Do you forgive your sub?

[LWulf]

I like when my intuition leads me to correctly guessing what I think someone means. I'll snoopy happy dance later...

It's a tough call.
First, yes, it's wrong to "check up" on a person, it shows lack of trust and speaks of a dissolving relationship. Some think it is stupidity to trust blindly. Parents feel justified thus when they go through their kids things to see if they are doing drugs. I'd rather not get into that tangent and focus instead on what you found.

Is it wrong to harmlessly flirt? You feel betrayed but have you actually been? In the flesh, hopefully not. However, some feel the potential to go beyond that is very plausible, and therefore suspicions are valid.

I had an online romance a time or two and felt I was honest with my intended. Did I "flirt" with others, yes. I have been told I flirt outrageously in real life. I look at it as just being friendly and laughing and joking with people. I never have flirted sexually in real life (without intent). On line, meh, probably. I don't equate online to being anything close to real anymore so it becomes pointless doing it. Sexually speaking, it does nothing for me, except make me laugh.

It's a slippery slope that I am suddenly feeling I can't answer being I have been outside a real relationship for too long...

It reminds me of old arguments I had with previous lovers. Does looking at someone express interest? I like to look at women. Been doing it for a long time. As far as that goes, it's a habit. Perhaps a bad one. Does a look imply intent? Middle Easterners would answer "yes" which is why their women are buried under Burqas. Remove any temptation from sight and you have eliminated or significantly reduced the possibility of intent. Where does "evil" start, in the object of your affection or in your own mind? I've had conversations with women that I thought was just joking around with a bud, to then be brought in front of a manager saying I was being sexually forward with a coworker.
"EXCUSE ME?!?"

Seriously, sometimes I think people have creative minds that they see what they want to see. I never talked in any way sexually with them and supposedly all men undress all women. (Yeah! Sure, right, NEXT!)
I'm subtle like a brick when I (intentionally) flirt (sexually).
The problem is I was born a "pretty boy" and therefore any time I try to be friendly with anybody (especially women though guys think the same thing too sometimes, sadly), it's looked on as being sexual. I think women can relate to this as anytime they randomly start talking to a guy in any fashion "shooting the breeze", the guy jumps to the conclusion "OMG she likes me!"

I'm going off on a tirade so I'll end it there, even though I think it is all related; It's what someone thinks opposed to what someone does and is someone at fault when someone else thinks so.

Maybe someone else can finish answering this...

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

I love him and want to make him happy and would do anything to please him and wish the monogamy thing was not such an issue for me, but it is.

This idea that we can make someone happy is such a beautiful idea, but not all that realistic. Of course we want to see the ones we love happy, but it is not our job to "make" them. That said, from a different angle if your happiness relies on making someone happy, you are sort of trapping yourself in an impossible scenario because how can you give what you do not have?

You are the only one you truly have to live with the rest of your life. You are the one truly responsible for your own happiness. It's not selfish to operate from those priorities, often it is critical to fuel your heart tank which allows things like generosity, kindness, and gratitude. Turns out that these are actually how I seem to measure my own happiness these days.

One of my favorite movies is Harold and Maude. In it he is pleading with her that he doesn't want her to die because he loves her. Her response, "that is so wonderful Harold, now go love some more!"

I wish you the best no matter what you choose, I just hope your choices honor you and your happiness.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Perhaps if you view the expression of the emotions to your Dom as something that causes him pain, it will be easier for you to keep the emotions in check when they arise. Your emotions may be causing your Dom to be angry because of the way that you’re choosing to express them. If you express jealousy toward him, it probably feels like an attack on his character or his ability to earn your trust. Instead of focusing solely on how these emotions are causing YOU to feel, perhaps focusing on how they cause HIM to feel will help you in managing them.


This makes sense to me. Here is the issue. We have been in what I would consider a long term committed relationship and I have asked him if he wanted a monagamus relationship to which he agreed. My issue is with trust so I occasionally do the bad thing like look at the messages on his phone or Facebook when he is in the other room and I have found sexually explicit conversations between he and other woman. It hurts and I feel betrayed and lied too, however I was wrong to look but I don't think with the rational part of my brain when I am being emotional ha ha. So then I want to be mad can't tell him why and start down the path that if he can do it so can I. Am I being to traditional and unrealistic to want to be his everything? I feel betrayed And threatened and can't figure out how to get past it

This has nothing to do with being traditional or unrealistic and it has nothing to do with BDSM.
If the two of you have decided what is ok and not and he ignores that, he is going behind your back.
So did you when you checked his personal messages, which makes it hard for you to handle now.
Bottom line is that you need to handle it like in any other relationship. There is no special set of D/s rules for this.

