Humiliation as a Punishment

[Netzach]

You're starting to bother me.

I've never seen Secretary. She's not exhibiting eating disorder traits, she's lost some weight. Let's not jump to conclusions here. It doesn't even appear that she's trying to lose any weight, she just is.

I've never hit her because she wasn't eating. I don't want to humiliate her because she's not eating. She is eating, she's just also losing weight. And I'm angry because when I show concern about it she feels like she's being treated like a child and acts out (like a child).

And yes, all problems I don't understand are insane girl problems. Like why you feel the need to act like a miserable bitch.

You're contradicting yourself. If you're worried about an underlying psychological issue for weight loss, then that's a disordered behavior to some degree. A lot of people have disordered relationships to food, not everyone is going all full on Karen Carpenter. Her reaction being an over-reaction points in this direction too - if you're honest with yourself, you'd probably agree. People don't get volatile about concern unless the behavior bothers them too, usually.

I'm calling it like I see it like everyone else is. If that's being a miserable bitch, so be it.

Controlling things you aren't comfortable having discussions about is really playing darts in the dark. You said you don't have deep conversations, well, you're playing with deep shit now.

 

[your_vice]

Your_vice, that's incredibly helpful, thank you. It's not that I find her less attractive (really it's not even a lot of weight she's lost, just enough for me to notice) it's that I'm worried that it's indicative of something more serious -- whether physical or psychological. And I would never criticize the way she looks -- I mean even now the worst thing I'll call her is a child, and that's when she's acting like one. I guess I don't know how to ask her about why she's losing weight because we don't talk very often about serious things. It's definitely time, though. If she's not happy I want to know about it, and if she is but something else is wrong I want to know about it.

I'd be absolutely willing to step back, if she wants just rough sex without the control that's fine, not ideal but I want to be with her.

It might be important for her to hear that from you. She may feel she's passed some point of no return with you and that there's no way back now to a more equal footing. By offering her that as an option and making sure she knows you value her relationship with her over the kinky stuff, you'll probably make her feel much more secure. I know you haven't been criticising the way she looks but just knowing you preferred her with more meat on her bones may be enough to make her worry about your future together. If she's eating well and still not gaining weight, she should visit her GP for a health check to make sure there's no underlying medical cause. If it's stress or depression of some kind though, she may well need you to step back. Hopefully it'll just be a temporary thing but I think it's absolutely time for a serious chat. While she shouldn't expect you to be a mind reader, you should tell her that you know something's not right and encourage her to confide in you. The flipside to hot violence and rough sex should be a deep bond of trust and emotional closeness. If you go too long with one and not the other, things will inevitably break down. She should know that she can speak freely to you and that you want to understand what's going on with her. Some submissive types find it hard to bring their problems to their partner because they feel they're being needy and burdensome. She may just need the green light that says you want a deeper emotional connection and to be trusted with her worries.

 

[unknooown]

You're contradicting yourself. If you're worried about an underlying psychological issue for weight loss, then that's a disordered behavior to some degree.

I'm calling it like I see it like everyone else is. If that's being a miserable bitch, so be it.

You were defensive from the start. Nothing in the OP indicated that I look down on BDSM in any way, but that's how you interpreted it. Everyone else at least had the decency to engage me in a discussion -- you threw out a couple snarky one-liners and felt your work was done.

Furthermore, my concern about her losing weight being indicative of a psychological issue is more along the lines of maybe she's stressed and as a result her appetite has suffered. Did it ever occur to you that I know her better than you do?

 

[Netzach]

Most people's reaction was "zomgz abuse" in some form. I thought to myself that that was kind of knee-jerk. But you want to take issue with what I said, which is basically that your desire not to negotiate in an overt way was hindering you, and your desire not to negotiate was likely due to your "outside of SM" identification.

Of course you know her better. You are, however, posting here and expecting people to do their own interpretation between the lines. Presumably because someone might see something you're missing.

Good luck with your relationship.

 

[00Syd]

If you interpret what Netz has said as bitchy, then I don't know how you'll ever manage to interpret your girlfriend's actions.

 

[unknooown]

Defensive more than anything.

Anyway, the girlfriend just walked in. Let's see how this goes.

 

[unknooown]

Well that lifted a tremendous weight off my shoulders.

