Food For Thought

[catalina_francisco]

Welcome to the conversation Catalina. Did I read somewhere that you are in Oz?

You make some very good points about insecurity and trust. Very nicely put with much depth and few words.

Thank you for the depth.

LOL, yes I am....bit of a mixed bag, sad to be away from the beautiful Amo, but overjoyed to be spending time with my granddaughter and daughter...and all too aware and sad the time is running out fast. Having fun taking photos though, and drooling over my daughter's collection of corsets, latex clothing, shoes, and toys...and seems the more time I spend with the almost five year old (presently prancing around in mum's high heels), the more I am seeing she has a well developed and undeniable sadistic streak, teasingly mixed with sweet smile and charm all delivered perfectly together in a package of all things pretty and feminine.

Catalina

 

[Shadowsdream]

Okaaaaaaaaaaaay... LOL You're gonna make me stew 'til you tell me, I see.



Did you play with Sparky? He barks and eats dog cookies.

Sub stew sounds delightful...geesh...I just read the Sparky comment and asked Myself how you knew I played with Sparky!

 

[graceanne]

Sub stew sounds delightful...geesh...I just read the Sparky comment and asked Myself how you knew I played with Sparky!

ADR sees and knows all . .. . *plays spooky music*

 

[Shadowsdream]

Nice to have you back.

I don't know that there's a lot of information here totally specific to BDSM relationships. People being people some end relationships well some end them badly, some with integrity and some without, it all just seems like the vast panorama of human behavior to me. Yes, some people get people into a vulnerable situation and take advantage, it's inevitable. Perhaps the specific vulnerabilities in D/s make it a happier hunting ground, but I'm not sure it really is when I look at non-D/s people and their ways too.

WOW what an incredible av!

I certainly agree with all You have said it...it is not BDSM specifically oriented...I suppose what troubles Me is that trust and honesty as well as integrity have become the BDSM buzz words and I see them weakening more than I have noticed. "Buzz" words can lull people into believing W/we are a more trust worthy group when in fact W/we are not much different in reality to most people who wish to be in a relationship of what ever is the preference.

Do you see relationships becoming any easier to find in the BDSM world Netzach?

As always it is a pleasure when You add Your voice to My conversations ~~smile~~ Thank You!

 

[Shadowsdream]

ADR sees and knows all . .. . *plays spooky music*

No kidding...thats why blindfolds were created...

 

[Shadowsdream]

LOL, yes I am....bit of a mixed bag, sad to be away from the beautiful Amo, but overjoyed to be spending time with my granddaughter and daughter...and all too aware and sad the time is running out fast. Having fun taking photos though, and drooling over my daughter's collection of corsets, latex clothing, shoes, and toys...and seems the more time I spend with the almost five year old (presently prancing around in mum's high heels), the more I am seeing she has a well developed and undeniable sadistic streak, teasingly mixed with sweet smile and charm all delivered perfectly together in a package of all things pretty and feminine.

Catalina

Grand daughters are funny creatures. One of Mine picks up the crop and starts to point and give directions..the flogger she seems to instinctively know is for smacking things. Seems to run in the family as I see it also runs in yours ~~grin~~

 

[shy slave]

I have no experience of sub-stealing in real life, but people have tried to make me change my mind when talking online.

It becomes tedious to rebuff people.

They simply look at my name and decide I am 'theirs'

I am upfront about being owned, I am clear that I don't web cam, cyber sex or have any form of play online.

Somehow it makes them all the more persistant. As if 'no' means 'you can persuade me'

I tell them I save all conversations and I send them to him, but again they try to persuade me to play.

I have had varied comments, including one person who asked why I even went online!

I cannot begin to imagine the pressure I would feel should I play or meet in real life. Its not a place I want to go.

Tying this thread into another one about 'taking a dominant woman,' perhaps people who attempt to sub steal get a 'one upmanship pleasure' from acting in this way.

Its an interesting topic, thank you Shadowsdream; I have read all the replies several times.

It appears that even in a world where we think we understand peoples kinks, there are people with a mean streak that manifests in ways that are simply cruel without explanation.

