Have you seen the idiocy?

So serious, Nyx! If it's good enough for Edward Bulwer-Lytton it's good enough for me. I could channel Karl Marx I guess, and refer to the proletariat, or really piss people off by referring to the urban proletariat. Or Groucho Marx, "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member."

Join them if you choose to. Others may discriminate, using their own criteria :).

For a second I was wondering if I'm supposed to be impressed with all those super smart philosophical mentions and word of the day calendar choices.

Then I realized you're just preening like a peacock for a woman you're tying to impress. Not the first thread I've seen this in, won't be the last, the grabby boy playbook insists one keeps trying.


And that EB, is how one shoots penguins.
 
Okay, so I'm not sober, or drunk, but I am hungover, so I'll try.

I think he has an issue with scoring in general. That stories are subjective and someone's 5 could be another persons 2.

Because this site is heavily geared towards numbers and H's, and we've had many people say when they look for stories they hit top lists and look for H's and that's how they decide to read, that a story that suffers a lower score won't get read as much

So I think his case is maybe there should be no scoring and each story treated the same and stand on its own merit?

I think this site has "universal suffrage" and anybody with an Internet connection can vote, correct? That's the way it is.

I'm on another site that I believe limits voting to members only, and the people there are extremely generous in their voting. I guess they don't want to hurt each other's feelings. The problem is that the scores are so high that they don't mean much. And they don't allow anonymous comments.

On Literotica, if I get above a 4 or I get a nice comment, I feel like I really had to earn it. Of course, I may think that certain stories should have scored higher, but . . . A 3.93 ain't bad.

I mentioned on another thread how, with certain negative comments, months later I realized that the person was right after all. A few comments even made me rethink how I was doing certain things.

By the way, shouldn't it be "vetted in the proper way," not "vented?"
 
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The only argument I've heard regarding removing the red H that has some merit is that its become a bullseye for trolls. Same for Green E's and W's, except there's a hell of a lot more Red H's and they're easier to find, the other stuff you have to be looking on someone's story page, that's a lot of extra keys to hit, which isn't easy when typing with hooves.

The Red Hs also create a situation where — because they are used as signposts by readers — even a 4 can be damaging. Scores are now visible everywhere. Few are going to notice the difference between a 4.49 and a 4.50 without that bright red signpost. It will cause a lot of 4.0-4.49 stories to get a lot more reads, and thus reduce some of the angst from writers about single .01 changes.

Unless that .01 is the difference between making the hall of fame or not. LOL

Ws are short term troll magnets, as people who don't like the results will bomb the winners out of revenge. In the long run, any reduction in score is likely due to increased numbers of 4s caused by attracting additional readers.

Es are rare, and when something is rare, people expect it to be of exceptional quality. The truth is that it's a story that tickled Laurel's fancy. That could be quality. It could just be a story that turned her on or intrigued her. When readers encounter a story marked with an E where the latter was the stronger factor for Laurel issuing an E, it may very well suffer with those who don't share the same interests. E stories also get top billing on the new story list, which exposes them to more readers, and thus more 4s.

Like Ws, in the long run, any score losses are probably due to increased exposure and more 4s than actual trolling. Trolling can't remove a W or an E. Some will still do it out of spite, but the dedicated trolls are going to focus their efforts on removing Hs, dropping out of Hall of Fame, etc. Goals that can be accomplished.

****

Looks to me as if English isn't the OPs first language. Might even be a touch of autocorrect in there. So many people are operating from handheld devices that it's common. Seems more likely than inebriation to me.

My first thought was "Loving Wives" with respect to the "ultra-conservative" comment. Checked the list, and nope. Primarily a long incest story with a reasonable number of H chapters. One GM story, but otherwise no real trigger categories.

My best guess is that the OP triggered some readership's bugaboo. NonCon in incest maybe. Penis showing up in Lesbian. Something like that. Didn't explore the comments, but that's my second best guess after LW.

The last thing I think it means is the political definition of conservative. I think it's kink-shaming/bombing that's being complained about.
 
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The Red Hs also create a situation where — because they are used as signposts by readers — even a 4 can be damaging. Scores are now visible everywhere. Few are going to notice the difference between a 4.49 and a 4.50 without that bright red signpost. It will cause a lot of 4.0-4.49 stories to get a lot more reads, and thus reduce some of the angst from writers about single .01 changes.