Luckily she was willing (almost eager) to talk about what's been going on. Bottom line is she's very stressed (promotion at work: a lot more responsibility for not much more pay, and her mother has been pretty ill for months now) and her appetite is pretty much gone. She's also been spending more time at the gym because it makes her feel better, so that combination is why she's losing weight. She gets frustrated when I try to get her to eat because it's not that she doesn't want to eat, it's that she doesn't feel hungry. So that's something I'm going to back off about, but she's going to try harder to eat and if she continues to lose weight she agreed (reluctantly) to see someone about it. And I stressed that this had nothing to do with my being attracted to her, because I will be no matter what. I was relieved to hear her say she knew that.

I asked her about the control stuff and told her I had no problem backing off. It took a bit of coaxing but she finally admitted that she enjoys the controlling aspect of our relationship and that, since she's been so stressed lately, she's been craving it (hence her acting out). She said it makes her feel secure. I made sure she wanted me to continue with this behavior, and if asked i she would be interested in my increasing the severity of it, and she said not only would she like that but she would also like for me to (using her words) push her around more often. I agreed (enthusiastically) but since I'm not comfortable just beating her up for no reason, the ball was still in her court, and we discussed ways for her to bait me without making me truly angry.

Then we talked about the fact that I need a way to put her in her place when she does actually make me angry. I suggested humiliation and she was apprehensive but consented (I decided that this was not the time to mention that it wasn't up to her ). I gave her a quick rundown of the kinds of things that would ensure her a severe ass beating from me; I then asked if there was anything she really truly did not want me to do to her, and she said anal and anything involving watersports or feces. The former I'm a bit disappointed about; the latter is something that's never interested me.

I also asked if she wanted me to be more affectionate or vocal about my feelings for her, and she said she doesn't need that more than occasionally because she knows how I feel about her.

So basically I'm very happy to have gotten this figured out, and I appreciate all the advice/insight/prodding to talk to her . That also brings me to the point of this thread:

Anyone have any suggestions on how to humiliate her in a semi-public setting? I say semi-public because most or all of this would take place in my apartment or the apartment of one of her friends, and not in front of random strangers. And again, I don't want it to be too obvious because our friends are pretty in the dark about this (except for one, and I'd be able to do just about anything to her without him even raising an eyebrow).

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

All the other stuff aside, which those guys have covered rather well anyway, I think humiliation as a punishment tool is bad ju-ju.

Things can be said in anger, or to be deliberately more malicious than normal because it's a 'punishment' that can cause some serious issues down the track.

I don't know. Maybe it would be ok. Maybe I just dislike the concept because I see humiliation as a rather powerful bonding tool and think it would be a terrible shame to waste it on punishment and I'm letting that cloud my judgement.

 

[Netzach]

One frumpy ugly-ass outfit she'd never actually voluntarily wear, assuming she cares about such things. I'd avoid things that are going to make your circle of friends uncomfortable.

 

[rida]

One frumpy ugly-ass outfit she'd never actually voluntarily wear, assuming she cares about such things. I'd avoid things that are going to make your circle of friends uncomfortable.

Yes! This!

When I'm trying to be dressed up to the ninth, if I were to be forced to wear the wrong type of shoes/hoses/stockings or a hideous dress that does not suit me and makes me look ridiculous would be highly humiliating.

And all you'd be inflicting on the bystanders is an extra dose of bad fashion sense.

 

[your_vice]

I don't know about humiliation as such because those are always such personal triggers for people. There are psychological ways you can put her in her place though. Buy her a choker necklace or a piece of jewellery with your initials on it or something. To a bystander, it's just bling but she will know it marks your ownership of her. Taking it away from her when you're seriously displeased/disappointed can also be a good tool. While she wears your 'collar,' she's expected to act as you would wish. You can get her a collar from a pet store for playtime and making her wear it around your friends would also be interesting if her style isn't already goth/emo. You could make her wear a short dress and no panties, so she's constantly worried someone might realise. If the dress is ugly or unfashionable it'll be a double humiliation. You could cum on her tits beforehand and rub it into her skin. She'll know she's wearing your cum but your friends probably won't notice. You could drag her to the bedroom for a quick fuck and make her panic that your friends will hear. Then she'll have to return to them flushed, dishevelled and full of cum.

People's limits evolve over time so don't get too disheartened about anal. One day she may well want to try it.

 

[rinka]

Sounds like you had a really good talk and got some things sorted out. Good for you!

About the humiliation I would just like to say please be careful around friends. If one of my friends boyfriend talked down to her the way you described in your OP I would write him off as a total douchebag jerk and hope she got the hell away from him. It would make me extremely uncomfortable and frankly I would think you humiliated yourself as well.

It seems you get off on the semipublic thing and need an audience for your humiliation play, but there's a fine line there to appearing to be an abusive asshole.

