For the unregistered Hooser posing as a christian

[Sandia]

Eccl. 9.10; yes, i had to look it up. I thought the words beautiful and wondered what poet wrote them.

Koheleth. Translated as "the Teacher." By tradition, it was Solomon, but that's almost certainly allegorical.

It's not clear what, if any, beliefs about the afterlife the ancient Hebrews had. There's virtually no mention of heaven in the OT, and their conception of hell, to the extent they had one, seems to have been borrowed from the Greeks. IMHO. It's not even clear (to me) that the historical Jesus believed in heaven. I think the "Kingdom of God" he talked about was something that was going to happen here on earth, not a place where people went after they died. It's part of his eschatological vision - that the world was about to end - soon, any moment - and that people had to prepare themselves for that. God's new order. It's a very powerful and beautiful vision. It's what the Branch Davidians believed, and what some Christians still believe today.

Welcome back, cym. Hope you had a wonderful time in, uh, America Town? (Sorry, I forgot the name!)
I went to see the fireworks down by Town Lake, the part of the river that runs through downtown Austin. They made me think of sex.

Sandia.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Todd?
I like you.

Cym, I like you to, well more than like, and a little bit less than lust/love.

I style myself agnostic, too, Sandia, but it's only because i have no other box to check that fits in any better manner.

I understand that completely Cym

To me, for me, being agnostic just means that i don't know what happens after a person dies. I do the best i can to be good and live with dignity and honesty here and now. Any afterlife i have coming my way, or another life, or eternal damnation cuz i'm not a [fill in your choice of the one true religion here] will have to wait until i'm actually dead to make itself known to me.

When I was an athiest I didn't believe anything would happen to me after I died, then I died {yes literally}, and that screwed everything up for me and life has never been the same.

I don't think god looks for the name of your religion to favor enterance into heaven my current pastor would fume if he heard me say that, but i don't think it makes it any less true}.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: Todd

Good stuff, and I feel like I know a little more about you than before, too. I liked that.

Thank you Harbinger, What I speak I try to in truth and humility from my heart, because as a professor in high school once told me in Law class, "becareful when you point your finger at somone because in doing so three are pointing back at you." Then He pointed at the wall and demostrated the postion of the hand. It has been something that has stuck with me for years, and has been so much truer to me once God/Bible came into my life.

I am glad I could open myself to you a bit more, feel free at any time to ask anything about me or my view on anything. I will answer truthfully as I can and in a form that should not offend the senses.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

God must be, I think, beyond the realm of human understanding. Nothing else makes sense. It would be a pretty lame God that I was able to comprehend. Or understand.

I would 100% agree with you on this, but I don't think it is beyond us to at least grasp at what he has revealed of himself, nor do I think it futile to try and gain that minimal amount of knowledge. I too Would think God a pretty puny God If I could wrap my mind's understanding around him.

Of course that doesn't mean God exists, merely that God cannot be disproved. That's the other side of being agnostic.

*nods head in agreement* I hear you again 100% and in essense agree {see I told you we would do that more often than not }

I respect your not being willing to pick and choose. In that way we're similar. I'm not willing to do it either.

I see no point in picking and choosing with my tiny mind, what if I make the wrong choices of what I pick or choose. That would really send me up a scred river with no paddles or evena boat for that matter.

I am, however, willing to wait and hope for the best. One more quote, from my favorite book:

I still hope and wait for the best. Why should I settle for anything less regardless of my belief.

Whatever your hand finds to do, do with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in the grave, where you are going.

I love this quote if I can take a picture and scan it I will show you what I made in my crafts a plaque of this verse. I think it looks cool.

If you want I could make one for you and send it, for free. I would consider it a priviledge for a friend.

Would you consider that thought?

and one more:
Of making many books there is no end, and much study is a weariness of the flesh. (sigh)

True, so very true.

Wear me out, God. I am ready.

Many morning I wake up and say that myself if you catch my meaning.

 

[SpectreT]

Re: Re: Todd-Man!

SpectreT Not all christians are religious, and not all religions are christians. Just something I like to keep in mind, the two terms are not the same. Keep on Keeping on SpectreT

Yep. I knew that one, though it was told to me in terms of coins and nickels, nickels and coins.

As I've said in another couple of threads, this world is part school house and part proving ground. We're all here to learn something, and to have our strength and will tested over and over and over again. We can and should help one another shoulder our burdens in this life, since everybody's load is too much for one person to bear.

