Founders and Framers on the People's Natural Right to Keep and Bear Arms

[BotanyBoy]

In fairness we won't know until this shakes down but I think an armed Ukraine could have accomplished pissing off the Russians. So far though people seem to mostly be getting along. I mean seirously an invasion where the the invadee is bringing out bottles of water? Someone if very confused and I think it's me.

Military politics....putin is trying to win hearts and minds, just like us when we gave Iraqi's water/food.

But then someone some day is going to get sick and fuckin' tired of Russian troops acting like asshole clowns harassing their sister/mom/gf/wife and pop one of the fuckers. THEN it will be on b/c then Putin has a reason...he was being nice...now they are defending themselves by leveling the whole village. And we can't say a fucking thing about it b/c we did the exact same thing to a 110% foreign nation....Russia can claim they are just trying to pick up the pieces again, just like the US did.

So....as you can see there is a quite a few roads this can take but none of them are particularly savory for the Ukrainians, Russians and if we jump in...deff not us.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I must have been in a different Iraqi War cus I think we started with bullets. . .and they didn't greet us with hugs. They mostly put down their guns and politely backed away. This is odd. Neat, but odd.

We'll see how long it takes for someone to do something stupid or if Putin will back down.

 

[Phelia]

It does too cunt. Read her line of shit. Then read line 11, questions h& i.
http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

So, just to clarify, you are dismissing her list of requirements for gun legislation on the basis that one of them is already legislation?

This is very enlightening, in a way. I used to look at the warning labels on appliances in bemusement. "Do not dry hair while sleeping." I used to try and picture the person idiotic enough to necessitate a caution like that in the first place. Surely people that clueless and incompetent couldn't possibly exist in the real world.

Well. Now I know.

 

[Sean Renaud]

So, just to clarify, you are dismissing her list of requirements for gun legislation on the basis that one of them is already legislation?

This is very enlightening, in a way. I used to look at the warning labels on appliances in bemusement. "Do not dry hair while sleeping." I used to try and picture the person idiotic enough to necessitate a caution like that in the first place. Surely people that clueless and incompetent couldn't possibly exist in the real world.

Well. Now I know.

Honestly I'm more impressed that someone has the talent to try that.

 

[bronzeage]

That's politispeak for got our conventional ass's whipped by a bunch of 3rd world guerrilla fighters. They were so good we still teach a lot of their techniques out at JFK SWCS Ft.Bragg to this very day.

....

No, we beat the third world guerrilla fighters. After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were no longer a viable fighting force. From that point forward the was a conventional boots and tanks battle.

The defeat of the Viet Cong and the need for the NVA to regroup after Tet gave Richard Nixon the maneuvering room to negotiate a settlement behind the back of the South Vietnamese, which allowed the US to withdraw without interference and a return of all US prisoners.

 

[koalabear]

So, just to clarify, you are dismissing her list of requirements for gun legislation on the basis that one of them is already legislation?

This is very enlightening, in a way. I used to look at the warning labels on appliances in bemusement. "Do not dry hair while sleeping." I used to try and picture the person idiotic enough to necessitate a caution like that in the first place. Surely people that clueless and incompetent couldn't possibly exist in the real world.

Well. Now I know.

She has a bullet in her head to blame her ignorance on, you don't.

 

[Phelia]

She has a bullet in her head to blame her ignorance on, you don't.

That's nice, but being a disgusting person isn't going to distract anyone from the fact that you couldn't make a point with a pencil sharpener and have the critical reasoning abilities of a cotton ball

 

[koalabear]

That's nice, but being a disgusting person isn't going to distract anyone from the fact that you couldn't make a point with a pencil sharpener and have the critical reasoning abilities of a cotton ball

Don't bet on it. You can sharpen swords with cotton balls.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I must have been in a different Iraqi War cus I think we started with bullets. . .and they didn't greet us with hugs. They mostly put down their guns and politely backed away. This is odd. Neat, but odd.

