Delving the Psyche of Masochists...

[ultramarineblue]

I think it depends on the person. For some it has been there and acknowledged always, for others it has been there and repressed or subconscious, and for some it was never there until introduced as an idea and/or desire of another. Some also come to it when other areas begin to lose their effect and they feel a craving for something more.

Catalina

That makes a lot of sense. Where would you say it comes from with you?

To add to what I said earlier, my masochism is probably more emotional than physical, but the two run a very close race. I will suffer in any shape, form, or fashion for love. I do things that others think are stupid for a tiny shred of attention from someone I love. I'll jump through whatever hoops and walk through whatever fires necessary.

In a twisted way, I love the way it makes me feel. More beautiful, more worthy of that affection. If someone just gives me something, I don't appreciate it that much, I guess. Having to suffer for it makes it all the more precious to me.

Now I'm unsure whether to go on or not.

I strongly identify with this statement. I am always blown away when someone gives me a thoughtful gift out of the blue. I definitely feel like I don't deserve it. Maybe if I would feel better if I suffered for it?

 

[Netzach]

I don't consider myself a primary masochist, nor very submissive. However, painplay on the bottom was always a nice badge of willingness to take risk, try new stuff, and find out I'm a lot tougher and more stoic than I ever thought, physically.

I grew up *highly* discouraged from rough play, physical risk, or physical pushing. I'm glad I enjoy the periodic beating to put myself in touch with some of this stuff.

I've never felt like I was taking it "for" someone else, it really doesn't compute in my head or push me harder or further. It's a nice sex enhancer though.

In terms of "what I'll do for love" the answer is a fucking fuck of a lot. But I file the resultant pain under "infinite patience" rather than "masochism" which is kind of interesting.

 

[BiBunny]

In terms of "what I'll do for love" the answer is a fucking fuck of a lot.

Me, too. I think "devoted and loyal to the point of stupidity" is a good way to describe it.

But I file the resultant pain under "infinite patience" rather than "masochism" which is kind of interesting.

I think I fall under both of those. But I crave that pain in some weird, twisted, fucked up way that I'm not entirely sure how to describe, so I reckon that's why I call it masochistic. Or something like that.

I'm never sure how much to say in discussions like these for fear someone will tell me to go with the nice men in the white coats.

 

[midwestyankee]

Me, too. I think "devoted and loyal to the point of stupidity" is a good way to describe it.



I think I fall under both of those. But I crave that pain in some weird, twisted, fucked up way that I'm not entirely sure how to describe, so I reckon that's why I call it masochistic. Or something like that.

I'm never sure how much to say in discussions like these for fear someone will tell me to go with the nice men in the white coats.

Or maybe the nice man with the crop in his hand?

 

[BiBunny]

Or maybe the nice man with the crop in his hand?

Heh. That one's acceptable.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

The men in white coats carry crops?

Damn. And I've been avoiding them all these years.

 

[rida]

Interestingly I am willing to put up with physical pain because I want to please you. But I am not going to put up with emotional pain unless I love you.

And as stated by Netzach, what I am willing to put up for love is not only a lot, but also to me does not qualify as masochis, rather as "Infinite Acceptance".

 

[catalina_francisco]

That makes a lot of sense. Where would you say it comes from with you?

Has been there as far back as my memories go, around ages of 5 or so. It kept being a factor which slipped in and out of my consciousness throughout life until I was shown there were more people like me and something I could do about indulging it.

Catalina

 

[00Syd]

I was always positive that I was submissive, but never sure how much of a masochist I am. I don't really like pain, but as I've been finding out, I can take a lot of it. I enjoy punishment, which I guess is some sort of a humiliation thing... and can take a lot of pain if its part of a punishment. Physical pain in other contexts is not something i really search for, but there are some kinds of pain that get me excited even as I'm hating it. I don't really understand all my wants and limits and dislikes yet as far as physical masochism goes, but I'm figuring it out.

I do know for sure that I am very emotionally masochistic. I find myself searching out all the bad things in a situation, and I dwell on them, and I make myself sad, hopeless, and self pitying. I do it because somewhere twisted deep, deep inside that sense of despair feels really good. This has fulled depression and put serious strains on my relationships.

I'm beginning to think that I could possibly funnel my emotional masochism into something more physical. Does anyone else have any experience with this? I think that maybe a sense of physical punishment or humiliation could lesson the instances of self induced depression, but I'm not really sure.

