How do I let her know...

[DiscoveringUtopia]

So far you haven't said a word about what you would really like to see happen between you and your wife. How come?

I know my first question would be Why. My next would be Do you still love me. Etc.

But if you only think she is cheating...

Then the question would have to be...

I feel we are drifting apart, would you be willing to see a counselor to work on our relationship to be closer? As close as we were when we got married?

Of course you should be ready to reply to her question, because she will answer your question with a question.

Of course she could just say yes. Now what? And if she is cheating will this fix it?

Without proof there can be no confrontation. If you have proof and confront her, there might be just a lot of crying on both your parts or she could go into WWIII mode. It's all up to you how you present the proof to her.

Personally, I would welcome WWIII, from her if I had the proof and laid it all out in front of her. WWIII mode means she's at least feeling guilt. Crying also means that. It's indifference I would worry about. That means she doesn't care if you know. That is the marriage killer. Just my Opinion there.

I've always been a make sure you know all sides possible before making a decision kind of guy. That's why I haven't responded to every post or laid out my plans.

I know she loves me and I love her. That's what makes this so difficult. I have more evidence now than I did a week ago. Have I seen her with anyone? No. Do I know for a fact she's actually meeting someone? In order for it to be a fact, I'd have to be there.

So really I'm in limbo. We had a minor confrontation yesterday. I know she's got a separate fictional FB account. I've been on it and seen who she's messaging with. But outside of a keystroke program, I can only imagine the PM's.

This is for everyone, I really do appreciate ALL of the advice given so far. And I appreciate both the male and female inputs whether here or on PM.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

While the internet has cause a lot of bad behavior and rudeness around the world, in America a lot has been caused by the Politically Correctness Police. Our country is raising a generation of "snowflakes" whose feeling get hurt at the drop of a hat. Then when they grow up into Adult Snowflakes... well you figure it out. It just seems that everyone's skin is very, very thin these days and the need to grow the fuck up.

Bravo. Couldn't have said it better!

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

I agree with previous posters. If you are afraid of a scandal, then this means that you've accepted it. This means that causing "WWIII" is more important to you than accusing her.

You need to ask yourself several questions.

1) Are you totally, 100%, with solid-steel evidence sure that she has cheated? Or is it more of a suspicion with no hard evidence?

2) Do you even WANT to bring that up? What are your goals with that talk? Do you hope to ensure she doesn't do tat again, or do you simply feel like you're obligated to talk about things like that?

3) Why do you feel it will cause WW3? On your part, are you afraid that you're gonna lose your temper? Or do you think that SHE is going to go off the rails? Does she have any real ground for doing so? Because she might, so I'm just saying.

4) Have you considered bringing it to an open relationship? Perhaps it is important to her to have outside relationships, or perhaps you for any reason cannot really perform your husbandry duty? Maybe you should have a talk with a goal of establishing that she can see other men as long as she's honest with you? You can frame it up as your relationship and family is more important to you than cheating itself.

5) Also, you are yourself in your signature state that you are looking for FWB. It kinda makes her "cheating" excusable, don't you think? You are at least on equal grounds.

1. Go into court evidence? Not at this time.
2. To quote Billy Joel: Honesty is hardly ever heard, and mostly what I need from you.
3. I've mellowed a "whole bunch" but both of us have that capability.
Grounds to derail? No, but that's never stopped her before...
4. I've actually considered that recently. And might again in the future. But I'd
need her to be honest first.
5. I've always been honest with her. She knows I get the 'itch' every few months.
Whats that old joke, When she grows a dick it'll be cheating.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I have been married for 44 years, yes to the same woman. I know a long time. We have both cheated on each other. I didn't because she didn't first.

That was around the 7 year itch time frame. We confessed to each other. And moved on.

If I caught her now, I feel I would divorce her, even after 44 years. I know it's too late in my life to start over and I wouldn't but I wouldn't want to live with her if she was cheating on me with someone when she only lets me in once in awhile.

So, today, I would kick her to the curb. It would be harsh, but that's the way i feel now. Back a long, long way in our past, I didn't feel that way. But looking back, hindsight is 20/20 and maybe I should have back then. My life would have been completely different that's for sure.

Better? Who knows? I didn't and wouldn't have back then nor now.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

I have been married for 44 years, yes to the same woman. I know a long time. We have both cheated on each other. I didn't because she didn't first.

