Frustrated Editor

[_Lynn_]

Nahh, you were just your loveable self.

So true.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... I just sent a story back to someone that I didn't finish editing. I found myself re-writing more than I should have. ...

I try never to re-write anything. Occasionally I offer a better worded sentence, at the level of:

Original: He was hitting the man with his mother.
Suggestion: He and his mother were hitting the man.
Explanation:: He is not using his mother as a weapon to hit the man.

Sometimes I suggest re-punctuating to make a paragraph read batter:

Original: He opened the door. He went in. He saw the table. There was food on it.
Suggestion: He opened the door and went into the room, where there was food on the table.
Explanation:: Reads more smoothly.

Further than that with a "rewrite" I would not dream of going. Even the suggested paragraph change would only be in the notes, not inline. Also I would only suggest the changes for one example and then add that other paragraphs need the same treatment.

This attitude is because I don't want to write the story myself, only to help the author do it a little better.

 

[_Lynn_]

I try never to re-write anything. Occasionally I offer a better worded sentence, at the level of:

Original: He was hitting the man with his mother.
Suggestion: He and his mother were hitting the man.
Explanation:: He is not using his mother as a weapon to hit the man.

Sometimes I suggest re-punctuating to make a paragraph read batter:

Original: He opened the door. He went in. He saw the table. There was food on it.
Suggestion: He opened the door and went into the room, where there was food on the table.
Explanation:: Reads more smoothly.

Further than that with a "rewrite" I would not dream of going. Even the suggested paragraph change would only be in the notes, not inline. Also I would only suggest the changes for one example and then add that other paragraphs need the same treatment.

This attitude is because I don't want to write the story myself, only to help the author do it a little better.

I work the same way by offering suggestions to improve their words. I've noted sequence errors that needed to be either deleted or put in the proper order and blended into the story. Sentence structure for smoother reading makes sense. Correcting spelling, punctuation, etc is fine. 'Rewriting' an authors work is not what I'm about.

 

[LadyCibelle]

I'm thinking the mistake that led to the debacle inspiring this thread is the use of Tracking Changes. I only recently learned about it as other editors told me they used it, so I figured "why not?". And I mentioned to the writer that I was doing this, but it's a feature that can be turned on and off. I think therein lies the problem. I have since stopped using it since this failed effort.

That's funny that you had so many problems with Track Change as it's the only thing I use. I swear by it, it's clear, concise and so easy to use and see the changes. All my writers (well, the ones who use Word) know that everything will come back to them with track changes.

I've never had any complaints, just praise for the way it's working. Maybe your 'problems' stem from the fact that those writers didn't know how to use it?

 

[_Lynn_]

That's funny that you had so many problems with Track Change as it's the only thing I use. I swear by it, it's clear, concise and so easy to use and see the changes. All my writers (well, the ones who use Word) know that everything will come back to them with track changes.

I've never had any complaints, just praise for the way it's working. Maybe your 'problems' stem from the fact that those writers didn't know how to use it?

Did you read my mind?

 

[michchick98]

I try never to re-write anything. Occasionally I offer a better worded sentence, at the level of:

Original: He was hitting the man with his mother.
Suggestion: He and his mother were hitting the man.
Explanation:: He is not using his mother as a weapon to hit the man.

Sometimes I suggest re-punctuating to make a paragraph read batter:

Original: He opened the door. He went in. He saw the table. There was food on it.
Suggestion: He opened the door and went into the room, where there was food on the table.
Explanation:: Reads more smoothly.

Further than that with a "rewrite" I would not dream of going. Even the suggested paragraph change would only be in the notes, not inline. Also I would only suggest the changes for one example and then add that other paragraphs need the same treatment.

This attitude is because I don't want to write the story myself, only to help the author do it a little better.