 

[BiBunny]

I was always positive that I was submissive, but never sure how much of a masochist I am. I don't really like pain, but as I've been finding out, I can take a lot of it. I enjoy punishment, which I guess is some sort of a humiliation thing... and can take a lot of pain if its part of a punishment. Physical pain in other contexts is not something i really search for, but there are some kinds of pain that get me excited even as I'm hating it. I don't really understand all my wants and limits and dislikes yet as far as physical masochism goes, but I'm figuring it out.

I do know for sure that I am very emotionally masochistic. I find myself searching out all the bad things in a situation, and I dwell on them, and I make myself sad, hopeless, and self pitying. I do it because somewhere twisted deep, deep inside that sense of despair feels really good. This has fulled depression and put serious strains on my relationships.

I'm beginning to think that I could possibly funnel my emotional masochism into something more physical. Does anyone else have any experience with this? I think that maybe a sense of physical punishment or humiliation could lesson the instances of self induced depression, but I'm not really sure.

Obligatory warning: S&M is not a substitute for therapy. I've said that time and again, and I feel like I have to add it now, too.

On the other hand, yes, painplay relieves tension. The endorphins do a good job of overriding nasty emotions like sadness, anger, etc. Again, it's not a substitute for professional help, but it can help you get on the upswing again, and if you can keep that momentum going once the endorphins are out of your system, then fabulous.

Keep in mind, though, that brain chemicals are unpredictable things. You can't count on something like this to always make you feel better because sometimes it'll leave you feeling worse than you did to start with.

I guess you gotta take the good with the bad, ya know?

 

[00Syd]

Obligatory warning: S&M is not a substitute for therapy. I've said that time and again, and I feel like I have to add it now, too.

On the other hand, yes, painplay relieves tension. The endorphins do a good job of overriding nasty emotions like sadness, anger, etc. Again, it's not a substitute for professional help, but it can help you get on the upswing again, and if you can keep that momentum going once the endorphins are out of your system, then fabulous.

Keep in mind, though, that brain chemicals are unpredictable things. You can't count on something like this to always make you feel better because sometimes it'll leave you feeling worse than you did to start with.

I guess you gotta take the good with the bad, ya know?

Yes, I know that S&M is not a substitute for therapy, but thank you for the warning anywhichway I am at this very moment trying to get an off-campus referral from my schools Counseling center, which will hopefully help and lead to good things.

I've been trying to do all the right things to feel better. I got on a much healthier sleep schedule, I have a class schedule that actually gives me time to do the work which has gone leagues towards relieving stress, etc, etc. I've been getting involved with a guy who has been helping me scratch all the right itches, too, which I think will also really help in the long run.

I guess I was just curious if anyone had a similar experience to what I'm having dealing with emotions and whatnot in relation to masochism. If that makes any sense.

Thanks so much for your advice, its truly appreciated.

 

[BiBunny]

Yes, I know that S&M is not a substitute for therapy, but thank you for the warning anywhichway I am at this very moment trying to get an off-campus referral from my schools Counseling center, which will hopefully help and lead to good things.

I've been trying to do all the right things to feel better. I got on a much healthier sleep schedule, I have a class schedule that actually gives me time to do the work which has gone leagues towards relieving stress, etc, etc. I've been getting involved with a guy who has been helping me scratch all the right itches, too, which I think will also really help in the long run.

I guess I was just curious if anyone had a similar experience to what I'm having dealing with emotions and whatnot in relation to masochism. If that makes any sense.

Thanks so much for your advice, its truly appreciated.

I figured you already knew 'cause you're smart. It's not you I'm worried about. It's Billy Joe Dumbass with a sick wife, a bullwhip, and a set of jumper cables that I'm concerned about.

If I feel like shit, I find that I'm often able to drag myself out of the hole after a heavy scene. Often. Not always. Like I said, brain chemistry is a funny thing. Sometimes I feel worse.

Have you ever read The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath? (I have to plug it occasionally; it's my favorite book by my favorite writer.) The main character goes through all these terrible things that get progressively worse most of the way through the book. She says her mental illness makes her feel like a fetus pickled in a bell jar, stagnating in her own sour air. At the end of the book, when she starts getting better, she says she can feel the jar suspended above her head. She's getting fresh air now and a new outlook on life, but there's no guarantee the bell jar won't descend again someday.

I think that's how it works, at least for me, anyway. A rough scene with some of the things I really like (breast bondage, nipple torture, heavy humiliation, cock-sucking, human toilet, forced orgasms--notice "having my ass beaten" is nowhere on the list for me) will generally pull the jar up over my head. The jolt of fresh air is usually enough to keep me going even after the endorphins are gone, but it's up to me to make sure the jar doesn't descend again within a few days.

