Discussion: Introducing Main Characters

[Varian P]

When I saw him board the train, I knew right then that I had to have him. Perhaps it was his wild-man look: the long blonde hair in need of a brushing, the five o’clock shadow that was thickening into a beard, or the restless look in his eyes. Then, again, maybe I had been reading too much Henry Miller. The Land of Fuck had been sounding better and better each night that I spent alone with my eternally limp boyfriend. Besides, Jong talked about the zipless fuck a lot lately. I’d never been to the Land, and never with a virile stranger.

The author does give an economical intro: from these few opening sentences I infer that the narrator is a fairly literate woman, with libertine attitudes but whose experience probably adheres to a pattern of serial monogamy, if the final sentence means that she's never been with a stranger. I'm not overly familiar with Jong, but that the narrator's reading her, combined with her opening line that she "had to have" the wild man, I get the impression the narrator's an nth wave feminist, and, as her use of her elbows in the next paragraph suggests, she's capable of doing what's necessary to get what she wants. She's in a relationship, and she's unsatisfied--not only with her guy, and not only immediately, libidinally; she's unsatisfied with herself, her life experience, and feels an itch to do something she's never done before.

We get less about the guy, but as much as we need. He's not her usual kind of guy, and there seems to be a bit of white collar woman meets blue collar stud thing going on here.

This is all I need to know about these characters for this kind of story. I've got her motivation for doing what she does, and I'm not surprised by his reaction because, well, he's this "wild man" with a restless look in his eyes, and he smells of motor oil, so he's obviously going to go for it.

So, yes, I think this is a good example of character introduction--the author's done what she needs to do for the sort of story she's offering. That said, she hasn't made me interested in these people in the slightest bit. If he'd accused her of assault, or things had gone awry in some embarassing way, the characters and the story would have interested me more. As it is, the story is just a quick fuck (which, I realize, is exactly what it wants to be), and the characters are exactly as compelling as they need to be for that: ie, not very.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Tina Hess is an accomplished, published writer of erotica, with her own site: In this story of about 1400 words, she's very 'tight' and economical, and obviously the 'telling' is going to have to be minimal.

Here's the url and the opening. I urge you to look at the whole thing, since I think it's quite good.

Comments on the introduction of the characters??

Land of the Zipless Fuck

http://www.tinahess.com/excerpt.html

Funny. Here's a case where the description of the charcater and the nature of the person doing the describing both turned me off. I didn't care about these people at all, and didn't want to spend time with them. Didn't read it. (Should I? Tell me it's more than I think it's going to be and I will)

I must be getting old. The heroic gonads story doesn't do it for me anymore.

--Zoot

 

[Varian P]

Didn't read it. (Should I? Tell me it's more than I think it's going to be and I will)

I must be getting old. The heroic gonads story doesn't do it for me anymore.

--Zoot

I read the entire story, and I doubt it's more than you think it's going to be. It depicts a quick fuck between strangers--the zipless fuck of the narrator's opening musings. In addition to being quick and easy (remarkably so for occurring in public), the zipless fuck is depicted as occuring in an emotional and psychological vacuum--which is perhaps inherent in the nature of the zipless fuck.

I think it's a decent example of what it is--a quick bit of porn--but you're not missing out on a compelling story.

-V

 

[dr_mabeuse]

“Fuck me,” I pled, fighting for the air to speak as I shrouded this stranger’s length in ribbons of cream.

Is pled the past tense of plead? Looks funny to me. I would have used pleaded.

I read it. I was very unsatisfied. I wanted to know what her story was, why she was like that. I don't know any women like that and I was curious.

I get the feeling of a tossed-off story, something written to put on a web site. Felt very superficial to me.

But you know, this kinds of character description seems more natural in first person, because that's how you react to a stranger: you take a quick inventory and notice the main things, the things that tell you who the person is and what they're like.

You notice she doesn't tell us his height and weight and the color of his eyes--the kinds of things you'd see on Lit--because they don't say anything about what he's like. Instead we get the long hair, the wild eyes and the incipient beard, later on the oil-stained clothes. He's blonde, because a blonde wild man is different than a dark-haired wild man. Other than that, the details are left to us. We know the guy's strong and solid by the way he acts. She doesn't have to tell us.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Is pled the past tense of plead? Looks funny to me. I would have used pleaded.