That was around the 7 year itch time frame. We confessed to each other. And moved on.

If I caught her now, I feel I would divorce her, even after 44 years. I know it's too late in my life to start over and I wouldn't but I wouldn't want to live with her if she was cheating on me with someone when she only lets me in once in awhile.

So, today, I would kick her to the curb. It would be harsh, but that's the way i feel now. Back a long, long way in our past, I didn't feel that way. But looking back, hindsight is 20/20 and maybe I should have back then. My life would have been completely different that's for sure.

Better? Who knows? I didn't and wouldn't have back then nor now.

After I got out of the Army we moved to a beach community. We sewed enough wild oats to supply Quaker for a lifetime. Since everything was either together or condoned no apologies or confessions were needed. I could have lived my life like that. Everything was so open and honest. Within a few years of leaving there, she went underground with it and our misery started.

 

[Que]

It is interesting that you know that the reaction to being called it will be for her to go off.

That's actually pretty perceptive of you and it suggests though that you've been through some version of this before. It's not at all uncommon for the offending party to suddenly act aggrieved that they have been called on their behavior.

Obviously, especially in long-term relationships, simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not often wise and it is wise to be circumspect about both how you approached it and what you want the ultimate outcome to be. I think you need to think about that and decide for sure where you're going with this before you approach her.

My view is you don't really have a working relationship at this point. If you used to have one then of course trying to recapture that is probably not unreasonable.

If it's always been problematic...painful though it will be, it's probably best you simply move on. You could actually do so without even ever calling her on her behavior.

 

[tribelover330]

I'll be the first to let you know I'm not the sharpest tac in the box. And I know I don't comprehend very well sometimes. If I'm reading this correctly, you think she's cheating on you. But on the bottom of your post, I think in the signature part, you mention you are looking for fwb.

1)Does she know you are looking for a fwb?
2)Is it OK for you to cheat on her with your fwb and not her?
3)IMO, talk to her.

 

[LupusDei]

I'm unsure how much advice it can be, as it may not apply, but I feel like leaving a personal story here.

It wasn't a marriage, but we were counting years together and really invested in our relationship. At least I was. She wasn't that much younger than me, but was a virgin when I picked her up after having quite a wild streak in my life so in matter of experience we were almost different generations, especially considering she was a mathematician and typically slightly antisocial, having a stack of emotional problems and rather limited social circle: few female friends and her older sister and her husband and their friends. And that was where this guy come from.

He was quite interesting fellow in his own right, but didn't fit the pattern of academic types and country musicians that was her typical casual acquaintances according to her interests. There I must say, I didn't fit that pattern either, and that's why I was growing worried when we started to spend a lot of time with that guy around (since she had quite specific and I rather broad tastes it was she who planned most of our entertainment).

I and her, we had really intense communication going (on the level of handwritten love letters daily, on top of together time and endless phone calls, it was a bit crazy even, in hindsight), so it wasn't too hard one evening to steer conversation to that guy. I laid out what I said above and flat out asked what the deal with that guy is, why she seems interested in him. And she, with little hesitation, admitted all she wants from him is his big dick. I guess I could, and should, put an end to it then and there, although I'm still unsure how exactly that must have been done. But I was like, if that's really the extent of it, you may as well have some fun, but that guy, he will probably hurt you and us, he's just that type.

She admitted it's not so easy with him. Then, few days later she send me a file containing three months worth of sexting and love letters with him. That was a bit unexpected, I had no idea it's that serious. From that point on I received nearly daily reports on her "progress" on him. I inadvertently slipped into kind of competition mode myself. In a way, it was lot of fun for a short while.

Then one day she lied to me. I immediately knew what happened, and shortly it was confirmed, she had moved in with him. Somehow, it still was a lot of a shock for me, and it hurt a lot. But then I rationalised it somehow, and restarted our communication.

We both knew it won't last. Two months in, he was coming home mostly drunk and was beating her. And she was dumping it all out on me, and I was like, I told you so, and she 'cheated' on him with me. I was ready to welcome her back home anytime, and let her know that.

What happened next shocked and amused me at the same time. She did leave that guy as I expected, but she didn't come back to me, instead she went to another guy I haven't even heard about before. Needless to say, our friend big dick was completely devastated. He went and signed up for a polar expedition. Seriously.