That's essentially what I do...reword things, but the one story I just sent back had so much reworded, it was more my own writing than his. He saw his mistakes and is working to correct them.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

That's funny that you had so many problems with Track Change as it's the only thing I use. I swear by it, it's clear, concise and so easy to use and see the changes. All my writers (well, the ones who use Word) know that everything will come back to them with track changes.

I've never had any complaints, just praise for the way it's working. Maybe your 'problems' stem from the fact that those writers didn't know how to use it?

I'm pretty sure that's the case. When I mentioned using it the writer acknowledged having a version of Word that had that capability, but I'm thinking the writer had no knowledge of the feature other than what I had mentioned.

But to be fair I've had problems with Tracking Changes at work on the few occasions others have used it in that I am also clumsy due to lack of experience. It could have been either, or both, of our faults. Not laying blame, just trying to fix the problem.

Back to the old way for me, dinosaur that I might be. Geez, sounding like my beloved father more and more, technology is outpacing my ability to keep up.

CRAP!

 

[LadyCibelle]

Did you read my mind?

And what a beautiful mind to read if I was.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

That's funny that you had so many problems with Track Change as it's the only thing I use. ... I've never had any complaints, just praise for the way it's working. Maybe your 'problems' stem from the fact that those writers didn't know how to use it?

Likewise. And for authors who don't use Word I <save as> a web page and send them that. MSWord leaves all the tracked changes visible, and any browser will display them.

 

[michchick98]

I'm pretty sure that's the case. When I mentioned using it the writer acknowledged having a version of Word that had that capability, but I'm thinking the writer had no knowledge of the feature other than what I had mentioned.

But to be fair I've had problems with Tracking Changes at work on the few occasions others have used it in that I am also clumsy due to lack of experience. It could have been either, or both, of our faults. Not laying blame, just trying to fix the problem.

Back to the old way for me, dinosaur that I might be. Geez, sounding like my beloved father more and more, technology is outpacing my ability to keep up.

CRAP!

I must have a really old version of...well something. I know it's not Word. I do it the old fashioned way (well, old fashioned as far as computers go) and just copy and paste the story into a new file, then make my changes. I usually make them bold so if, for whatever reason, the author is unable to see the colors, hopefully he/she can see the bold text.

I do have OpenOffice.org, but haven't played around with it too much beyond the spell checker and word count thingy.

 

[_Lynn_]

I must have a really old version of...well something. I know it's not Word. I do it the old fashioned way (well, old fashioned as far as computers go) and just copy and paste the story into a new file, then make my changes. I usually make them bold so if, for whatever reason, the author is unable to see the colors, hopefully he/she can see the bold text.

I do have OpenOffice.org, but haven't played around with it too much beyond the spell checker and word count thingy.

I tried OpenOffice.org and all it did was make everything on my computer freeze. It didn't matter if I had a doc open or not. Nothing worked right so I got rid of it and installed Word. No more problems. I have a Mac laptop with the correct version on it as well. The program has more features than I know how to use but I'm learning!

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... if, for whatever reason, the author is unable to see the colors, ...

That stopped me in my tracks - I use colours a lot, but nobody has ever complained, so i assume i have not met any colour-blind or monochrome screen owning authors.

I tried OpenOffice.org and all it did was make everything on my computer freeze. ...

Odd - I have OpenOffice with no problems, but only the Welsh language version so I don't use it a lot.

I ... installed Word. No more problems. I have a Mac laptop with the correct version on it as well. The program has more features than I know how to use but I'm learning!

All WP programs have more features than any human being could remember, let alone use.

 

[_Lynn_]

Odd - I have OpenOffice with no problems, but only the Welsh language version so I don't use it a lot.

I've talked to others using the program without any problems. One thought was that the size of the computer could make a difference. A few days of having everything freeze across the screen each time I did any research, used IM, opened an e-mail or tried to access a favorite site was enough. I can't remember when I had to reboot more. Buying Word was a no-brainer at that point.

 

[JRaven]

That stopped me in my trachs (tracks?) - I use colours a lot, but nobody has ever complained, so i assume i have not met any colour-blind or monochrome screen owning authors.