Either is grammatically correct. There are actually three acceptable forms of the simple past tense of "to plead." You can use "pleaded," "pled," or "plead."

Really it's a personal preference and style issue in cases like these. I would have used "pleaded" here as well.

****

that said, this is an excerpt, so I'm not concerned that it feels short and abrupt... there is more to this story somewhere (if we want to pay to download it, right? lol) I appreciate what she left to the imagination here... the opening description is enough and interesting and not overly done. There are some amazing phrases in here that take my breath away... her "liquid anticipation"... mmm... I appreciate the "wild man" and "Jong" references, they tell me a lot...

I am interested in the possible development of the characters... however, as it stands, in the little excerpt I have, I'm pretty disappointed... she *thinks* she's found some wild man, but really, who is in control here? The femininst longing for the masculine, unwilling to let go of her own, and by the end she's got him following her home like some little puppy... some wild man... :x

Now, if things develop, and shift... definitely interesting...
BUT I'm not interested *enough* to buy the download, that's for sure... so it's failed in its intent, at least for this reader.

 

[Pure]

Hey

some of youse guys are awfully critical.



let us try to learn from recognized and published erotic writers. post some short faves from recognized writers that *you* like.



does anything at 'cleansheets' meet your standards? I think there's a lot of fine writing. www.cleansheets.com

 

[dr_mabeuse]

that said, this is an excerpt, so I'm not concerned that it feels short and abrupt... there is more to this story somewhere (if we want to pay to download it, right? lol)

Far as I can tell this is not an excerpt but a stand-alone piece. At least, I don't see any links or any indication that there's more to the story. More importantly, it dosn't feel like part of a longer story. She didn't lave anything to hook more story onto, far as I can tell.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

some of youse guys are awfully critical.



let us try to learn from recognized and published erotic writers. post some short faves from recognized writers that *you* like.



does anything at 'cleansheets' meet your standards? I think there's a lot of fine writing. www.cleansheets.com

In general I find Clean Sheets to be a little pretentious. Like a lot of "literary" porn sites, they seem to think that overblown language and swollen metaphor make stories about doing the old in-and-out more acceptable. ("It's not porn, it's Art.")

Bit I kind of liked this: (it's from the Clean Sheets link in Pure's post above)

Taidgh was a man young enough to be lusty, attractive enough when he scrubbed clean in the postscript of a bathroom, handsome enough to be getting second glances from the Galway girls and foreign travelers that passed through the town. A few men saw, and looked long at his lean body and rounded buttocks, curved like river stones. They glanced again and chanced their luck. And they were just as likely to win, as if the waters had shown him a man then who was he to go against?

He knew when to go to town, when to seek what he saw, and when instead to seek the solitude of a corner of stone wall, back humped against the wind, hand-jerked seed splattered to the ground.

It comes it a bit high for my personal tastes--a bit too conspicuously literary, if you know what I mean--but in 2 paragraphs we get the appearance, the character, his status, the setting, and something about his sexuality (though I have no idea what this means: "And they were just as likely to win, as if the waters had shown him a man then who was he to go against?") That's a lot of doing in 2 short paragraphs.

What I like about this is the author's approach to the task of description. When we see someone on the street, or meet someone for the first time, what are we thinking? Rarely are we thinking, "Hmm, she's about 5'6" 140 pounds with 36C tits and long legs and blonde hair down to her shoulders." No. We're thinking, "Wow. She looks easy!" or "She looks like trouble" or she looks like a prude or she looks bitter or whatever. We analyze someone in terms of their character and what it might mean to us. We're not looking at appearance. We're analyzing appearance in terms of that person's effect. Apperance itself isn't that important. It's what the appearance tells us about the person.

That's why so many wanted-poster style descriptions are so corny and feel so superfluous. They are superfluous. Her tit size doesn't say anything about her character, nor does her eye color. In this one we're not told that kind of stuff. He's young enough and attractive enough, and that's all we need to know. The rest describes him in terms of his actions and the millieu he loves in.