 

[graceanne]

I have no experience of sub-stealing in real life, but people have tried to make me change my mind when talking online.

It becomes tedious to rebuff people.

They simply look at my name and decide I am 'theirs'

I am upfront about being owned, I am clear that I don't web cam, cyber sex or have any form of play online.

Somehow it makes them all the more persistant. As if 'no' means 'you can persuade me'

I tell them I save all conversations and I send them to him, but again they try to persuade me to play.

I have had varied comments, including one person who asked why I even went online!

I cannot begin to imagine the pressure I would feel should I play or meet in real life. Its not a place I want to go.

Tying this thread into another one about 'taking a dominant woman,' perhaps people who attempt to sub steal get a 'one upmanship pleasure' from acting in this way.

Its an interesting topic, thank you Shadowsdream; I have read all the replies several times.

It appears that even in a world where we think we understand peoples kinks, there are people with a mean streak that manifests in ways that are simply cruel without explanation.

I know what you mean. It gets worse if they find out you're a homemaker. A lot of men have this fantasy of 'corrupting' a homemaker.

Frankly, telling them that I don't cyber, etc, just seems to make them more determined. I've also had them ask me why I even get online if I don't want to cyber. I had another (who claimed to be into bdsm) ask WHY I have to do what K tells me. It's really freaken irritating.

 

[esclave_PP]

I know what you mean. It gets worse if they find out you're a homemaker. A lot of men have this fantasy of 'corrupting' a homemaker.

Frankly, telling them that I don't cyber, etc, just seems to make them more determined. I've also had them ask me why I even get online if I don't want to cyber. I had another (who claimed to be into bdsm) ask WHY I have to do what K tells me. It's really freaken irritating.

Frankly, and I don't know if others here feel this way or not, I have found that I can't relate to my regular vanilla friends as much as I used to. That said, I can for my business, but if it is personal, I get so tired of trying to explain my life that I just don't bother. I actually brought this up with Master the other day, and he pretty much agreed that it is usually pointless to try and explain it, especially if they have no desire to have an open mind or eyes for that matter.

As for getting im'd a lot, that's why I changed my av to the little monster dude. Figured that might help a bit. lol.

And Maam, you're most welcome. My courage comes from my Master. Without him I never would have found it.

 

[FurryFury]

I know what you mean. It gets worse if they find out you're a homemaker. A lot of men have this fantasy of 'corrupting' a homemaker.

Frankly, telling them that I don't cyber, etc, just seems to make them more determined. I've also had them ask me why I even get online if I don't want to cyber. I had another (who claimed to be into bdsm) ask WHY I have to do what K tells me. It's really freaken irritating.

That's sad and really frustrating the nerve! Real people who actually know something about all this are easy to discern from those cretins!

Fury

Frankly, and I don't know if others here feel this way or not, I have found that I can't relate to my regular vanilla friends as much as I used to. That said, I can for my business, but if it is personal, I get so tired of trying to explain my life that I just don't bother. I actually brought this up with Master the other day, and he pretty much agreed that it is usually pointless to try and explain it, especially if they have no desire to have an open mind or eyes for that matter.

As for getting im'd a lot, that's why I changed my av to the little monster dude. Figured that might help a bit. lol.

And Maam, you're most welcome. My courage comes from my Master. Without him I never would have found it.

I get along with all my friends still when we have the time and I don't try to explain my life to them if I don't know they can handle it.

Most of my friends though are pretty tolerant, open and deviant in their own ways. Course I didn't find that out for a while...like I said I do tend to be too open and when you are people tend to open up to you.

Fury

 

[AngelicAssassin]

A lot of men have this fantasy of 'corrupting' a homemaker.

Dissing those with MILF fantasies?

Whoops, wrong thread.

BTW, Sd, when you get a chance, check out DVS' little fantasy in Forcing a dominant woman to.......

And you thought i only played in one level of Hell.

 

[FurryFury]

Dissing those with MILF fantasies?

Whoops, wrong thread.

BTW, Sd, when you get a chance, check out DVS' little fantasy in Forcing a dominant woman to.......

