Firearm Expertise

[HisArpy]

Re: nomenclature. I own 3 revolvers with swing out cylinders, at least, that's what I've always heard them called.

Modern revolver cylinders swing out on what's called a Crane. When you're handling a revolver for cleaning or inspection, or passing it to another person, the cylinder should be released and swung out so that everyone can see that the revolver is inop and empty. Stick two fingers through the frame opening where the cylinder goes so it can't go back into place while it's being inspected/handled.

Antique six-shooter revolver cylinders don't swing out. They have a loading door to load and empty the gun.

ANY time that you're handling any firearm and aren't preparing to shoot it, you should remove all ammo from the immediate area. No live ammo - no accidental/negligent discharge. Even so, don't forget Rule #1. Or #2, #3, or #4. Guns aren't toys. Don't treat them that way.

 

[OTCurve]

The best one I ever read was where the hero bought a new 20 ga. shotgun and, while trying it out, started off with .410 shells and ended up with the 12 ga. shells because "those were the largest that would fit in the gun." (True story. And it's a kneeslapper.)

I teach firearms classes for concealed carry applicants and renewals. I stress firearms safety for the whole duration of the class. I don't teach any of the asinine things that non-firearm-owing idiots dream up thinking it makes them sound cool. No instructor that I know of does that crap.

There are 4 rules for fireams safety:

• A gun is always considered to be loaded.

• NEVER put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

• NEVER point a gun at something you aren't willing to destroy.

• ALWAYS be sure of what is behind your target and that it is safe to shoot in that direction.

The NRA and other orgs have shortened the 4 rules into 3 by combining the last two but I was taught that it's 4 and that's what I teach. 4 simple and complete ideas that don't get mixed up or jumbled in the students' minds.

Probably the most commonly owned handgun is a.22 revolver. A lot of people who otherwise aren't into guns own them for home defense. Revolvers are simple to use, point and click. .22's also have almost no recoil to deal with. And they're dirt cheap.

Most people who are into guns own semi-auto pistols. Not all, but most do. A lot of them wind up with .40 caliber Glocks because they're cheap and available everywhere. Women carry them too, though a lot of women find them too "snappy" for comfort. Those in that camp tend to gravitate down to 9mm or .380. There are more than a few gun girls who like semi-auto's in .45. And, for them, there ain't nothing sweeter and sexier than a well worn and lovingly used 1911. Except another 1911 that matches her shoes and earrings perfectly.

New women shooters tend to like smaller sized guns but eventually gravitate to standard sized arms. I think it's because the tiny guns don't look as nasty as the bigger ones. They're "cuter" or something. However, the smaller gun in any given caliber tends to recoil harder because the physics (equal and opposite reaction) means that the smaller gun is lighter and therefore is easier to move with the same amount of applied force. This translates to harsher recoil from the smaller/lighter arm.

Revolvers are called "girl guns" because of a lot of women carry them in their purses. Hammerless revolvers are easy to conceal and there's no sharp hammer hanging out there to snag on the purse or pocket when drawing. The good thing about revolvers is that they go bang with each trigger pull. Pistols sometimes malfunction and a good shooter practices his malfunction drills on a regular basis.

The bad thing about revolvers is that they only carry 5 or 6 rounds (although some were designed to carry 9) and are slower to reload.

Also, learn the difference between single action and double action. You can find both types for revolvers as well as pistols.

Cops carry what they're issued whenever they're on duty. Some carry their duty arm while off duty too if it's what they'd otherwise carry for themselves anyway. Some departments issue Glocks and some officers don't like them for personal safety so they carry something else when off-duty. It's a personal preference thing. Other departments issue Smith & Wesson M&P pistols rather than Glocks. Beretta is another common duty pistol, especially for the military police. The most common police caliber is .40 S&W.

I don't know of any department that still issues revolvers, though some might if the officer requests one and they still have one in their armory.

Most common revolver caliber is .38. .357 revolvers can shoot .38's rounds but .38's can't shoot .357's because they're too long (not too big) for the cylinder and/or the steel used for the gun may not be strong enough to handle the higher gas pressures of the .357 without failure.

