For women not into cuckolding…

[Yarglenurp]

Do you believe this is changing, however slowly? Seems like there's an article/story about ENM or polyamory every other day. (I know, I know--what am I reading?!)

I think that’s more a reflection of you and smart algorithms than anything else.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

 

[Erosfan]

This is an interesting conversation. I have been into CFNM for a very long time. No humiliation, no cuckolding. My wife worked with me and my fantasies along this line and we had some amazing experiences.
Neither of us was into sharing each other.
I see this as a loving relationship where I can let go of my day to day life at work and let her take the lead. We talked about possible scenarios where we could both enjoy this fantasy.
She would suggest who she would like to invite to see my sub side and her control of me. She once said her aunt would be willing to participate. She always said, "I just don't think I can go through with it".
We played many different scenarios over the years. She had me naked many times where we could have been seen and might have been. I loved her hand jobs when I was driving on a busy highway. After the first time, I asked her if she thought we were seen. She said, we were definitely seen.
This came about because I told her, she could do anything with me or to me, anywhere, any time she wanted and I would do anything she wanted. She called me "her slut" and we both loved it.

 

[policywank]

Do you believe this is changing, however slowly? Seems like there's an article/story about ENM or polyamory every other day. (I know, I know--what am I reading?!)

Perhaps a little bit. Very slowly. But I think that to really change attitudes we often require a critical mass of people to demand acceptance.

This may be taking the point too far, but I am not sure that society has become enlightened over time as much as we might like to believe. We change our biases and bigotries, but we still have them. We as a society just decide which groups to accept that were previously excluded and which to exclude that were previously accepted. Meanwhile we vilify the biases and bigotries of the excluded groups and turn a blind eye to it among the accepted groups.

But that transition from excluded to accepted usually requires that the group demanding acceptance be able to prove that they have been legitimately oppressed and/or persecuted.

I don't think that those of us in alternative lifestyles really fit that profile. We are simply judged sort of like the way sex workers or promiscuous women are judged. Changing that requires getting to the heart of not only moral assumptions but also the insecurities of a lot of people. So there is a lot of resistance. I can make the case that it is just a personal choice and not any of anybody else's business. But reality is that changes in sexual attitudes have major implications for all people in society.

 

[screwher]

I can’t help but feel most married women would jump at the chance to have sex with other men with her husband’s approval. And those that wouldnt are apprehensive because they’re thinking this is her husband’s way to be able to sleep with other women.

 

[policywank]

I can’t help but feel most married women would jump at the chance to have sex with other men with her husband’s approval. And those that wouldnt are apprehensive because they’re thinking this is her husband’s way to be able to sleep with other women.

A lot would. But many do have traditional views of sex and monogamy. And especially if those views are rooted in religion they won't permit themselves to consider that to be acceptable. Even if they have that desire deep down they won't admit it even to themselves.

 

[Thomas_Hardy]

This is all a very nice dinner party conversation, with a bit of philosophy (reductionsim?) and anecdotal sprinkled in, but ultimately a fantastic version of topping from the bottom, very aptly summarised in the first sentence:

I think this is very much about what the man wants, so I don’t think you have to worry about it. If you’re not into it, you’d be at about as much risk of involvement in it as a hyena is at risk of winning best climber at a cat show.

What's new about this kind of masculinity that seeks to impose its gaze on women who take a different view, show up in this thread to answer to its theme, and are not even properly listened to? All in the name of diversity?

Dear diary, today lit disappointed me, a bit.

 

[Yarglenurp]

This is all a very nice dinner party conversation, with a bit of philosophy (reductionsim?) and anecdotal sprinkled in, but ultimately a fantastic version of topping from the bottom, very aptly summarised in the first sentence:


What's new about this kind of masculinity that seeks to impose its gaze on women who take a different view, show up in this thread to answer to its theme, and are not even properly listened to? All in the name of diversity?

Dear diary, today lit disappointed me, a bit.

… the heck kind of dinner parties you go to?

