Common Sense Crumbles

[s'lara]

<snip>While it is a lovely fantasy to believe it is the submissive's duty to submit in all (which I personally see more in fitting with a 24/7 TPE slave role than a submissive's), and in a r/l 24/7 relationship this may be safe and reliable to live by, it is not realistic in this situation.<snip>

Agreed.

What i think is important to establish for Wicked Eve and other newcomers is the fact that what governs certain relationships does not necessarily apply to hers/theirs and shouldn't.

There is some sound advice here WE. i hope you listen. Bottom line, the choice is still yours and aside from your trouble with saying no (i am sure many sub's can identify with this problem), i think you should consider what's more important, a man who is willing to risk your health for the sake of momentary pleasure or your life/sexual health. Up to you.

lara

 

[ownedsubgal]

The way you phrase this is interesting. By nature and definition, no, a submissive shouldn't "demand" anything of a dom. However, a Sub/dom relationship needs to be built on trust that "hard limits" will not be crossed. For me, unprotected sex is one of those lines. I like the fact that my Dom can push my limits and demand more of me while still respecting the few hard, fast lines that I hold dear. These lines are different for everyone. Some, like you from what I gather based on your post, choose to submit *totally* to their Dom/Master/Etc, in that whatever he/she says, goes, whether it goes against your deepest personal convictions or not. This is all well and good, for you, in your situation, with your Master. However, if the sub does not feel that her Dom has her best interests (whatever those may be) in mind, this same relationship dynamic that works well for you may not be healthy.

For me, personally, health and safety (as much as any BDSM practice is "safe") take priority. If I felt that my health were being threatened, I might just demand something.

Then again, as I stated elsewhere, I can be an unholy terror of a bitch outside of the bedroom, so maybe it leaks into my sub personality a little.

this is why i say that she must either accept him and his ways (the no condom thing) or end the relationship. it is never wise to go into a relationship hoping you can change a person somehow, that they will eventually see things your way, that things will eventually be as you prefer, etc. but particularly in a D/s relationship, it is not about tons of mutual compromise. accept a Dominant for who he is and what he's about, or not at all.

 

[exiledmaster]

I have only skimmed this thread, but here's a question. Why are we assuming that he can sleep with his wife unprotected and be safe?

I'm afraid condoms are a must in this case. Sleeping with all the people he may have slept with is bad enough, and sleeping with all the people who have slept with all the people he has slept with is worse, and sleeping with all the people who may have slept with all the people who may have slept his wife that he doesn't know about?

For some reason I find myself whistling the chorus of Little Does She Know by the Kursaal Flyers

(ahemmm.... clears throat) (assumes reedy voice in register a way above his normal bass baritone...)
"Little does she know that I know that she knows / That I know she's two timing me...."

 

[white_mage_goddess]

Lets see:

This guy is a liar and a cheat....you KNOW this but persist in the relationship? I'm sorry to be rude, but WHERE is your brain dear? You think he lies to *just* his wife? If he's lying to her, that means he believes that lying to a lover is acceptable behavior and he is very likely lying to you too!

Second of all, bdsm is based on the creed of "safe sane consensual." This is NOT safe...he could give you a disease. It's not SANE for him to take that kind of risk, and its CERTAINLY not consensual since you obviously want him to use the condom and he isn't.

This guy sounds like a real looser. There are plenty of doms out there who will let you explore your sexuality while being honest with you and respecting you. It sounds to me like this guy is more worried about his own fun than having a relationship with you. He needs to grow up and act like a man.

And you, Dear, need to grow a set of balls and take control of the situation. A sub is NOT a doormat. A good dom always has his sub's best interests at heart, and OBVIOUSLY, this guy doesn't give a shit what you think about the situation.

This isn't a game, hon...this is your LIFE. You should be a strong enough person not to gamble with your life. I'm not a die hard condom fan myself...I don't use them when I'm with someone in a real life, long term relationship. But considering your situation of this guy being married, far away, and a blatant liar, I certainly wouldn't trust him to be honest with you about his sex life.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

Lets see:

This guy is a liar and a cheat....you KNOW this but persist in the relationship? I'm sorry to be rude, but WHERE is your brain dear? You think he lies to *just* his wife? If he's lying to her, that means he believes that lying to a lover is acceptable behavior and he is very likely lying to you too!