 

[Primalex]

We have been in what I would consider a long term committed relationship and I have asked him if he wanted a monagamus relationship to which he agreed. My issue is with trust so I occasionally do the bad thing like look at the messages on his phone or Facebook when he is in the other room and I have found sexually explicit conversations between he and other woman.

Humans bend always the rules the way it's comfortable.


If a woman is sexting, she is just "flirting intensely".
If a man is sexting, he sees himself still as monogamous, he is just masturbating and masturbation is legal.


So...you've made rules and you've learned by now that there are different interpretations. Sexting with people and masturbating is legal. So you can choose whether this is okay for you (and of course have therefore the right to do this, too) or not.

If you decide that this is not okay for you and you want him to stop, then you should clarify this. Not the "I know you are sexting" approach, but the "Do you think it's cheating when thing just happen online and how do we want to deal with this in our relationship?"


And regarding your attempts to control the relationship:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcWbZUgymkw

 

[isabellepain]

Humans bend always the rules the way it's comfortable.


If a woman is sexting, she is just "flirting intensely".
If a man is sexting, he sees himself still as monogamous, he is just masturbating and masturbation is legal.


So...you've made rules and you've learned by now that there are different interpretations. Sexting with people and masturbating is legal. So you can choose whether this is okay for you (and of course have therefore the right to do this, too) or not.

If you decide that this is not okay for you and you want him to stop, then you should clarify this. Not the "I know you are sexting" approach, but the "Do you think it's cheating when thing just happen online and how do we want to deal with this in our relationship?"


And regarding your attempts to control the relationship:6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcWbZUgymkw

maybr thats the answer I eill just do it too!

 

[IrisAlthea]

Humans bend always the rules the way it's comfortable.


If a woman is sexting, she is just "flirting intensely".
If a man is sexting, he sees himself still as monogamous, he is just masturbating and masturbation is legal.


So...you've made rules and you've learned by now that there are different interpretations. Sexting with people and masturbating is legal. So you can choose whether this is okay for you (and of course have therefore the right to do this, too) or not.

If you decide that this is not okay for you and you want him to stop, then you should clarify this. Not the "I know you are sexting" approach, but the "Do you think it's cheating when thing just happen online and how do we want to deal with this in our relationship?"


And regarding your attempts to control the relationship:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcWbZUgymkw

maybr thats the answer I eill just do it too!

You totally missed the bolded part, right?

 

[isabellepain]

You totally missed the bolded part, right?

No I didn't miss it I am just saying it is not the only alternative that maybe Stella is correct and if it is something I choose to participate in as well the. I won't feel so betrayed. Make sense ?

 

[MeekMe]

No I didn't miss it I am just saying it is not the only alternative that maybe Stella is correct and if it is something I choose to participate in as well the. I won't feel so betrayed. Make sense ?

What you're saying is, he's cheating so I will, too. What they're getting at is you should talk and both come to a compromise if it's possible. There is more than one way to conduct a relationship. With consent, an open relationship can be possible and for the parties involved very rewarding. It requires good communication and confidence between partners.

Also, he may believe he isn't cheating because we all seem to have different opinions in that. Talking to him about it could clear up a misunderstanding.

 

[IrisAlthea]

No I didn't miss it I am just saying it is not the only alternative that maybe Stella is correct and if it is something I choose to participate in as well the. I won't feel so betrayed. Make sense ?

This is still a maybe. You don't know until you talk to him.

If you are both open about what you can and can't it might mean that you find that the two of you are not compatible. On the other hand it can mean that you find common ground and make it work for both of you.

Guessing what he thinks and feels and hiding what you think and feel is probably going to be as effective as cleaning house in the dark and just as likely to get you hurt or make you damage something.

 

[isabellepain]

This is still a maybe. You don't know until you talk to him.