When I was really nervous and depressed, a good friend of mine, and a coworker, sent me an e-mail reading: "G-d never hands you anything you can't hold." Reminded me of something I told another friend, when we had one of our really late-night walks and talks. I said to him; "Why pray for an end to your troubles, or for the strength to endure them? Who do you think sent those troubles? God knows your strength, buddy. He's just showing you what that strength is for. Besides, I'm always right here."

Just two pieces of philosophy that turned downed, beaten people around.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: Re: Re: Todd-Man!

Yep. I knew that one, though it was told to me in terms of coins and nickels, nickels and coins.

Yes I recall hearing that one as well one time, thank you for bringing it back to mind.

As I've said in another couple of threads, this world is part school house and part proving ground. We're all here to learn something, and to have our strength and will tested over and over and over again. We can and should help one another shoulder our burdens in this life, since everybody's load is too much for one person to bear.

So Very true. If we cared more about our 'brother'{being metaphysical here for a moment, cause obviously I not talking blood brother cause not all of us have one } there would be a lot less fighting and tears in this world and a lot more laughter and joy. Regardless of our location skin pigmentation, cultural background or anything when it's all said in doen, we are all human, flesh, blood and bone.

When I was really nervous and depressed, a good friend of mine, and a coworker, sent me an e-mail reading: "G-d never hands you anything you can't hold." Reminded me of something I told another friend, when we had one of our really late-night walks and talks. I said to him; "Why pray for an end to your troubles, or for the strength to endure them? Who do you think sent those troubles? God knows your strength, buddy. He's just showing you what that strength is for. Besides, I'm always right here."

That is a new quote to me but I like it and will apply it to my brains collection of cool true things to use and apply to conversation and life. thank you.

Just two pieces of philosophy that turned downed, beaten people around.

Awesome to hear that

 

[CarolineOh]

What a wonderful discussion this has been.
I was raised Roman Catholic. I still believe in the basic message of Christ's teaching, but have lost my faith in the ability of man made institutions to convey that message or shepard the flock.
To bring this discussion full circle I wonder if there is some connection between the comfort we receive from the rituals of religious service, and the more ritualized aspects of bdsm.

 

[Sandia]

Many morning I wake up and say that myself if you catch my meaning.

I'm not sure I do.

I'll share something with you: I think we were meant to burn; to burn brightly, to burn ourselves out. The image I have is each of us, climbing a ladder, a very tall ladder, to a diving board, where we jump. We jump because we have to; we have no choice. And while we're falling, we twist and shout, we look for a way out.

And it's beautiful. What we do while we're falling is beautiful. Each of us desperate, wanting, and hungry, and falling. Falling irresistably, inevitably. But wanting so much for it not to. Not for it to end. And what we do while we're falling - the grasping, the building, the destroying, the crying out, the history, the writing, the art - everything - it's beautiful.

How can I describe it? It's like a man going out to sweep back the ocean with a broom. How can you not admire that?
It's like going out to fight an army by yourself.

It's a battle you can't not fight; but you have to take pleasure in the here-now. 'Cause you ain't gonna win.

Go and eat your bread, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has long ago approved of what you do.


Anyway, I hope that made any sense at all.

As far as God's concerned, I guess I feel like I have to wait for God to reveal God's self to me, if God chooses to. I don't think I'm gonna find him out. And if he chooses not to reveal himself to me at all, I guess that's his perogative.

Nothing I've heard, felt or seen in life leads me to believe in God. Nothing besides desire. Desire's not enough. Not even close to enough. God does not need my belief.

I hope, but I do not pray.
I wish, but I do not believe.
I believe I'm alone in this, except for the people I find to go with me. And that's enough. I believe God, if there is a God, wants this from me. It's what I'm here for. I'm here to burn.

(sigh) Again, I hope that made sense.

Sandia.

 

[monster666]

Caroline, this is one of those questions that's been burning in my cranium for quite a while.

Although I've never thought of myself as being particularly big on ritual, except the holy ceremony of flooding the sacrimental catsup over the blessed hot dog. And to those sinners who would say that mustard is the true nectar of god, I say, repent and worship not false idols, for god knows your true heart, and it's all about the catsup.

