorite poetry is, for the most part, longer poetry. This, in the end, becomes a matter of taste and slant.

I cringe when I see a haiku. I find them completely unfulfilling intellectually (though most are better than ‘Moby Dick’). Again, that is just my personal preference. I know there are “great” haikus. They just don’t seem “great” to me.

Chances are that fans of haiku, and other short poetry, will not like this poem or poetry of this length or type at all, will not even want to get through it. That is what makes the world go ‘round.

The summary--one shot--that you ask for has already been given in previous answers. If you haven't seen it, scroll up to earlier responses I gave.

If I haven't answered satisfactorily, just post and I will try to, but I think our debate is one that will last as long as we know each other.



Tath -- your questions are next.

 

[The Mutt]

Mutt-

The line in question:

"men made from dust, wet corn."

Read as prose, the line is "Men made wet corn from dust."

You are reading the word "made" as meaning "are made out of."

The comma after 'dust' must be respected religiously. A pause IS required for meaning.

Does that help?


Tara

Perfectly. I have a hard time respecting anything religiously.

 

[tarablackwood22]

Re: Ok

night found its twin with candle birth,
that light of kin glowed
for the morning, no warning
showed among its stars, sweet joining
of the polar torn.

I understand the candle birth, but" sweet joining of the polar torn" I'm a tad unclear on...is that the northern lights?? and how/ why were they torn?





in splintered winter wood of barns
I did not fear the cracking, or hear
the tears of colored leaves when leaves
blew off the trees. I could not see the doom
of doors, or know that hearts get worn.



"doom of doors'..because they enclose...or keep out??

Tath,

Night and morning are 'polar torn' by their very nature as exact opposites.

The 'joining' here is accomplished by the 'arificial light' of candles, making night similar to day.

The concept and entire purpose of the term 'polar torn' is explained earlier in the thread in my answer to 1201's question on that term.

Doors are passageways....from one thing to next....rooms.... minutes and hours and days and decades...from birth to death....

The term "doom of doors" was meant to imply that as time moves, the eventual and inevitable end of that passaging, one that I did not see as a child but see now, is one that is not pleasant.

Tara

 

[jd4george]

Tara...

I'm not sure which part of your thoughtful eloquence impresses me more, your poem or your rich explanations. You are among the rare gifts that I have discovered here.

In your presence, I am constantly in awe... not easily done for one as jaded as I.

Myke

 

[tarablackwood22]

Tara...

I'm not sure which part of your thoughtful eloquence impresses me more, your poem or your rich explanations. You are among the rare gifts that I have discovered here.

In your presence, I am constantly in awe... not easily done for one as jaded as I.

Myke

 

[twelveoone]

1201 has contacted me and asked if I would start this educational exercise off by putting a poem up to be torn apart and critiqued by everyone who has a mind to. He had a specific poem in mind, and it's okay with me.

After the shredding is over, and all the questions have been asked, I told him I would answer any and all queries about the poem, and also explain its genesis and development.

Is that okay with y'all? If enough of you are agreeable, I'll put it up on this thread and you can beat it to death.

Tara

By all means I don't want to stop the beating, I did want to cut in and thank you, and I have one more question.
Would you be willing to do it again, in the future?

 

[tarablackwood22]

By all means I don't want to stop the beating, I did want to cut in and thank you, and I have one more question.
Would you be willing to do it again, in the future?

1201

I would gladly do it again in the future.

I think this is just a splendid idea you had, and I think INTERACT should become a regular and continuous activity here.

I am very much looking forward to anna's poem.

There are so many poets, so many poems I would like to see discussed here.

I don't want to list the names because I'll surely make an error of omission.......

But.....hey Jersey girl.....hello South Carolina.....how about strapping yourselves to this whipping pole?

 

[annaswirls]

Mutt-

The line in question:

"men made from dust, wet corn."

Read as prose, the line is "Men made wet corn from dust."

You are reading the word "made" as meaning "are made out of."

The comma after 'dust' must be respected religiously. A pause IS required for meaning.

Does that help?

Tara

You missed me too, Tara, I would not have asked about it, as I try to read the poem to get a big feel or picture or message-- but since you gave Mutt a little spanking, I had to say something

I respect your work and you have every right to defend your choice of phrasing and write whatever you want, but since the point has been raised:

I read the line as Mutt did, as did my husband, without even considering your meaning as a possibility. The pause does not exclude the meaning interpreted as men are made of corn and dust.

You make a big jump in your assumptions here:

"men made from dust, wet corn."

Read as prose, the line is "Men made wet corn from dust."

It is just as easy to read this in prose as "Men made from wet corn and dust" the comma separating the two subjects, corn and dust.

