Help With Opening

[Perfideous]

Thanks again everyone for the suggestions. I am now thinking that perhaps "dick" would be better for this character than "penis." We'll see.

As for the suggestion above about starting with chapter 2, that is solid advice. It's unfortunately does not work for me. No matter what type of writing I might be doing, everything flows from the opening. Once that is down, the rest comes easy. Even it is something as mundane as:

"COMES NOW Plaintiff, Richard P. Cocksmith, and respectfully asks the Court to grant this Motion for XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"

I need to get that Motion name down first and everything flows from there. It's just the way I think.

Actually I thought he was spot on. The thing is what you are writing isn't the start of the story. So start the story, it begins where it begins and a little teaser such as you have offered isn't the start of the story its like a trailer.

 

[sr71plt]

You keep making blanket statements about what the OP hasn't done right--as if you have the answers. My opinion is that you don't, they are just opinions--and not particularly good ones in this instance, I don't think.

I suggest the OP take any of this as opinions--and maybe do some checking on whatever the OP can on the background of those making suggestions and hone in on some whose writing he/she identifies with. Because there is no one (or two or three) "gotta" ways of opening a story.

The OP's opening is just fine. It will be validated or put into question by what follows. Fiction needs to be assessed on the whole work.

And the Internet notion that you become an instant expert in anything and everything just by posting on the Internet is a bunch of barf.

 

[Perfideous]

You keep making blanket statements about what the OP hasn't done right--as if you have the answers. My opinion is that you don't, they are just opinions--and not particularly good ones in this instance, I don't think.

I suggest the OP take any of this as opinions--and maybe do some checking on whatever the OP can on the background of those making suggestions and hone in on some whose writing he/she identifies with. Because there is no one (or two or three) "gotta" ways of opening a story.

The OP's opening is just fine. It will be validated or put into question by what follows. Fiction needs to be assessed on the whole work.

And the Internet notion that you become an instant expert in anything and everything just by posting on the Internet is a bunch of barf.

You arrogant Noddy.

It's always your precious opinion or it's wrong.

What is incorrect in what I have written?

I'm saying write the effing story and the opening will present it's self to him.

Which merely echoes what a previous post says. We are both right you are just so effing wrong it isn't funny.

 

[sr71plt]

Umm, no. Maybe you don't know the difference between a pronouncement and an opinion. In your last post you wrote "The thing is what you are writing isn't the start of the story."

Which, frankly, was bullshit. What the OP wrote was a perfectly fine opening.

If you wish to play a game of "whose is bigger?" (although the OP could figure that out for him/herself with a minimum of research), be my guest in establishing your credentials with the Editorial Forum moderators. I have done so. Short of that you're just full of gas.

The dangerous thing about asking for help on the Internet is that three-quarters of the advice that comes back is from folks who don't know any more about the subject matter than the one asking for advice does. Your posts (and your story file here) leave me with the opinion that you are well down the list in that three-quarters on giving writing pronouncements as you have done here.

I'm sure that you (and others) like to say it's arrogance. I like to think of it as actually having put the time and effort to getting the proper credentials to give constructive advice. Saying it's arrogance is just another tool of those relying on the Easy Button and wishful thinking about their abilities.

I think the height of arrogance is you giving writing guidance here at all, Perfidious.

The opening given by the OP here is just fine. It either will be validated or put into question by what follows.

The OP probably would have been best served just to write the story and submit it rather than ask for what was given as THE way to do it.

 

[LWulf]

I don't think the author is having any trouble with this opening.

I personally don't use a prewritten character sheet either. It tends to make you want to make use of character traits you've planned that don't have anything to do with what you actually are writing. I do have some traits in mind before I start writing that I know (or think) are going to be used, but I set nothing like this in concrete, which makes it a lot easier to discard when it doesn't turn out to be useful in the story as it writes itself.

To each his own on this, though.

...uh, this thread is titled: Help With Opening


yup, I didn't mean to suggest that character sheets is the only way to start, just a way of getting over a difficult issue.

 

[sr71plt]

...uh, this thread is titled: Help With Opening

Yep, it is. And so?

We both gave opinions on the help that character sheets can give. They are a two-edged sword. Your suggestion was for a very formal, detailed, and, I think, limiting, way to start off. Different strokes for different folks. There are writers who find detailed outlining like that useful. We periodically have that discussion here.