And then that become a pattern. For next five years she went through a lot of short term mostly disfunctional relationships always ending it by bouncing to the next guy overnight, unexpectedly for anyone but me. Because I continued to be her 'best female friend' knowing everything about about her sex life, and a secret lover at the same time. Or not as secret sometimes, few of those guys she introduced to me openly declaring I'm her first and have first hand on her still, and they are just borrowing her. Now I guess she expected me one of those times to kidnap her, bring home and chain to our bed for a week. Unthinkable in our original relationship, by that time she probably would love it all.

But back then I was still too nice a guy, and in unbelievably naive honesty expected her to return on her own someday. That didn't happen of course. It was a strange relationship, we slowly drifted away as could be expected but at the same time our infrequent sex did feel almost incestuous by the end. It was like our age difference only had grown, and I had adopted her as a daughter or something.

Then she married, this time unexpectedly even for me. Happily as far I know. Telling, I wasn't invited to her wedding. I tried to let her go, and our communication finally dripped dry to nothing. That was more than a decade ago, but I still have some of her clothes in my closet. Crazy, I know.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

After I got out of the Army we moved to a beach community. We sewed enough wild oats to supply Quaker for a lifetime. Since everything was either together or condoned no apologies or confessions were needed. I could have lived my life like that. Everything was so open and honest. Within a few years of leaving there, she went underground with it and our misery started.

I wish you luck and hope everything turns out the way you want it to.

 

[Nezhul]

1. Go into court evidence? Not at this time.

I was meaning to say that sometimes people are SURE, 100% confident that their partner cheated, and later it turns out that they did not and it was just jealousy+coincidential evidence. Like "She didn't pick up the phone, and her co-worker said she got off work early. A-ha!
I don't know what it is in your case, just make sure she really cheated before any accusations fly. Because they can hurt and ruin a lot.

Also when I think about what I'd personally do if my partner cheated on me, I always imagine myself asking a question: "What was it that compelled her in the first place? Maybe it's something I could provide to her myself?"

People are weird. Sometimes it's easier to open up to a stranger than to you beloved. Take BDSM for example - for many people it's really hard to start that talk, because they always imagine that their partner would disapprove or refuse to participate and then you have to live with that hanging over you. While at the same time it's easier to do that with a stranger because you can't care less about what they think of you.
What I'm saying is - you should get to the root of the cause. Maybe I'm naive, but it seems to me that most cheating desires can be resolved by having a great sex life to begin with and always finding means to improve it.

But in general, if you are confident she cheated - I would get into the right headspace, sit down and have a calm talk about it. I know it's hard. But the longer you wait the harder it becomes. It's quite easy to confront her (calmly) when it just happened. But it's much harder to have a productive conversation starting with "I know you've cheated 7 years ago!"
By that time it becomes a thing of the past that is unworthy to dig up, honestly. At that point it serves nothing but to hurt and antagonize each other.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

I'll be the first to let you know I'm not the sharpest tac in the box. And I know I don't comprehend very well sometimes. If I'm reading this correctly, you think she's cheating on you. But on the bottom of your post, I think in the signature part, you mention you are looking for fwb.

1)Does she know you are looking for a fwb?
2)Is it OK for you to cheat on her with your fwb and not her?
3)IMO, talk to her.

For a dull tack you are very perceptive.

She knows I'm bi. She doesn't particularly care for it or care to witness it. Ok for her to be but not me. Go figure. I've always said if I'm on this earth long enough to figure out American women, I've overstayed my welcome.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

It is interesting that you know that the reaction to being called it will be for her to go off.

That's actually pretty perceptive of you and it suggests though that you've been through some version of this before. It's not at all uncommon for the offending party to suddenly act aggrieved that they have been called on their behavior.

Obviously, especially in long-term relationships, simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not often wise and it is wise to be circumspect about both how you approached it and what you want the ultimate outcome to be. I think you need to think about that and decide for sure where you're going with this before you approach her.

My view is you don't really have a working relationship at this point. If you used to have one then of course trying to recapture that is probably not unreasonable.

If it's always been problematic...painful though it will be, it's probably best you simply move on. You could actually do so without even ever calling her on her behavior.

Regarding reactions... I'll just say that in our 36 years I've seen every reaction she has.

Actually we have a good relationship. She is very receptive on the sexual side. She still makes breakfast daily. Life on the homefront is good. Is she overcompensating? Maybe. Who knows?