Unless that .01 is the difference between making the hall of fame or not. LOL

Ws are short term troll magnets, as people who don't like the results will bomb the winners out of revenge. In the long run, any reduction in score is likely due to increased numbers of 4s caused by attracting additional readers.

Es are rare, and when something is rare, people expect it to be of exceptional quality. The truth is that it's a story that tickled Laurel's fancy. That could be quality. It could just be a story that turned her on or intrigued her. When readers encounter a story marked with an E where the latter was the stronger factor for Laurel issuing an E, it may very well suffer with those who don't share the same interests. E stories also get top billing on the new story list, which exposes them to more readers, and thus more 4s.

Like Ws, in the long run, any score losses are probably due to increased exposure and more 4s than actual trolling. Trolling can't remove a W or an E. Some will still do it out of spite, but the dedicated trolls are going to focus their efforts on removing Hs, dropping out of Hall of Fame, etc. Goals that can be accomplished.

****

Looks to me as if English isn't the OPs first language. Might even be a touch of autocorrect in there. So many people are operating from handheld devices that it's common. Seems more likely than inebriation to me.

My first thought was "Loving Wives" with respect to the "ultra-conservative" comment. Checked the list, and nope. Primarily a long incest story with a reasonable number of H chapters. One GM story, but otherwise no real trigger categories.

My best guess is that the OP triggered some readership's bugaboo. NonCon in incest maybe. Penis showing up in Lesbian. Something like that. Didn't explore the comments, but that's my second best guess after LW.

The last thing I think it means is the political definition of conservative. I think it's kink-shaming/bombing that's being complained about.

It didn't occur to me the poster was an author. I saw this was one post here and thought this was another griping reader.

Peeked at his page and it doesn't seem like he's been unduly abused here, he has one GM story that's 3.72 but everything else is over a four with a good percentage of H's.

So falls under the category of not sure what they're bitching about unless he had a comment or private feedback that set him off.

So now in context I agree with you that conservative isn't meant in the sense of politically conservative.
 
Looks to me as if English isn't the OPs first language. Might even be a touch of autocorrect in there. So many people are operating from handheld devices that it's common. Seems more likely than inebriation to me.

My first thought was "Loving Wives" with respect to the "ultra-conservative" comment. Checked the list, and nope. Primarily a long incest story with a reasonable number of H chapters. One GM story, but otherwise no real trigger categories.

My best guess is that the OP triggered some readership's bugaboo. NonCon in incest maybe. Penis showing up in Lesbian. Something like that. Didn't explore the comments, but that's my second best guess after LW.

The last thing I think it means is the political definition of conservative. I think it's kink-shaming/bombing that's being complained about.

Oh, fine. Be all reasonable. I still think it would read better if I were drunk.

But wait... what about "taking away life at a whim?" Are authors getting executed now?

Sorry. I'm sleep-deprived courtesy of fireworks, and everything's funny. I'll go read my spam.
 
Oh, fine. Be all reasonable. I still think it would read better if I were drunk.

But wait... what about "taking away life at a whim?" Are authors getting executed now?

Sorry. I'm sleep-deprived courtesy of fireworks, and everything's funny. I'll go read my spam.

You keep coming back to taking lives....should we all be worried?
 
By the way, shouldn't it be "vetted in the proper way," not "vented?"

Presumably so, yes, which would mean only allowing votes of signed-in account holders. That would be fine, except those down voting for the hell of it would just acquire more accounts.

Better solutions would seem to be either to broaden the highlighting--4.0 to 4.49 registering as "hot" and 4.5 and above as "Sizzling"--or to do away with the "hot" marker altogether and let the reader just see the number, which has only been provided for the last few years. Another good solution would be provide graphs for each story, showing the vote spread, as SOL does for its authors.

In any event, suggestions have been made for more than a decade now without response, so . . .
 
There are many fantastic stories out there that are being thwarted by some who would, for a purpose, decide that many of the stories are unworthy. I think this is ultra-conservative bullshit, simply taking life away at a whim. When I think a story is a 5 star, and others think it is a one star, it is a stupid way of deciding what is an original thought. Stories need to be vented in the proper way. I am frustrated with Literotica for only thinking the common votes might benefit.