It's all a process, I think.

 

[Netzach]

Yes, I know that S&M is not a substitute for therapy, but thank you for the warning anywhichway I am at this very moment trying to get an off-campus referral from my schools Counseling center, which will hopefully help and lead to good things.

I've been trying to do all the right things to feel better. I got on a much healthier sleep schedule, I have a class schedule that actually gives me time to do the work which has gone leagues towards relieving stress, etc, etc. I've been getting involved with a guy who has been helping me scratch all the right itches, too, which I think will also really help in the long run.

I guess I was just curious if anyone had a similar experience to what I'm having dealing with emotions and whatnot in relation to masochism. If that makes any sense.

Thanks so much for your advice, its truly appreciated.

H definitely reports cathartic feelings of lightness and all right with the world if I merely call him up and say something mean to him in that special tone of voice.

It's not therapy, but you're smart, you know that. Therapeutic, though, sure can be.

 

[00Syd]

H definitely reports cathartic feelings of lightness and all right with the world if I merely call him up and say something mean to him in that special tone of voice.

It's not therapy, but you're smart, you know that. Therapeutic, though, sure can be.

Shit yeah.

 

[rida]

I was always positive that I was submissive, but never sure how much of a masochist I am. I don't really like pain, but as I've been finding out, I can take a lot of it. I enjoy punishment, which I guess is some sort of a humiliation thing... and can take a lot of pain if its part of a punishment. Physical pain in other contexts is not something i really search for, but there are some kinds of pain that get me excited even as I'm hating it. I don't really understand all my wants and limits and dislikes yet as far as physical masochism goes, but I'm figuring it out.

I hate punishment with a vengeance. I do NOT want to be punished. I'll do my damn best not to fail, and when I do fail and I know it, I'm going to feel horrible but still hoping to wiggle out of being punished (the "dog ate my homework" approach). Of course, I'll take whatever is dished out if it is deserved, but it will not make me feel better. There is no amount of punishment that is going to be enough in my mind to make up for a failure. The only way to atone for a failure is by not failing the following time.

For that reason I don't really like the idea of having to set up "failures" to dish out "punishments". I much prefer the "I'm dishing out what I want because I enjoy it and you take it because it is your place to take it" mindset when it comes to pain. No moral or redeeming value added, just a simple "this gets me off".

Humiliation is another ball game entirely for me and works much better to put me back in my place. There is nothing more humiliating than being called upon an infraction that slipped out in spite of my best efforts. A quick face slap when I'm out of line, when I'm not up to whatever standard I'm supposed to uphold works wonder.

I do know for sure that I am very emotionally masochistic. I find myself searching out all the bad things in a situation, and I dwell on them, and I make myself sad, hopeless, and self pitying. I do it because somewhere twisted deep, deep inside that sense of despair feels really good. This has fulled depression and put serious strains on my relationships.

I'm beginning to think that I could possibly funnel my emotional masochism into something more physical. Does anyone else have any experience with this? I think that maybe a sense of physical punishment or humiliation could lesson the instances of self induced depression, but I'm not really sure.

The bolded part, I used to do it from time to time. It is very cathartic to wallow in despair. And even more so if I could do it in front of someone that was going to reassure me of my worth.

Now thou I wonder how would it feel to do it in the presence of a Sadist that is going to "kick you while you are down" so to speak ...
Darn. I'm afraid that if I love the Sadist ... I'm just going to fall even more in love after a scene like that

 

[CutieMouse]

So far pain hasn't been predictable for me either, and I have to admit I'm impatient about it sometimes. There are times I'm just yelping and ouching all over the place, when I wish so much I could be stoic and taking it obediently.

Oh I yelp and ouch and grumble all over the place sometimes. I've been known to emphatically state my hatred of certain things. Doesn't stop me from agreeing to the use/tolerating/taking it, but it would be less than honest to say I'm an obediently stoic sort of submissive masochist... I obey - sometimes I just struggle (mentally, emotionally, physically) as I do so.

If the other party (dominant/sadist) was expecting stoic submission he'd be sorely disappointed and I'd feel a failure; however, if he were the sort to enjoy the internal wars involved in such things, I can see it working rather well for both.