Second of all, bdsm is based on the creed of "safe sane consensual." This is NOT safe...he could give you a disease. It's not SANE for him to take that kind of risk, and its CERTAINLY not consensual since you obviously want him to use the condom and he isn't.

This guy sounds like a real looser. There are plenty of doms out there who will let you explore your sexuality while being honest with you and respecting you. It sounds to me like this guy is more worried about his own fun than having a relationship with you. He needs to grow up and act like a man.

And you, Dear, need to grow a set of balls and take control of the situation. A sub is NOT a doormat. A good dom always has his sub's best interests at heart, and OBVIOUSLY, this guy doesn't give a shit what you think about the situation.

This isn't a game, hon...this is your LIFE. You should be a strong enough person not to gamble with your life. I'm not a die hard condom fan myself...I don't use them when I'm with someone in a real life, long term relationship. But considering your situation of this guy being married, far away, and a blatant liar, I certainly wouldn't trust him to be honest with you about his sex life.

I had to quote it because it was so much more eloquently said than mine, and I agree with every word.


Brava!

 

[FungiUg]

Okay, my 2c.

As a Dom, there's no way I would insist on behaivour from a submissive that is health challenging. Even playing safe there are still risks of transmitting things!

So him refusing to use a condom is showing that as a Dom, he can't take responsibility for some practical means of reducing health risks. This is not a good sign.

Secondly, all submissives have limits/rules. (Submissives as disctinct from slaves, okay?) I would expect a Dominant to respect a submissive's rules. Otherwise where is the basis for trust?

Common sense is a precious thing -- use it.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Is this a new thing? The Stepford Subs? What on earth does D/s have to do with any of this?

All because you thought you were submissive? I mean, most of the comments in this thread barely resembles D/s as I know it. In what way is this man your master? I won't even comment about the quality of a relationship that is supposed to be 4.5 years old and is still having these issues. Doesn't sound like there is sufficient communication to even constitute the simplest of D/s arrangements.

Everyone can live their life as they please, people like ownedsubgal would be the victim in a snuff film if that was her master's request, but these are fringe cases by hardcore people who have made up their mind to live a certain way. She also doesn't have dependents relying on her to raise them!

You are just a newbie. How dare you pretend this crap is SSC or anything resembling what most of us practice! You need to pull your head out of your ass and think of your children. You can live with the consequences of non-deadly STDs, but HIV is a death sentence and if you are the only parent then those children become orphans.

 

[Netzach]

A little experiment.

Put on a latex glove.

Suck on your fingers.

Like the results?



Repeat after me: full of shit.

I'm actually with osg here in one regard. Someone who cares more about his seed spooging in you than your health or his own is not going to change his tune. Someone who's going to whine about a .05 width of latex for health reasons is never going to get over it.

If you say no, say the big no.

I've also watched people deteriorate from AIDS. Do you want to be one of them? Do you want to explain why mommy has to stay in bed, can't go near a kid with a cold, and may not be coming home from the hospital because you dare not refuse Master his spooge?

I've also been involved in an extramarital thing, and the one thing I never assumed there was that I was the only extracurricular. Then again, that person never had a problem with rubbers or pretended I was the only extracurricular either.

There's no excuse for this in 2004. Condoms are a fact of sexual activity now, fuck BARRIERS are a fact of sexual activity. Would I rather eat pussy without one? Duh, yes. It's not an option, I like being alive. I like M better alive. Take this shit seriously, if you take anything seriously.

 

[landcruisergal]

Your partner is demonstrating a huge lack of RESPECT for all his partners. He is happy to dip his wick into you, then take it home to his wife... and vice versa. He needs to wake up to himself.
( and lets face facts here, how can he know for sure you dont have anything, if you haven't had a recent and complete screen.He only has your word.You may be pure as the driven snow,but how does he know that your ex wasn't sleeping around?)
And unless he wants to be tested after every casual sexual encounter, and then again 3 months later after total abstinence for that time to be sure about HIV, a one off screen doesnt count for anything.It's only accurate for that one time the samples were taken.
And some blood banks are privately run, and if they find a nasty, sometimes they dont notify you, they just throw the blood away.
He doesnt respect you,your wishes, your kids, your life or that of his wife. And he's ignorant and naive.
Don't be dumb.Don't be silly. Put a condom on that willy.

