Discussion: Rumple Foreskin, 2-06-05; SDC main queue

[Boxlicker101]

Hi, Rumps

This was an interesting story and I like it that the heart of it was told as kind of a flash-back. PS said something about not mentioning that Ann was Black. I have to say it was important to mention that because that was what made the story. The teacher having the name "Pervis" was cute because of the similarity to "Pervert". I do have a few comments otherwise:

This sounds like it belongs in non-consent. I wouldn’t call it non-erotic and what happened to Ann was certainly non-consent.

Ann refers to “the summer of ‘70”. If that was the current year, wouldn’t she refer to it as “all summer” or other words to that effect?

Since the sex occurred when Ann was a senior in high school, you should make some reference to her being 18 years old. Perhaps when describing the fate of Mr. Pervis, make the comment "I was 18 then so he didn't get arrested but..."Otherwise it might not get through.

Ann said “. Who knows, if I had pulled that stunt earlier in the year, I might have been homecoming queen.” Homecoming would be early in the year, probably in October, before Mr Pervis came into the story. “Prom Queen” might work better.

 

[Black Tulip]

[THREADJACK]

Ok, that's it. I've had enough!
Can somebody please explain what homecoming queen is all about?



[/THREADJACK]

 

[msboy8]

[THREADJACK]

Ok, that's it. I've had enough!
Can somebody please explain what homecoming queen is all about?



[/THREADJACK]

I think it was an award that had somehting to do with cock-sucking in High School. Maybe you can return the favor and tell me what a "Threadjack" is?

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think it was an award that had somehting to do with cock-sucking in High School. Maybe you can return the favor and tell me what a "Threadjack" is?

When I was a callow youth in high school, which was long before 1970, every fall, the football team would start their season, have an away game and then have a home game sometime in there, usually in October. This home game was referred to as "The Homecoming Game" and the dance that followed was a major social event. Where I went to school, the football players would elect the king, who would then choose four players as his his court and the queen. The four chosen members of the court would each choose an escort, and those ten persons would make up the homecoming court. The queen didn't have to be particularly popular, she just had to attract the elected king.

Other high schools may use a different selection method.

 

[Black Tulip]

Thank you Box. It had been pestering me for years but I always skipped the reference in any book situated in the USA. I had the impression it had something to do with spring, but never bothered to properly investigate.



MSBoy,

A threadjack is derailing a thread with a completely different topic. A very common occurrence in the AH.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

MS,

Threadjack involves making a post that leads discussion away from the original topic--a variation of the term, "highjack." It's kind of an internet version of looseness of association. Some folks do it out of meanness (not BT, of course) but most of the time it works something like this. This thread's original topic was crits of a story that mentions Homecoming Queen, a concept our Dutch treat isn't familiar with, she asks for enlightenment, Box responds and in so doing, mentions football, someone else comes in and says something about college's also having this activity, someone else the recalls a great homecoming game they watched, etc, etc.

BT & Box,

Homecoming varies from school to school. I'd never heard of one exactly like the those held at Boxlicker's school. Most of the one's I'm familiar with are an excuse for graduates of a school to "come home" to meet old friends. There are often special events, parades, dances, etc. Schools with football teams will usually crown the homecoming queen (and often a king as well) during half-time ceremonies.

Universities love these because it helps to keep alumni connected with the school which encourages their giving the school money. High schools use them for that and as a means to build school pride in the student body. These celebrations usually involve electing one student as "Homecoming Queen." Even more than being a cheerleader, being Homecoming Queen is considered a high status deal by many folks.

Questions?

Rumple Foreskin

 

[msboy8]

MSBoy,

A threadjack is derailing a thread with a completely different topic. A very common occurrence in the AH.

Oh my goodness, I didn't realize you had to announce it and there was a pecial term for it. haha

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Greetings.

At least a thousand thanks to everyone who helped turn ANN'S STORY into a something almost resembling, but not quite, an acceptable Lit story. The version you see now (3/3/5) reflects changes I've made in reponse to suggestions from the SDC.

One change sharp-eyed folks may notice is the name change. I finally decided to submit the story as Non-Consent, primarily because I'd never submitted a story in that category. The old title, Ann's Story, seemed a little prosaic for that category. So I re-christened it, SCHOLARSHIP SEX.