What a wonderful discussion this has been.
I was raised Roman Catholic. I still believe in the basic message of Christ's teaching, but have lost my faith in the ability of man made institutions to convey that message or shepard the flock.
To bring this discussion full circle I wonder if there is some connection between the comfort we receive from the rituals of religious service, and the more ritualized aspects of bdsm.

 

[cymbidia]

I hope, but I do not pray.
I wish, but I do not believe.
I believe I'm alone in this, except for the people I find to go with me. And that's enough. I believe God, if there is a God, wants this from me. It's what I'm here for. I'm here to burn.

(sigh) Again, I hope that made sense.

It makes a beautiful, eloquent, poetic, dark kind of sense, Sandia, the kind of sense uttered by one unafraid of edges and ledges, of falling. But it looks as if it comes from a Christian perspective, for all you seem to repudiate that in your life.

In my life, i hope and i pray - but not in a way a Pencostal minister might recognize.

I wish and i believe, too - but not in one stern unforgiving (or loving laughing) God.

I believe the universe is filled with souls much like mine, those who seek and crave the warmth of touch with/for/by another like themselves.

And at the end of the day, all any of us really wants is a way to keep the deep long cold night at bay. Scary things reside in the deep of night, as every child knows, and all we really want is someone to hold to while we sleep, safe in the warmth of the living.

I believe if we all jump off those ladders you so vibrantly described, then we do it holding hands, and we jump into the welcoming cool of the lake below.

I believe in touch and love and truth and joy.
I don't know what will happen when i die but that's what i believe in while i live.

 

[Sandia]

I love falling.

 

[Sandia]

all any of us really wants is a way to keep the deep long cold night at bay

Speak for yourself.
I love nights. And I love being afraid. What I fear is nothing; being alone, and being no more. Feeling nothing is the most terrifying thing to me.

I find the universe is full of souls very much unlike my own, much to my chagrin. Or on the other hand, sometimes they seem too much like me.

I do hope you're right about the water, though. Twould be nice, to fall into a clear, cool lake.

Sandia.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Having rambled (at length) on the subject of my approach to religion in another thread, I won't do it here.

Todd: I've been outta town, hon. I'm not ignoring you. PM me, let me know what's up? Great posts; I agree with Harbinger--I feel like I know you a little better, as well as getting some interesting things to think about.

Caroline: I'm exhausted right now, but I *really* hope you'll aid me in bringing the convo back around to the ritual question you raised. I think it's an excellent one, and I've also wondered whether "we" (however you wish to define that) get similar kinds of spiritual gratification from BDSM rituals as from religous rituals. I warn you, however, that I will likely threaten everyone with a lengthy epistle on the matter, as I'm trying to answer the question for myself, which generates my most wordy posts. If you decline to come back to the issue, I'll understand. But, if you care to put forth your thoughts, I'd be very interested to read them.

Sandhia: Please elaborate, if you're willing. Do you fear annihlation at death, and thus hope for an afterlife? Or do you have faith in some kind of Divinity, but have doubts and thus consider yourself damned? (Which I imagine would be something further complicated by your BDSM desires.) I don't mean to pry, I'm just interested but unclear.

You are all groovilicious.
I was so bummed after reading the deletion fallout; this thread helps marvelous much. Thanks for that, everybody.

Any chance I can get a hug? It was one HELL of a weekend.

No pun intended.

 

[WillowPuss]

Any chance I can get a hug? It was one HELL of a weekend.

Sure thing

((((((((((((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))))))))))))


better?

 

[Sandia]

Having rambled (at length) on the subject of my approach to religion in another thread, I won't do it here.

Todd: I've been outta town, hon. I'm not ignoring you. PM me, let me know what's up? Great posts; I agree with Harbinger--I feel like I know you a little better, as well as getting some interesting things to think about.

Caroline: I'm exhausted right now, but I *really* hope you'll aid me in bringing the convo back around to the ritual question you raised. I think it's an excellent one, and I've also wondered whether "we" (however you wish to define that) get similar kinds of spiritual gratification from BDSM rituals as from religous rituals. I warn you, however, that I will likely threaten everyone with a lengthy epistle on the matter, as I'm trying to answer the question for myself, which generates my most wordy posts. If you decline to come back to the issue, I'll understand. But, if you care to put forth your thoughts, I'd be very interested to read them.

