depression and BD/SM

[where]

No no, it's quite all right! I am a gung-ho sociology student, but you know this stuff. I appreciate the lecture!

oh god, now I'm blushing!

 

[Etoile]

would that be Quantitive Feedback Theory?

or quit fucking talking?

Quoted For Truth!

Means I liked your post.

 

[welkin]

This thread is so very educational.

Just saying, I personally don't think it's desirable or even safe for the truly depressed to be in a D/s relationship to begin with... as already said in this thread, it's a form of escapism and, without a strong and stable state of mind, it may possibly aggravate the condition.

 

[ownedsubgal]

This thread is so very educational.

Just saying, I personally don't think it's desirable or even safe for the truly depressed to be in a D/s relationship to begin with... as already said in this thread, it's a form of escapism and, without a strong and stable state of mind, it may possibly aggravate the condition.

this way of thinking really bothers me, because it's basically saying that anyone afflicted with a mental illness, no matter how well they are managing it, is completely incapable of making sound choices for their own lives and should refrain from attempting to find the happiness, peace or pleasure that everyone else is entitled to.

i suffer from major depression...it has been with me since very early childhood, is a suffocating cloud that walks with me always. D/s is in no way a form of escape for me...quite the opposite, it has allowed me to truly LIVE, and to be accepted and loved for who i genuinely am. it has allowed me a life without shame or secrets. and it has shown me that, contrary to what my depression monster would have me believe, i am someone of value, and my life has purpose.

as to there being a link between an interest in BDSM and depression...i don't see one. as to a link between submissive personalities and depression, there could be something there, as submissive-natured people are more vulnerable to abuse and mistreatment, and experiencing those things can lead to severe depression. however as many here are quick to point out, lifestyle submissives do not necessarily have submissive personalities. for some it is a conscious choice, driven by inspiration or pleasure or both. but i would also like to point out that for some of us it is not.

 

[where]

as to there being a link between an interest in BDSM and depression...i don't see one. as to a link between submissive personalities and depression, there could be something there, as submissive-natured people are more vulnerable to abuse and mistreatment, and experiencing those things can lead to severe depression. however as many here are quick to point out, lifestyle submissives do not necessarily have submissive personalities. for some it is a conscious choice, driven by inspiration or pleasure or both. but i would also like to point out that for some of us it is not.

also, and seriously I swear there is a PhD in this idea, somewhere, a submissive who does experience depression or mental distress in other ways may actually be better off in a D/s relationship as long as the PYL is aware and also doesn't exploit it. My (limited) experience of D/s relationships is that they tend towards the hyper-ethical and hyper-caring/nurturing which is perhaps better than just being told to have a glass of wine and get over it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

word.

 

[neci]

This thread is so very educational.

Just saying, I personally don't think it's desirable or even safe for the truly depressed to be in a D/s relationship to begin with... as already said in this thread, it's a form of escapism and, without a strong and stable state of mind, it may possibly aggravate the condition.

This way of thinking bothers me as well. I've lived with depression for fifteen years. I have a set of tools that help me cope with this part of me. I don't use BDSM as a way of escaping. I have found that open communication with my PYL, about where I am, helps our relationship to be stronger. He is not going to magically fix me, nor do I expect him to.

As someone who is sexually submissive and pretty masochistic, I derive pleasure from my sex life when I engage in BDSM. Maybe it's because of the endorphin rush I experience, which I would argue can be similar to a good work out. With proper aftercare, I usually feel more relaxed and even giddy following a scene.

I would also argue that some time spent on my knees giving a nice long blowjob helps me focus and relax. Cum therapy? Who knows. I'm not submissive because I feel like shit, and want someone else to run my life. I don't enjoy verbal humiliation, and have discovered that, for me, it is a hard limit, because it can trigger my depression and makes me anxious.

Depression does not have to be a life sentence, although there are times that my brain tells me it is. The bottom line is that I have to be vigilant about my depression. I have to reach out to those around me when I feel myself sinking in. I have to make sure that I see my doctor, and am honest with him about what is going on. My PYL wants me to feel good. He wants me emotionally stable and happy. If he didn't, I wouldn't be with him.