Odd - I have OpenOffice with no problems, but only the Welsh language version so I don't use it a lot.

All WP programs have more features than any human being could remember, let alone use.

Welsh? Well, that explains, why you didn't like, where I put my commas!


Jenny

 

[DeeZire]

Buying Word was a no-brainer at that point.

An alternative to giving even more money to Bill Gates is Nisus Writer on a Mac. It will open MS Word files, and seems to have a decent spell checker. I think it costs, like, $69 or something. Of course, professional writers would probably laugh at it, since it's not the industry standard, but for non-pros, Nisus Writer is fine.

I've been using it since it came free on my OS 8 Mac, all those years ago, and it has never crashed. (Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there are any MS Word users out there who can say the same thing?) Ever since OSX, I've been using it in conjunction with my music program, rewriting song lyrics and printing them out while recording, and still, no crashes. When technology works as it's supposed to, it can be a beautiful thing.

 

[_Lynn_]

An alternative to giving even more money to Bill Gates is Nisus Writer on a Mac. It will open MS Word files, and seems to have a decent spell checker. I think it costs, like, $69 or something. Of course, professional writers would probably laugh at it, since it's not the industry standard, but for non-pros, Nisus Writer is fine.

I've been using it since it came free on my OS 8 Mac, all those years ago, and it has never crashed. (Just out of curiosity, I wonder if there are any MS Word users out there who can say the same thing?) Ever since OSX, I've been using it in conjunction with my music program, rewriting song lyrics and printing them out while recording, and still, no crashes. When technology works as it's supposed to, it can be a beautiful thing.

I have Word on my Mac laptop as well.

 

[michchick98]

That stopped me in my trachs - I use colours a lot, but nobody has ever complained, so i assume i have not met any colour-blind or monochrome screen owning authors.

The only one who ever said she was unable to see the colors had all around general problems with her computer so it became a habit to make everything bold as well as making my changes in red and my notes in blue.

Actually, for her I used bold/underlined so it would stand out, but I don't underline for authors that I edit now.

The only other person who said he had problems was apparently opening the file I sent back in Notepad. That strips away all formatting. Once I figured out what he was doing and explained the problem, he can now see any changes I make for him with no problems.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thomas Paine noted that people rarely value what they get for free.

Decent writers acknowledge editorial help; shitwits dont.

In fact, shitwits wouldnt recognize an improvement if it bit them.

 

[Elianna]

Speaking of editing and not following my editor's suggestions...

I was wondering if anyone could just tell me the REASON why this is wrong. Is is SO wrong that I need to go back and change these in EVERY story?

"You mean you don't want me to?" pouted Leanne.

I've always written like this, but I'm trying to take some suggestions to heart. I know someone could "pout". I know you could say it while "pouting," so why can't you just "pout" something?

Sorry. I'm one of those that just has to ask WHY?

(MistressLynn rocks as an editor, by the way.)

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Odd - I have OpenOffice with no problems, but only the Welsh language version so I don't use it a lot.

Welsh? Well, that explains, why you didn't like, where I put my commas!

I never tried to hide where I live.







What do you mean, you didn't know where Tirphil is? It's between Brithdir and Pontlottyn; clear now?

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... I was wondering if anyone could just tell me the REASON why this is wrong. Is is SO wrong that I need to go back and change these in EVERY story?

"You mean you don't want me to?" pouted Leanne.

The Oxford English Dictionary says in definition 3 of the verb:

verb trans. Utter sulkily or with a pout. Late 19th Century.

And the example it quotes is:

J. Heller
‘Do you like my wool?’ ‘Of course,’ he replied. ‘You never say so,’ she pouted.

so I don't understand your editor's complaint.

 

[emap]

That is an odd one, though perhaps it has something to do with pouted isn't a terribly commonly used word, most people know pout and pouting but pouted is one of those old english words. Last time I saw it in print was in a book written in 1954 I think.