Ammo: Used or new unloaded cases are empty brass. Brass is the case. Fired ammo is called spent. Cartridges or rounds are loaded ammo. Bullets are the projectiles. Powder is ignited by the primer. You put bullets into cases. You load rounds or cartridges into the cylnder or magazine.

Gun parts have a distinct nomenclature. If you're going to talk guns, learn the names of the parts for each type of weapon. For instance, there are no cylinders on a pistol and you do not use CLIPS in them. CLIPS go in your hair or your rifle, but not your pistol. MAGAZINES go in your pistols and on your coffee table and the bedside table and in your pocket and/or mag carrier. Hide the dirty ones from your mom. At least until after you clean them. I don't know of any mom who tolerates her kids having dirty magazines lying around everywhere in the house.

I'll end the wall of text now but don't start to believe that even if you memorize everything I said here that you have a good grasp on any of this stuff. If you REALLY want to learn, go take a NRA basic pistol class. it's 2 days and costs around $200 but you'll actually learn the things you need to know to BEGIN to learn about guns safely.

VERY nicely stated!

 

[Cumference]

In my native language, the word used for “nit picking” literally is “fly fucking”.

. CLIPS go in your hair or your rifle, but not your pistol. MAGAZINES go in your pistols and on your coffee table

Magazines go in your rifle too.
(When we’re talking “box shaped thingies with a spring and a follower, that holds and delivers a number of cartridges to the rifle”)

“Clips” go in some rifles, typically in the form of “stripper clips” in a mauser type repeating rifle, where it fits in a slot on top of the action and lets you quickly press a number of rounds into the internal magazine.

A few pistol like the Mauser C96 also used stripper clips.
They are still used to some extent. All the military 5.56 I have had the pleasure of firing has been delivered in 10 round stripper clips that lets you press them directly into the magazine in three satisfying pushes rather than 30 annoying little clacks.

Some outdated designs like the M1 Garand used a “clip” that went inside the rifle to form part of the magazine. It was automatically thrown away when the last shot was fired (with an amusing “biiing”) and the rifle was pretty hampered if you don’t have said clips.....
I have a bag of them somewhere, but no M1 to go with them.

The Steyr Mannlicher M95/30 rifle (and quite a few other) used “internal clips” 50 years before the M1, and that really should have taught people, that there were better solutions than the “en bloc”-loading clips.

 

[HisArpy]

I DID say:

I'll end the wall of text now but don't start to believe that even if you memorize everything I said here that you have a good grasp on any of this stuff.

There's a ton of terminology that gets intermixed. For instance, when it comes to CLIPS they can be used on revolvers too. They are speed loader attachment for loading ammo faster into the cylinder

All of this illustrates that when it comes to guns, you can't take ANYTHING for granted if you don't know what you're talking about. I've messed around with guns almost all my life and I STILL learn new things about them all the time. The industry is not stagnant and the technology changes with each new design or shooting technique (like when the Weaver stance first started being used in the 1950's - it was a game changer).

For those who want to learn more about FAMILY in the shooting sports I offer the following link:

Steel Challenge

The Colliergungirls are great shooters and they have a ton of videos where they shoot with mom & others. Pay attention around 3:30 when Anthony Veith shoots. 5 shots in 2.49 seconds. That's from hands-up, draw, and shoot 5 different targets ending with a specific target. And he's not the world fastest either.

You don't have to run and hide and hope whenever things go bad IF you have defensive skills and practice them. Nor are guns "dangerous" to be around when you know what you're doing with them and observe the safety rules.

Watch this video. Jesse Duff is fast - 3.39 - and knows what she'd doing with a pistol.

Jesse Duff

 

[Ubernaught]

I DID say:



There's a ton of terminology that gets intermixed. For instance, when it comes to CLIPS they can be used on revolvers too. They are speed loader attachment for loading ammo faster into the cylinder

I'm just a little surprised you didn't mention "the shoulder thing that goes up".

Great vids!

 

[HisArpy]

I'm just a little surprised you didn't mention "the shoulder thing that goes up".

Great vids!

The videos are proof that teaching someone how to use and be safe around guns tends to reduce accidents. Even for juniors - the Coliergungirls walk around ARMED with LIVE AMMO and no one gets shot accidentally or on purpose.