 

[jezzaz]

My feeling is that honestly, you don't need any help.

What you need is validation. You wouldn't have written what you wrote if that wasn't what you were trying to say.

I think there's several different types of story to be told, in different styles. There's the direct - "I did this, she did that, there was cum everywhere" which is about an immediacy style. It's about telling exactly what happened and inviting the reader to decide what they feel about that - create their own back story, so to speak.

There are a lot of these stories on LE, and it's a totally legitimate way of telling what happened.

It's not much of a story though - it's more a record than a story.

A story - in my view, and this is only my opinion to be sure - evokes emotion and attempts to both evoke emotion in the reader as well as explain not only the what of what happened, but give clues to the why as well? But it requires a investment of the reader in terms of wading through the background and so on, that they may not want to give. Particularly not a literary site like this which is as much about people getting their rocks off as it is people enjoying the way a story is told.

I like the concept that the opening is giving background rather than getting directly into the nitty gritty instantly. I think to be sure that it's riskier, because you are relying on the quality of writing to hold the interest beyond the initial paragraph, but if you can do that (and I freely admit that I personally fail more than I succeed) then you've got investment on the part of the reader that goes beyond the titillation of descriptions of sex, fun those they may be. That will serve you in good stead should the story lack anything on the plot-makes-sense front, or dialog-is-a-bit-ropey. Read anything by Dan Brown and you'll see what I mean.

My point is that you should make you own decisions based on not only the stories you want to tell, but how you want to do it. As a retelling of events or a personal review, with background to back it up. There is nothing wrong with either approach and never let anyone tell you there is.

 

[Perfideous]

Umm, no. Maybe you don't know the difference between a pronouncement and an opinion. In your last post you wrote "The thing is what you are writing isn't the start of the story."

Which, frankly, was bullshit. What the OP wrote was a perfectly fine opening.

If you wish to play a game of "whose is bigger?" (although the OP could figure that out for him/herself with a minimum of research), be my guest in establishing your credentials with the Editorial Forum moderators. I have done so. Short of that you're just full of gas.

The dangerous thing about asking for help on the Internet is that three-quarters of the advice that comes back is from folks who don't know any more about the subject matter than the one asking for advice does. Your posts (and your story file here) leave me with the opinion that you are well down the list in that three-quarters on giving writing pronouncements as you have done here.

I'm sure that you (and others) like to say it's arrogance. I like to think of it as actually having put the time and effort to getting the proper credentials to give constructive advice. Saying it's arrogance is just another tool of those relying on the Easy Button and wishful thinking about their abilities.

I think the height of arrogance is you giving writing guidance here at all, Perfidious.

The opening given by the OP here is just fine. It either will be validated or put into question by what follows.

The OP probably would have been best served just to write the story and submit it rather than ask for what was given as THE way to do it.

With most other members there is an exchange of views; we might be persuaded, we might not but with you it's different.

Anyone holding a contrary view to your own is insulted and your view is given as gospel.

I haven't been here long but I have read enough crap from you to know the friendless sad cow you are.

Three words for you moo, rot in hell.

 

[lovecraft68]

No Pilot, credentials and experience does not translate into arrogance.

Arrogance (and insecurity I might add) comes in when not a day can go by without you trying to throw your credentials out there.

See there is a thing referred to as self confidence and people who have that do not need to continuously go "Oh, yeah, well I'm this" only insecure people, arrogant jerks and foot stomping petulant children do. You of course fall under all three.

Most would state their opinion and say okay, do whatever you want. No, you have to keep going with well I'm this and I'm that and you should listen.

Because for someone who has had so much alleged success you shouldn't need to try to impress people here

But then again that just proves to me your success is as made up as everything else you tout here.

BTW write any laws for the Government lately? That was the all time best.

If people like the opening fine if they don't that is fine too. In reality no one is write or wrong it comes down to taste and opinion.

Just because it may be grammatically correct does not mean its good.

The wording is stilted and clunky and reads like stereo instructions, I would not read much further.

then again stilted and clunky is how you write. No wonder you like it.

 

[lovecraft68]

With most other members there is an exchange of views; we might be persuaded, we might not but with you it's different.

Anyone holding a contrary view to your own is insulted and your view is given as gospel.

I haven't been here long but I have read enough crap from you to know the friendless sad cow you are.