And you thought i only played in one level of Hell.

Where is that thread? MILF fantasies bother me some depending on the ages and permutations of the fantasy itself.

Fury

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Where is that thread?

MILF? Not been done, i don't think. i referred to the ask another question concerning my oops.

 

[FurryFury]

MILF? Not been done, i don't think. i referred to the ask another question concerning my oops.

Just curious, that's me, always curious, thanks for the clarification.

Fury

 

[Netzach]

WOW what an incredible av!

I certainly agree with all You have said it...it is not BDSM specifically oriented...I suppose what troubles Me is that trust and honesty as well as integrity have become the BDSM buzz words and I see them weakening more than I have noticed. "Buzz" words can lull people into believing W/we are a more trust worthy group when in fact W/we are not much different in reality to most people who wish to be in a relationship of what ever is the preference.

Do you see relationships becoming any easier to find in the BDSM world Netzach?

As always it is a pleasure when You add Your voice to My conversations ~~smile~~ Thank You!

An incredible outtake from an incredible weekend which gave me an incredible bondage hangover!

I concur, I don't think it's easier to find relationships in BDSM circles than outside them. Ideally we're more liable to uncover sexuality compatibilities and incompatibilities earlier than vanilla people do, but that's not always true either.

I like what you said about buzzwords. I think it's good that we as a community try to encourage things like trust and honesty but honestly when I read so many screeds about them online that all sound identical, I begin to think that we're maybe watering down the message or making it meaningless.

 

[CutieMouse]

I've been trying to organize my thoughts on the topic at hand for a few days now...

To a certain degree I feel the issue of "stealing" a partner is a result of a gradual acceptance of non-monogomy by society at large. Cheating is still frowned upon; however, poly relationships are becoming more common. I don't see it as a BDSM issue per say... sometimes I feel like we're in this fuzzy grey world where it is more accepted to have multiple partners but people can't face the ethics of such situations. Thus the cheating/stealing/manipulating (old patterns from when such things were frowned upon) continues both in and out of BDSM context. The idea of a Master with multiple slaves or slave/sub sharing or what have you seems to be *almost commonplace*. IMO (from a primarily outside perspective since most of my exposure is through the boards of Lit) there is a semi-casual attitude about multiple partners; it can be difficult to ground oneself with integrity re: loyalty and honesty with one partner when the "rules" can be quite wishy-washy. Is it ok to "cyber"? To play at a dungeon? To have RL and OL relationships? When does one take priority over the other?

This isn't to knock polyamory by any means (BTDT will never do it again); it is more a half-formed wondering if the shift in the definition of "relationship" has evolved more than people are actually capable of and the stealing/manipulating/etc is more prevelant as we (general we) decide which old rules should or should not "stick"?

Or maybe I'm talking in circles... it's late.

As for the hijacks-

I find it somewhat (very) annoying when men presume things about me... I've developed the habit of responding to interruptions (IMs) by pointing out I don't cyber or discuss my private life within the first few minutes.

If you don't mind, Fury, I'm curious what bothers you about the whole MILF thing? (we can start another thread if necessary). I don't claim to understand the MILF fantasy whateveritis... I've been told I fall into the catagory, but the idea makes me laugh. I am utterly neutral about it- can't bring myself to get all excited or twitchy either way.

 

[graceanne]

I find it somewhat (very) annoying when men presume things about me... I've developed the habit of responding to interruptions (IMs) by pointing out I don't cyber or discuss my private life within the first few minutes.

So do I. I've been accused of being rude - but normally the ones who kick up the biggest fuss are the ones who eventualy get around trying to get me to cyber. And I've actually had guys thank me for being honest, cause that's what they're looking for, and that way they can move on to someone who WILL cyber with them.

 

[FurryFury]

Hi Cutiemouse!

Your post is good, it's asks a lot of good questions which I have a lot of thoughts about and it deserves a replie. I have one and it will be a bit lengthy.

I don't have the time tonight in fact, I am already past my bedtime with two early morning gigs, a couple of long drives, "celebratory" lunch and other errands bearing down on me tomorrow. I will get back here though. I have some things to say about the questions you posed.