They are also proof that a good guy with a gun (who practices regularly and consistently) can stop a bad guy with a gun. They are further proof that a woman who carries a gun (and practices with it) is in less danger from assault/rape than a woman without one. Jesse Duff does not need to be afraid of 5 guys in a dark parking lot. Or 10. Or 15. (Outside of California, NJ, NY and maybe a couple of others that is. Inside those States a woman needs a rape whistle and a cell phone and a LOT of luck.)

The ONLY reason we have mass shootings is because progressive leaning Hollywood has created an idea that guns make someone all powerful. So the fruit loops out there who want attention grab a gun and go hunting the defenseless. Truth be known, guns don't make anyone that powerful and someone who knows how to use one can defend himself (and a classroom of kids) from a fruit loop who thinks he's God and is bent on mayhem.

Yes, accident's happen. Usually to the stupid or careless or just plain unlucky. Cars, doctors, falling pianos, and even the tub in your bathroom, can kill without aiming. Cowards have different issues, they disarm themselves then tend to wind up as prey to the mentally deficient they allow to walk our streets unsupervised and self medicating. (Either way - not medicating when they need it, or doing it when they don't. It's still acting mentally deficient whichever choice is made.) Then they clamor for EVERYONE to act like they do in order to "be safe". Which indicates that the mental deficiencies in our society are a lot more widespread than we think.

 

[Cumference]

I DID say:

...

Uuuuh, I like those powdercoated boolits in merry colors!
They would be perfect for hunting smurfs.

 

[HisArpy]

Uuuuh, I like those powdercoated boolits in merry colors!
They would be perfect for hunting smurfs.

They're actually plastic or plastic coated for use at indoor ranges where lead exposure could be a problem. Some ranges require the use of mercury-free primers too for the same reasons.

The most interesting thing about that pic is that the blue ones are what looks like 9mm auto rounds and only the copper one (semi-wadcutter) is for a revolver but ALL of the ammo is on revolver moon/half-moon clips. So what we're looking at is a reload for a 9mm revolver. Which is cool.

 

[Cumference]

The idea of shooting different calibers from the same gun is alluring.

I actually thought the projectiles were from ARES or something similar.

In my parts they are gaining on the market.

They have a reasonable price, work great and can be used on ranges that don’t allow jacketed projectiles due to range safety.

... and they look great.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The idea of shooting different calibers from the same gun is alluring.

I actually thought the projectiles were from ARES or something similar.

In my parts they are gaining on the market.

They have a reasonable price, work great and can be used on ranges that don’t allow jacketed projectiles due to range safety.

... and they look great.

You actually can't shoot different calibers from one gun...unless you are going to shoot sabot rounds - smaller in a larger bore. Such as a .223 caliber from a .308 caliber. But the .223 caliber must be a sabot round.

 

[HisArpy]

You actually can't shoot different calibers from one gun...unless you are going to shoot sabot rounds - smaller in a larger bore. Such as a .223 caliber from a .308 caliber. But the .223 caliber must be a sabot round.

Not perfectly true.

As I said, .357 revolvers CAN shoot .38 rounds. The bullet diameter is the same, just the length of the case is different. No modification needed to do this and the accuracy is not impaired to any extent that one needs to worry about it.

You can also alter some handguns to take different caliber barrels/slides. A lot of people have .22 cal barrels and slides for their .45 cal 1911's. Swap them and go have fun plinking. In the videos above, the Colliergungirls shoot these.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Not perfectly true.

As I said, .357 revolvers CAN shoot .38 rounds. The bullet diameter is the same, just the length of the case is different. No modification needed to do this and the accuracy is not impaired to any extent that one needs to worry about it.

You can also alter some handguns to take different caliber barrels/slides. A lot of people have .22 cal barrels and slides for their .45 cal 1911's. Swap them and go have fun plinking. In the videos above, the Colliergungirls shoot these.

In the case of the .357, .38 rounds are the essentially the same bullet except for power load. You can't shoot a .357 round from a .38, it will blow the cylinder and/or barrel.

Changing barrel and slide makes it a completely different gun.