Here's what else a good author does: In the second paragraph where we're told the guy beats off a lot, we're not just told that. We get to see him hunched against that stone wall outside in the cold wind, spilling his seed on the ground. How much more desperate and lonely does that make his masturbation seem? How much more does that tell us about this guy? That one image is worth 200 words of description and explanation.

And check out how we're already tying this guy to the land he lives on and the natural world just by use of imagery. His buttocks are "curved like river stones". He splatters his "hand-jerked seed ... onto the ground." We're getting that mystical connection between a character and forces larger than himself that's present in all good fiction, in my opinion. This isn't just some 6'2" 190-lb black-belt-in-karate with percing blue eyes. This is a guy who's of and from the land, who has weaknesses and problems and depth.

This is an author who knows her craft.

 

[Pure]

Thanks mab!

hope you don't get a case of 'swollen metaphor'!

(give us a link, please!)

here's another example for comment, more on the 'descriptive' side than the Hess excerpt:

"Deathrocker, Sex Boy, and Fuck"
by Thomas S. Roche
(8/2/00)

http://www.cleansheets.com/archive/archfiction/roche_08.02.00.shtml

[scene inside a club; people are dancing]
Deathrocker cocks her head, tosses her hair, feigning indifference.
"There's Fuck," she says.

Sex Boy's snappy retort: "Fuck?"

"Yeah, Fuck. You know."

"I thought that poser spent his time at the Gallery. Or the fucking Institute."

The Gallery is the Gallery of despair, perhaps the only club in town, maybe anywhere, with a more pretentious clientele than the Orphanage. The Institute is strictly for kids as far as Sex Boy is concerned.

"She," sneers Deathrocker. "Fuck hangs here now," she says. "She got kicked out of the Gallery. They told her never to come back. Something about a bouncer and a twenty-dollar blowjob."

"Fuckin' A, twenty dollars. That's a lot to pay for a blowjob. I thought Fuck was a he."

"She," says Deathrocker. "Look at those tits."

Look he does, oh yes. It is certainly something to behold. This is the good part, keep your hands out of your lap. Fuck wears a tight spandex dress stretched across shoulders and tits and flat belly and bulging crotch, boneframe angled and dangerous. She has knife-edged eyelashes, razorblade earrings, thick blackberry lips in an eternal pout. Bleachwhite hair scatters like Niagara Falls over her broad unblemished white shoulders. Her tits are big and silicone-firm. Her long legs stretch into heaven or hell (depending on your particular wish). The legs are unstockinged, bare, beautiful.

Fuck wears high-heeled deathrock boots, the buckles recycled from chalices used by the Pope when he had his little breakdown and said the Black Mass in public a few years ago -- you remember. No one seems to know, in the stories they tell about Fuck, whether Fuck is a he-fuck or a she-fuck. But rumor has it that under that tight spandex Fuck harbors the yin and the yang, the princely pestle and the bearded clam, the pride and the prejudice, John Thomas and Pussy Galore, both of 'em in eternal syncronized interaction.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Nah, you can have that one, Pure. Roche is trying too hard to be hip for me.

But I've got to wonder how Fuck's spandex dress can stretch across her shoulders and tits and yet we can still see that her shoulders are white and unblemished. Transparent spandex?

 

[Penelope Street]

Deathrocker, Fuck, and Sex Boy? I can't get past those names!

I've looked at cleansheets.com a few times. The writing is fine but for me the stories are too short.

I think we've plenty to learn from unpublished authors as well, and we don't have to look far. Here's a story that's garnered its share of attention, but I think it's still worth another look:

(ETA: see link in next post. Thanks, Pure)

Pausing for a moment outside the light cast by the Liberal Arts building I push power to my skin, making it flush to nearly a flesh colour. I start my lungs working. I don't want to attract attention. My normal complexion is almost bone white and bound to draw comment. Not breathing tends to raise eyebrows as well.

That done, I step out of the cool night air and into the hall of the place where I teach sophomore history; The Enlightenment, Background and Effects on 18th Century Europe. I have some familiarity with this era.

Down the hall I go, up a flight of stairs, then back toward the front of the building. I arrive at Room 203 and enter it. As always, I'm right on time.

Most of the twenty odd people that make up this class are already here. Some are attending honestly, they want to learn. The remainder is what I refer to as 'The Court'. I call it that as it seems so much like the courts I knew when I was alive.