It's one of those weird things they like to do here. There was a wild west show on HBO a few years ago, I tried watching it, I really did, the language use was so completely not from the old west it ruined the show for me. I mean, they had the outfits, the hair styles, the horses and wagons and all, but they called each cocksucker and bitch and I watched it for abotu three minutes turned it off and tried to forget the entire thing. Still trying.

For whatever reason, companies in the US especially work things so that the simplest dimwit can understand the material, which of course ruins any chance of putting you in the story. I remember trying to watch an animated movie about two vikings tasked with looking after the young son of a king or something. He comes rolling in breakdancing, using a woodpecker as a text message machine and a few other things. Which I could live with except he talked like a valley guy, bounced around alot, flirted up every woman he passed and it was so utterly annoying and brainless I turned that off to.

I miss 40 years ago when things weren't dumbed down, Rocky and Bullwinkle, it was funny for kids and adults for different reasons. Laurel and Hardy, they weren't just slapstick, Marx Brothers, wasn't just bash each other over the head. I don't like the three stooges but they weren't just about smashing each other, huge part but there was actually a story. Can't say that anymore, which is the problem people don't want to think anymore, at least according to the shows and movies and books released now, besides a few that are the exeptions that prove the rule.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

That is an odd one, though perhaps it has something to do with pouted isn't a terribly commonly used word, most people know pout and pouting but pouted is one of those old english words. Last time I saw it in print was in a book written in 1954 I think. ...

So how do "most people" indicate the existence of a pouting (which you say they know) girl if they are speaking of something which happened yesterday?
"Boy, was she upset!"
"What did she say?"
"She didn't say anything. She just, oh I don't know the word for it, but if it were here and now I'd say she is pouting."

... pouted is one of those old english words. ...

Er... no. Pout as a verb did not enter the language until the late sixteenth century. In Old English pout was only in use as a noun (still used today) in its biological sense applying to any of various fishes esp. of the gadid genus Trisopterus or related genera.

... Which I could live with except he talked like a valley guy, ...

I come from the Valleys and I live in the Valleys - what's wrong with us Valley boys? It's you colonials that talk in strange ways. <wink>

 

[michchick98]

Speaking of editing and not following my editor's suggestions...

I was wondering if anyone could just tell me the REASON why this is wrong. Is is SO wrong that I need to go back and change these in EVERY story?

"You mean you don't want me to?" pouted Leanne.

I've always written like this, but I'm trying to take some suggestions to heart. I know someone could "pout". I know you could say it while "pouting," so why can't you just "pout" something?

Sorry. I'm one of those that just has to ask WHY?

(MistressLynn rocks as an editor, by the way.)

Okay, I'm a bit late in chiming in on this, but I wouldn't have corrected it if I were editing your story. I'm sure I've seen the word pouted used in other stories and I think I might even have used it once or twice.

I'd look at it as the past tense of pout.

grab - grabbed
kick - kicked
cry - cried
yell - yelled
pout - pouted

Yeah, it fits with the rest.

 

[sr71plt]

Much of this discussion is really irrelevant to the reason many editors won't permit something like: "I hate you," he pouted.

"Pouted" is a perfectly fine verb, but it isn't a vocalization verb--it's a borderline case, but anything that makes the reader stop to consider whether it's a proper use isn't a good thing to do.

Some action verbs are pretty much impossible to do at the same time as forming and vocalizing words--e.g., snorted, sneezed, coughed, laughed, grinnedl. So these really aren't acceptable as dialogue slugs--but this doesn't stop untrained writers from using them.

The better ones are ones like said, yelled, screamed, murmured, whispered, muttered, moaned--which are fully capable of combining with vocalization in one action.

Pouted is in the in-between zone, along with words like gasped, and sneered, grunted.

To avoid reader stoppage, even these are best used in combination: "I hate you," he muttered, his face turning into a pout that Hazel well knew. There'd be no pudding for young master tonight.