To assume that readers will "religiously" respect the particular rules that you are following for communicating your meaning is not plausible.

(by the way, telling people that they must religiously respect anything, especially a punctuation mark, well, it just makes me want to question the heck out of it )

I know that my phrasing is not always typical and breaks rules all over the place, but I would never assume that everyone will understand what my particular meaning is or tell them that their interpretation is wrong, especially if my writing were abstract. If you are looking to have double meanings in this line, then you have done that. If you are looking for all readers to get your intended meaning, I would consider changing the phrasing, even if it perhaps correct in some traditional form of poetry, it is confusing to the typical reader and readers who read top rate poetry every day. I am not saying you should change the poem at all, just reinforcing that Mutts confusion is completely understandable.


The fact that the statement is abstract-- making wet corn from dust is COOL and I like it, but its abstract nature also adds to the following confusion. If it is that confusion that you are looking for then that is cool too.

If it were a statement with a more predictable conclusion, then it would be different. For example, "men made from molehills, mountains" or "he made from clay, a masterpiece."


Alright I am finished defending Mutt today.


Now someone has to come defend Tara lol.

I know it is hard having your work questioned. It is why people use pen names so they don't get bombarded in the grocery store "What do you mean so much depends on a white rooster....!"

Take care, and thanks for taking my constructive feedback with a grain of salt, and a shot of Tequilla.

~anna

 

[annaswirls]

SEATTLE!

How’s the dark, oily basement? I see anna is nice to you and lets you up for air. I’ve got lipsticksunset in chains downstairs. I pass bread and water under the door. She’s whimpering now. Her eyes are rolling, and she’s calling your name.

Your concerns are rooted in the wonderful, on-going debate you and I have had since the day we met regarding the merits of classical vs. minimalist poetry.

When I read a poem, I never feel a need to step back and look at it in one piece with one glance, like I do a painting. My understanding comes as I read. That is most likely because I fell in love with the beauty of prose before I did poetry, with Steinbeck and Hemingway, and my background is planted and watered there.

So when I write, I do not take that need of ‘full glance in one swallow’ into account. My favorite poetry is, for the most part, longer poetry. This, in the end, becomes a matter of taste and slant.

I cringe when I see a haiku. I find them completely unfulfilling intellectually (though most are better than ‘Moby Dick’). Again, that is just my personal preference. I know there are “great” haikus. They just don’t seem “great” to me.

Chances are that fans of haiku, and other short poetry, will not like this poem or poetry of this length or type at all, will not even want to get through it. That is what makes the world go ‘round.

The summary--one shot--that you ask for has already been given in previous answers. If you haven't seen it, scroll up to earlier responses I gave.

If I haven't answered satisfactorily, just post and I will try to, but I think our debate is one that will last as long as we know each other.



Tath -- your questions are next.

Hey Tara,

This was not a question about length vs minimilism at all actually-- I can get through a good long poem, as I did yours.

I enjoy many long poems, love to curl up with Whitmans Leaves of Grass, T.S. Elliot, etc. I understand their purpose and respect them. I write quite a few long poems, and I would be challenged to sum them up, their meaning intended-- different people will walk away with different interpretations of a poem, but the overarching meaning, well should be there, don't you think?

For example in my Raising the Blade poem, a long one that will be re-posted, I could write "A good farmer keeps careful watch over his land, and as a good man he keeps watch with kindness, even though sometimes harsh measures are taken."

Sure that is not a poem lol it is a quick summary.

If you were to write a review of your own poem, and you had to do it in one line, could you do it? I am sure you can. I was not asking for a long explanation I know I can find those -- just your impression of what you want the reader to walk away with when they read your poem. I asked this question of Tath as well. I think it is a fair question in this forum, but respect your decision if you do not want to answer the question in that format. It is your poem

~anna

 

[tarablackwood22]

Hey Tara,

This was not a question about length vs minimilism at all actually-- I can get through a good long poem, as I did yours.

I enjoy many long poems, love to curl up with Whitmans Leaves of Grass, T.S. Elliot, etc. I understand their purpose and respect them. I write quite a few long poems, and I would be challenged to sum them up, their meaning intended-- different people will walk away with different interpretations of a poem, but the overarching meaning, well should be there, don't you think?

For example in my Raising the Blade poem, a long one that will be re-posted, I could write "A good farmer keeps careful watch over his land, and as a good man he keeps watch with kindness, even though sometimes harsh measures are taken."

Sure that is not a poem lol it is a quick summary.

If you were to write a review of your own poem, and you had to do it in one line, could you do it? I am sure you can. I was not asking for a long explanation I know I can find those -- just your impression of what you want the reader to walk away with when they read your poem. I asked this question of Tath as well. I think it is a fair question in this forum, but respect your decision if you do not want to answer the question in that format. It is your poem

~anna

I'm sorry, anna.

