Guilty or not?

[Birch Twig]

It's too late to change your mind a day after the game. And certainly a year or so later.

 

[Netzach]

You have to be kidding me.

It's too late to rethink having your kids' life risked, your ass thrown out on a highway 60 K from home at night, your mother threatened with AIDS and it's wimping out to rethink being tossed out of a boat in the middle of a bay?

I think there's enough factual evidence, spin notwithstanding, for me to say this has nothing to do with the life I wanna lead or the culture I'm going to verbally defend to the death.

 

[InnerDarkness]

It's too late to change your mind a day after the game. And certainly a year or so later.

I would hope it would never be too late to change my mind. It is possible that I could ask for something I have only ever dreamt about or read about, and then when reality sinks its teeth into me, I realize I made a mistake or did not comprehend how the fantasy would play itself out in real life.

I would hope that in MY relationship (which I can safely say would never go this far), even if I had relinquished all my rights...my Sir would realize the effect the situation would have on me and make decisions in my best interest.

I can ALWAYS change my mind...it is just how my Sir deals with that change that would determine the outcome.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Okay I stop now my rambling, I hope I get out what I wanted to say…



Anna Sue

I think you said it perfectly, and I have to agree.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

While I am still not convinced this man is one I would necessarily want to be friends with, I am not convinced the situation is anything more than a woman who agreed to something she felt she wanted, and at some later point, for a reason we do not know, decided she no longer could continue. If it were a situation of family finding out, it is IMO quite probable she chose to make allegations and lay charges simply because she could not handle the alternative of admitting to others she consensually was living this life and wanted it, even thrived on it...it does happen.

I look at the things in the story, many which have not been proven, and then what is left. After shaking my head and wondering how anyone could con (not blackmail or force or threaten) someone into fraudulently borrowing 1.34 milion dollars if they really didn't want to, I look at how many charges (21) he was acquitted of which was a third of the total. Then looking at the ones he was found guilty of, it seems they are all situations which could happen in any TPE BDSM relationship which did not necessarily even include extreme play...just worded in legal terms it makes them seem bad and invokes images of horror.

For instance, in my own relationship, which is nowhere near as severe as what this one is reported to have allegedly been, Masterful one could easily be found guilty in a court of law of all the things this man was, and yet they were consensual and part of many D/s relationships, even the mildest of ones. It may be all about the way you look at it. For instance, if a Dominant says, Íf you do not do x,y, and z, I am going to make you sorry you ever dared defy me by posting a pic of you twat on the internet', (and x,y,z may be as simple as washing his clothes and cleaning house), theoretically it can be made to look like blackmail to those outside BDSM.

While I can not say 100% her story is false in some way, I do have questions on points which do not add up to me from a lifestyle POV especially. She says she could not do anything because she feared repercussions which would involve her family, and yet she must have decided to risk that to get it to court. She also obviously had freedom of movement for most of the relationship as it covered 3 years, but she says she was only kept in his garage for 1 year....was this once she decided she wanted to go to the next step but then either found it was too much, or someone found out and she needed a cover for her own complicity? And where were her children all this time (3 & 5 yo), especially when she was supposedly locked in his garage for a year.

And as for his supposed favourite saying, "It's all over red rover", being seen as evidence he was a sadistic bastard...sheesh, being an Aussie myself, I have heard this phrase used repeatedly since I was knee high to a grasshopper for the simplist of things like being found out on a white lie, or not doing homework, etc., and was not a sign I or anyone was about to be subject to a brutal beating etc. I don't know, it just seems to me to have holes in it and be judging what could have been a genuine Master/slave arrangement from a vanilla viewpoint, and more importantly, through the eyes of the law, which is the threat we forever live with when we enter into D/s relationships.

Catalina

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

Guilty.

Anyone who would even consider defending this person, or his, behavior, for any reason is guilty of something too.

 

[Netzach]

Posting pictures of one's twat is one thing. Killing pets children or family members is another kind of threat, don't you think?

As for how people could possibly be duped into financial hijinx that benefit them in the short term by someone with more power over them, look at Enron. A company gone haywire starts with a few people in power deciding that the law no longer applies to them.


Look, I think it's a shitty yellow press article, red rover and such, but maybe it did actually take a year for this woman to realize she didn't want to live her life in a garage and get up the balls to get out of her situation. I should think that your experiences with abuse victims would encompass the fear of leaving and the unwillingness to leave that keeps people in awful situations, keeps them from telling family, even causes them to behave in erratic and inexplicable ways.

If it's so clear this was a D/s relationship, why the apparent lack of defense on the defendants' part? You'd think if it was all agreed to, there'd be some kind of statement, and if there was I'm sure our roving reporter here would have sensationalized it.

Finally, I think that there's only one power a D/s slave retains. And that's the ability to re-think things should they still decide to have that power. Some have no desire to feel like they CAN re-think the program, and that's fine. It's entirely possible that someone might sign on to a slave contract with someone who they never thought would threaten another human with AIDS infected blood, and then see that change, just as it's entirely likely someone might marry a man they never thought would beat them in the not-so-good way.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Posting pictures of one's twat is one thing. Killing pets children or family members is another kind of threat, don't you think?

Yes I do, but I also am aware not all things always appear as they are made out to be ...and given my knowledge of certain aspects of Australia and legal precedents, this case raises big questions in my mind as to the reality and the perceived or created reality. I was trying to demonstrate a conviction of blackmail from a vanilla legal perspective, may be over something a Dominant says in a regular D/s relationship which is part of the play and/or limits....seen through another's eyes it is not so innocent. Could you honestly say Netzach, that you have never said (or done) anything in a scene which could be interpreted as a threat or abuse if someone wanted to make it appear that way for their own reasons after the fact?