If you are both open about what you can and can't it might mean that you find that the two of you are not compatible. On the other hand it can mean that you find common ground and make it work for both of you.

Guessing what he thinks and feels and hiding what you think and feel is probably going to be as effective as cleaning house in the dark and just as likely to get you hurt or make you damage something.

I agree 100 percent great advice. I guess I am worried to find out we are not compatible. This has been a very intense dynamic for me as I am sure others may have experienced following their first. I almost feel addicted to him like a drug addict would crave their drug. Is there a rehab for that? Ha ha

 

[All_4_Love]

I am sure that is a lot of my personality. 1. Why am I not enough? 2. He is just going to lose interest and move on if he is not getting his needs met. What a mess!

Isabelle, first off, this is not a matter of you being enough for him. It's about him and his sexuality. If he has no preference for monogamy, so be it. But to see that as a reflection of you not being good enough is absurd. It's his choice. Nothing you can do or not do is going to change that.

Unfortunately, you making an exception for that preference and still being a part of a poly relationship with him seems a little out of the realm of possibilities now, of course, because trust has been broken. I can't speak from experience, but I can only imagine that the trust, the sub's ability to believe with 100% certainty that she was loved, and the Dom's ability to always make her first priority would be absolutely paramount to a poly relationship. Again, I don't know, just what seems to make sense to me.

I would really do some thinking about yourself and your desires. Yes, now I'm saying take the focus off of him because the situation isn't what I thought it to be at first. I would back way up right now and ask yourself something... What about the fact that you felt the need to look in his phone or messages to check up on him to begin with? That's indicative of a serious issue that was there long before you found out there were other women.

Not to sound harsh on you, lady. I'm on your side

 

[isabellepain]

Well first let me say you are correct my trust issues are baggage from the past and certainly due to not ever having been in a relationship where I was. It cheated on or lied to. Who knows maybe a male really just can't do it ha ha. So they are my issues. He has never asked for any type of poly or open relationship. When I asked specifically he always said no so when I found what I should t have been looking for it just through me for a loop. I am just trying to work through if I need to change my way of thinking, ignore it and leave it be, or take a if you can't beat me join them approach.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I agree 100 percent great advice. I guess I am worried to find out we are not compatible. This has been a very intense dynamic for me as I am sure others may have experienced following their first. I almost feel addicted to him like a drug addict would crave their drug. Is there a rehab for that? Ha ha

I get that but finding out now beats finding out years down the road.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well first let me say you are correct my trust issues are baggage from the past and certainly due to not ever having been in a relationship where I was. It cheated on or lied to. Who knows maybe a male really just can't do it ha ha. So they are my issues. He has never asked for any type of poly or open relationship. When I asked specifically he always said no so when I found what I should t have been looking for it just through me for a loop. I am just trying to work through if I need to change my way of thinking, ignore it and leave it be, or take a if you can't beat me join them approach.

People rarely ask about the possibility of polyamory, because they rarely think it's on the table, and because they tell themselves that its a sin or something, that they shouldn't want. When they do anyways, they look for excuses and rationales and workarounds and then we get cheating.

Speaking entirely for myself, I think most of us would be happier if we are able to change our way of thinking. This does not mean change your inner nature-- it means taking a closer look at what jealousy is, and deciding for yourself if you really need that keep that shit around.

Then you can decide if you really want to join em or not.


By the way, there are other ways to cheat in a marriage. Although my ex and I are still besties, I left him because he could not be honest about the money he was spending.

 

[All_4_Love]

It's going to be a tough road no matter which way you choose. If you ever want to PM me, I would be happy to extend my friendship and help you as best as I can. I wish you the very best of luck.

By the way, this is beautiful...

This idea that we can make someone happy is such a beautiful idea, but not all that realistic. Of course we want to see the ones we love happy, but it is not our job to "make" them. That said, from a different angle if your happiness relies on making someone happy, you are sort of trapping yourself in an impossible scenario because how can you give what you do not have?

You are the only one you truly have to live with the rest of your life. You are the one truly responsible for your own happiness. It's not selfish to operate from those priorities, often it is critical to fuel your heart tank which allows things like generosity, kindness, and gratitude. Turns out that these are actually how I seem to measure my own happiness these days.

