Democrats and Republicans -- One, Two-Headed, Oligarchic, Ruling-Class Apparatus:

[Pavlovsdog6862]

Conspicuously absent from the list are any actions against Republicans. You only seem interested in attacking Democrats and unions.

Probably because most of you are TDS Democrats who spout off what’s wrong with everything the OTHER side does

 

[Chernosoth]

Holy, do you get paid by the word? Have your soliloquies here or anything you have ever done gained any tangible support for socialism?

 

[Holy_Seduction]

let me see what you’re trying to say

Let me help you:

A ruling class united in its essentials [the defense of profit, the prosecution of war, the suppression of the working class] and divided only over which faction gets to manage the looting and seize the lion's share of the plunder.

An outstandingly brilliant bloke such as yourself should have no trouble distinguishing that from your earlier take.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

The American party system is NOT one two-headed oligarchic ruling class apparatus.

However, it IS a one-eyed, one-horned, flying purple people eater.

So make a substantive response to the original statement -- and at least make a stab at the questions formulated at its close. Given how wrong the position is, that should certainly pose no difficulty . . .

 

[Pavlovsdog6862]

Let me help you:

A ruling class united in its essentials [the defense of profit, the prosecution of war, the suppression of the working class] and divided only over which faction gets to manage the looting and seize the lion's share of the plunder.

An outstandingly brilliant bloke such as yourself should have no trouble distinguishing that from your earlier take.

My take is both sides suck so

 

[Holy_Seduction]

You only seem interested in attacking Democrats and unions.

' . . . we demanded Trump's immediate removal.'

' . . . we demanded that ICE be disbanded.'

And your faction?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

' . . . we demanded Trump's immediate removal.'

' . . . we demanded that ICE be disbanded.'

And your faction?

Pro democracy and antifascist. All our current troubles could have been avoided if the left had helped us elect Kamala Harris last year.

 

[Chernosoth]

The ideologues and partisans with tribal loyalty instead of ideology have the same tendency of telling the wage class majority what they should want and how they should vote, instead of asking and listening to what they want, frequently followed by insults for anyone who disagrees. There is another type of propagandist: people who know what the majority wants and see those interests in direct conflict with their own interests. They may believe they can keep all of the pie they currently have, or they know they are fighting in a retreat to delay losing pie.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

All our current troubles could have been avoided if the left had helped us elect Kamala Harris last year.

That perspective is why you're in this mess. This crisis is not electoral; it is structural and systemic. Trotskyists didn’t crash the economy in 2008. We didn’t call for the Iraq War. We didn’t incur massive, public debt. We didn't destabilize global supply chains, and we didn’t promote rampant militarism or erode social conditions.

The center did that. The CENTER.

Telling us to shut up and fall into line every four years is how we got a Democratic Party with no analysis, and that offers no serious alternative into the status quo. The refusal to build serious opposition brought us where we are.

The clearest display of the consequences of that failure occurred with the recent SOTU screed, which consisted of a pack of Republican fascists on one side of the isle, leaping to their feet to grunt 'USA, USA' [the American equivalent of 'Sieg Heil'] every time their Führer paused for breath. On the other side sat cowardly representatives of a fake opposition Democratic Party, hands folded in laps, enduring nearly two hours of open insults, abuse and incitement from a man who called them 'sick people,' 'crazy,' 'cheaters' who are 'destroying our country.' And when it was over?

They shuffled out of the chamber, and handed the microphone to an ex-CIA operative who invoked her intelligence credentials and warned that Trump was 'ceding economic power and technological strength to China' and 'bowing down to a Russian dictator.' Her sleep-inducing rebuttal about 'affordability' and 'competent management' was a self-indictment by what she did NOT say.

She did not speak the names of Renée Good or Alex Pretti. She did not denounce the invasion of Venezuela or the genocide in Gaza. She did not challenge the trillion-dollar military budget or the assault on social programs. And why? It is because Democrats do not object to the machine of repression and war. They object only to the crudeness with which Trump operates it.

That is the state of American 'democracy' in 2026. A fascist president and a compliant opposition. A ruling class united in essentials — the defense of profit, the prosecution of war, the suppression of the working class — and divided only over which faction gets to manage and take the lion's share of the looting.

The fight against fascism, against imperialist war, against the dictatorship of the billionaire oligarchy, will not come from the Capitol. It will come from below — from factories, warehouses, hospitals, schools and neighborhoods where working people actually live and labor. It will come from the independent political mobilization of the working class on the basis of a socialist program. Or it will not come at all.

Virginia's Governor Spanberger began her remarks saying that the US was based on the idea that the people could 'band together to demand better of their government.' Really? Is that so? Are we to believe that when confronted with an oppressive government, the Founders made the point to 'demand better' of King George III? That is untrue.

Thomas Jefferson wrote that when confronted with an oppressive government, 'it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.' The Founders declared independence and waged an eight-year revolutionary war. Isn't it.

Given that the working class has no voice in US capitalism's political system, that neither party represents its interests, that neither party will defend its rights, and that the entire framework of official politics exists to prevent the working class from recognizing itself as a class, from organizing itself independently, and from fighting for its own interests against the class that exploits it -- it is in Jefferson's tradition that today's global working class must stand.

As for the puerile assertion that 'all our current troubles could have been avoided' by electing Harris, know this: the Ship of State rammed the iceberg of capitalist crisis decades ago [see paragraph 1 for details]. Your complaint concerns the arrangement of deck chairs on the night of the sinking.