Where I can take my Remington .308 and shoot .223 rounds without changing a thing. I can then go back to shooting .308 just as quickly. Also, the .223 rounds will have no rifling. They will be pristine as they day they were made.

 

[Weird Harold]

You actually can't shoot different calibers from one gun...unless you are going to shoot sabot rounds - smaller in a larger bore. Such as a .223 caliber from a .308 caliber. But the .223 caliber must be a sabot round.

That's not really true. .357 Magnum and 38 special/S&W have .357 inch diameter projectiles. 9mm is .355 inches in diameter and will fire in a 38 or .357 with no problem and only moon clips or half-moon clips like you pictured to hold them in a revolver cylinder.

.45 ACP will fit in many 45 and 44 caliber revolvers by the use of moon clips or replacement cylinders.

Ruger Single-six revolvers in .22 caliber were often sold with a .22 WMR cylinder. They normal 22LR cylinder would accept .22 long, long rifle, short .22 blank and ".22 bb." The last is little more than a primer with a .177 'BB' stuck too it.

When I was stationed at MacDill AFB in the late 70's all of the M-16a1s used for qualifications were fitted with .22LR adapters to reduce noise and cost. IIRC, the adapter simply replaced the bolt and used special magazines that fit in the normal 5.56 magazine well.

I'm sure that there are several other examples I've forgotten, but it is not only possible, but fairly common for one firearm to accept multiple "calibers" -- especially revolvers and bolt-action rifles.

 

[yukonnights]

I was with you...until you wrote this one.

The videos are proof that teaching someone how to use and be safe around guns tends to reduce accidents. Even for juniors - the Coliergungirls walk around ARMED with LIVE AMMO and no one gets shot accidentally or on purpose.

They are also proof that a good guy with a gun (who practices regularly and consistently) can stop a bad guy with a gun. They are further proof that a woman who carries a gun (and practices with it) is in less danger from assault/rape than a woman without one. Jesse Duff does not need to be afraid of 5 guys in a dark parking lot. Or 10. Or 15. (Outside of California, NJ, NY and maybe a couple of others that is. Inside those States a woman needs a rape whistle and a cell phone and a LOT of luck.) The only flaw in your logic is; For some reason it seems impossible to actually require and enforce that anyone be qualified and required to practice...so that's more like wishing, isn't it? Most conceal carry "classes" are a joke, and in some cases can be done online. Until these issues are addressed, the sad truth is that there are, and will be, more unqualified and or "bad people" with guns than well qualified "good guys". Some folks like to say; It's not the gun that kills...it's the person. That's a pretty catchy slogan, but why do the untrained and/or bad people still get to legally own guns???

The ONLY reason we have mass shootings is because progressive leaning Hollywood has created an idea that guns make someone all powerful. So the fruit loops out there who want attention grab a gun and go hunting the defenseless. Truth be known, guns don't make anyone that powerful and someone who knows how to use one can defend himself (and a classroom of kids) from a fruit loop who thinks he's God and is bent on mayhem. Really, you believe that the ONLY reason we have mass shootings are because of movies Guns don't make anyone all that powerful??? It's only "fruit loops out there"? Most of what you were saying earlier came across as honest information, but this ???

Yes, accident's happen. Usually to the stupid or careless or just plain unlucky. Cars, doctors, falling pianos, and even the tub in your bathroom, can kill without aiming. Cowards have different issues, they disarm themselves then tend to wind up as prey to the mentally deficient they allow to walk our streets unsupervised and self medicating. (Either way - not medicating when they need it, or doing it when they don't. It's still acting mentally deficient whichever choice is made.) Then they clamor for EVERYONE to act like they do in order to "be safe". Which indicates that the mental deficiencies in our society are a lot more widespread than we think. And again, simply poor logic. To imply that victims of shootings are "just stupid or careless or just plain unlucky" , actually has me at a loss for words. Then you go into a rant about other deaths due to accident...which begs mentioning that most of those "dangers" are required by law to be covered by liability insurance...which makes me ask; why not guns too? I won't even comment on the last diatribe about all the "mentally deficient" who seem to be the cause of all the problems because they can easily get a gun w/o much difficulty. And just a little factoid here: The last time we had a "gun incident" around here was when an angry boyfriend came into a local market with a loaded gun looking to kill his girlfriend...he wasn't one of the miserable self-medicating 'mentally deficient, just a regular dude with a gun being so angry he could kill...it's just not all neat and tidy like you want to believe.