Moving on at this point isn't being considered. I'm an eternal optimist. It's more of a question of how to get to point b or c or whatever point is next.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

I'm unsure how much advice it can be, as it may not apply, but I feel like leaving a personal story here.

It wasn't a marriage, but we were counting years together and really invested in our relationship. At least I was. She wasn't that much younger than me, but was a virgin when I picked her up after having quite a wild streak in my life so in matter of experience we were almost different generations, especially considering she was a mathematician and typically slightly antisocial, having a stack of emotional problems and rather limited social circle: few female friends and her older sister and her husband and their friends. And that was where this guy come from.

He was quite interesting fellow in his own right, but didn't fit the pattern of academic types and country musicians that was her typical casual acquaintances according to her interests. There I must say, I didn't fit that pattern either, and that's why I was growing worried when we started to spend a lot of time with that guy around (since she had quite specific and I rather broad tastes it was she who planned most of our entertainment).

I and her, we had really intense communication going (on the level of handwritten love letters daily, on top of together time and endless phone calls, it was a bit crazy even, in hindsight), so it wasn't too hard one evening to steer conversation to that guy. I laid out what I said above and flat out asked what the deal with that guy is, why she seems interested in him. And she, with little hesitation, admitted all she wants from him is his big dick. I guess I could, and should, put an end to it then and there, although I'm still unsure how exactly that must have been done. But I was like, if that's really the extent of it, you may as well have some fun, but that guy, he will probably hurt you and us, he's just that type.

She admitted it's not so easy with him. Then, few days later she send me a file containing three months worth of sexting and love letters with him. That was a bit unexpected, I had no idea it's that serious. From that point on I received nearly daily reports on her "progress" on him. I inadvertently slipped into kind of competition mode myself. In a way, it was lot of fun for a short while.

Then one day she lied to me. I immediately knew what happened, and shortly it was confirmed, she had moved in with him. Somehow, it still was a lot of a shock for me, and it hurt a lot. But then I rationalised it somehow, and restarted our communication.

We both knew it won't last. Two months in, he was coming home mostly drunk and was beating her. And she was dumping it all out on me, and I was like, I told you so, and she 'cheated' on him with me. I was ready to welcome her back home anytime, and let her know that.

What happened next shocked and amused me at the same time. She did leave that guy as I expected, but she didn't come back to me, instead she went to another guy I haven't even heard about before. Needless to say, our friend big dick was completely devastated. He went and signed up for a polar expedition. Seriously.

And then that become a pattern. For next five years she went through a lot of short term mostly disfunctional relationships always ending it by bouncing to the next guy overnight, unexpectedly for anyone but me. Because I continued to be her 'best female friend' knowing everything about about her sex life, and a secret lover at the same time. Or not as secret sometimes, few of those guys she introduced to me openly declaring I'm her first and have first hand on her still, and they are just borrowing her. Now I guess she expected me one of those times to kidnap her, bring home and chain to our bed for a week. Unthinkable in our original relationship, by that time she probably would love it all.

But back then I was still too nice a guy, and in unbelievably naive honesty expected her to return on her own someday. That didn't happen of course. It was a strange relationship, we slowly drifted away as could be expected but at the same time our infrequent sex did feel almost incestuous by the end. It was like our age difference only had grown, and I had adopted her as a daughter or something.

Then she married, this time unexpectedly even for me. Happily as far I know. Telling, I wasn't invited to her wedding. I tried to let her go, and our communication finally dripped dry to nothing. That was more than a decade ago, but I still have some of her clothes in my closet. Crazy, I know.

Wow. I believe you because no one could make that up! And I understand completely. I think most men have someone in their past (maybe not to your extent) that will never leave their mind or heart. Mine was a student of the school I taught while in the Army. She was from Otumwa Iowa. Which I found amusing since I was a Radar ATController. The courses were only 26 weeks and we were together for most of that. But I knew that the nights she had 'barracks duty' she was spending with other instructors to get through the toughest parts of the course. Long story short, I ran into her in an arcade on the beach where my wire and I lived a few years later. 2 kids and as cute as ever. We ended up having coffee (literally) and watched her kids play. I don't think theres a day that goes by that I don't think of her.

 

[Que]

Regarding reactions... I'll just say that in our 36 years I've seen every reaction she has.

Actually we have a good relationship. She is very receptive on the sexual side. She still makes breakfast daily. Life on the homefront is good. Is she overcompensating? Maybe. Who knows?