 

[Sandia]

Lots of people don't like condoms (me among them). The others here are right - maybe this isn't the right relationship for you. If you don't feel safe, or you don't like what's happening, you should find a situation that's better for you.

Similarly, if he doesn't want to use a condom, he should be with someone who's comfortable with that.

As far as respect, and the rest of it, that's all complete PC bullshit.

Demonizing him for his sexual preferences is just plain stupid.

My Master and I have been together for 4 1/2 years. Unfortunately, much of our relationship is L/D but we do occasionally get together in person. The first time was just a year and half ago after my separation from my now ex husband. I try to be very responsible and cautious about my health. Even though I love and trust him, I still believe condoms are a sensible and reasonable request. Before the first visit, I asked about sexually transmitted diseases and using condoms. He flatly refused and his tone of voice crumbled me. He said he was careful about the sex partners he had chosen in the past and now he was only sexually active with his wife.

He said that he had recently given blood and he knew that he was not HIV positive and that he didn't have hepatitis. I felt a little better, but still wanted a condom. Of course, in person, face to face with him, there was no way I'd suggest such a thing. I did what I was told, then some time afterwards, I worried. I felt bad for letting my common sense crumble. But I cannot bring myself to stand up to him. In it's not part of my makeup, obviously. The last time he visited, I had unprotected sex again. I believe he doesn't have anyone else in his life but his wife and me. He believes she is faithful. Of course, she believes that about him.

He is due to visit again this summer. I will not ask about condoms. Is there anything else I can do? Besides not touching him... Can't a person get checked out by their doctor and get test results? Something I could see? Yeah, a condom would be easier.

 

[Sandia]

Agreed.

What i think is important to establish for Wicked Eve and other newcomers is the fact that what governs certain relationships does not necessarily apply to hers/theirs and shouldn't.

There is some sound advice here WE. i hope you listen. Bottom line, the choice is still yours and aside from your trouble with saying no (i am sure many sub's can identify with this problem), i think you should consider what's more important, a man who is willing to risk your health for the sake of momentary pleasure or your life/sexual health. Up to you.

lara

Everything in life is a matter of risk/reward.

For example, if you drive to the store for a gallon of milk, you're risking your life so you can pour something on your cheerios. It doesn't make you stupid (or evil), it just means you'd rather not have to walk.

In any case, he's not risking her health (to the extent it's being risked) - she is.

 

[s'lara]

Everything in life is a matter of risk/reward.

For example, if you drive to the store for a gallon of milk, you're risking your life so you can pour something on your cheerios. It doesn't make you stupid (or evil), it just means you'd rather not have to walk.

In any case, he's not risking her health (to the extent it's being risked) - she is.

i agree there is risk in most things. i don't believe i villified the man she spoke of, only his insistence not to wear a condom in the times we live in.

Not sure i'd agree she's entirely responsible for the risk, but i did make sure to let her know the choice is hers, not his.

lara

 

[Sandia]

i agree there is risk in most things. i don't believe i villified the man she spoke of, only his insistence not to wear a condom in the times we live in.

Different people assess risks differently. Not only in terms of how *much* risk there is, but also in terms of how much it's worth to them to take it.

Not sure i'd agree she's entirely responsible for the risk, but i did make sure to let her know the choice is hers, not his.

lara

Agreed. Perhaps we could say it's a risk they're taking together.

 

[eg1vtec]

from what Ive read, condoms arent a sure fire way to prevent transmission of HIV and other diseases, so yea, really if you dont wanna take risks then dont , what ever happened to monagamy

 

[bridgeburner]

Wearing a seatbelt isn't a sure fire way of preventing death in an auto accident but it greatly reduces the chances of such.

Don't be a dolt. It's unbecoming.


-B

 

[Netzach]

from what Ive read, condoms arent a sure fire way to prevent transmission of HIV and other diseases, so yea, really if you dont wanna take risks then dont , what ever happened to monagamy

it's out having an affair you don't know about.

I'll take realism any day, thanks.

 

[FungiUg]

it's out having an affair you don't know about.

I'll take realism any day, thanks.

Wot she said.

The human species has never been monogamous. It's not likely to suddenly evolve that way either.

So safety is important.