 

[00Syd]

I hate punishment with a vengeance. I do NOT want to be punished. I'll do my damn best not to fail, and when I do fail and I know it, I'm going to feel horrible but still hoping to wiggle out of being punished (the "dog ate my homework" approach). Of course, I'll take whatever is dished out if it is deserved, but it will not make me feel better. There is no amount of punishment that is going to be enough in my mind to make up for a failure. The only way to atone for a failure is by not failing the following time.

For that reason I don't really like the idea of having to set up "failures" to dish out "punishments". I much prefer the "I'm dishing out what I want because I enjoy it and you take it because it is your place to take it" mindset when it comes to pain. No moral or redeeming value added, just a simple "this gets me off".

Humiliation is another ball game entirely for me and works much better to put me back in my place. There is nothing more humiliating than being called upon an infraction that slipped out in spite of my best efforts. A quick face slap when I'm out of line, when I'm not up to whatever standard I'm supposed to uphold works wonder.




The bolded part, I used to do it from time to time. It is very cathartic to wallow in despair. And even more so if I could do it in front of someone that was going to reassure me of my worth.

Now thou I wonder how would it feel to do it in the presence of a Sadist that is going to "kick you while you are down" so to speak ...
Darn. I'm afraid that if I love the Sadist ... I'm just going to fall even more in love after a scene like that

You know, I'm not sure how to describe the way I like punishments.

I hate them. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. They are not fun, I feel terrible for doing something wrong, I'm scared, and it hurts, sometimes I cry, and I hate it. I do not do things in order to fail on purpose, and I feel terrible when I do.

But yet, I find myself looking back on it fondly. I feel better afterward. I fantasize about it during class. I don't understand it at all, but there it is.

The part I bolded... when I think about that I'm like "yeeeahh, me too!" I don't usually enjoy the actual pain itself, no matter the situation, but feel like in that situation it would be ten times more tolerable. In practice, though, I have a much easier time "taking it" in the form of a punishment than anything else... fuck if I know why. Maybe because I know I deserve it? I'm not sure.

A quick slap or specific look really works for me as well.

I wouldn't say that wallowing in despair is exactly cathartic for me. I compulsively do it, because it scratches some itch way deep inside, but ultimately it hurts me and everyone else around me. I really want to find a way to stop doing it.

 

[intothewoods]

Oh I yelp and ouch and grumble all over the place sometimes. I've been known to emphatically state my hatred of certain things. Doesn't stop me from agreeing to the use/tolerating/taking it, but it would be less than honest to say I'm an obediently stoic sort of submissive masochist... I obey - sometimes I just struggle (mentally, emotionally, physically) as I do so.

If the other party (dominant/sadist) was expecting stoic submission he'd be sorely disappointed and I'd feel a failure; however, if he were the sort to enjoy the internal wars involved in such things, I can see it working rather well for both.

I think the fact that I am out of control if I'm yelping is the hardest thing to accept. I used to think pain was the hardest thing to tolerate, but I suppose accepting that I have no control really (except to call the scene) is in fact much harder.

 

[wicked woman]

If the other party (dominant/sadist) was expecting stoic submission he'd be sorely disappointed and I'd feel a failure; however, if he were the sort to enjoy the internal wars involved in such things, I can see it working rather well for both.

I used to try and be stoic...thought that's what would please him. But it wasn't. He preferred hearing my moans and groans...and yelps. It excites him to hear the effect he's having on me...and it also let's him gage where I am in my ability to take the pain.

 

[rida]

You know, I'm not sure how to describe the way I like punishments.

I hate them. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. They are not fun, I feel terrible for doing something wrong, I'm scared, and it hurts, sometimes I cry, and I hate it. I do not do things in order to fail on purpose, and I feel terrible when I do.

But yet, I find myself looking back on it fondly. I feel better afterward. I fantasize about it during class. I don't understand it at all, but there it is.

.....

I don't feel better after a punishment. I might even feel worse, if possible, because I'm supposed to feel better but I don't. The mind is a curious and confusing thing, isn't it?

I also don't think that all failure deserve punishment: having tried hard and your damned best ought to count for something.

 

[rida]

I think the fact that I am out of control if I'm yelping is the hardest thing to accept. I used to think pain was the hardest thing to tolerate, but I suppose accepting that I have no control really (except to call the scene) is in fact much harder.

I yelp and scream and try to move away. If I am ordered to stay still, I try but the moment the pain hit, depending on the type, I cannot control the way my body reacts.

I don't perceive the yelping as being out of control. In my case, it is more the opposite, the inability of letting the control go. I feel somehow that my inability of giving into pain is what prevent me from being able to stay still. Or perhaps is the other way around. At any rate somewhere in my mind it says that the two things go hand in hand and I will accomplish one when I accomplish the other.