In an attempt to show more coercion, I added this sentence: "You mean having to ball Mr. Perkins? If you don't count not being able to sleep the night before, then feeling sick that morning and dirty afterwards; no, not really.

and this one: "Anyway, he'd fool around for ages, you know, doing the big C and all that shit, before getting down to the dirty deed. I'd close my eyes and try to shut my mind off, or pretend I was in a porno flick. Some days it almost worked.

Other tweaks include changing the much maligned "Pervis" to "Perkins."

Anyone reading this revised edition is encouraged to add their thoughts to those already poste. I can use all the help the SDC can provide.

Rumple

 

[Black Tulip]

Rumple,

Forgive me for being dimwitted, but where can I find your new version?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Rumple,

Forgive me for being dimwitted, but where can I find your new version?

BT,

The new version is the one currently posted. I used EDIT to replace the original version. And no, you're not a dimwit. My explanation wasn't clear enough.

Rumple

 

[Pure]

Hi Rumple,
I like the new version a lot, and it coheres much better. On one small point: I do question why a young woman of vaguely our era would say she did 'the dirty deed', referring to her early sexual encounters. Perhaps she is being humorous?

Overall, a fine read. Well told.

NOTE on category. 'Non consent' doesn't seem a hundred percent right, but the laws are funny. I'm not sure of you've heard of this, but the idea of forced or coerced sex is sometimes unclear (i.e., as falling under a rape/sexual assault law). There was actually a case of a teacher or principal offering improved grades for sex (an offer taken up, I believe). The court --of that particular state, applying its then current laws--ruled it was not rape, i.e., not truly 'forced sex'. One issue is, is the victim going to be in a worse *than initial* position if she does not comply. If not, it's an exchange, not coerced or forced sex. An example would be an actress applying for a lead role, and whom the director lets know that she'll have it, if she'll 'do' him. Her refusal does not put her in a worse position (i.e., no role) than before. IOW, the issue is that she's offered a gain for sex (like a pro, as it were), rather than threatened with some harm.

In the present story, that matter is left a bit unclear. IF we assume Mr. Perkins was just extremely exacting, but not unfair, then the girl was not raped ('forced'). (i.e., in turning down the offer, she would have more or less gotten a 'deserved' grade.) If we assume she was truly outstanding and was being threatened with an undeserved 'B' that would mar her record, that would be forced sex (i.e., illegal). An interesting wrinkle is that in the former case, the girl is bartering sex or even whoring, which might account for her lingering shame (from her perspective).



----
On Homecoming Queen.
My memories, from HS are similar to Box's, more than Rumps, since I don't know the phenomenon at colleges. (There were no women at my college.)

The difference is that at my HS, the homecoming queen is popularly selected, as the pride and beauty of the school. At to the 'king', I believe he was OF the football team, but not necessarily its captain, but maybe its handsomest specimen.

It was, as Rumps said, an excuse for a big social event and for the elite** to parade themselves. At my HS, there were not many alum's that ever turned up to HS events. They'd moved on.

----
**As is well known, at most American high schools, the 'elite', according to themselves and most others, are the football players and their chosen mates; late on, as high school ends,and it's clear what colleges if any, people are headed for, there is some tempering of this rule. I.e., the captain of the football team who has a lowly destination at East Arkansas Agricultural College, loses status, compared to a less stellar player, whose all round accomplishments have gotten him into a top university.

 

[Black Tulip]

Thanks a million, Pure.

The American school system is still foggy as to the social undercurrents.
It truly is a totally different culture in that respect.

 

[oOScarletWingsOo]

There were some humorous parts in here. I’m not a fan of the style you’ve used here – where one character narrates a story to another. Perhaps I could have liked to “see” more reaction from her friend as the story unfolded along with some level of reaction from the memory of the events by the main character.

Upon finishing it I’m wondering if this was meant to be erotic or was it meant to be SOS (Sex on the Side). If it’s SOS I suppose it works but if it’s meant to be erotic I guess I’m not getting it.

I’m having difficulty understanding the main character. I’m unsure about her stance on what happened to her. Is she viewing it as something that just happened to her as a means to an end and hated every moment of it (if so why the humor during the recount) or did she at some level enjoy the encounters (then it’s not a without consent story to me).