Scores are what they are. If this is about comments, I tend to only ever comment on stories I dont enjoy, but even then you can have negative comments blocked/removed. Recently I read a poorly written story that was inundated with word repetition within the first couple of paragraphs, just atrocious. That writer had the critical comment removed. Had they only spent that time expanding their vocabulary, instead of censoring negative criticism, maybe they would have a higher score.
 
Scores are what they are. If this is about comments, I tend to only ever comment on stories I dont enjoy, but even then you can have negative comments blocked/removed. Recently I read a poorly written story that was inundated with word repetition within the first couple of paragraphs, just atrocious. That writer had the critical comment removed. Had they only spent that time expanding their vocabulary, instead of censoring negative criticism, maybe they would have a higher score.

First of all, thank you for being someone who provides feedback. Feedback rates are awfully low. It's too bad you only comment when you don't like something. It's tremendously motivating for many authors when they get feedback about what you like, too. Of course, it's actually the negative criticism that's more helpful for improving one's writing.

As a reader, consider what you're trying to accomplish with your negative criticism. Do you just want to say you don't like something, do you leave your comment as a review for other readers, or do you want to show the author something they can do better so they can improve with the next story? If you want to help the author improve, you might consider sending anonymous feedback instead of commenting, if you've got a whole ton of negative stuff to unload on . I don't know this for a fact, but I wonder if some authors would be more open to the criticism that way.

When you do leave comments, I'd suggest you make the criticisms in a factual sort of way. Maybe you do. I haven't seen your comments. What I mean here is the difference between someone leaving a comment that says, "You have the vocabulary of a third-grader," and a comment that says something like, "varying the word choice would improve the story," or "I found the frequent word repetition distracting." A lot of authors do worry about word repetition. It can be hard to catch in your own writing.

If you already leave the comments constructively, there's not much you can do. If an author is too thin-skinned to take criticism, it's their loss. Just remember that there are feelings at the other end of that feedback.

Just my thoughts on it.
 
Oh, fine. Be all reasonable. I still think it would read better if I were drunk.

But wait... what about "taking away life at a whim?" Are authors getting executed now?

Sorry. I'm sleep-deprived courtesy of fireworks, and everything's funny. I'll go read my spam.

Again — second language. It could very well mean enthusiasm, drive, desire, or any number of things that could be mistranslated into "life". Those are concepts that wouldn't be common for basic language courses.

Of course, having decent scores on about half of the erotica flies in the face of that — absent a native English speaking proofreader/editor. Erotica is full of those sort of hard to translate concepts. Mistranslated words like that would almost certainly result in decimated scores.

Probably just a hit and run rant where the OP will never return, so it's all pointless speculation anyway :)
 
Then I realized you're just preening like a peacock for a woman you're tying to impress. Not the first thread I've seen this in, won't be the last, the grabby boy playbook insists one keeps trying.

And that EB, is how one shoots penguins.
What, you're saying you've never heard of Karl and Groucho Marx?

Pop down to the library; it will have books, you can look them up. You know, catalogues and stuff ;).
 
But I would disagree about readers telling us whether they consider a story good or bad, unless you mean a small proportion of readers tell us, which I would agree is the case. I know people have commented on occasions about the tiny ratio of comments and votes to views and, although I remember the figure is incredibly low, I can’t remember what had been said.

...

I don’t think readers, in the main, bitch and moan scores are not representative. You do get the cases when someone leaves a disparaging comment (mostly anonymous) and subsequently another reader (much of the time named) disagrees but that’s not many.

...

I do think there are an awful lot of readers who are influenced by red.
I agree, readers don't comment much (I see about one comment per thousand Views), but their voting behaviour, in the overall statistical wash, is a form of comment, numerical rather than written. Sure, they all vote using whatever criteria they choose (and that might include a genuine use of a 1, versus the clown trolls who immediately jump to the last page and drop a one-bomb) but overall, the site's scoring system does provide a tilt to the see-saw.

And when the comment rate is higher, it's usually to say very good or very bad. If a story is smack bang in the middle of the bell curve, nobody is going to say that's a nice, average, run of the mill story.