 

[UtilityCurve]

… the heck kind of dinner parties you go to?

I know, I'm jealous too.

 

[Thomas_Hardy]

… the heck kind of dinner parties you go to?

lol, close friends' ones, admittedly but they suffer a bit from too much theory not enough practice

 

[Lucy_Lastic]

I feel like that’s a bit reductive?

labels are reductive.

The number of men fantasising about being cucked vs the number actually enjoying that kind of relationship suggests I'm right.

I'm not interested in marriage right now and I don't know what kind of relationship I'd look for, maybe swinging/enm or poly maybe, but I'd get all that out in the open with a prospective partner before we moved into a serious relationship. If a guy told me he'd just love to stay at home and wank while I went out and fucked around, I don't think I'd progress beyond that point. It doesn't interest me. I would like to think I'd retain the right to fuck around, but in an equal partnership.

 

[policywank]

I think that many hotwife/cuckold relationships went through a phase of some other form of reciprocal ethical non-monogamy before landing on this version. That is what happened with us. I cheated then confessed immediately. After we patched things up we decided to try an open relationship. I had abundant opportunities for exciting and varied sex and it didn't really work out that way for him. Not surprisingly, he did not find women all that receptive and those that were he found to be a less exciting sexual experience than what we had.

The tipping point was one evening when we both had dates. His cancelled. I went out on my date, had sex with him, but made sure to get home while my husband was likely to still be awake. He was and we had amazing sex. The next day he told me that the previous night had actually been better because his date cancelled. He stayed in and watched the hockey game, which he preferred to do alone. I am not one to give him a hard time about ignoring me and watching the game, but he is a very caring man who would normally feel guilty about that. So, me not being there - and out indulging my own desires - allowed him to indulge himself guilt free. And he still got the sex that he desired, which in his view was superior to trying to work his way into some other woman's pants.

If I hadn't known he would be at home I might have come home later or not at all. I had no thought of compelling him to wait for me. But knowing he was did induce me to get home and hook-up with him.

He concluded that the opportunity to be with other women was not particularly valuable to him, given the opportunities that were available to him.

By formally agreeing that he wouldn't see other women he wasn't really giving up anything. But it did allow me to offer up my commitment to make extra sure that I took care of all his sexual needs as a sort of quid pro quo for him being exclusive to me. I know that sounds transactional but I don't see it that way. The natural way forward was for me to continue to have sex with other men but for him to be exclusive to me, because that is what was working for both of us. But society sort of tells men that in this situation they should "keep up" so to speak. He didn't want to do that. Nor could he have even if he wanted to. By creating that trade-off we took him out of the zone of potentially feeling like he is losing or "lesser" out into a space where we were each doing something to support one another's preferred course of action.

Well after that was established we did start to dabble in the fetish side of things. And eventually did much more than dabble. But at the core remains the premise that in return for not demanding I cease ENM because it wasn't working out for him, I indulge virtually all of his sexual desires. The fact that those have turned more to the kinky side is beside the point.

 

[Thomas_Hardy]

Thanks for sharing. I have seen this pattern develop among our friends, where the M or F of a couple has license , and have come across it as very much a non-kink related way of managing different needs and desires among a trusting and caring couple. It does not always last as a stable relationship, but then, that happens across the board anyway.

And in this way, these kinds of relationship follow a very long established way of living one's sexuality in a narriage context. Marriage for love is a relatively recent thing, and it's not just the French kings and queens who built their palaces such that both had their respective palace wings to meet up or even live with their lovers. I was amazed when I found out how central upper middle class courtesans were to 19th and early 20th century British life of the well off.

 

[policywank]

Thanks for sharing. I have seen this pattern develop among our friends, where the M or F of a couple has license , and have come across it as very much a non-kink related way of managing different needs and desires among a trusting and caring couple. It does not always last as a stable relationship, but then, that happens across the board anyway.