Sandhia: Please elaborate, if you're willing. Do you fear annihlation at death, and thus hope for an afterlife? Or do you have faith in some kind of Divinity, but have doubts and thus consider yourself damned? (Which I imagine would be something further complicated by your BDSM desires.) I don't mean to pry, I'm just interested but unclear.

You are all groovilicious.
I was so bummed after reading the deletion fallout; this thread helps marvelous much. Thanks for that, everybody.

Any chance I can get a hug? It was one HELL of a weekend.

No pun intended.

RS,
I said it on the other thread, but I'll say it here as well. I respected you more after the whole KM thing, not less. (And that's saying somethin!)

And, if you're willin, I offer a hug as well.

***
I interrupt this post to say something I've wanted to say: Didja notice I threw my naked body between KM & well, whoever she was fighting with at the time? Ok, it wasn't that much of a sacrifice, but still.

***
Post continued: Thank you for asking. I was hoping Todd would come back, but I fear I may have driven him off with my late-night ramblings.

I fear annihilation after death. I have no faith, but as a religious-minded person, I admit I sometimes sound as if I do.

I have so little faith, in fact, that unlike most folks here, I welcome what few twinges of guilt remain when it comes to sex. Guilt always makes sex so much better, don't you think?

I am very curious about the ritualistic side to BDSM and sex.
It's something I know next to nothing about, so I'm hoping y'all will talk about it here.

Sandia.

 

[Sandia]

RS? I'd also like to hear about your weekend, if you'd be willing to share.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Willow & Sandhia--thanks for the hugs, they're much appreciated. I may elaborate on the complicated and confusing mixture of experiences that was my weekend, but if so it will come at some point in the future, when my feelings about it are more resolved.

Sandhia, thanks for the clarification. I'm still hopeful that Caroline will open the conversation about ritual and BDSM, but if she doesn't, then I will--just at a time other than 4am. However, having been away from my spouse for the majority of the last week, that's the only time I have right now, as we're deep in the midst of catching-up sex. Tomorrow, perhaps?

 

[CarolineOh]

Willow & Sandhia--thanks for the hugs, they're much appreciated. I may elaborate on the complicated and confusing mixture of experiences that was my weekend, but if so it will come at some point in the future, when my feelings about it are more resolved.

Sandhia, thanks for the clarification. I'm still hopeful that Caroline will open the conversation about ritual and BDSM, but if she doesn't, then I will--just at a time other than 4am. However, having been away from my spouse for the majority of the last week, that's the only time I have right now, as we're deep in the midst of catching-up sex. Tomorrow, perhaps?

I will start one, Risia. I thought I would wait a day or two, because it seems like threads drop off so much faster on the weekend. But it's a fascinating subject, and I am eager to read your thoughts, so I will go ahead and start it.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

What a wonderful discussion this has been.
I was raised Roman Catholic. I still believe in the basic message of Christ's teaching, but have lost my faith in the ability of man made institutions to convey that message or shepard the flock.
To bring this discussion full circle I wonder if there is some connection between the comfort we receive from the rituals of religious service, and the more ritualized aspects of bdsm.

Thank you for you input and praise of how well we behvaed ourselves, I was going to comment on it myself but I did not want to jinx anything , if'n you knows what I mean.

I understand the lose of faith in the man made machine called religion, it is very sdecptive and very self serving, it is better if one can garner thier faith from , to and in God himself, that is if one believes in a God.

That might be a very interesting discussion CarolineOh.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Having rambled (at length) on the subject of my approach to religion in another thread, I won't do it here.

Todd: I've been outta town, hon. I'm not ignoring you. PM me, let me know what's up? Great posts; I agree with Harbinger--I feel like I know you a little better, as well as getting some interesting things to think about.

Any chance I can get a hug? It was one HELL of a weekend.

Ah, come on you know ya wanna?

I am glad you got to know me a bit better, and that I gave you some3thing a bit to think about.

{{{RisiaSkye}}}

 

[CarolineOh]

Thank you for you input and praise of how well we behvaed ourselves, I was going to comment on it myself but I did not want to jinx anything , if'n you knows what I mean.

I understand the lose of faith in the man made machine called religion, it is very sdecptive and very self serving, it is better if one can garner thier faith from , to and in God himself, that is if one believes in a God.

That might be a very interesting discussion CarolineOh.

Thank you Todd. I hope you will join in on this threadhttp://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95600
I would love to read your thoughts on the subject.