I agree too, that generally speaking, readers don't bitch and moan, but when they do wander into a forum and comment about the scoring system, it's nearly always with a complaint of one sort or another. And when a writer wanders in and does the same thing, it's nearly always a woe is me sob - and very often, when you go check out their work, low scores are a surprise, how exactly?

Red Hs important? Of course they are. They're an immediate visual filter, a way for your story to stand out in a crowd. Whether it's a bigger penguin or a penguin on a rock, is a completely different thing. You have to step into the story to find out.
 
First of all, thank you for being someone who provides feedback. Feedback rates are awfully low. It's too bad you only comment when you don't like something. It's tremendously motivating for many authors when they get feedback about what you like, too. Of course, it's actually the negative criticism that's more helpful for improving one's writing.

As a reader, consider what you're trying to accomplish with your negative criticism. Do you just want to say you don't like something, do you leave your comment as a review for other readers, or do you want to show the author something they can do better so they can improve with the next story? If you want to help the author improve, you might consider sending anonymous feedback instead of commenting, if you've got a whole ton of negative stuff to unload on . I don't know this for a fact, but I wonder if some authors would be more open to the criticism that way.

When you do leave comments, I'd suggest you make the criticisms in a factual sort of way. Maybe you do. I haven't seen your comments. What I mean here is the difference between someone leaving a comment that says, "You have the vocabulary of a third-grader," and a comment that says something like, "varying the word choice would improve the story," or "I found the frequent word repetition distracting." A lot of authors do worry about word repetition. It can be hard to catch in your own writing.

If you already leave the comments constructively, there's not much you can do. If an author is too thin-skinned to take criticism, it's their loss. Just remember that there are feelings at the other end of that feedback.

Just my thoughts on it.

I think some may mistake directness with negativity, as making a comment is going beyond a simple vote. Comments tend to attract the extremes (either they really loved it or hated it). I understand (in this kind of setup) its easy to mistake intentions, but the fact that a technical criticism (any decent writing teacher will point out word repetition as problematic) being deleted is just indicative of a writer that may be overly fragile.
 
I think some may mistake directness with negativity, as making a comment is going beyond a simple vote. Comments tend to attract the extremes (either they really loved it or hated it). I understand (in this kind of setup) its easy to mistake intentions, but the fact that a technical criticism (any decent writing teacher will point out word repetition as problematic) being deleted is just indicative of a writer that may be overly fragile.

I agree as far as the people who delete comments. They'll never delete 'best story ever' even though that's obviously not true or helpful in anyway. If you're leaving the door open for comments you're going to get good bad and indifferent.

I can understand deleting something nasty and hateful(although I leave those up to) but when its a case of someone says "you used their instead of there' or a simple "Meh, didn't do anything for me' and it gets deleted, that's just thin skin.

There's the yammering person here who always squeals in their best high pitched outraged voice that no one here is a qualified editor, but you don't have to be one to know if a word is misspelled of misused.

On the other side of things, as far as my initial take here. This is a free site and its one thing to leave a comment or send a feedback saying "You tend to repeat yourself, you may want to look at that" and coming here to the forum to bitch about the quality of stories that you pay nothing to read.
 
I agree as far as the people who delete comments. They'll never delete 'best story ever' even though that's obviously not true or helpful in anyway. If you're leaving the door open for comments you're going to get good bad and indifferent.

I can understand deleting something nasty and hateful(although I leave those up to) but when its a case of someone says "you used their instead of there' or a simple "Meh, didn't do anything for me' and it gets deleted, that's just thin skin.

There's the yammering person here who always squeals in their best high pitched outraged voice that no one here is a qualified editor, but you don't have to be one to know if a word is misspelled of misused.

On the other side of things, as far as my initial take here. This is a free site and its one thing to leave a comment or send a feedback saying "You tend to repeat yourself, you may want to look at that" and coming here to the forum to bitch about the quality of stories that you pay nothing to read.

I think I've only deleted one comment, ever; it was nasty but completely irrelevant. If it was anything to do with the story, I leave it.

I mentioned that I had one negative comment from 2019 that turned out to be helpful after all.
 
I think some may mistake directness with negativity, as making a comment is going beyond a simple vote. Comments tend to attract the extremes (either they really loved it or hated it). I understand (in this kind of setup) its easy to mistake intentions, but the fact that a technical criticism (any decent writing teacher will point out word repetition as problematic) being deleted is just indicative of a writer that may be overly fragile.