IMO safer route: Cum on face, wearing two different shoes, writing things on her body, make her go into a farmacy and loudly ask really embarrassing questions...

Well, well, my 50 öre.

 

[00Syd]

All the other stuff aside, which those guys have covered rather well anyway, I think humiliation as a punishment tool is bad ju-ju.

I agree. The idea of using something like humiliation, that can be really emotionally intense anyway, as a punishment, seems to be asking for disaster. So much can go wrong.

But, of course, that's just me. I'm sure it could work no problem for others. It all depends on the individuals involved.

 

[unknooown]

I appreciate everyone's input and after thinking about it I realize that you're right about humiliation not being an appropriate punishment, especially considering how stressed she's been.

I really like the idea of a piece of jewelry marking my ownership of her, and I've been planning for a while to get her a Tiffany's pendant with her first initial (I realize Tiffany's is not exactly the pinnacle of class but I'd like it to be something I could easily replace if she were to lose it; furthermore, Tiffany's has kind of a special meaning for us, or at least for me, because ten years ago I used to go over to her house on the weekends and we'd put Breakfast at Tiffany's on while we did our homework, and this is when I first loved ["loved"] her). Now I think I'll get her one with my first initial instead of hers, and I will confiscate it when I'm unhappy with her behavior.

I also like the idea of not allowing her to wear panties, because during parties I always end up fucking her in the coat closet and if she were panty-less that would make my job much easier since she's such a little squirmer.

 

[subish2009]

I appreciate everyone's input and after thinking about it I realize that you're right about humiliation not being an appropriate punishment, especially considering how stressed she's been.

I really like the idea of a piece of jewelry marking my ownership of her, and I've been planning for a while to get her a Tiffany's pendant with her first initial (I realize Tiffany's is not the pinnacle of class but I'd like it to be something she enjoys wearing and also something I could easily replace if she were to lose it; furthermore, Tiffany's has kind of a special meaning for us, or at least for me, because ten years ago I used to go over to her house on the weekends and we'd put that on while we did our homework, and this is when I first loved ["loved"] her). Now I think I'll get her one with my first initial instead of hers, and I will confiscate it when I'm unhappy with her behavior.

I also like the idea of not allowing her to wear panties, because during parties I always end up fucking her in the coat closet and if she were panty-less that would make my job much easier since she's such a little squirmer.

I like both those ideas a lot. You mentioned wanting ways to keep her in her place but not wanting to treat her like a child...I think both these ideas will help you meet that goal. The taking away of the necklace will send a stronger message than a humiliation punishment ever would...so much more symbolism. And the no-panties rule just heightens a kind of play you two already enjoy. She'll be very conscious of it and may think twice before willfully displeasing you. Also, it's just hot.

 

[DVS]

Your_vice, that's incredibly helpful, thank you. It's not that I find her less attractive (really it's not even a lot of weight she's lost, just enough for me to notice) it's that I'm worried that it's indicative of something more serious -- whether physical or psychological. And I would never criticize the way she looks -- I mean even now the worst thing I'll call her is a child, and that's when she's acting like one. I guess I don't know how to ask her about why she's losing weight because we don't talk very often about serious things. It's definitely time, though. If she's not happy I want to know about it, and if she is but something else is wrong I want to know about it.

I'd be absolutely willing to step back, if she wants just rough sex without the control that's fine, not ideal but I want to be with her.

With the bolded text above, you've just answered your own question. This thread isn't necessary if you have a serious conversation with her every once in a while. In those serious conversations you'll get to know the person she is inside. You're confused as to why she's acting a certain way. Having a serious conversation with her could go a long way in finding out why.

And when you have a serious conversation with her, ask her if she's happy with how your relationship is going. And if not, ask her what she'd like to see change. And don't shut her down, if she says something you don't like. Ask her why she's losing weight. And be sure she knows you are asking because you care about her.

A relationship is sharing. Share how you are feeling with her and ask her to share how she is feeling with you. Trust me...you find out a lot about someone by just asking questions in a simple little quite setting where you both feel safe to answer honestly.

It doesn't counter your dominant personality or make you any less manly to sit down and talk to your partner. In fact, it makes you more of a man. Share your thoughts with her and ask her to share hers with you.

Violence is just that...violence. Talk to her. If she trusts you enough to open up, she just might impress you with what it is about you she enjoys and what she doesn't enjoy. Then maybe you can both grow a little. And the relationship only gets better.

