Greenmountain's Passive Voice

[bogusagain]

I'm asking you to be brave, I am asking that you enter this thread without baggage. lets just talk about this poem and what you think it means.

Unless you are asking for critical advice as a way of improving the poem, you shouldn't be asking your readers as to what the poem means, you should just present it, cut the umbilical cord and withdraw and leave your readers to interpret the poem anyway they care to.

As to what your poem means, I've really no idea but I don't think that matters. What matters I think, is that it is interesting enough to provoke a response in the reader and make them think time is well spent in a private dialog with the poem.

I've read your poem several times and I find it frustrating. I just get the sense you are denying me as a reader information as a way of making the poem more mysterious and esoteric and asking me to fill in the gaps. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to make the poem interesting enough for the reader to want to fill in the gaps and I'm not sure it is, for me anyway.

 

[annaswirls]

pssssst it isn't his poem

Unless you are asking for critical advice as a way of improving the poem, you shouldn't be asking your readers as to what the poem means, you should just present it, cut the umbilical cord and withdraw and leave your readers to interpret the poem anyway they care to.

As to what your poem means, I've really no idea but I don't think that matters. What matters I think, is that it is interesting enough to provoke a response in the reader and make them think time is well spent in a private dialog with the poem.

I've read your poem several times and I find it frustrating. I just get the sense you are denying me as a reader information as a way of making the poem more mysterious and esoteric and asking me to fill in the gaps. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to make the poem interesting enough for the reader to want to fill in the gaps and I'm not sure it is, for me anyway.

 

[bogusagain]

pssssst it isn't his poem

oops!

 

[Angeline]

oops!

Eh, that didn't make your comment wrong. What you said makes good sense. And it's always good to see you here.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

where is the truth found? in what the poet intends, or in what the reader perceives?

we don't need the writer to tell us what he meant. you already have your truth about this poem. i know i already have mine.

i don't see or feel many of the interpretations you offer (and that doesn't mean they're not there). i get a much different feel.

isn't that part of the beauty of poetry?

I agree, "the truth" lies in what the poet intended although each reader forms his or her own "truth" so it's moot. Only abstract art has this edge where the viewer makes their own conclusion. But I'm still interested in learning what gm's meaning is in this poem.

I'm learning to enjoy the beauty of reading poetry more and more and the variety of approaches in here add to that enjoyment.

I still wish I could write with more weight but perhaps I should just accept that it is my style to write fluffy stuff. As the saying goes - "there's always someone for anything." - or something.

 

[twelveoone]

Oh! Puh-lease!

This poem is not creepy! It's a gentle slice of life and nothing to do with corpses or watching murders. I'm not a betting soul but I would bet on this. If I'm wrong I'll eat my hat - or at least write a poem about it.

Sorry for the blurt - just my take,

Really? says in a Peter Lorre voice, with breath upon your neck
...wonder what body heat
My hand may have missed.

I liike your parfume

The passive voice and the last stanza, well that is way beyond Prufrock, up to the last stanza, it is like something (almost non human) struggling to be there.

 

[twelveoone]

where is the truth found? in what the poet intends, or in what the reader perceives?

we don't need the writer to tell us what he meant. you already have your truth about this poem. i know i already have mine.

i don't see or feel many of the interpretations you offer (and that doesn't mean they're not there). i get a much different feel.

isn't that part of the beauty of poetry?

Well. Mr Rain, a discussion about poetry that mentions both truth and beauty, that didn't make me want to hurl. I agree with you. The poem as poem exists when the reader reads it. The authour has done his job and is gone, existing only in what prior knowledge the reader may have of the authour.

 

[Angeline]

Really? says in a Peter Lorre voice, with breath upon your neck
...wonder what body heat
My hand may have missed.

I liike your parfume

The passive voice and the last stanza, well that is way beyond Prufrock, up to the last stanza, it is like something (almost non human) struggling to be there.

We agree about the Prufrock (beyond, in your opinion--mebbe mine, too), and also that once the author is not in the picture the reader can see whatever he or she wants in the poem. I see the poem similarly to RM. I don't see it as being intentionally foggy, moreso unintentionally vague, not focused. I suspect that a year (or less) from now, the author could look at it and see ways to improve it (as most of us can with our own poems).

There's no doubt in my mind that greenmountaineer is a good poet, a really good poet. Maybe an alt for someone here, you never know. This poem, for example, is very good, certainly better realized than Passive Voice and imo constructed better and more lyrical with the rhyme. Very nice work with the rhyme.

 

[SinnamonSecret]

Interpretation

Could this be as simple as a dead doorman?

 

[annaswirls]

it is like something (almost non human) struggling to be there.

YES! That is is!

There is truth and then there is the ability to articulate it. Thank you for being smarter than me and helping me to understand my own brain.

 

[greenmountaineer]

My comments

It appears the thread is winding down, so I'd like to briefly comment for anyone who may be interested.

I think Tristesse2 owns a magic carpet, decided one day to take a ride, and met up with my Muse. Some of her comments mirrored my thoughts very closely, particularly the contrast between dirt and plastic. I intended this to be about a shy guy who's self-conscious, particularly in new physical and/or social situations, and relies too heavily upon formality to cope with those feelings. I tried to convey a similar theme in "Cross Words," an earlier submission, perhaps with more success in that the landscape was more descriptive than in this poem.

Lest anyone think the poem is (too) autobiographical, my lovely wife who has a gentle sway to her hips just as gently reminds me when I'm out and about, it's OK to look, which I do, but any touching of pretty women must remain in the accepted practices of polite society.

I appreciated all comments. They were provocative for me in the best meaning of the term.

I neither smelled of dirt nor plastic.
Mine was a faint smell, really.
One had to be conscious I was there
By some other means:


I am neither poor - smelling of dirt - or rich - smelling of plastic (charge cards) I am an ordinary man (having a faint smell - nothing strong and memorable

Like opening doors for everyone.
I ushered all the ladies through,
Palm touching shoulder,

Unobtrusively presenting myself - Like opening doors for everyone. Then Palm touching shoulder. A very common and courteous gesture.

Then leaned on door frames,
Ventured within
But soon sought sturdy walls
And sliding glass doors
With floor to ceiling drapes,

Here I see him casually trying to become part of the proceedings in a non-active way - interested but passive (remember the title?)

There to peek,
To see the gentle sway of hips,
The cosmetic color of skin,
And wonder what body heat
My hand may have missed.

Finally he realises he's not accepted as "one of The Girls" and contents himself to observing and dreaming

Now Mr Carrington, where's the "creep" factor in that?

I'd like to join Patrick in welcoming GreenMountaineer. I can't wait to find out the truth.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Greenmountaineer thank you for the poem.

Unmasked Poet thank you for one of the better threads I've seen in a while. Well done, dude. Who's next?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

.

<clip>I think Tristesse2 owns a magic carpet, decided one day to take a ride, and met up with my Muse. Some of her comments mirrored my thoughts very closely, particularly the contrast between dirt and plastic. </clip>

*Puts away recipes for Gourmet Hat.*