 

[welkin]

also, and seriously I swear there is a PhD in this idea, somewhere, a submissive who does experience depression or mental distress in other ways may actually be better off in a D/s relationship as long as the PYL is aware and also doesn't exploit it. My (limited) experience of D/s relationships is that they tend towards the hyper-ethical and hyper-caring/nurturing which is perhaps better than just being told to have a glass of wine and get over it.

I would disagree, I think this description of PYL could be as unfounded as OP's question about pyl, unless you can prove otherwise, of course. As far as I have seen, bdsm has the same gamut of kind, considerate people to selfish exploiting bastards. Normal relationship could be just as nurturing. It's a question of the people, not sexual kinks.

As are the bdsm "benefits" mentioned by others, such as open line of communication, which I do not think is something particular to bdsm relationships.

 

[welkin]

I will however apologize and retract my earlier statement as it is overly categorical. I just meant given the relatively intense and dangerous nature of bdsm, I think it should be entered with extra care, and perhaps much more so for those with depression. But for those who did make a well informed decision, all the better for you.

 

[FurryFury]

I don't believe that submissives are more fragile, and more easily drawn into abuse or depression. Some might be. My guess, we have no real data to draw from is that, most submissives are actually very strong emotionally and physically.

It doesn't matter if they were previously abused as kids, which again, a huge group of the human race is.

It doesn't matter if they are depressed sometimes or clinically. Those are entirely separate issues.

Submissives are strong enough to know themselves. They are strong enough to find and enter into a D/s relationship that consensually, gives them what they crave.

 

[where]

I would disagree, I think this description of PYL could be as unfounded as OP's question about pyl, unless you can prove otherwise, of course. As far as I have seen, bdsm has the same gamut of kind, considerate people to selfish exploiting bastards. Normal relationship could be just as nurturing. It's a question of the people, not sexual kinks.

As are the bdsm "benefits" mentioned by others, such as open line of communication, which I do not think is something particular to bdsm relationships.

well I said my experience was limited. I'm sure (in fact I know) there are abusive wankers and assholes who self identify as 'Doms". And yes there are many vanilla relationships which are nurturing and caring. My point is that I don't think that a bdsm relationship is any more detrimental to a sub who experiences mental ill health than a 'nilla one and that because many Doms are so aware of the kind of complex interplay that such relationships entail, then they may be more beneficial than a straightforward relationship.

I will however apologize and retract my earlier statement as it is overly categorical. I just meant given the relatively intense and dangerous nature of bdsm, I think it should be entered with extra care, and perhaps much more so for those with depression. But for those who did make a well informed decision, all the better for you.

you make the assumption that vanilla relationships are simple and non-abusive. they really are not.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't believe that submissives are more fragile, and more easily drawn into abuse or depression. Some might be. My guess, we have no real data to draw from is that, most submissives are actually very strong emotionally and physically.

It doesn't matter if they were previously abused as kids, which again, a huge group of the human race is.

It doesn't matter if they are depressed sometimes or clinically. Those are entirely separate issues.

Submissives are strong enough to know themselves. They are strong enough to find and enter into a D/s relationship that consensually, gives them what they crave.

that is why i was careful to make the distinction between "submissive" as a lifestyle orientation, and submissive as an overall personality type. i would agree with you that those of a submissive orientation are not necessarily any more vulnerable or fragile than anyone else. however i strongly believe that those with submissive personalities, absolutely are. it does a grave disservice to many survivors of abuse to deny that no one is any more vulnerable than anyone else.

the key, imo, is recognizing one's vulnerability and learning to survive and then thrive in life despite it.

 

[FurryFury]

that is why i was careful to make the distinction between "submissive" as a lifestyle orientation, and submissive as an overall personality type. i would agree with you that those of a submissive orientation are not necessarily any more vulnerable or fragile than anyone else. however i strongly believe that those with submissive personalities, absolutely are. it does a grave disservice to many survivors of abuse to deny that no one is any more vulnerable than anyone else.

the key, imo, is recognizing one's vulnerability and learning to survive and then thrive in life despite it.

Hold on. I'm a survivor of abuse. Nothing I said, would be considered a disservice to my way of thinking. I'll say right out that doesn't mean I wasn't strong. It simply meant I was a child and later, in a bad head space which I have now worked on extensively and largely fixed.

A child is more vulnerable simply because the caregivers that are supposed to be there in a healthy way are adults. Not to mention a child has different developmental stages and can't process certain things well at certain stages.