One of my favorite movies is Harold and Maude. In it he is pleading with her that he doesn't want her to die because he loves her. Her response, "that is so wonderful Harold, now go love some more!"

I wish you the best no matter what you choose, I just hope your choices honor you and your happiness.

Love, compassion, and kindness is in the air, and in Cali

 

[LWulf]

This idea that we can make someone happy is such a beautiful idea, but not all that realistic. Of course we want to see the ones we love happy, but it is not our job to "make" them. That said, from a different angle if your happiness relies on making someone happy, you are sort of trapping yourself in an impossible scenario because how can you give what you do not have?

You are the only one you truly have to live with the rest of your life. You are the one truly responsible for your own happiness. It's not selfish to operate from those priorities, often it is critical to fuel your heart tank which allows things like generosity, kindness, and gratitude. Turns out that these are actually how I seem to measure my own happiness these days.

One of my favorite movies is Harold and Maude. In it he is pleading with her that he doesn't want her to die because he loves her. Her response, "that is so wonderful Harold, now go love some more!"

I wish you the best no matter what you choose, I just hope your choices honor you and your happiness.

I agree with this in thought, though I am of the harsher bent. I don't mind and understand a person not forgiving something done wrong. Are we toddlers who need diapers to make sure we don't have accidents?

I have EARNED my mistakes in life. It is not up to someone else to forgive me or not to "make me feel better"; it is up to me to fix it or to live with the guilt. By living with my mistakes, I learn not to repeat them.
If you waited for someone to be at death's door to ask for forgiveness or make amends for wrongs you have done, then you have a) waited too long, and b) undoubtedly looking for an easy way to resolve making amends.
"Oh, they are dead and forgave me, so I don't have to worry about fixing that mistake."

The same for if you wait until you are at death's door to ask for forgiveness.

 

[isabellepain]

I get it! I agree with everything each of you are saying, my problem is trying to fugure out ehat to do....I wish I had never looked!

 

[isabellepain]

And I swear I sm going to buy a laptop just so everyone knows i really can spell! Damn keyboard

 

[All_4_Love]

I have EARNED my mistakes in life. It is not up to someone else to forgive me or not to "make me feel better"; it is up to me to fix it or to live with the guilt. By living with my mistakes, I learn not to repeat them.

I'm not sure what you're addressing here. Just specifically waiting until someone is dying to ask for forgiveness? It sounds like there is more to what you're saying than that.

Nevertheless, There is another side to forgiveness. Sometimes, asking for another's forgiveness may not be an option. In truth, it doesn't matter whether they have forgiven us. We have all heard the adage that we must forgive ourselves and move on. In my opinion, living with the guilt can't be an option because it will tear us apart inside and make us unhappy.

This echoes what Curious said here:
This idea that we can make someone happy is such a beautiful idea, but not all that realistic. Of course we want to see the ones we love happy, but it is not our job to "make" them. That said, from a different angle if your happiness relies on making someone happy, you are sort of trapping yourself in an impossible scenario because how can you give what you do not have?

It's the same with forgiveness.

 

[isabellepain]

Well we had our discussion last night, although he made sure I was sitting in a very submissive position at his feet go figure! Very clearly stated he would never cheat and went so far as to offer to stop if it was causing issues, then a funny thing happened, I said No! I think suddenly received it as a form of play...masturbation if you will. So for today all is good in my world of chaotic thoughts and the omg run away screams are quiet in my head! Ha ha

Wouldnt even let me bring toys! I think he knows they are my emotional block sometimes...dont have to feel as mutch. He said I would be punished for telling him to go away, but it was only a couple of swats

Truth is I need him like the air I breathe and I think we are all constantly evolving and growing. I am certain I will continue and for now...well I guess it is a world of online toys

But it got me wondering how many people outthere maintain monagomous relationships while maintaining online relationships? Is it common?

p.s Lwulf...I was very careful to watch those a's and s's

Thanks to all for the sincere analysis and advice!

Edit...still apparently cant type on this damn touch keyboard!

 

[Primalex]

Edit...still apparently cant type on this damn touch keyboard!

Well, pretty please get the laptop if you keep hanging around.

 

[isabellepain]

Well, pretty please get the laptop if you keep hanging around.

Ok that was just mean