Could you do me a favor?

[ElectricBlue]

I don’t read him as being exhibited as a humiliation, but as an object to be admired. He’s paying to feed his ego - collusive exhibitionism.

Faranger's key trait, it seems to me, is a cock-sure exhibitionist narcissist, so sure of himself that, when he next sees his subordinates (back at work), he says, "It's okay, you won't get fired." He's not lacking in self confidence, that's for sure. Self-awareness, not so sure.

Nevertheless, it's an intriguing story, with an air of much older erotica (Story of O, obviously).

The repeated use of his surname, Faranger, puts me in mind of a J.G.Ballard character, obsessively mapping out nuclear explosions on the bottom of empty swimming pools, while a crazed pilot circles overhead in a small aeroplane. The club could be some "end of days" dystopian place, where there's nothing left to do but polite torture.

 

[AG31]

Okay I'll attempt to detail what I got out of each passage:



In almost all cases I've ever seen a similar phrasing used, it comes off as intentionally sarcastic. To the point it's almost a trope.



It sounds like something a narcissistic would think. He can entertain petty thoughts about THEM, because obviously they're "lesser" than he is.

But of COURSE they like him. Because who could possibly NOT like him? He's PERFECT, right?

That's how he came across to me.

I've been reading further and the fact that the coworkers he thought so little of actually show up to humiliate him only adds to my interpretation.

He THINKS they like him. THEY think he's an asshole.

OK. Thanks. I appreciate your taking the time.

 

[AG31]

My first thought on the MC was "malignant narcissist". He, and everything around him, is perfect. Everyone else is not perfect. The feeling the muscles in his body comes across, to me, as kind of weird - like he's disassociating to deny some form of muscular condition. An unlikable character, as far is the introduction is concerned.

Any way I can make this sound humorous? He's on a bit of a high, looking toward his adventure. "And then there's his modesty." How can I make that sound self deprecating?

 

[AG31]

"

Okay I'll attempt to detail what I got out of each passage:


"He took some comfort in the knowledge that neither Pederson nor Stephanie would suspect he entertained such petty thoughts about them. He was well liked by his staff."


It sounds like something a narcissistic would think. He can entertain petty thoughts about THEM, because obviously they're "lesser" than he is.

But of COURSE they like him. Because who could possibly NOT like him? He's PERFECT, right?

That's how he came across to me.

I've been reading further and the fact that the coworkers he thought so little of actually show up to humiliate him only adds to my interpretation.

He THINKS they like him. THEY think he's an asshole.

Can you suggest a way that I can make it clear that it's the author (me) saying that his employees like him, not him deluding himself?

 

[Djmac1031]

Can you suggest a way that I can make it clear that it's the author (me) saying that his employees like him, not him deluding himself?

Yes. Write a scene showing him interacting with the two employees and demonstrate that they actually like him.

In other words: show, don't tell.

The closest interaction you wrote was after they participate in humiliating him at the club, and basically only so that he can stress that he won't fire them for it.



You gave us nothing about how they felt about that, or him.

But from the way they interacted with him AT the club, I inferred they were VERY happy to have a chance to humiliate a guy they didn't like in this way.

 

[LoneMilf]

I had hoped the self deprecating, humorous comment, "He chuckled silently to himself. Then there was his modesty." would have erased the idea that he was vain, a perfectionist. I had hoped it would portray him, instead, as an easy-going guy who was having fun getting ready for his adventure. Do you know why it didn't work for you?

I don't read this as self-deprecating at all. It just seems that he is chuckling to himself at the inferiority of the people around him.

I did wonder about the "Then there was his modesty" bit, but there was nothing to link it to at this point - what modesty? I filed it as information that may become relevant/clear later in the story.

As for the sentence about him being liked by his staff... I figured that was just him being delusional. It was literally put in a sentence where we are reminded of how little he thinks of his co-workers.

 

[AG31]

It doesn't seem to really be a desire for humiliation, more to let someone else use him

Spot on! I'm so glad this distinction comes across for you.

 

[AG31]

You describe him as a normal, moderately successful person who has girlfriends, but no significant other, who is liked by his subordinates. He sees the objects in his life to be to his satisfaction. The only persons in his life you mention, Pederson and Stephanie, he sees as flawed. He’s tolerant of their flaws and feels his inattention to them may be a flaw in himself.

I guess this thread is old enough now that I can reveal what my intentions were, and you hit this spot on! Thanks. It's reassuring.

As for the homoerotic slant, I understood what was going on as an occasion for surrender. He doesn't desire men, and so their invasion is even more of an invastion. But after I'd written four more stories I found myself with two straight-to-gay fantasies in my head. Those were written up as the Idyll pair. So who knows?

I downloaded your 3 Smashwords books. (Are you like me? Checking download counts religiously?) I will also comment on them in the next day or two. My Smashwords books are also all free, all under the name of M H Keplar.

 

[AG31]

@XerXesXu
Since I'm not able to start a conversation with you, here are a couple of comments about your profile.
-----
Are you aware that this URL doesn't work? At least it didn't for me. http://authorxxx.moonfruit.com/

LOVE your quote from Marcus Aurelius!

 

[Omenainen]

The feeling the muscles in his body comes across, to me, as kind of weird - like he's disassociating to deny some form of muscular condition.

I took this to be the male counterpart to “I glanced at the mirror to fondle my perfect 36DD boobs.”

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I took this to be the male counterpart to “I glanced at the mirror to fondle my perfect 36DD boobs.”