An adult can make good choices about what they put up with and what they do no.. They may not but they can. I'd prefer to be submissive in every area of my life and with everyone, but everyone is not trustworthy or someone I can respect, so I have to be strong enough to take care of myself. If I'm not, that's on me to change or fix.

At one time, as an adult, I put up with a lot of abuse. It was NOT a D/s relationship though. At no time did I feel weak either. I did feel I was looking at things from the wrong perspective, in order to do my best, for myself.

 

[Primalex]

I'm almost certain that I saw something recently about a study that had determined that its participants who were into BDSM were no more likely to have been abused than the ones who weren't. But for the life of me, I can't remember where I saw it.

And then I wouldn't believe its content anyway.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Hold on. I'm a survivor of abuse. Nothing I said, would be considered a disservice to my way of thinking. I'll say right out that doesn't mean I wasn't strong. It simply meant I was a child and later, in a bad head space which I have now worked on extensively and largely fixed.

A child is more vulnerable simply because the caregivers that are supposed to be there in a healthy way are adults. Not to mention a child has different developmental stages and can't process certain things well at certain stages.

An adult can make good choices about what they put up with and what they do no.. They may not but they can. I'd prefer to be submissive in every area of my life and with everyone, but everyone is not trustworthy or someone I can respect, so I have to be strong enough to take care of myself. If I'm not, that's on me to change or fix.

At one time, as an adult, I put up with a lot of abuse. It was NOT a D/s relationship though. At no time did I feel weak either. I did feel I was looking at things from the wrong perspective, in order to do my best, for myself.

vulnerability to abuse is by no means limited to children, and even among children some are more vulnerable than others. this is in no way excusing or forgiving the abuse, or blaming the victim. it's just an acknowledgment of reality. we accept as fact that certain skin types are more vulnerable to skin cancer, and because this is something generally understood and accepted those with that particular skin type have the knowledge and awareness to protect themselves accordingly.

so i do not see any reason to deny that certain personality types are more vulnerable to abuse. accepting that about oneself can actually be very empowering.

i respectfully disagree with you that simply because one is an adult, they are always capable of choosing what is and is not healthy or acceptable for them. it is not my preference to be submissive with everyone or in all aspects of my life, never has been. the fact that i was never able to make those good choices for myself and only submit when i truly wished is part of that vulnerability i was speaking of before. and unfortunately those qualities are very attractive to the most dangerous and vile people among us. it is why a childhood friend and neighbor, age 6, was raped by my abuser only once or twice (leaving her mark on his face afterward, btw), but decided to keep coming at me, just a year younger, for 7 years. we were both young children, but by no means equally vulnerable. she didn't understand why i kept "letting" him. i didn't understand how she had the strength and courage to resist. and that was to be a common scenario played out throughout my life, until i developed some self-awareness and acceptance.

now that i realize i have fair skin, i have the power to protect myself with SPF 50 everyday and a parasol in the summer. or in my case specifically, a loving Master and the protective and restrictive life he provides.

 

[FurryFury]

We clearly differ in our views and experiences on this issue. I won't continue to state mine side endlessly. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think you are a valuable member of this group, in part, because your views are often, so different.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

nothing wrong with that.

 

[VelvetSin]

I'm almost certain that I saw something recently about a study that had determined that its participants who were into BDSM were no more likely to have been abused than the ones who weren't. But for the life of me, I can't remember where I saw it.

Was it the one linked in this thread?

 

[BiBunny]

Was it the one linked in this thread?

Possibly. I don't know if that one addressed the abuse aspect or not, but it's entirely possible that that's the one I'm thinking of, and I misremembered the specifics, LOL.

 

[VelvetSin]

Possibly. I don't know if that one addressed the abuse aspect or not, but it's entirely possible that that's the one I'm thinking of, and I misremembered the specifics, LOL.

No, I think you remembered right if that was the one you had in mind. The conclusion of the article was, "Our findings support the idea that BDSM is simply a sexual interest or subculture attractive to a minority, and for most participants not a pathological symptom of past abuse or difficulty with “normal” sex."

As for the discussion of a sample group, there is the Big 5 of pyls thread where personality profiles were volunteered. The Emotional Stability results given might be of some value, or there are other similar personality profiles that could be posted up for volunteer answering. It looked like a pretty broad sample group answered that one.