About the MILF thing, again, I would love to talk about it. If you want to start a separate thread I'll be there. When I get some time.

Night, night!

Thanks for the good thought provoking post!

Fury

 

[FurryFury]

I've been trying to organize my thoughts on the topic at hand for a few days now...

To a certain degree I feel the issue of "stealing" a partner is a result of a gradual acceptance of non-monogomy by society at large. Cheating is still frowned upon; however, poly relationships are becoming more common. I don't see it as a BDSM issue per say... sometimes I feel like we're in this fuzzy grey world where it is more accepted to have multiple partners but people can't face the ethics of such situations. Thus the cheating/stealing/manipulating (old patterns from when such things were frowned upon) continues both in and out of BDSM context. The idea of a Master with multiple slaves or slave/sub sharing or what have you seems to be *almost commonplace*. IMO (from a primarily outside perspective since most of my exposure is through the boards of Lit) there is a semi-casual attitude about multiple partners; it can be difficult to ground oneself with integrity re: loyalty and honesty with one partner when the "rules" can be quite wishy-washy. Is it ok to "cyber"? To play at a dungeon? To have RL and OL relationships? When does one take priority over the other?

This isn't to knock polyamory by any means (BTDT will never do it again); it is more a half-formed wondering if the shift in the definition of "relationship" has evolved more than people are actually capable of and the stealing/manipulating/etc is more prevelant as we (general we) decide which old rules should or should not "stick"?

Or maybe I'm talking in circles... it's late..

Hi Cutie Mouse!

I've been thinking a lot about all this lately too. I think you may be right about what you say above. My comments may range all over the place but here goes.

Last year if someone had asked me what would happen to my marriage if my husband had sex or what have you,with another woman or man I would have said it would be over, period.

Now he has allowed me freedom online to do as I wish. I find that amazing and strange but I can hardly say that if he were having an "online" affair that I would get upset about it now. Though I know I would have some concerns.

By the same token, I can't say that I don't want to really be with others in RL myself. He has, in a way, given me his permission for that. It burns away inside me how much I want to,
feel someone else really dominate me, so why haven't I?

Philosophically I've always felt that monogamy was not the end all, be all, of a relationship but it's hard to shake your upbringing. It has always been a huge measure of your
commitment. The permutations and shifts that adding other people into the mix with or without your partner can't really be accurately predicted. I don't wish to hurt him or our marriage.

If I did decide to go to another I'm not at all sure I would tell my husband. To date, I've never cheated or lied to him about anything. We both know we are consummate deceivers when it's called for with others because we had to become that to survive our childhoods. We have long agreed to be honest together even when it hurts. Example: It's 3:00 am with no solution in sight and work looming early the next day! *grr*

So if I were to wake up one day and said, you know what, I'm going to do something for me for a change, just because I feel I need to. Should I tell him? If our positions were reversed, I'm pretty sure I would be happier not knowing. I'm also sure that my own emotions would be such at tidal swell that I wouldn't want to have to deal with his as well. That day may never come of course, I'm just thinking about it and kind of obsessing about it a lot.

The question is this, if I did do that, even if he never was hurt by it or found out about it, would I be able to forgive myself? Would I be able to adjust to this new vision of me as someone not fully loyal? That is why I haven't done such a thing yet and may never do it.

So, I can see why some people in this day and age might sneak around even if what they want to do is considered okay and even if they have the provisional okay of their partners. I won't judge them because my feet are made of clay. Sure it's potentially a horrible deception but can't judge them? Not when I may topple at any moment to get what I deeply desire.

Now, stealing from someone else is a whole different, but at times related, level of deception and pain. I would never seek to steal someone else. Manipulating someone else to you is also something I wouldn't do. The story related on here was done by someone who did what he wanted deliberately causing distress and pain. That too is a whole 'nother thing IMO. It is too bad he can't be censored for such behavior.

Now on to the hi jacking.