Not all people found guilty and imprisoned are always guilty, and not all 'victims' are the victim they present themselves as. There are many cases where years later the conviction has been overturned and compensation paid for incorrect imprisonment. And yes, I have experience dealing with abused women, and unfortunately there were a couple who actually were not abused, (and admitted it ) who were wanting to have the SO to be labelled an abuser for a variety of reasons which served their needs at the time. It does not happen often, but the reality is it does and you learn to not perpetuate abuse on another to serve the purposes of one.

I don't know if the story is accurate, or a crime was committed or not, but I do think it worthy of looking at from another perspective other than what was presented, if only as a hypothetical instance of what could happen in the worst scenario of a D/s relationship gone bad. For me it does raise a lot of questions, and more importantly it could happen to any Dominant who became involved with a submissive who for whatever reason later decided they wanted to lay charges for what was at the time consensual. For instance, how does the Dominant defend themselves given many aspects of the lifestyle are considered unlawful, and the police are perhaps looking at a crying woman saying she has been a victim of abuse? Is it fair to have the Dominant imprisoned perhaps, for something another agreed to but later for whatever reason felt inclined to go back on? I am not referring to them saying they no longer want to play and not being listened to, but to someone laying charges over something that was consensual at the time.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

well, frankly "fair" doesn't enter into it. It's how it looks. For a less loaded, perhaps, example, I have had many men request elaborate fantasy blackmail scenarios, where they want to give me their wives email or phone number or their mother's address, and then have me threaten them and extort.

I don't touch this with a ten foot pole, once the addresses actually come out, whether they are real or bullshit, it doesn't matter. I'm not going there. Not because I don't think it's hot, because I know how easily that can bite me in the ass.

 

[catalina_francisco]

While looking for something unrelated I came across earlier stories of this case. The woman said she had worked for Slattery and entered into a relationship with him in 1996, receiving her first beating 2 days after beginning the relationship. She further said the pattern continued over the following 2 years, during which time she was asked on several occasions by a Cafe owner she had regular contact with, medical staff, and police if she was being abused and needed help, each time her response was she was fine and didn't need help....and yes, abused women will say the same.

After 2 years, she said she sent her children away so they would not witness the violence of her relationship, and at his request and the next stage of the relationship, moved into Slattery's garage where she remained for the final year. When asked about the relationship she said 'He commanded, I obeyed, that was the type relationship we had'. All I can say is I am glad I am not a Dominant as whether this was abuse or consensual, the reality is I could legally do the same if I was inclined, and Francisco would have little if anything to protect him from the law.

Catalina

 

[InnerDarkness]

Finally, I think that there's only one power a D/s slave retains. And that's the ability to re-think things should they still decide to have that power.

While I can say without a doubt that I would never enter into a D/s slave relationship, I think this very point is the only thing that would save me if I ever did cross into that territory...and it keep me sane now. I truly believe it is my power to change my mind, to re-think, and to get out if I want/need to. That is how I have always been, and I would not be in any relationship that would require something different of me.

The scary thing about this case, and heck...the lifestyle in general, is that we all risk exposure and create liability for ourselves concerning laws and mainstream expectations of what is appropriate in relationships. Anyone wanting to play or experiment in a BDSM lifestyle could very quickly change their mind, press charges and probably be fully supported by the legal system. Heck, as evidenced (perhaps) by this article or experiences people have heard about..anyone can do it, even a slave/sub who knows and wants D/s, but may hold a personal grudge against a Sir.

You know what I wonder though? If a Master and slave had written contracts with witnesses about what their relationship entailed, would that matter in a court of law? What if the documents were periodically reviewed and updated during the course of the relationship? Anyone heard of any cases like this where the defense involved slave contracts?

Would be interesting to know...

 

[catalina_francisco]

You know what I wonder though? If a Master and slave had written contracts with witnesses about what their relationship entailed, would that matter in a court of law? What if the documents were periodically reviewed and updated during the course of the relationship? Anyone heard of any cases like this where the defense involved slave contracts?

Would be interesting to know...

To the best of my knowledge as they are not considered legal documents, they would have no significance in such a case. The sub could always say she was forced, threatened, blackmailed, or coerced into signing. Most places can still file charges on grievous bodily harm etc., whether the sub consented initially or not. Is why I have put this story here as whether it is factual as to non consensual or not, it shows how easy it would be to find yourself in the same position if you were a Dominant, and as you say, the sub/slave decided they want some sort of revenge. The law does not exactly fall over itself to support our choices.

Catalina

 

[InnerDarkness]

Is why I have put this story here as whether it is factual as to non consensual or not, it shows how easy it would be to find yourself in the same position if you were a Dominant, and as you say, the sub/slave decided they want some sort of revenge. The law does not exactly fall over itself to support our choices.

Catalina

Kinda scary if you are the Dominant one. I am not sure I would want that kind of liability, but then again...I say that from a submission perspective LOL!

 

[sweetnpetite]

Re: Re: to everybody

I do have to wonder if there was something missing that we don't know about. The conditions seemed harsh to me, but again...if they were agreed on...I don't know.

The thing that bothered me was the actions towards the children. I don't think children have any place in this.

And the way his wife and daughter were...it made me wonder if this was a whole family affair.

That is what made me think that definatly (in my mind) this was not a consentual BDSM situation. Was there any mention of his defense other than that he pled 'not guilty'?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: to everybody

That is what made me think that definatly (in my mind) this was not a consentual BDSM situation. Was there any mention of his defense other than that he pled 'not guilty'?

None at all, which gave a rather one sided view of it all unfortunately.

Catalina