Yep, I was with you until all of this boiled out. And don't think I'm anti-gun. I was raised with 'em and have owned many and still do. But I'm old enough to remember a time when guns were just guns, and not a fetish nor a political hobbyhorse. PS: Don't bother with a response... since you turned this into a political rally, I'm gone...just carry on.

 

[HisArpy]

Not going to get upset. Hopefully no else does either.

There's a reason a lot of (not most) concealed carry classes are a joke - it's because people with an agenda set the rules. People who see this requirement merely as a revenue stream and dumb down the content so that they can run as many people through the class as they can. People who liken the requirement as a "lawfully imposed tax" on society equal to the "luxury tax" or "sin taxes" on cigarettes and alcohol. People who really have no clue about guns yet believe they have the power to impose their lack of knowledge on others. People who claim to have a history of gun familiarity and who also claim to stand for "gun rights", yet for some reason decide that 16 - 24 classroom hours of training is "required" before someone can exercise a Constitutional Right. People who ask WHY can anyone own and use a gun without any training - while not understanding the nature of a Right and instead confusing it with a privilege granted by a benevolent government authority. People who wonder WHY you can own a gun without mandatory liability insurance - as if keeping and bearing arms is not a Constitutional Right. People who confuse the difference between "regulating" and "restricting". Nor do they care as long as their viewpoint is the one that's mandated.

Guns are political only because people WANT them to be political so that they can expound on their beliefs. I tried to be factual in my responses and leave the politics out. NOTHING I said is untrue. Controversial, maybe, but not untrue.

Take my opinion about Hollywood's responsibilities in creating violence. There have been studies done that show that violence in movies and cartoons tends to increase the violent tendencies in those who watch them. There have been societal movements to reduce violence in cartoons. We now age restrict based on violent content (among others) as a result.

Hollywood and the entertainment industry have a direct impact on violence in our society. Yet takes no responsibility or blame for it. Instead they churn out violent movie after violent song and music video after violent video game and point to inanimate objects as the reason for societal violence. Then they support groups which propound violence against the government and peaceful individuals harming no one. This is irresponsible yet these same people claim it's the GUN that's the supposed cause.

Your analogy proves my point on this. Had the guy not been inculcated to believe that the gun would make him all powerful he would not have used it to go hunting the defenseless. Nor, had the victims been armed would they have been helpless to defend themselves against the lunatic who thought that a gun would solve all his personal problems. Because, believe me, whatever his problem was, it was HIS PERSONAL PROBLEM, not yours, mine, the grocery store's, or his ex girlfriend's. The gun made no difference in that. SOCIETY created this problem by letting that lunatic run around unsupervised and unmedicated. Or letting him self-medicate when he didn't need to - your choice based on the facts of that particular event.

It's true, handguns aren't that powerful. There's a huge difference in energy between a handgun and a rifle cartridge. There's even a saying that covers that divide - a handgun is what you use while you fight your way to your rifle. The rationale behind that expression is that a handgun isn't that powerful while the rifle is. This is borne out by statistics which show that people can and do survive being shot with handguns while rifles have lower survival rates. This, however, is offset by the Hollywood movie which produces effects whereby someone shot with an airsoft pellet gun gets blown backward 15 feet before splattering into bloody chunks. It's ridiculous yet it's the cultural belief at the same time that a kid with a squirtgun can kill everyone on the planet. Because it's a fully automatic assault squirtgun.

Accidents happen all the time. People have fender benders, get burns and cuts, slip and fall, and occasionally worse. Few choose to be a victim. Those that do are called suicides and that's intentional and not accidental. Thus, an accident is most likely either because the victim was stupid, careless or unlucky. Requiring liability insurance doesn't change those parameters. Nor does it solve the problem - hit & run accidents prove that point clearly - the liability insurance did nothing to prevent the accident. Nor did driver's training prevent the accident or reduce the damage. Nor is every accident compensible by someone else.