The outer circle is hangers on. They drop in and out of the group as they drop in and out of favour of the inner circle. I don't mind them in my class. If they want to be here and aren't disruptive, I can live with it. A smile flashes across my face at that last thought.

The inner circle consists of several people vying for the interest of the social center of The Court. They pass in and out of her approval although not as often as the hangers on. One of the current members is even a student of mine.

The social center is also one of my pupils, a young woman by the name of Christy Coburn. I've rarely seen a more feminine woman. Constantly giggling and smiling, hair flipping, leaning close to exchange gossip, wearing suggestive clothes in soft colours, she is the constant focus of attention. Bright yellow natural blonde and leggy, her beauty is a finely honed instrument. My own opinion of her is that although bright enough there's too little backbone in her to be a good student. Or much of anything else for that matter.

The real power of the court, as is so often the case, not where the eye looks. The true center lies with Ms. Coburn's lover, Mandy Richardson. They think they're being secretive about it. This is a very conservative state and the university has to be careful not to offend fanatics. But Mandy and Christy's relationship is there for those who want to look.

And as always, Ms. Richardson is not here. One of the few rules I enforce, for my students, is that they arrive on time. She has never been here before me.

In fact, she has been challenging me the entire semester. Assignments are late, she's tardy. In class Mandy is always, subtly, trying to rule. She is a brilliant young woman but she seems to be unable to accept what she regards as an inferior position.

And in my briefcase is her latest challenge.

The tale, for me, is not a horror story, but an extended character study of the narrator. At first, I thought the plodding "hit the reader with a brick" style was a blunder, but in retrospect it's so perfect; a vampire would think he needed to belabor points to inferior humans, wouldn't he? Brilliant! Even little lines like As always, I'm right on time that I failed to appreciate the first time are really little character development gems. The narrator's so full of himself, just like he should be.

Here's a case where the description of the character and the nature of the person doing the describing both turned me off.

Unsympathetic characters are an interesting issue. I found Rob's vampire repulsive, but shouldn't he be? On the other hand, it certainly lessened the tension that I didn't much care what happened to him.

 

[Pure]

Rob's story, url

http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=221428

 

[TheeGoatPig]

After skimming through this topic, I'm considering changing a lot of things on my future writings. I didn't read even half of the topic, but I got a lot of ideas to not only enhance my erotic stories, but the novels I am working on right now. We'll see how much of it I retain after going to bed in a few minutes (or maybe I'll come back and read a little more tomorrow night ), but I think I'll be able to use some of it to better my work from now on.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Unsympathetic characters are an interesting issue. I found Rob's vampire repulsive, but shouldn't he be? On the other hand, it certainly lessened the tension that I didn't much care what happened to him.

Did you really? I found the fact that he was trying to repress his bloody desires so as to fit in with humans very appealing, and I think that was the key to his character. He's like the master criminal who works for the good guys now, and what kept me reading was the anticipation of what was going to happen when he used all those supernatural powers to get back at the bad guys.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Far as I can tell this is not an excerpt but a stand-alone piece. At least, I don't see any links or any indication that there's more to the story. More importantly, it dosn't feel like part of a longer story. She didn't lave anything to hook more story onto, far as I can tell.

Doc, I assumed it was because of the "excerpt" in the tagline there...

http://www.tinahess.com/excerpt.htm

and that it said it was an excerpt of "Shades"... assumed that was a novel, but apparently it's short stories... so I henceforth rescind my concern (or non-concern!) about this just being an excerpt...

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I found Rob's vampire repulsive, but shouldn't he be?

I don't think that repulsive and sympathetic are mutually exclusive... I think a character can be repulsive AND sympathetic at the same time... I found this particular character very sympathetic actually... this line: "I don't like being a monster" says it all. There is actually a great tenderness in this character, a humanness not displayed even in the humans... I cared very deeply what happened to him... I used to read vampire fiction, back before it got to be so fashionable, but I stopped when characters started all feeling the same to me... when I read this story, and connected with this character, it actually made me want to pick up another piece of vampire fiction again... and that's saying a lot.

One of my characters, Jay from "Advent Calendar" is pretty damned repulsive in a lot of ways... but he somehow gets away with being a pretty strangely sympathetic main character...