EDITED TO ADD:
It was nice to read that you've talked to her. And I bet she'll appreciate you more, if you continue to do so, every now and then, not just when you're confused about her behavior. You know this talk answered a lot of questions for you and maybe she got answers she needed, too. You are now closer than you were, and your relationship is stronger. Congrats for talking.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Lesson to self - don't post until you've read the whole thread

 

[unknooown]

If anyone's interested in an update:

We've talked more about her weight loss and we're focusing on eating high-calorie foods (peanut butter, red meat, etc) since her appetite hasn't improved. She's also drinking a Boost (those vitamin shake things) every couple hours whether she feels hungry or not (and that's the thing: she won't feel hungry but she'll feel the effects of low blood-sugar). So anyway, in the last two weeks she's gained back almost two full pounds which is pretty good considering she's still going to the gym every single day since it's one of the few things keeping her sane. Four more pounds until she hits triple digits again.

I got her this necklace: http://www.tiffany.com/shared/media/products/25131967_M_OVER_M_2.jpg

but with my initial and she loves it. So far I haven't had to confiscate it.

As for humiliation play, in some other thread I mentioned our friend that partakes in the BDSM lifestyle. He's as close to her as he is to me, and she indicated last week that if I wanted an audience for some of the more intense situations he could be that audience, but we have yet to talk about her limits (and I would have some as well if he were to get involved).

That's it for now. She and I are both feeling more secure. We've been together for a while but it was really rocky over the summer and only sort of resolved itself in late autumn, so for the past two or three months it's been feeling like a brand new relationship. So I guess we just needed to transition from the "HOLY SHIT I LIKE YOU AND YOU LIKE ME BACK" phase to the "well now that we're in a relationship I guess we should actually work at it" phase.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered advice and insight. You were all very helpful.

 

[unknooown]

Even you, SimonBrooke

 

[subish2009]

If anyone's interested in an update:

We've talked more about her weight loss and we're focusing on eating high-calorie foods (peanut butter, red meat, etc) since her appetite hasn't improved. She's also drinking a Boost (those vitamin shake things) every couple hours whether she feels hungry or not (and that's the thing: she won't feel hungry but she'll feel the effects of low blood-sugar). So anyway, in the last two weeks she's gained back almost two full pounds which is pretty good considering she's still going to the gym every single day since it's one of the few things keeping her sane. Four more pounds until she hits triple digits again.

I got her this necklace: http://www.tiffany.com/shared/media/products/25131967_M_OVER_M_2.jpg

but with my initial and she loves it. So far I haven't had to confiscate it.

As for humiliation play, in some other thread I mentioned our friend that partakes in the BDSM lifestyle. He's as close to her as he is to me, and she indicated last week that if I wanted an audience for some of the more intense situations he could be that audience, but we have yet to talk about her limits (and I would have some as well if he were to get involved).

That's it for now. She and I are both feeling more secure. We've been together for a while but it was really rocky over the summer and only sort of resolved itself in late autumn, so for the past two or three months it's been feeling like a brand new relationship. So I guess we just needed to transition from the "HOLY SHIT I LIKE YOU AND YOU LIKE ME BACK" phase to the "well now that we're in a relationship I guess we should actually work at it" phase.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered advice and insight. You were all very helpful.

Congrats! So great to hear you've made that jump into a more mature, healthy relationship! Sounds like you're both doing great, or on the road to doing so anyway. Triple digits? Jesus, she's tiny! No wonder you've been so worried about her.

As for your friend as audience, good for you for recognizing the need for another Conversation before jumping into that. My husband and I had a friend who filled that exact role for us before we were married. It was very rewarding for all involved and worked very well, in great part due to the fact that we were all on the exact same page. Only ended because we all moved away eventually, he got married. I'd bet money that he never told her, but ooooooh that girl hates me! I think she's felt some pretty thick sexual tension the few times we've all been together since he married her, which has been maybe three times in five years.

Anyway, you guys sound good. I'm glad.

 

[subsarah1989]

would be a shame

I agree. The idea of using something like humiliation, that can be really emotionally intense anyway, as a punishment, seems to be asking for disaster. So much can go wrong.

But, of course, that's just me. I'm sure it could work no problem for others. It all depends on the individuals involved.

to me it is one of THE most thrilling experiences...would be a shame to make something this erotic into a punishment

 

[Stella_Omega]

Just wanted to say that this has been a very impressive thread!

 

[midwestyankee]

I'm not sure that I grok the whole "punishment" thing. If it comes into my head to fuck with her head with some raunchy degradation and humiliation, then I have at it. It's hardly my fault that at some moment in time she strikes me as an unworthy receptacle for my prized cock. Of course I tell her.