OIF 1 yea...after Jr. declared "Mission Accomplished" it turned into a giant political circle jerk military occupation to win the hearts and minds of the people...FAIL. Kiss baby's, shake hands, don't shoot back until exactly 50% of your unit is dead, THEN you're allowed to call up and get approval from senator bleeding heart fuck wad to shoot back because we wouldn't want to hurt the poor, loving, open hearted Iraqi people. Bunch of fucking wankers, and with regard to OIF/OEF I point that finger right the fuck at the left wing too....bunch of fucking pussies are born fucking losers couldn't win a checkers game if they tried.

Didn't even get any fucking oil out of it...wtf man, they should be paying us off protection oil and slave labor just to keep us from killing every fucking one of them until the wells run dry.

Instead we get nothing but a epic bill for the US of A and 4 bucks a gallon...lame...fuckin' NO-GO.

We'll see how long it takes for someone to do something stupid or if Putin will back down.

Shouldn't take too long for the former...later is a crap shoot imo and totally dependent on the type of stupid that occurs.

No, we beat the third world guerrilla fighters. After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were no longer a viable fighting force. From that point forward the was a conventional boots and tanks battle.

The defeat of the Viet Cong and the need for the NVA to regroup after Tet gave Richard Nixon the maneuvering room to negotiate a settlement behind the back of the South Vietnamese, which allowed the US to withdraw without interference and a return of all US prisoners.

So you're saying we kicked the shit out of them for 10 years and then gave them the game at the 5 yard line when we had them by the balls? Left with our tails tucked and not a fucking thing to show for it?

Right.

But then again we did the same thing again in Iraq and prob the same in Afghanistan so you're probably right about nixon and the politics. But on the war front and the casualty/wounded stats....the outcome was a bitter stale mate at best and we had WAY more assets/people on our side. They were at a 1.1 million man, not to mention a fairly steep economic and technological disadvantage and after 18 years of beating they owned it. So did we really beat them? idk man....

The total score.

Strength:

Us and our allies:~1,830,000

Them: ~781,000

Casualties/wounded

Us:

Total dead: 480,538
Total wounded: 1,490,000

Them:

Total dead: 455,462
Total wounded: 608,200

All things considered I'm still going to have to chalk that one up as a loss....all the way NO-GO's, red ink everywhere.

But it wasn't a waste...like I said we learned a LOT of painful lessons during that time. Lessons that have contributed to making our fighting forces vastly improved as far as tactics/equipment/training etc. Shit I would be dead as fuck if it weren't for new body armor developed as a result of inadequate gear in Vietnam.

 

[Phelia]

Don't bet on it. You can sharpen swords with cotton balls.

This is an amazing response. In one fell swoop, you have taken the liberty of reiterating your inability to parse plain English AND you've explained why my cotton balls list "honing the blades of your various weaponry" amongst their suggested uses. That always struck me as curious.

Eyer! Help! What did the founding fathers have to say about cotton balls??? It is our god-given right to wield them in self-defense and FUCK any lily-livered politician that tries to tell me otherwise!

 

[Phelia]

On the other hand, I obviously recognize the need to regulate the use and sale of these dangerous objects.

 

[islandman]

All this talk of cotton balls and their uses is starting to remind me of the 'Girl Talk' thread.

 

[Phelia]

All this talk of cotton balls and their uses is starting to remind me of the 'Girl Talk' thread.

Great point! Synergy. We are not so different after all! I use maxi pads to polish my guns.

 

[Phelia]

And if I tie two tampons together, it's like they're wee, absorbent nunchaku!!

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Great point! Synergy. We are not so different after all! I use maxi pads to polish my guns.

And if I tie two tampons together, it's like they're wee, absorbent nunchaku!!

Any more references to feminine hygiene products and you'll chase out all the red-blooded, cock-swangin', gun-totin' he-men in this a-here thread, Mizzuz Phelia.

You knows all that bleedin' from them thar unmentionable parts of your'n is bad juju for the testicular ways of menfolk!