The things you said are differences of opinion I run across on a regular basis. Usually by those who have an agenda and a strongly held viewpoint. I don't mind. I try to educate as much as I can. Which is why I linked to the videos above because if your only real exposure to guns is via the Hollywood medium and anti-gun rhetoric, then seeing a little bit of reality produced by a couple of teenagers might be something everyone should see. It could even change a few opinions.

Guns aren't evil. Nor are they bad. They are tools to be used for defense. That some misuse their tools, or fail to become proficient with them, doesn't change the nature of the tool or it's intended purpose. If you want to stop violent crime, punish the criminal. If society won't because of lax prosecutions, then it is up to the individual to protect him/her self. Blaming them for doing so is silly. Preventing them from doing so makes you morally complicit for any harm that comes their way whether you choose to believe that or not.

Just as you select the best alarm company for your home, install locks on the doors, check and change the batteries on your smoke alarms, and practice home emergency drills, you should also practice with the other tools you have for your family's safety. Failure to do so means you are either stupid, careless, and in the event of an attack, unlucky that you were selected instead of the gun guy next door.

 

[HisArpy]

In the case of the .357, .38 rounds are the essentially the same bullet except for power load. You can't shoot a .357 round from a .38, it will blow the cylinder and/or barrel.

Changing barrel and slide makes it a completely different gun.

Where I can take my Remington .308 and shoot .223 rounds without changing a thing. I can then go back to shooting .308 just as quickly. Also, the .223 rounds will have no rifling. They will be pristine as they day they were made.

The main reason you can't shoot a .357 out of a .38 is that the .357 cartridge is longer than the .38's cylinder chamber. You're trying to stick 40mm long cartridge into a 39mm deep hole. Since the chamber headspaces on the nose of the case, the 33mm long case in the .357 vs the .38's 29.3mm case length make the case rim stick out quite a ways and you can't close the cylinder. (I guess you could always take a small hammer and try to tap them in... I wouldn't and wouldn't advise anyone to try, but some people will do anything to try to prove a point.)

If, after modifying the cylinder chamber depth, you did load the .357 into the .38 then maybe the steel might not take the higher pressures without failure- as I noted above. It might, but it might not. If it doesn't you get the nickname "Lefty" for the rest of your life.

.223 and 5.56 can interchangeably shoot rounds without doing anything except loading the different cartridges. Accuracy suffers because of barrel rifling differences and you sometimes have extraction issues, but they will do it.

 

[FGB]

".223 and 5.56 can interchangeably shoot rounds without doing anything except loading the different cartridges. Accuracy suffers because of barrel rifling differences and you sometimes have extraction issues, but they will do it."

Not exactly.

I have reloading dies for .223 and 5.56 mm.

I had a .223 that would not chamber 5.56 ammo.

My Mini 14 shoots both. They both shoot .224 Dia. Bullets

 

[Zeb_Carter]

".223 and 5.56 can interchangeably shoot rounds without doing anything except loading the different cartridges. Accuracy suffers because of barrel rifling differences and you sometimes have extraction issues, but they will do it."

Not exactly.

I have reloading dies for .223 and 5.56 mm.

I had a .223 that would not chamber 5.56 ammo.

My Mini 14 shoots both. They both shoot .224 Dia. Bullets

Hmmm...are you sure it's not the other way around?

Seeing as how a 5.56mm is .218 cal and .223 is 5.66mm. Unless of course the cartridge is longer with the 5.56.

5.56mm / 25.4 = 0.2188976378"

0.223" × 25.4 = 5.6642mm

 

[Weird Harold]

Hmmm...are you sure it's not the other way around?

Seeing as how a 5.56mm is .218 cal and .223 is 5.66mm. Unless of course the cartridge is longer with the 5.56.

5.56mm / 25.4 = 0.2188976378"

0.223" × 25.4 = 5.6642mm

Cartridge definitions usually don't match physical bullet diameters. Many ".30 caliber" bullets are .308 inches in diameter, but some are .311.

.270 Winchester uses bullets .277 inches in diameter.

.44 calibers and some .45 calibers use bullets that are .410 inches in diameter.