I guess I misunderstood what you wanted to know.

I have no problem answering that question, or any question, in an open forum like this.

The poem is an effort to:

"come to realization that life is finite, and that the wonders and glories of youth, though beautiful and magnetic, are the stuff of children."

I hope that answers.

 

[annaswirls]

I'm sorry, anna.

I guess I misunderstood what you wanted to know.

lol could it be because I took like four paragraphs asking the question of a quick summary?


I have no problem answering that question, or any question, in an open forum like this.
oh no, hmmmm let me think of a really good one lol


The poem is an effort to:

"come to realization that life is finite, and that the wonders and glories of youth, though beautiful and magnetic, are the stuff of children."

I hope that answers.

wow! yeah, that answers.... thanks!

~anna<---back to writing about throwing rocks in the water lol

 

[BooMerengue]

Boy, was I glad to find THIS thread! Tonight I do my 1st reviews, or as I've decided to call them... My Mentions, since I know nothing about poetry except what my gut tells me! But with all these great links I've found here, I'm sure to learn something!

Anna? I have a little surprise comin for you.... lol

 

[tarablackwood22]

You missed me too, Tara, I would not have asked about it, as I try to read the poem to get a big feel or picture or message-- but since you gave Mutt a little spanking, I had to say something

I respect your work and you have every right to defend your choice of phrasing and write whatever you want, but since the point has been raised:

I read the line as Mutt did, as did my husband, without even considering your meaning as a possibility. The pause does not exclude the meaning interpreted as men are made of corn and dust.

You make a big jump in your assumptions here:



It is just as easy to read this in prose as "Men made from wet corn and dust" the comma separating the two subjects, corn and dust.

To assume that readers will "religiously" respect the particular rules that you are following for communicating your meaning is not plausible.

(by the way, telling people that they must religiously respect anything, especially a punctuation mark, well, it just makes me want to question the heck out of it )

I know that my phrasing is not always typical and breaks rules all over the place, but I would never assume that everyone will understand what my particular meaning is or tell them that their interpretation is wrong, especially if my writing were abstract. If you are looking to have double meanings in this line, then you have done that. If you are looking for all readers to get your intended meaning, I would consider changing the phrasing, even if it perhaps correct in some traditional form of poetry, it is confusing to the typical reader and readers who read top rate poetry every day. I am not saying you should change the poem at all, just reinforcing that Mutts confusion is completely understandable.


The fact that the statement is abstract-- making wet corn from dust is COOL and I like it, but its abstract nature also adds to the following confusion. If it is that confusion that you are looking for then that is cool too.

If it were a statement with a more predictable conclusion, then it would be different. For example, "men made from molehills, mountains" or "he made from clay, a masterpiece."


Alright I am finished defending Mutt today.


Now someone has to come defend Tara lol.

I know it is hard having your work questioned. It is why people use pen names so they don't get bombarded in the grocery store "What do you mean so much depends on a white rooster....!"

Take care, and thanks for taking my constructive feedback with a grain of salt, and a shot of Tequilla.

~anna

Sorry, anna -- I answered the post after this one and didn't even see this one until now.

I agree that it could be read either way -- well up above in this thread I said it was the only line in the poem I wasn't totally happy with and will alter.

I wish I had spanked Mutt -- but I didn't. He understood my answer, and accepted it.

I certainly was not looking for the line to be confusing or have double-meaning.

Defense of the line is already above, but there is no doubt that it is worthy of attack.

I will surely fix that line before I submit this poem anywhere. It shouldn't be difficult to repair.

Tara

 

[twelveoone]

1201

I would gladly do it again in the future.

I think this is just a splendid idea you had, and I think INTERACT should become a regular and continuous activity here.

I am very much looking forward to anna's poem.

There are so many poets, so many poems I would like to see discussed here.

I don't want to list the names because I'll surely make an error of omission.......

But.....hey Jersey girl.....hello South Carolina.....how about strapping yourselves to this whipping pole?

A few things, I would like to mention:
The intent here is an education process, part of that education, is also for the author to become aware of problems they may have with communicating with the audience. This was done masterfully here.
I'd like to see this series weekly, anna has agreed to be next.
To start it off, well, I just started. I do not want it to be my show. There are much better people here to do the intros and first line of questions than I. The mechanics of this, so far has been via email, I take suggestions, I contact for permission, I write intro and first set of questions, I then send to author for OK, they may edit into. I would like a little less I.
The old Interact thread I hope will become a kind of coordination board for, suggestions, and as to who, and when, and what has been agreed to.
Tara to you, for agreeing and the mastery of your answers

anna to you, for coming back like a pit bull with your question