It's a bit of telling to me rather than showing. His muscles contracted reads better than He felt. But yes, it's more about his vanity. There is a lot of wording for "What a wonderful body I have." But this is a first effort. It isn't bad considering that.

 

[AG31]

Hello, @RainyDayPen, @LoneMilf, @MillieDynamite, @AchtungNight,@Red_Herring4,@DJMac1031,@theWollstonecraftWoman, @Paul_Chance, @XerXesXu, @madelinemasoch, @electricblue66, @Omenainen,

Thanks very much to all of you. It's not often that one can get a picture of how one's stories are coming across out there. I was reassured that some people (a minority, to be sure), get what I'm about. I was also reassured that no one saw my MC as a sterotypical "submissive." Or, I don't think they did. And I was interested to see that those who didn't get what I was about shared the opinion of that first reader with negative feedback that I mentioned. That is, that Faranger is a conceited, arrogant prick.

Here are two especially apt quotes from the thread that describe what I thought Faranger was like.

RainyDayPen

Your MC comes across as very classically masculine, strong, and dominant in the nonsexual world. But once it comes to sex, he's interested in FULLY consensual BDSM play with total power exchange elements (at least for one session/night).

XerXesXu

You describe him as a normal, moderately successful person who has girlfriends, but no significant other, who is liked by his subordinates. He sees the objects in his life to be to his satisfaction. The only persons in his life you mention, Pederson and Stephanie, he sees as flawed. He’s tolerant of their flaws and feels his inattention to them may be a flaw in himself. There are homoerotic overtones to your physical descriptions of various people.

And this one, which explains the lack of attention to character in my style.

it's an intriguing story, with an air of much older erotica (Story of O, obviously).

There are two points at which readers' impressions veer away from my intentions.

1. "Perfect, perect." This causes people to think the MC is conceited, egotistical.

I was intending to portray a situation that I thought everyone (a lot of people? half the people? Some of the people?? A few people??) would recognize. That is, you're getting ready to go out on an adventure. You're excited. You're happy with yourself. Your hair looks good.You like the clothes you picked out. If you're female you might say your mood bordered on giddy - definitely light hearted. Just to be sure the situation wasn't mis-read, I have the MC show that he doesn't take himself that seriously. He can be self-deprecating. He chuckles about "his modesty" after all those "perfect" comments.

I think I'm just going to have to let this be, understanding that people will read a scene one way or another, depending on life experiences.

2 Relationship with employees

Again, I assumed a shared experience of having an opinion about how someone presents themselves without going public with that opinion and without its defining one's whole understanding of the other person. And a shared experience of living in a world where some people just don't present well.

But on this point there really is something I'd like to change. The first time I got feedback that showed that the MC wasn't coming across as intended, I added the sentence below. But this thread made me realize that it would be very easy to read it as if the MC were thinking the thought himself, and deluding himself, rather than the sentence coming from the reliable narrator (me). I haven't come up with a way to fix this. Suggestions would be welcomed.

He took some comfort in the knowledge that neither Pederson nor Stephanie would suspect he entertained such petty thoughts about them. He was well liked by his staff

There's a strong strain of people wanting more information about the MC's relationship with his employees. They want to know what the employees' motivations are for showing up at The Association. The answer for me is, exactly the same as the other tormenters' motivations It's not at all personal.

My style is intentionally spare on relationships. It's intentionally impersonal. This is a turn-off for a lot of people, but for a few of us it's a turn-on and it's part of my niche. So it will have to stand as is on this front.

Again, thanks so much to every one of you!!

 

[LoneMilf]

It was a nice exercise - and some pleasant discussions, thank you
However, I think you might want to reconsider your first point.. as far as I could see from the comments, nobody got this..

1. "Perfect, perect." This causes people to think the MC is conceited, egotistical.

I was intending to portray a situation that I thought everyone (a lot of people? half the people? Some of the people?? A few people??) would recognize. That is, you're getting ready to go out on an adventure. You're excited. You're happy with yourself. Your hair looks good.You like the clothes you picked out. If you're female you might say your mood bordered on giddy - definitely light hearted. Just to be sure the situation wasn't mis-read, I have the MC show that he doesn't take himself that seriously. He can be self-deprecating. He chuckles about "his modesty" after all those "perfect" comments.

I think I'm just going to have to let this be, understanding that people will read a scene one way or another, depending on life experiences.

 

[AG31]

It was a nice exercise - and some pleasant discussions, thank you

Glad you thought so!

However, I think you might want to reconsider your first point.. as far as I could see from the comments, nobody got this..

How do you interpret the quotes I included by @XerXesXu and @RainyDayPen? Anyway, there are definitely like-minded people out there beyond the world of Lit.

 

[LoneMilf]

How do you interpret the quotes I included by @XerXesXu and @RainyDayPen? Anyway, there are definitely like-minded people out there beyond the world of Lit.

I think they catch some of the character you were hoping for. But I didn't see anyone reading those many 'perfect' references as a way of describing the MC's mental state prior to the experience he is going for. You might want to somehow link those things a bit more directly. Just a thought

 

[AchtungNight]

Thx for your comment on my story. Any more you want to leave will be appreciated.

For me, there is no sense in worrying about stereotypes. I have encountered so many people who strengthen and defy stereotypes that I never look at them as such. Besides, profiling based on race, religion, gender, and so forth is supposed to be bad for an aspiring hero.

Judge people on individual character traits. Don’t generalize. Reality makes this the best policy.