I think a sympathic character is someone whose motivations readers can understand and whose feelings they can pretty comfortably share. An unsympathetic character is someone whose motivations are more suspect and (more importantly, at least to me) whose feelings make us uncomfortable, someone we just can't relate to. I don't feel like, for me, Rob's vampire falls into an unsympathetic realm. Even if something is repulsive to me (the idea of sucking blood from someone, case in point!) if I can understand and feel for and with the character, it makes him more sympathetic to me...

 

[Penelope Street]

Did you really? I found the fact that he was trying to repress his bloody desires so as to fit in with humans very appealing, and I think that was the key to his character. He's like the master criminal who works for the good guys now, and what kept me reading was the anticipation of what was going to happen when he used all those supernatural powers to get back at the bad guys.

Yeah, he's repulsive. He's dangerous and disgusting and I don't want to be anywhere near him. That pretty much defines repulsive. Even if he wasn't a menace, he's so arrogant and obnoxious that I doubt I could stand to be in the same room as him for more than five minutes. Sure, he paid a little lip service to repressing his desires, but I have my doubts it's anything more than a ruse.

There is a light touch on my shoulder, a young woman says, "Mister..."

And my teeth are sunk in her neck. I shiver with pleasure as the savoury liquid fills my mouth and runs down my throat. Her fists pound on my back and her legs kick. I like it. Her fear gives the blood a sweeter savour.

I feed, and feed, and feed. And suddenly the monster lets go, sated and satisfied. I pull my head away from her throat. Our eyes meet, she gives a puzzled look and she's gone. Her last breath sighs forth and she slumps in my grip.

After this, he spends a couple paragraphs in apparent lament and that's the last we hear of it. Does he have a nightmare about her or his other victims? Does he even think about her the next day, wonder who misses her? Does he really care?

I don't think so. It's kinda like, "Oops. Killed another human. Bummer. Hate it when that happens, but at least she tasted good. Looks like I'll need to hide another body so my brethren and I can go about our business. Good thing I know just the place. If I hurry I can probably catch the end of the Laker's game."

I don't think that repulsive and sympathetic are mutually exclusive... I think a character can be repulsive AND sympathetic at the same time... I found this particular character very sympathetic actually... this line: "I don't like being a monster" says it all.
...
I think a sympathic character is someone whose motivations readers can understand and whose feelings they can pretty comfortably share.

I absolutely agree, repulsive and sympathetic are not mutually exclusive. I also agree with your ideas on what makes a sympathetic character. Part of the difference in our reaction may be in what feelings we're willing to share, but my intuition says the major reason we have such different reactions is that we're each envisioning a different character.

Rob's vampire is so complex that I don't find it any great surprise he generates a range of reactions- and interpretations. I suspect this is what makes him sympathetic so some; they're willing to believe him when he says he hates being a monster. Not me; I think, deep inside, he likes who he is.

Do you believe he'd change back into a human if he could? For a vampire, becoming a mortal would practically be committing suicide, right? Well, that's something he can do and it would keep him from killing again, but I never imagine he's even considered that option. Better yet, why not go to channel four and warn mankind not only about himself, but about all the other vampires? "Undead in our midst! Film at eleven!" Of course, his ilk would kill him for it, but he'd have done his best. He has some options, not pretty options true, but options.

What does he do instead? Run away.

To me, all this is perfect for a vampire. The revelation of his character is the highlight of the story. Did any of us even stop to wonder if he was real? He's not, of course, but I loathe him just the same. That's what makes him such a great character; mo matter how we each interpreted him, he generated emotion, and interest. What more can one ask of a fictional being?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

he hates being a monster..... I think, deep inside, he likes who he is.

I think both are true... which is what creates the paradox and the tension and makes any vampire character caught here intriguing... it mirrors our own human shadows... we have plenty residing there, places where we are monsters, and part of us likes being that monsterous... would we admit it in the daylight? Would any of us walk into our own version of the sun to expose those monsterous traits? or would we rather walk the earth as the undead?

so we say "I hate being a monster"... and yet, we continue to do monsterous things, and we lament... it's a very human trait, which is what makes this vampire interesting...

and you're right, love him or loathe him, he lives and breathes as a character... of course, as a vampire, not so much