Luckily the Sadist enjoys the vocal suffering and the body jerking, although I think he gets frustrated at time with the trying to move away part (I believe thou he gets over the frustration by adding some extra hits).

 

[aNoYoNoMoUs]

im the sadist in my current dom/fem 'setup' (for lack of an imagination to think up a better word), but i'm reading this to try to understand my subs mind-set better

we do talk, but she isnt so good with finding the right words (much like me *see above*)

i tend to tie her down so she cant struggle, or so she can but she can't get away

the bondage equally frustrates/excites her

I still don't fully understand the masoch. psyche though..

and on the flip side (if i may - although i have a feeling it should be in another post), i don't understand my sadistic psyche either

why do i enjoy giving my sub pain?
partially b/c i know she wants/enjoys it
i want to please her
another bit i haven't figured out yet

DISjointed - sorry

 

[Hisscarlett]

I hate being punished. I would do anything to ensure that Master doesn't feel the need to punish me. Thankfully we are now in the stage of our relationship where I know the boundaries and limits and recognise from the slightest movement of his eyebrow when to stop doing something. This means that there is rarely a reason for Master to punish me. Which, as he pointed out to me was the whole point of punishing me early in our relationship as part of my training.

He is still training me, he has told me that it is a life long process, but now he has no need to punish me in the ways he used to. He knows that the idea of displeasing or disappointing him is more than enough incentive to keep me on track.

Pain was something he never used as punishment, partially because he knows how much I love the pain he gives me but also because he didn't want to have it become something connected with his displeasure in my mind.

I would do anything for Master, a phrase he has trained me to say every time I am allowed to orgasm. At the outset that idea was just that, an idea. But he worked with me, using various methods to get me to understand that saying I would do anything for him isn't just a phrase but is an actual state of mind.

And beyond that it isn't that I would do anything for him just to please him but that I would do anything for him because his wants and desires have become my wants and desires. I have truly given up my will to him.

That is not to say that I only want what he does, I do have my own wants, but they are secondary to his and I let them go if he tells me that they are not what he wants. It is hard to explain and took a lot of mental anguish and emotional pain to get to this stage but it makes me happy.

 

[unfoundiamond]

Masolacalypse

A few people hinted at this in another thread. I'm playing off RJ's Delving the Psyche of Sadists Thread, of course: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=287554

I am not a heavy bottom by any means, but I do enjoy pain. It's a huge release for me. It's erotic, cathartic, a way to connect to my PYL. In the context of a play session with a Top other than my PYL, it's a different experience. Taking the pain isn't a means of submission. It's more of an internal battle of wills to get myself to let go. I have a huge initial panic reaction to stingy pain, but if I can get past it the session can be really good.

And then there is humiliation. I can take a lot of the right kind of humiliation. I don't know what that's all about, except that I'm a sucker for the good girl/bad girl dichotomy. I am a huge pleaser, and I hang on to my mistakes forever. If I can connect the pain, humiliation, whatever to my sins, I'll take a whole heck of a lot, and still think I deserve more. I never forgive myself for anything. Not really. That's a big part of masochism for me. I will suffer again and again and again for anything, really. Feeling pain, humiliation, suffering in any visceral way in the moment is better than torturing myself for some past sin. This is all very Yom Kippur appropriate, btw.

Well, I just wanted to get the ball rolling. What is masochism for you?

Here's a question -- is there a difference between heavy bottoms who enjoy pain, and masochists who enjoy hating the pain? Or are heavy bottoms just enjoy the suffering?

So,

Is there s diffrence between a bottom who likes the pain, and one who enjoys the act and not the pain (enjoys suffreing for the dom, but doesnt get good vibrations from the pain)

Yes, one is a Maso- the one who enjoys the pain, and the other is either a person who enjoys to endure the pain as a sign of submission, a submissive, to me...

There is always 500 different types, like one who likes the endorphins from the pain, but doesn't enjoy the journey to getting the endorphins... or maybe doesnt like it till its over,

or you have the Maso who isnt a sub, but lust likes the pain, so they elect someone the giver of the pain, to serve them self...

Its just one of those things,

HEAVIEST BOTTOM, is relative... for someone, say a masochistic Dom taking the pain because they like it, they may be able to take more pain than the little low pain tolerance subbie, but the submission and devotion, even sensations may be stronger to the and within the small, not so good with taking the pain antiMaso...

PAIN is relative, and Perspective....

We can speculate... but thats just that.