experienced author needs an editor.

[soflabbwlvr]

You have your reasoning flipped. The primary reason is that it doesn't make economic sense to squeeze a lemon with no juice in it.

That is precisely what I said.

And, again, if the owners of this site actually have legal counsel who know anything about the publishing industry, I'll eat my shorts. That too is wishful thinking. Their failure to keep actionable material off this site screams of their ignorance of copyright law.

"Actionable?" An element of any action is damages. Other than the nominal statutory damages, a plaintiff would have a very difficult time proving actual economic damages.

As to whether they have qualified counsel, that is something neither you nor I can possibly verify, nor will anyone ever know unless and until they becomed involved in litigation.

Soflabbwlvr,

I'm sure you'll appreciate that I was not citing wiki as authority.

Absolutely. I mentioned that for the benefit of anyone else who may read this thread and want to base an argument on a wikipedia entry.

*And it's Handcuffgirl, not elfin, who's playing the smutty fanfic game.

Actually, she was predicting dire consequences if handcuffgirl continues to publish fanfic. It was her post that I was responding to.

And I'm not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but obscenity can mean more than an injunction. Knowingly distributing obscenity is a class D felony in New York, for example, and punishable by 1-7 years in prison. So it stands to reason that Laurel and Manu are likely to be watching obscenity a bit more closely and their choices re: content make sense because their best strategy would be to argue for free speech protection under the test from Miller v. California. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be the attorney who had to stand up in front of a judge to argue that kiddie or critter porn survives as protected speech under the Miller test.

Of course, that raises all sorts of jurisdictional problems. Where is lit. located? Where is the hosting ISP? Does the state of New York have jurisdiction over the entire worldwide web?

If it is a scienter offense, is it necessary that the site owners know the community standards of New York?

None of this makes much of a difference to handcuffgirl's situation.

And the point of this exercise, for me at any rate, was not to instill panic. It was to educate on why there is, in fact, something wrong with writing smutty fanfic and to point out some of the potential consequences of getting caught monkeying with someone else's intellectual property. You know, doing that whole "counseling" thing?

And yes, I'd like some case cites too so it seems one of us ought to find an ambitious first-year associate to dump this little research project onto. Now, if I could just find a non-suspicious way to dole out that assignment.

To make it really interesting, you should write a story about it. A pair of internet webmasters and an aspiring author come to see you after recieving a cease and desist letter from Stephenie Meyer's publisher...

I think you all need to start quaffing gin.

It's not Friday yet. Tonight is a scotch night.

 

[sr71plt]

As to whether they have qualified counsel, that is something neither you nor I can possibly verify, nor will anyone ever know unless and until they becomed involved in litigation.

That's just the rub. I have verified it to my satisfaction. If they had adequate counsel and actually consulted them they would understand their vulnerability on permitting copyrighted material to be reposted in large chunks on this forum. (In fact, if they had any appreciation for writers on a story site, they'd pull down all of this stuff without the need for a legal opinion). But, although they have a mechanism for reporting copyright violations, they don't carry through and pull the material off the site and make clear it should not be posted here.

They really don't want to expend any attention on their forum at all. If they have functional legal counsel, they would have been told that this isn't something they can just decide they don't want to do and be on the safe side of the law.

This isn't in any sort of legal uncertainty land. The sort of copyright violation going on on this forum daily is well covered in legal precedent. Any lawyer with a degree would know this.

And a porn site is always vulnerable to someone looking for an excuse to pull them down.

Ipso facto, it doesn't take a genius to verify that they either have no legal counsel, or the legal counsel they have is a dunce on publication law, or they don't consult the legal counsel they have.

May not be verified for you; it's verified for me. I don't live a "let's pretend" land.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

*Sliding e_o a business card* I'm not in a primary market. No inflated NYC or LA costs. I'm a 'burban boy. Let me know when your board gets tired of paying $400/hour.

Not a board but a partnership and the greybeards think that anyone under 40 without the required equipment between their legs should soldier on in the trenches.

I think my life is hard but I know I wouldn't want to be a trial lawyer.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

As I understand, fanfic using trademarked characters is legally allowed if it is not for profit and doesn't damage the perception of the characters. Lit seems to fail both those tests.

Whilst I agree with sr that stories of dubious legality have been posted without censorship, I do feel he is off-limits in his global criticism of supposed copyright breaches.

 

[PacoFear]

It's not Friday yet. Tonight is a scotch night.

Bingo, common ground! I'm a Macallan guy. 15 year. You?

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Please!

You people aren't turning a mound into a hill, or a thread into a rope, no, you're turning a spark into an earth-encompassing atomic explosion!

Geez.

It's no wonder, after reading all of this, HCF asked me to delete the story submitted for editing. Are you kidding me!? Those of you arguing against fanfic have WAY too much time on your hands. Do you REALLY think anyone cares what happens here, where a few people, mostly Brits in my experience, get their jollies? PLEASE! I believe a reality check is in order!