"38 caliber" cartridges use bullets .357 or .355 inches. The latter is 9mm Parabellum and exactly converts to 9mm diameter. other "9mm" calibers use .357 diameter bullets.

tl;dr -- it takes a reloader's handbook or manufacturer's specs to determine what size bullet goes in what "caliber" cartridge.

 

[FGB]

.223 / 5.56x45mm

The “two-two-three” (inch) Remington has almost the exact dimensions as the “five-five-six” (mm) NATO cartridge.

The 5.56 has higher pressures than the .223, so .223 rounds can be fired in a 5.56 rifle, while 5.56 rounds should not be fired in a .223 rifle. Bullets are around 55 grains and the cartridge has light recoil.

It is the ammunition used in the M16/M4/AR-15 line of rifles and there’s still endless debate on its effectiveness in combat. However for civilian shooters who get the benefit of hollow point ammunition…

 

[toeskr]

Why else include them in an erotica story, but to make your big gun spurt creamy stuff?

Fuck a bunch'a guns and the National Ratchet Asses.

Night L and curve will give you nothing but grief unless you agree with their progressive positions.

They have no idea how to keep their snotty noses out of topics that do not interest them but those girls sure want you to hear their opinions and want to sway you.

Bitch, whine, moan and complain. You are wrong, they are right. Guns are evil. Threads that they have nothing to contribute to doesn't matter to them. They can't step away and let like minded people discuss issues.

And jafo sometimes jumps in with nothing worthwhile to contribute as well.

Ya know, scary and inanimate objects and such.

Maybe one day I will jump in and tell people from other countries how fucked up their laws are and try to sway opinions on a public board. Not just a porn board girls.

 

[NightL]

Night L and curve will give you nothing but grief unless you agree with their progressive positions.

Nice to see I remain in thought after this last month

Then of course you you do have your special way with homoerotic endearments and tender exchanges while slobbering and salivating over your gun verbiage.

It is not the metal of an object but the idiots who glorify guns and attempt to normalise them. As a drug dealer is the last influence you would wish for children in a neighbourhood your man-child glee over firearms would firmly stamp you as someone to be avoided at all costs.

Your outward gushing of all things guns makes you totally a contender for making mistakes through bravado, over confidence or just carelessness.

I have no issue with hydrofluoric acid either, providing it is stored with the utmost safety in mind and used for the purposes of industry where it is intended. To have some nut job, however, salivating over it and claiming how cool it would be to carry it around in public places would be fucking insane - yet here we are with a bunch of crazies talking of their desires over objects that kill multitudes of children and innocent people every year.

Your gun obsessions do not make you a cool person, you are not contributing to society with it, it does not help an elderly person cross the street, it does not make you a worthy person.

This whole "I'm a city dweller and I have to tell the world how knowledgeable I am about objects designed for killing. I like to touch them and hold them, I like to have them close to my body at all times... I like them ready to POP in an instant because it makes me feel SO manly." - get over it.

 

[HisArpy]

Nice to see I remain in thought after this last month

Then of course you you do have your special way with homoerotic endearments and tender exchanges while slobbering and salivating over your gun verbiage.

It is not the metal of an object but the idiots who glorify guns and attempt to normalise them. As a drug dealer is the last influence you would wish for children in a neighbourhood your man-child glee over firearms would firmly stamp you as someone to be avoided at all costs.

Your outward gushing of all things guns makes you totally a contender for making mistakes through bravado, over confidence or just carelessness.

I have no issue with hydrofluoric acid either, providing it is stored with the utmost safety in mind and used for the purposes of industry where it is intended. To have some nut job, however, salivating over it and claiming how cool it would be to carry it around in public places would be fucking insane - yet here we are with a bunch of crazies talking of their desires over objects that kill multitudes of children and innocent people every year.

Your gun obsessions do not make you a cool person, you are not contributing to society with it, it does not help an elderly person cross the street, it does not make you a worthy person.

This whole "I'm a city dweller and I have to tell the world how knowledgeable I am about objects designed for killing. I like to touch them and hold them, I like to have them close to my body at all times... I like them ready to POP in an instant because it makes me feel SO manly." - get over it.