I’ve got an issue with Ann’s dialogue. It doesn’t “jive” to my ears. We’ve got her using words like “virtue”:
“Cindy couldn’t think of anything to say and just shook her head in sympathy as Ann continued. "However, I should point out in defense of my virtue …”

And we’ve got her saying things like “Right on, child”

It just doesn’t fit to me. Maybe there some way for you to pickup more slang and a more urban tone in her dialogue. The other way for you to correct this issue for me would be for you to do away with the “right on, child” type stuff. You’ve already described her race so that can hold true without the need for urban/street phrases. Maybe accomplish your characterization by giving Ann a more ethic-sounding name?

This part doesn’t read true to me:

Cindy couldn’t think of anything to say and just shook her head in sympathy as Ann continued. "However, I should point out in defense of my virtue that I did manage to negotiate my visits down to only once every other week. I mean, I might be cheap and go down for grades, but I'm not easy.”

After another silence, Cindy asked, "Was it terrible?"

Without knowing Cindy’s sexual experience at this point I find it hard to swallow that her only response would be “was it terrible”. I would think that there should be more disbelief? Shock? And horror – as well as concern for her friend of course but something isn’t true about Cindy’s reaction here.

I don’t think that you’ve really established just what level of friendship these two young women have. You have to be a really, really good friend I think for one to disclose that they whored themselves out for a grade.

Ann grinned at a startled look on Cindy's face. "That's right, child, he even performed the big "C" on me. That's cunnilingus not cancer, in case you haven't figured it out.

Did people refer to it as the “big ‘C’” in the 70’s? Either way, not really funny if that’s how it was meant.

Ann got up, finished off the bottle of apple wine, stuffed it under some papers in the overflowing wastepaper basket, and sat back down. "Anyway, every other Saturday, I'd get up early, make myself pretty, then head over to the Perkins Passion Pad, home of Perkins the Pervert.

What’s the importance of her stuffing the bottle under papers in the trash? I only ask because you’ve draw attention to it by having her get up in the middle of the conversation.

Why would she take the trouble of dolling herself up if she doesn’t like having to go to the meetings?

I'd get under the sheets, satin of course, while he undressed.

Why of course? Is that something that she expected from a pervert who sleeps with teenage girls? Is that something that she expected from sleeping with an older man? It's not clearly defined sarcasm to me.

"Afterward, he'd pull out some grass and we'd lay there in bed and blow a joint or two. That was the best part of the whole day, laying there talking and smoking dope. He was a pretty smart dude, for a teacher.”

Seems to me that she would use the dope as a means to escape rather than having to visualize being, of all things, in a porno.

a little bottle of cognac as a present and made sure there was a double slug of it in every cup of coffee he drank. Then I proceeded to lay some serious loving on that sorry-assed honky

It’s strange timing for her to show her distaste for him by using a racial slur here.

I hope that you've gotten this to the point where you are happen with it.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

oOScarletWingsOo,

Many thanks for taking the time to read my epic and for sharing your thoughts. The ones about not showing enough reaction was echoed by an editor a Chick Flicks.

As for things like vocabulary and dialogue, I'll just have to ask you to give the story the benefit of a little more "suspension of disbelief." All I can tell you is I lived in NYC at the time, there was an Ann, I knew her, that was her speech pattern, the incident did happen, and I married her friend.

That's not to say you're reactions weren't valid. Every reader's reaction is valid and important. It's clear I failed to effectively communicate Ann's anger at herself for what she did and her hatred of the man who was the catalyst. Maybe next time I'll come a little closer to getting it right.

Thanks again for the feedback. Hope to see you around the SDC and the Author's Hangout.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[oOScarletWingsOo]

Thanks for adding my oO--Oo's



Glad to give my oh so valuable 2 cents.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Thanks for adding my oO--Oo's



Glad to give my oh so valuable 2 cents.

Gotta include dem oO's, not to mention the Oo's.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[oOScarletWingsOo]

Certainly.

What's my screen name without them?

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Certainly.

What's my screen name without them?

Uh, you know, like maybe, ScarletWings?

Rumple Foreskin

 

[oOScarletWingsOo]

Smarty pants.