And in this way, these kinds of relationship follow a very long established way of living one's sexuality in a narriage context. Marriage for love is a relatively recent thing, and it's not just the French kings and queens who built their palaces such that both had their respective palace wings to meet up or even live with their lovers. I was amazed when I found out how central upper middle class courtesans were to 19th and early 20th century British life of the well off.

If we dispense with the fallacy that women are somehow more wired to monogamy than men then and consider the prospect of sex for pleasure rather than procreation things look very different.

Reality is that the female orgasm is more complex and elusive than the male orgasm. In that sense exploration, experience and variety are more important to a woman's pursuit of pleasure than a man's. Meanwhile in our world as it exists today women have more opportunities for sexual dalliances on their terms, so what is available to us is often more appealing that what is available to men. At that generalized level there is a case to be made that women will gain more from (and may even be are better suited to) ENM than men.

The license reference is useful. If both partners have a license that doesn't mean that both will use that license in the same way or with the same frequency. Feeling compelled to use it as much as your partner or restricting them from using it more than you doesn't make a lot of sense. Nor does it make sense to be disparaging towards one's spouse for not wanting to use their license or to take most satisfaction from facilitating the other.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I thought this an interesting question so I posed it to Mrs. Royale about five minutes ago.

Me - Babe, so what would be your response if I told you that I wanted you to sleep with other men?
Mrs. Royale - You mean, make you a willing cuckold?"
Me - Yeah.
Mrs Royale - (looks thoughtful for about ten seconds) Well, I'd have fucked just as many men as I wanted, until I found a better man, and then dumped your ass.
Me - Really?
Mrs. Royale - Yeah, because I would see that as weakness. I would see that as you not being strong enough or self-confident enough to be the man I want and need.

Not looking to start an argument, those are her words. I'll admit to be puzzled by men that are into this, but to each his/her own, right? We've been together for 32 years so I must be doing something correctly.

 

[Yarglenurp]

If we dispense with the fallacy that women are somehow more wired to monogamy than men then and consider the prospect of sex for pleasure rather than procreation things look very different.

Reality is that the female orgasm is more complex and elusive than the male orgasm. In that sense exploration, experience and variety are more important to a woman's pursuit of pleasure than a man's. Meanwhile in our world as it exists today women have more opportunities for sexual dalliances on their terms, so what is available to us is often more appealing that what is available to men. At that generalized level there is a case to be made that women will gain more from (and may even be are better suited to) ENM than men.

The license reference is useful. If both partners have a license that doesn't mean that both will use that license in the same way or with the same frequency. Feeling compelled to use it as much as your partner or restricting them from using it more than you doesn't make a lot of sense. Nor does it make sense to be disparaging towards one's spouse for not wanting to use their license or to take most satisfaction from facilitating the other.

I think this is more an instance of where you and your husband stand on this matter, than as a broadly applicable example.

I thought this an interesting question so I posed it to Mrs. Royale about five minutes ago.

Me - Babe, so what would be your response if I told you that I wanted you to sleep with other men?
Mrs. Royale - You mean, make you a willing cuckold?"
Me - Yeah.
Mrs Royale - (looks thoughtful for about ten seconds) Well, I'd have fucked just as many men as I wanted, until I found a better man, and then dumped your ass.
Me - Really?
Mrs. Royale - Yeah, because I would see that as weakness. I would see that as you not being strong enough or self-confident enough to be the man I want and need.

Not looking to start an argument, those are her words. I'll admit to be puzzled by men that are into this, but to each his/her own, right? We've been together for 32 years so I must be doing something correctly.

Yeah, this seems more like what I’ve experienced.

 

[policywank]

I think this is more an instance of where you and your husband stand on this matter, than as a broadly applicable example.



Yeah, this seems more like what I’ve experienced.

I don't think I would ever want to represent what anybody other than I feel. But I do think that there are some dynamics in gender relations that have evolved over time at a general level even if we do all see it differently .