Moving on at this point isn't being considered. I'm an eternal optimist. It's more of a question of how to get to point b or c or whatever point is next.

Seems a strange place to be in. Not that it doesn't make sense as you described it. But the benefits are such and or loyalty that you're definitely staying then I would say just let it lie. Because what is going to be accomplished by bringing it out into the light?

She'll either tire of her dalliance and her lack of transparency or she wont.

My ex-wife and I got to a point where we were very honest and open and it seemed pretty great to me. Sometimes though having secrets has its own appeal.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

Seems a strange place to be in. Not that it doesn't make sense as you described it. But the benefits are such and or loyalty that you're definitely staying then I would say just let it lie. Because what is going to be accomplished by bringing it out into the light?

She'll either tire of her dalliance and her lack of transparency or she wont.

My ex-wife and I got to a point where we were very honest and open and it seemed pretty great to me. Sometimes though having secrets has its own appeal.

Well,

 

[NightL]

Soon to be 37 years of marriage is a long time to throw away.

Maybe the decision has already been made and out of your control - be prepared for that

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

Maybe the decision has already been made and out of your control - be prepared for that

Very possible. I remember my granddad used to say, "Son, you can't win with women, they own half the land and all the pussy."

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

2 days and nothing. I don't think I've ever gone this long without talking to anyone. Just basic conversation. Yes, no.. I'm fine. That type. Fixed my own meals and have listened to a ton of music on the headphones. Even shaved my beard down to nothing. I think the hair is next.

 

[Hypoxia]

Very possible. I remember my granddad used to say, "Son, you can't win with women, they own half the land and all the pussy."

And that's why women rule the human world, right?

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

And that's why women rule the human world, right?

So they say...

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

Cold house and not because it's November

I feel like I've been in a tennis match all this week. Volley's going both ways and very few points scored.

It's now common knowledge that the FB page for the bf does exist. She says she hasn't been on it for a few days. No biggie since messenger can operate without it. To my amazement, I've been rather calm. I think in a way this is more upsetting to her than a blow-up. I've made no overtures in the bedroom at all. Not sure where this is going and at this point it really doesn't matter.

 

[NightL]

Instead, ask her to take some positive action like, "Would you be willing to work on our relationship with a counselor?"

Also, you don't even have to establish the cheating before you say this.

You have to find out if there is indeed an issue to deal with and that has to be established before any suggestion of counselling.

Simple communication may resolve an issue that may be simple.

If you sit and wait for things to explode they probably will, even if there is no infidelity.

"How do you view our relationship at the moment? I am feeling there is distance and I would like to improve things. Can we talk about this? I am willing to listen and work on any issues concerning you."​

Make sure that in offering to listen that you do exactly that. When responding, talk of how the message impacts you - start your sentences with "I" as in "I am feeling worried...". If you appear accusing and start in with "You..." it is likely to turn into a combat situation and defences will instantly go up.

Time and again people talk of relationship issues here while avoiding communication with the very person they are concerned over.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

And I quit smoking this morning.

 

[DiscoveringUtopia]

You have to find out if there is indeed an issue to deal with and that has to be established before any suggestion of counselling.

Simple communication may resolve an issue that may be simple.

If you sit and wait for things to explode they probably will, even if there is no infidelity.

"How do you view our relationship at the moment? I am feeling there is distance and I would like to improve things. Can we talk about this? I am willing to listen and work on any issues concerning you."​

Make sure that in offering to listen that you do exactly that. When responding, talk of how the message impacts you - start your sentences with "I" as in "I am feeling worried...". If you appear accusing and start in with "You..." it is likely to turn into a combat situation and defences will instantly go up.

Time and again people talk of relationship issues here while avoiding communication with the very person they are concerned over.

I'll agree with everyone that has ever responded to a thread such as this that communication is the key. However, in cases such as mine, where the conversation as happened before you know what will be said and the tone it will be said in.

I realize that my actions, or lack thereof, in the past has led to being there again. I know that somewhere in my head resides a cuck that because of my love for her allows it to continue. Yet during pillow talk I have told her that "seeing her suck a hard cock" would be hot, I get a response of "I don't need anyone else."

Mixed signals indeed...

 

[NightL]

somewhere in my head resides a cuck

hmm maybe you don't belong here

may be try

Fetish & Sexuality Central
http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=58

err the cuck thing and "how many people can I get to talk about myself" slips away here at How To...