 

[Sean Renaud]

Okay, it's official. I shall make certain I don't piss of Crazy Pony. I never new purses were filled with so many implements of death and destruction.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Tampons are a must-have for your bug-out bag. They make it really easy to light a fire.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Dunce.

Try this one out, and remember, "language is the law":

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Idiot.

Stew in your ignorance.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Idiot.

Stew in your ignorance.

Such a compelling argument.
You sound like Ishmael.

Congrats?

 

[islandman]

Idiot.

Stew in your ignorance.

If by "ignorance" you mean that I don't share your penchant for slicing and dicing up the Constitution to fit whatever asinine narrative you're trying to support....

...well, then, sign me up, Buttercup!

 

[Phelia]

Any more references to feminine hygiene products and you'll chase out all the red-blooded, cock-swangin', gun-totin' he-men in this a-here thread, Mizzuz Phelia.

You knows all that bleedin' from them thar unmentionable parts of your'n is bad juju for the testicular ways of menfolk!

Well, thankfully I can't post in any of his threads when I'm actually on my period because I am sapped of all strength and rendered completely immobile. That is why women should not be allowed in places like the military or math classes.

Not to mention it attracts sharks.

Okay, it's official. I shall make certain I don't piss of Crazy Pony. I never new purses were filled with so many implements of death and destruction.

You have herd immunity

Which is lucky for you because you do NOT want to end up on the wrong side of the IED I can build with q-tips and bobby pins.

Tampons are a must-have for your bug-out bag. They make it really easy to light a fire.

I can't tell you how comforting it is to find out that the object I bury deep within my reproductive organs is conveniently flammable.

 

[Byron In Exile]

Such a compelling argument.
You sound like Ishmael.

Congrats?

It's as compelling as his.

I'm not being paid to educate morons.

 

[JohnnySavage]

I can't tell you how comforting it is to find out that the object I bury deep within my reproductive organs is conveniently flammable.

You should take them out first.

 

[patient1]

Comparing a torch to the bombs we have today is something like comparing a bow and arrow to an ICBM. You are right, cities had been destroyed by torch and spontaneously caught fire we well. Unless you count Roanoke cities rarely (never to my knowledge but I'm sure someone can come up with an example) simply cease to be and you don't even really need nukes though they are nice. And on the subject of nukes yes you can salt the earth to make some place uninhabitable. . .I don't think that's actually comparible to radiation. Like wise the plan to blow up Parliment was a long drawn out one, it wasn't carried out by a small group of people rapidly. If four guys with horses were a legit threat to the White House the way four guys in Jets or Helicoptors would be today. . .(and that's the White House, not random street.)

The rest of that is well stated but most goes to show that for all his wisdom he didn't see the future. Central banks are an absolute necessity to the modern world. You can't not have them. There are certainly things worse than debt, like not having the things you pay for with the debt. None of this is meant to be an insult to him (and he's just one of many Founders) but just observation. And again ultimately it's nice to know what he thought and why but that's not reason enough alone why we should do something.

Who knows if he would have put more or fewer checks in place. It's hard to tell and frankly right now in history is a poor example. The last five have been crazy but lets say the last fifteen years we've made a decent case that that the lack of tools to compel Congress might have been a major oversight. That however is a worthwhile conversation to have as well.

Thanks. It's refreshing to see that there are still two people at Lit who can disagree without getting personal.

You're right. Nothing compares to WMDs.
They probably deserve an amendment of their own.

I doubt if they imagined 300 million people. They did imagine that the constitution would need to be amended.

Switzerland seems to get along very well with a banking establishment, an armed citizenry, and a militia. Their murder rate is very low. I guess we can't blame the banks for everything.

 

[Byron In Exile]

If by "ignorance" you mean that I don't share your penchant for slicing and dicing up the Constitution to fit whatever asinine narrative you're trying to support....

...well, then, sign me up, Buttercup!

No, by "ignorance" I simply mean your ignorance.

See how easy it is when you just read what's written?