In my eyes you've hounded away a writer who was trying her best to contribute to this site. That's a sad thing.

Hoping you're proud of yourselves now.

Shedding armor, offering chest, saying "Kill me now you bastards!"

 

[HandcuffGirl]

I just needed an editor

I posted in the editor's forum because I needed an editor. For some reason all of you chose to hijack that request into a legal discussion on trademarks and fanfiction. (particularly smutty fanfic) If George Lucas decides to sue pretty much anyone, for pretty much any reason, they'll go broke trying to fight him in court. He could sue someone for saying that the prequel trilogy sucked. If he sues me, literotica, other fanfiction authors, then we're screwed. Maybe he'll edit my porno story for me though. . . (j/k)

 

[HandcuffGirl]

still here

It's no wonder, after reading all of this, HCF asked me to delete the story submitted for editing.

In my eyes you've hounded away a writer who was trying her best to contribute to this site. That's a sad thing.

AsylumSeeker,
Their replies had little to do with me withdrawing my request for you to edit. I simply could not work within the same time frame as you. I am also not going anywhere. I have lots and lots of ideas for Star Wars stories, and good ol' regular bondage porn as well.

 

[duskyalpha]

You people aren't turning a mound into a hill, or a thread into a rope, no, you're turning a spark into an earth-encompassing atomic explosion!

Geez.

It's no wonder, after reading all of this, HCF asked me to delete the story submitted for editing. Are you kidding me!? Those of you arguing against fanfic have WAY too much time on your hands. Do you REALLY think anyone cares what happens here, where a few people, mostly Brits in my experience, get their jollies? PLEASE! I believe a reality check is in order!

In my eyes you've hounded away a writer who was trying her best to contribute to this site. That's a sad thing.

Hoping you're proud of yourselves now.

Shedding armor, offering chest, saying "Kill me now you bastards!"

Sigh, I would like to point on that I am still open for editing any of the stories H.C.F. needs help on if she wishes to contact me.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Bingo, common ground! I'm a Macallan guy. 15 year. You?

I currently have on my shelf a bottle of Ardmore, a Dalwhinnie 15, a Glenlivet 15, and a Glenlivet 18. I'd be happy to sample your Macallan.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

You people aren't turning a mound into a hill, or a thread into a rope, no, you're turning a spark into an earth-encompassing atomic explosion!

Geez.

It's no wonder, after reading all of this, HCF asked me to delete the story submitted for editing. Are you kidding me!? Those of you arguing against fanfic have WAY too much time on your hands. Do you REALLY think anyone cares what happens here, where a few people, mostly Brits in my experience, get their jollies? PLEASE! I believe a reality check is in order!

In my eyes you've hounded away a writer who was trying her best to contribute to this site. That's a sad thing.

Hoping you're proud of yourselves now.

Shedding armor, offering chest, saying "Kill me now you bastards!"

if you think she's upset now, just wait until she sees my bill

 

[sr71plt]

As I understand, fanfic using trademarked characters is legally allowed if it is not for profit and doesn't damage the perception of the characters. Lit seems to fail both those tests.

Whilst I agree with sr that stories of dubious legality have been posted without censorship, I do feel he is off-limits in his global criticism of supposed copyright breaches.

The copyright issue I was referring to is in the forum, not the stories (and I never did post that it was about the stories).

The fanfiction issue isn't about copyright; it's about trademark. And I haven't weighed in on that one. That's a sticky topic and I have no interest in fanfiction, so I don't bother to keep track of that issue.

 

[sr71plt]

I posted in the editor's forum because I needed an editor. For some reason all of you chose to hijack that request into a legal discussion on trademarks and fanfiction. (particularly smutty fanfic) If George Lucas decides to sue pretty much anyone, for pretty much any reason, they'll go broke trying to fight him in court. He could sue someone for saying that the prequel trilogy sucked. If he sues me, literotica, other fanfiction authors, then we're screwed. Maybe he'll edit my porno story for me though. . . (j/k)

You've gotten a very nice offer for help here (twice), which you haven't acknowledged. (There may be an attitudinal reason why you can't keep an editor helping you).

As for asking for help and getting a legal discussion of what you are asking for help with--they can't be separated. No useful editor would help you do something they thought was illegal or sleazy.

Taking Star Trek and making porno of it is at least sleazy, I'd think. If I were George Lucas I'd track your ass down and sue it too. He can afford the money it would take.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I'd agree that "I was drunk" is as good a legal defense to take to court as anything else that's been offered here.

Yes, and yet you do not consider this a viable defense in my position. Enough said.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, and yet you do not consider this a viable defense in my position. Enough said.

I think the context makes clear that I thought all of the defenses offered stank.