But then those who feel compelled to put comments on stories pulling out some single minutia technical point are really saying more about their own need to be superior than the shortcomings of the stories--it's showing they are pretty fragile too. The Web site has made author deletion of any comment they want to delete allowable. Those who worry about what other authors are doing in this regard and pursue the point are showing as being as much fragile as any author choosing to delete the comments. I don't stick my nose in what anyone else is writing here unless they directly ask. Do a lot of it with a single author and you are just stalking them.
 
I think some may mistake directness with negativity, as making a comment is going beyond a simple vote. Comments tend to attract the extremes (either they really loved it or hated it). I understand (in this kind of setup) its easy to mistake intentions, but the fact that a technical criticism (any decent writing teacher will point out word repetition as problematic) being deleted is just indicative of a writer that may be overly fragile.

Perhaps I was too subtle. I'll try for the directness you value. If all you do is go through and gripe about mistakes, and you do it in a non-constructive fashion, you're only stroking your own ego. You'll accomplish nothing that way. You're not the author's writing teacher. You're the reader. The comments section is for you to provide feedback, not grade their paper.

While I appreciate it if a reader points out a mistake, it doesn't really have potential to improve my writing to learn that I made a typo somewhere, or used the word "cock" one too many times for the reader's taste. Once, I even used the wrong first name for a character introduced five chapters previously. That was a significant error, and I did appreciate hearing about it because I personally like to correct it on my copy, but it had no potential to improve my writing in the long term because it wasn't a mistake that would have repeated itself.

If you really think you can help someone improve by getting out your red pen, you I'd suggest sending anonymous feedback through the author portal, which is an option given right there beside the comments and scoring. It doesn't give you an audience for your critique, of course. That brings me to your pique about your comments being deleted. Why do you care? If it was only for the author's benefit, does it really matter if they deleted it? Or was it because you wanted your comment to be viewed by other people. If the latter is the case, I suggest writing your own story. Then you'll have the stage all to yourself.

What would be helpful is knowing what the reader liked and didn't like about the story. We can get help from copy editors if we need or want it. What is valuable to learn from readers has more to do with storytelling. What did you think of the characters? Were their motivations believable? Did you like/dislike the plot structure? Etc. Those aren't simple "gotchas," but if you genuinely want to help someone improve, that's the way to do it.

You've approached this from the standpoint that when people don't respond well to your criticism, it's because they are overly fragile. Instead of insisting that the problem is with everyone else, it might be helpful to recognize that rightly or wrongly, people don't take your criticism well, and that if you expect to accomplish anything with it, you need to find a way to deliver it in a manner that allows it to be effective.
 
I think I've only deleted one comment, ever; it was nasty but completely irrelevant. If it was anything to do with the story, I leave it.

I mentioned that I had one negative comment from 2019 that turned out to be helpful after all.

As much as we hate to admit it sometimes, the readers can be right. If they point out an inconsistency, and you look back, it might be there.

I think the average person who comments about an error or a grammar issue is trying to be helpful. That excludes things like "learn how to use a fucking comma" but i remember years ago someone pointing out I had an issue with "to/too...and they were right and that made me more conscious of it.
 
A mistake sometimes made here is that writers post stories here where comment is permitted only because they want to develop their writing. There are writers here who post purely to share what they write. If they want critique from a stranger of unknown ability they will directly request it or leave the "instruction" comments on their stories. If they don't, the Web site allows them to remove the comments. It's really nobody's business other than the author's what they choose to do about that, and the Web site gives them the power to control it. Anyone who takes umbrage at their "instruction" not being welcome--or just being erased--needs to look at why that is so---at what neediness of their own are they obsessed with?
 
Perhaps I was too subtle. I'll try for the directness you value. If all you do is go through and gripe about mistakes, and you do it in a non-constructive fashion, you're only stroking your own ego. You'll accomplish nothing that way. You're not the author's writing teacher. You're the reader. The comments section is for you to provide feedback, not grade their paper.

While I appreciate it if a reader points out a mistake, it doesn't really have potential to improve my writing to learn that I made a typo somewhere, or used the word "cock" one too many times for the reader's taste. Once, I even used the wrong first name for a character introduced five chapters previously. That was a significant error, and I did appreciate hearing about it because I personally like to correct it on my copy, but it had no potential to improve my writing in the long term because it wasn't a mistake that would have repeated itself.