As for the hijacks-

I find it somewhat (very) annoying when men presume things about me... I've developed the habit of responding to interruptions (IMs) by pointing out I don't cyber or discuss my private life within the first few minutes.

If you don't mind, Fury, I'm curious what bothers you about the whole MILF thing? (we can start another thread if necessary). I don't claim to understand the MILF fantasy whateveritis... I've been told I fall into the catagory, but the idea makes me laugh. I am utterly neutral about it- can't bring myself to get all excited or twitchy either way.

I find it somewhat (very) annoying when men presume things about me... I've developed the habit of responding to interruptions (IMs) by pointing out I don't cyber or discuss my private life within the first few minutes.

If you don't mind, Fury, I'm curious what bothers you about the whole MILF thing? (we can start another thread if necessary). I don't claim to understand the MILF fantasy whateveritis... I've been told I fall into the catagory, but the idea makes me laugh. I am utterly neutral about it- can't bring myself to get all excited or twitchy either way.[/QUOTE]

I no longer or at least hardly ever cyber. Though I discuss my life easily. I don't have time for those who simply want to cyber anymore.

At one time I burned for it as I now burn for other things. At the height of my addiction (last November) I actually suffered the shakes when away from my computer, it was comical and horrifying. I'm not sorry I did all that, though that fire did burn itself out without killing me eventually. It woke a lot of my sexuality back up and I am infinitely pleased as is my husband about that. I'm just over it for the most part.

I love to write good story with sex and violence in it but the whole intensity of just writing sex one on one isn't getting it for me now. So when some dude or dudette wants that I shut them down nicely but quickly in that area.

As for the MILF thing, I find what most young and mostly ignorant guys think a MILF is insulting. I think it's a hang up of mine. I never want to be or appear to be needy.

That's ludicrous I know since we all are from time to time in our own ways, it's part of being human.

Some of these guys give me the impression that they think MILF are so horny they need them or anyone. I don't like that. Worse are the ones who, given a chance emphasize the age difference in the writing of such a thing. As in, "Her wrinkled hand slid over his young,
tight, smooth ass." *shivers* That just creeps my out for some reason and yes I do have age issues.

Real life MILF's I happen to know, are rarely desperate. If they are not too busy and stressed out to think of sex at all, they have plenty of viable partners for fun activities and do not need a young man.

Now that being said, I am not against young men. They are lovely. Some of them are old souls with nice bodies I wouldn't mind running my wrinkled hand over. *chuckle* I just already happen to be occupied.

Being called a MILF is not a bad thing overall in my opinion. It just means they want to fuck you. I love that. I want to be desired.

Last but not least, Cutiemouse, you can't see that you are a MILF??? What the heck lady??You are cute and hot, get a mirror! You are the very definition of a MILF!

*winks*

Fury

 

[Shadowsdream]

I have no experience of sub-stealing in real life, but people have tried to make me change my mind when talking online.

It becomes tedious to rebuff people.

They simply look at my name and decide I am 'theirs'

I am upfront about being owned, I am clear that I don't web cam, cyber sex or have any form of play online.

Somehow it makes them all the more persistant. As if 'no' means 'you can persuade me'

I tell them I save all conversations and I send them to him, but again they try to persuade me to play.

I have had varied comments, including one person who asked why I even went online!

I cannot begin to imagine the pressure I would feel should I play or meet in real life. Its not a place I want to go.

Tying this thread into another one about 'taking a dominant woman,' perhaps people who attempt to sub steal get a 'one upmanship pleasure' from acting in this way.

Its an interesting topic, thank you Shadowsdream; I have read all the replies several times.

It appears that even in a world where we think we understand peoples kinks, there are people with a mean streak that manifests in ways that are simply cruel without explanation.

Sometimes online those posing as Dom/mes and sub/slaves really are in it for the POWER of over taking another. To WIN the battle of push and pull and once they do they become bored and move on to the next CONQUEST. Generally I have found more reality in real life as far as respect goes but not always..which of course is where this rant began...

 

[catalina_francisco]

Bump...

 

[Desdemona]

I miss Shadowsdream.

 

[FurryFury]

I miss Shadowsdream.

Me too!