I am so sorry for you for whatever has caused this inability to understand the attraction and desire people have for owning "things".

People like guns for the same reason people like cars. Or motorcycles. Or even Christmas decorations. There is something about them and the individual's makeup that draws and connects them to each other.

For example; more than a few people collect sports cars. Cars that can actually go 200 mph in some cases. Yet, I hear no hue and cry about their lack of manhood. Or the fact that owning one or three or whatever doesn't contribute to the greater good of society. Nor do I hear the outrage over the fact that cars kill far more people EVERY MONTH than guns do all year. Yet there is nothing from those who feel as you seem to in your post about these dangerous objects.

I like antique clocks and watches. They are micro-sized tiny high-speed precision machines built when our mechanical expertise consisted of total loss oiling systems, steam drive and open crankcases. I have a few that were even built before the age of steam. I have 1 that is older than the formal creation of the United States.

They fascinate me to no end. Not just for the mechanical aspects, but because I can pick one up and hold a physical piece of someone else's life in my hand. Someone who purchased THAT particular watch or clock for reasons I'll never know. Someone who also appreciated the craftsmanship and/or design and/or beauty of the object. Someone I'll never have the chance to talk to about it. But for a moment, while that watch or clock is in my hand I know them. I have reached across the distance of the years to see into their lives, through their eyes.

It is the same with my guns. Or it was until that unfortunate boating accident where my gun safe slipped overboard on a turbulent Sunday sail and all were lost to the dark briny depths. I still morn...

My guns fascinate me. The interconnection between the mechanical parts and my body to create a greater sum that neither has until that connection is made. The eye/hand coordination required to use them to perfection as intended. The constant practice to the point I know which one I'm holding by the feel alone. The maintenance and cleaning and upkeep to keep them at the peak of their performance capabilities.

These are my guns. I cherish them because they are my guns. Some were given to me by people who have passed on. Other's I bought with paper route money. And still others I own because they are the best possible example of firearms craftsmanship and expertise. And this doesn't even consider the historical significance of those in my small collection that aren't safe to shoot any longer. They are my guns and I remember the lives that they have touched. The people who have admired and used them. The history and knowledge that have been gifted to me through them. They are my guns.

None of this has anything to do with the guns making me feel the way you attempt to characterize it. Any more than owning a Chevy Corvette makes someone a careless crazy driver. That you feel this way shows something fundamental is missing in your makeup. In some circles it's called a lack of soul. And for that, I feel sorry for you.

 

[NightL]

That you feel this way shows something fundamental is missing in your makeup. In some circles it's called a lack of soul. And for that, I feel sorry for you.

about fucking guns? - Ya WHAT?!!! Oh you are so so screwed up!

Next time you give your granny a hug good-bye - whisper in her ear "you soulless bitch, I despise you".

 

[HisArpy]

about fucking guns? - Ya WHAT?!!! Oh you are so so screwed up!

Next time you give your granny a hug good-bye - whisper in her ear "you soulless bitch, I despise you".

This sentiment illustrates my point perfectly. Of the 2 of us, YOU are the one who casts slurs, and ill wishes upon others. It is not me or my guns that are the problem, you are.

Way back in the dawn of time, our ancestors climbed down from the treetops and stared across the savannah, wondering what was out there. A brave few left the safety of the trees to see. More followed them. And then a few who scampered after them before rushing back to the trees only to return to the adventuresome group again. Repeating this time and time again until eventually they realized that they were now too far from the trees to return safely. So they clung to the group while continuing to look to the rear and never forward.

The world is not safe. Mankind is comparatively weak physically. We are thin hided, not very strong in musculature, have no real defensive weaponry, and are easily killed by shock to our nervous systems. Yet our ancestors stepped into the unknown. And thrived.

You, on the other hand, still look back toward the illusory safety of the trees and demand that I do also. And if I don't return there with you, you call me the bad person, wish harm to others you don't know, and wonder why I feel sorry for you.

The difference between us isn't guns. It's that my descendants will dream of walking on other planets some day. Yours will only want to stay home and demand that my children be punished for not wanting that too. It will be my guns that will prevent that from happening.