 

[Yarglenurp]

I don't think I would ever want to represent what anybody other than I feel. But I do think that there are some dynamics in gender relations that have evolved over time at a general level even if we do all see it differently .

Oh, I totally agree with you. I honestly wish that more men and women thought about things the way you and your husband do.

I just recognize that, collectively, our modern society is closer to burning women to death for witchery than embracing a utopian dreamworld where every can happily get along.

 

[policywank]

Oh, I totally agree with you. I honestly wish that more men and women thought about things the way you and your husband do.

I just recognize that, collectively, our modern society is closer to burning women to death for witchery than embracing a utopian dreamworld where every can happily get along.

I suppose there has always been some of that, but I think that the genuine loss of ability to control women (although not total loss) is part of what makes people adopt the "burn the bitch" attitude. People who are put off by an openly sexual woman are upset about their inability to control her as much as any perceived sins.

 

[UtilityCurve]

I think that many hotwife/cuckold relationships went through a phase of some other form of reciprocal ethical non-monogamy before landing on this version. That is what happened with us. I cheated then confessed immediately. After we patched things up we decided to try an open relationship. I had abundant opportunities for exciting and varied sex and it didn't really work out that way for him. Not surprisingly, he did not find women all that receptive and those that were he found to be a less exciting sexual experience than what we had.

The tipping point was one evening when we both had dates. His cancelled. I went out on my date, had sex with him, but made sure to get home while my husband was likely to still be awake. He was and we had amazing sex. The next day he told me that the previous night had actually been better because his date cancelled. He stayed in and watched the hockey game, which he preferred to do alone. I am not one to give him a hard time about ignoring me and watching the game, but he is a very caring man who would normally feel guilty about that. So, me not being there - and out indulging my own desires - allowed him to indulge himself guilt free. And he still got the sex that he desired, which in his view was superior to trying to work his way into some other woman's pants.

If I hadn't known he would be at home I might have come home later or not at all. I had no thought of compelling him to wait for me. But knowing he was did induce me to get home and hook-up with him.

He concluded that the opportunity to be with other women was not particularly valuable to him, given the opportunities that were available to him.

By formally agreeing that he wouldn't see other women he wasn't really giving up anything. But it did allow me to offer up my commitment to make extra sure that I took care of all his sexual needs as a sort of quid pro quo for him being exclusive to me. I know that sounds transactional but I don't see it that way. The natural way forward was for me to continue to have sex with other men but for him to be exclusive to me, because that is what was working for both of us. But society sort of tells men that in this situation they should "keep up" so to speak. He didn't want to do that. Nor could he have even if he wanted to. By creating that trade-off we took him out of the zone of potentially feeling like he is losing or "lesser" out into a space where we were each doing something to support one another's preferred course of action.

Well after that was established we did start to dabble in the fetish side of things. And eventually did much more than dabble. But at the core remains the premise that in return for not demanding I cease ENM because it wasn't working out for him, I indulge virtually all of his sexual desires. The fact that those have turned more to the kinky side is beside the point.

This is so full of thoughtfulness and respect that it sticks out like a sore thumb on the Internet. TY.

 

[KentLondon]

If we dispense with the fallacy that women are somehow more wired to monogamy than men then and consider the prospect of sex for pleasure rather than procreation things look very different.

Reality is that the female orgasm is more complex and elusive than the male orgasm. In that sense exploration, experience and variety are more important to a woman's pursuit of pleasure than a man's. Meanwhile in our world as it exists today women have more opportunities for sexual dalliances on their terms, so what is available to us is often more appealing that what is available to men. At that generalized level there is a case to be made that women will gain more from (and may even be are better suited to) ENM than men.

The license reference is useful. If both partners have a license that doesn't mean that both will use that license in the same way or with the same frequency. Feeling compelled to use it as much as your partner or restricting them from using it more than you doesn't make a lot of sense. Nor does it make sense to be disparaging towards one's spouse for not wanting to use their license or to take most satisfaction from facilitating the other.

Always appreciate your intelligent and thoughtful posts.