Three words for you moo, rot in hell.

Just so you know? No one needs to show credentials here to be an editor its all volunteer.

Pilot's "vetting" that he claims is showing his alleged web site to another member here.

That's his credentials.

So, hey, want to see the web site I created where I say I'm the true founder of Hustler and Flint was just my unemployed uncle? I can make one that says it you know.

Ah, the internet, a liars paradise.

 

[sr71plt]

I'll stick with reality. (And, no, my vetting with the Editors Forum moderators wasn't just a Web site link.) Those who claim the expertise but won't do anything about vetting it here when I have can just stay behind the eight ball on that. And anyone asking for help who doesn't check out what they can on the demonstrated expertise for giving that help is cruising for a bruising and doesn't care much for their development and work. But that's their choice.

Posturing by those who show nothing is just that, posturing. (In Lovecraft68's case it's obsessive, rabid hate campaigning and jealously, of course. )

 

[Derroreaper]

With most other members there is an exchange of views; we might be persuaded, we might not but with you it's different.

Anyone holding a contrary view to your own is insulted and your view is given as gospel.

I haven't been here long but I have read enough crap from you to know the friendless sad cow you are.

Three words for you moo, rot in hell.

And the same can easily be said about you. I had an opposing view and you went off on me, so give it a rest.

 

[robertreams]

I am a writer by trade, but I have not written fiction for at least 15 years. I write rather dry and boring things about the law. However, I have had a story in my head for months now that needs to come out. My problem is not unusual: getting started and getting a decent opening. I finally have a couple of paragraphs worked up. I'm wondering if anyone can give some feedback. Any thoughts on how effective they are would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

"Normally, I need a cup of coffee or two before I feel completely awake in the morning. However, when my younger sister has just put her mouth around my penis, sucked it all the way down to the base once, and then walked out of my bedroom, it is not a normal morning. It's definitely not what I thought would happen when we moved in together; It's not what I thought would happen when I put on her panties last night; And, it's not what I thought would happen when she caught me wearing those panties this morning.

That is what happened though. I think. Whatever it was, it certainly woke me up. I lay there but I don't know that I have the right word to describe what I felt. Stupefied? Dumbfounded? Shocked? Embarrassed? They all work to one degree or another describe my reaction. I wondered if she was still drunk from the night before. Perhaps, I was still drunk, but it didn't feel like I was. It didn't feel like a dream or my imagination either. My sister had really done that. But, why? To what purpose? And, more importantly, what was I supposed to do now? Was I supposed to chase after her, throw her down and fuck her? Somehow, that didn't seem right. Doing nothing didn't seem right either. I was paralyzed by all of these questions, so of course I did nothing. Eventually, I started thinking about how it all happened."

Your opening is good if you have somewhere else to go. I suspect that you may have given too much away, but I don't know the rest of the story. Your writing is well done grammatically, but I think you might want to consider: this is a guy talking to himself, try to make it sound as you would sound if actually talking to yourself.

As for "penis" those who criticize it are full of shit! It is often good to use more clinical terms penis, vagina, etc early in a story and save the big ugly nasty ones for the climax,(pun intended, It is fine to say she unzipped me and reached inside to fondle my penis. But it is not okay to have her say, " Yes, Oh Yes, put your penis in me, get the idea?

 

[_Lynn_]

Your opening is good if you have somewhere else to go. I suspect that you may have given too much away, but I don't know the rest of the story. Your writing is well done grammatically, but I think you might want to consider: this is a guy talking to himself, try to make it sound as you would sound if actually talking to yourself.

As for "penis" those who criticize it are full of shit! It is often good to use more clinical terms penis, vagina, etc early in a story and save the big ugly nasty ones for the climax,(pun intended, It is fine to say she unzipped me and reached inside to fondle my penis. But it is not okay to have her say, " Yes, Oh Yes, put your penis in me, get the idea?

It's fine for her to use penis at that time if that wording fits the character.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Best advice offered:

The essential elements are there. Wax on, wax off, Daniel-san.

... its your story to do your way so have fun ... with it.

... write a character sheet for every character to flesh out the character's motivations.

... don't use a prewritten character sheet ...

What you need is validation.

Here's my advice: Write the damn story as well as you can in the way it comes to you. Re-write/edit as needed and then release it into the wild, let it go and start writing a new story. Rinse. Repeat.