Conclusion: you don’t need our votes; you need our diagnosis.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

That perspective is why you're in this mess. This crisis is not electoral; it is structural and systemic. Trotskyists didn’t crash the economy in 2008. We didn’t call for the Iraq War. We didn’t incur massive, public debt. We didn't destabilize global supply chains, and we didn’t promote rampant militarism or erode social conditions.

The center did that. The CENTER.

Telling us to shut up and fall into line every four years is how we got a Democratic Party with no analysis, and that offers no serious alternative into the status quo. The refusal to build serious opposition brought us where we are.

The clearest display of the consequences of that failure occurred with the recent SOTU screed, which consisted of a pack of Republican fascists on one side of the isle, leaping to their feet to grunt 'USA, USA' [the American equivalent of 'Sieg Heil'] every time their Führer paused for breath. On the other side sat cowardly representatives of a fake opposition Democratic Party, hands folded in laps, enduring nearly two hours of open insults, abuse and incitement from a man who called them 'sick people,' 'crazy,' 'cheaters' who are 'destroying our country.' And when it was over?

They shuffled out of the chamber, and handed the microphone to an ex-CIA operative who invoked her intelligence credentials and warned that Trump was 'ceding economic power and technological strength to China' and 'bowing down to a Russian dictator.' Her sleep-inducing rebuttal about 'affordability' and 'competent management' was a self-indictment by what she did NOT say.

She did not speak the names of Renée Good or Alex Pretti. She did not denounce the invasion of Venezuela or the genocide in Gaza. She did not challenge the trillion-dollar military budget or the assault on social programs. And why? It is because Democrats do not object to the machine of repression and war. They object only to the crudeness with which Trump operates it.

That is the state of American 'democracy' in 2026. A fascist president and a compliant opposition. A ruling class united in essentials — the defense of profit, the prosecution of war, the suppression of the working class — and divided only over which faction gets to manage and take the lion's share of the looting.

The fight against fascism, against imperialist war, against the dictatorship of the billionaire oligarchy, will not come from the Capitol. It will come from below — from factories, warehouses, hospitals, schools and neighborhoods where working people actually live and labor. It will come from the independent political mobilization of the working class on the basis of a socialist program. Or it will not come at all.

Virginia's Governor Spanberger began her remarks saying that the US was based on the idea that the people could 'band together to demand better of their government.' Really? Is that so? Are we to believe that when confronted with an oppressive government, the Founders made the point to 'demand better' of King George III? That is untrue.

Thomas Jefferson wrote that when confronted with an oppressive government, 'it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.' The Founders declared independence and waged an eight-year revolutionary war. Isn't it.

Given that the working class has no voice in US capitalism's political system, that neither party represents its interests, that neither party will defend its rights, and that the entire framework of official politics exists to prevent the working class from recognizing itself as a class, from organizing itself independently, and from fighting for its own interests against the class that exploits it -- it is in Jefferson's tradition that today's global working class must stand.

As for the puerile assertion that 'all our current troubles could have been avoided' by electing Harris, know this: the Ship of State rammed the iceberg of capitalist crisis decades ago [see paragraph 1 for details]. Your complaint concerns the arrangement of deck chairs on the night of the sinking.

Conclusion: you don’t need our votes; you need our diagnosis.

The house is on fire and you're arguing about the architecture. If you don't help put out the fire now, you get no seat at the table when we discuss rebuilding.

Incidentally, there is no "genocide" in Gaza. That lie was spread by Jew-haters on the far left and helped Donald Trump get elected.

 

[Wilson23]

The house is on fire and you're arguing about the architecture. If you don't help put out the fire now, you get no seat at the table when we discuss rebuilding.

Incidentally, there is no "genocide" in Gaza. That lie was spread by Jew-haters on the far left and helped Donald Trump get elected.

You're like Chesterton on Catholicism -- your entire sense of ethics and decency is dislocated as soon as Israel is involved.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You're like Chesterton on Catholicism -- your entire sense of ethics and decency is dislocated as soon as Israel is involved.

Many people who profess liberal values are bigoted toward Jews. They apply standards to Israel they don't apply to any other country.

 

[Wilson23]

Let me help you:

A ruling class united in its essentials [the defense of profit, the prosecution of war, the suppression of the working class] and divided only over which faction gets to manage the looting and seize the lion's share of the plunder.

An outstandingly brilliant bloke such as yourself should have no trouble distinguishing that from your earlier take.

It is simply that it DOES make a difference to the working class and everybody else who wins elections. Things in general go better when Dems win. Half a loaf, you know?

 

[Wilson23]

Many people who profess liberal values are bigoted toward Jews. They apply standards to Israel they don't apply to any other country.

What? The Chinese ain't getting a pass for what they're doing to the Uighurs -- which is kindness itself compared to what the Israelis are doing to the Gazans.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

What? The Chinese ain't getting a pass for what they're doing to the Uighurs -- which is kindness itself compared to what the Israelis are doing to the Gazans.

The ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in the the Gazan war was about about 1:1 -- historically low for an urban conflict. What do you believe Israel deserves condemnation for?

 

[Wilson23]

The ratio of civilian to combatant deaths in the the Gazan war was about about 1:1 -- historically low for an urban conflict. What do you believe Israel deserves condemnation for?

Destroying the cities.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Destroying the cities.

That's on the Gazans themselves. They spent years building miles of tunnels and bunkers under the civilian buildings. The IDF risked the lives of Israeli soldiers to go house to house to clear out the fortifications.