If you really think you can help someone improve by getting out your red pen, you I'd suggest sending anonymous feedback through the author portal, which is an option given right there beside the comments and scoring. It doesn't give you an audience for your critique, of course. That brings me to your pique about your comments being deleted. Why do you care? If it was only for the author's benefit, does it really matter if they deleted it? Or was it because you wanted your comment to be viewed by other people. If the latter is the case, I suggest writing your own story. Then you'll have the stage all to yourself.

What would be helpful is knowing what the reader liked and didn't like about the story. We can get help from copy editors if we need or want it. What is valuable to learn from readers has more to do with storytelling. What did you think of the characters? Were their motivations believable? Did you like/dislike the plot structure? Etc. Those aren't simple "gotchas," but if you genuinely want to help someone improve, that's the way to do it.

You've approached this from the standpoint that when people don't respond well to your criticism, it's because they are overly fragile. Instead of insisting that the problem is with everyone else, it might be helpful to recognize that rightly or wrongly, people don't take your criticism well, and that if you expect to accomplish anything with it, you need to find a way to deliver it in a manner that allows it to be effective.

In the end it all comes down to every author handles their comments differently, with no general right or wrong, just what's right/wrong for them.

My personal opinion is deleting a comment-especially a nasty one-makes the troll think they got under my skin, which they don't. I also like to leave them there because sometimes other readers will troll the troll.

And as we see from this OP there is an air of thin skinned about it. That's just my take on it. But whenever the topic comes up I express the opinion.

Plus let's face it, sometimes it depends who we're talking about, if for example someone posts on the boards and is kind of a jerk and slings a lot of shit, then you see they delete comments because they can't take the same abuse they give out, that's a thin skin quantifier.
 
How would one know (or claim) that a writer was deleting comments on his/her stories unless "one" were monitoring that author--to stalk them or something--and had probably been the one to post the deleted comment to begin with? What sick obsession would make someone want to stalk an author here like that rather than just sticking to their own business? Sounds like abusive behavior to me--or one, certainly, based on an inferiority complex and need to attack for reasons entirely unrelated to the story. Probably justification for the Web site letting the writer have control over keeping or erasing comments. ;)
 
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Plus let's face it, sometimes it depends who we're talking about, if for example someone posts on the boards and is kind of a jerk and slings a lot of shit, then you see they delete comments because they can't take the same abuse they give out, that's a thin skin quantifier.


It takes highly obsessive stalking to monitor what an author here has done with comments on 1,200 posted stories. It's much easier, granted, if you're the one who anonymously posted the abusive comments to begin with that are being deleted. It's not hard to go back into 1,200-story accounts to check on how your own comments are faring. ;)

And, since I don't read much of anything in the file and almost never comment, it certainly would be interesting to see citations of any abuse I might have put into comments on any story posted to Literotica. But, then, it's easy to make up these sorts of charges and run a stalking PM hate campaign with them.
 
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Presumably so, yes, which would mean only allowing votes of signed-in account holders. That would be fine, except those down voting for the hell of it would just acquire more accounts.

Better solutions would seem to be either to broaden the highlighting--4.0 to 4.49 registering as "hot" and 4.5 and above as "Sizzling"--or to do away with the "hot" marker altogether and let the reader just see the number, which has only been provided for the last few years. Another good solution would be provide graphs for each story, showing the vote spread, as SOL does for its authors.

In any event, suggestions have been made for more than a decade now without response, so . . .

Wow, there could be no end to this. 3.5 to 3.99 could be "Tropical Sun" and 3.0 to 3.49 could be "Summer Breeze" or some such thing.

Summer Breeze would be a great name for a song. Oh wait, there already is one.
 
Wow, there could be no end to this. 3.5 to 3.99 could be "Tropical Sun" and 3.0 to 3.49 could be "Summer Breeze" or some such thing.

Summer Breeze would be a great name for a song. Oh wait, there already is one.

2.50 to 3.0 could be "Summer Doldrums"? And 2.0 to 2.5 "The Dregs"? Anything under that could be the "Bermuda Triangle."
 
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