If slavery were legal, would you own slaves?

[Cumference]

Scary!

I also oppose the death penalty..... But those judges deserved it (and in a cruel and unusual way).

 

[BiBunny]

Uh-huh. From what I've read, pre-war slavery in the US South wasn't very efficient for the "owners" (sic); even if you're not paying people for their labour you still need to buy, feed, and house them. A smart and unscrupulous employer can figure out other methods of getting people to work long hours for cheap - if you're paying wages you can shift the problem of food and housing onto your workers, you don't have to pay for security to stop people escaping. And there are ways to recoup a lot of that money from employees, like the "company shop" system where people are paid in scrip that can only be used at the store you own...

Oh, yeah, in terms of profitability, wage slavery is head and shoulders above chattel slavery.

Owning slaves is like owning horses-- they need to be fed, and you can find hundreds of reports of starving horses in the news right now.

Indeed.

 

[Kitty]

Oh, yeah, in terms of profitability, wage slavery is head and shoulders above chattel slavery.



Indeed.

Sooo...you don't disagree with slavery for moral reasons. Just some shit about not wanting to feed them.

Right. You see something new everyday, but it never gets old.

 

[BiBunny]

Sooo...you don't disagree with slavery for moral reasons. Just some shit about not wanting to feed them.

Right. You see something new everyday, but it never gets old.

Um...no.

This is what I originally said:

Leaving aside the (not insignificant) ethical part of the question for a moment: Do y'all realize what a massive pain in the ass it would be to own slaves?

The ethical aspects have already been argued, and in much better ways than I could've done. I was just pointing out that, practically speaking, slave ownership would be, as I said, a massive pain in the ass.

 

[FurryFury]

I would never want to have slaves, maybe be a slave to a trustworthy master. My pets are my companions. I'm about reciprocity and/or stewardship rather than ownership.

 

[Cumference]

I wonder how many of you realize this same conclusion about about the worst possible slave culture is also jumped to anytime someone talks about consensual slavery with non-kink acclimated people. The word consensual is just ... not heard.

But the main difference is, that should the "slave" in such a relationship stand up and say:" Ok, that's it, I leave"...... Then he can do it. And any "contract" will have no legal significance at all.

Should the "master" in any way try to detain the slave (or punish him for leaving), it is the master who will have to answer to the judge, not the slave.

It is basically a question of owning someones freedom or not.

 

[KoPilot]

I would never want to have slaves, maybe be a slave to a trustworthy master. My pets are my companions. I'm about reciprocity and/or stewardship rather than ownership.

This is where it comes down for me on a personal and philosophical level. I want the banishment of private property, but part of that is unraveling the concept of ownership to begin with. It's actually this year that I wrote an essay about how my ilk ought to start conceiving of their relationship with their possessions as one of stewardship, not ownership. These are things that exist separately from you, and in some cases existed before you did and will likely exist long after you're gone.

 

[KoPilot]

Sorry; on my phone and cutting down huge quotes aren't it's strong suit.

What I find interesting here though is the conclusions that were leapt to from this very generic question. As geof said, there have been many forms of slavery through out human history, yet the conversation immediately clenched on american slavery and modern human trafficking, both considered to contend for top placing as the most vile slave cultures ever practiced.

Sure there have been many forms of slavery over the centuries, but we go with the worst because the worst happens to be the most recent and what's already going on right now. And if slavery were made legal again, we could definitely count on it being equally as awful.

This isn't an ahistorical, apolitical question, as much as the OP and a few others here were hoping. Capitalism reigns supreme in this hypothetical scenario, the commons have all been enclosed, and private property already has more rights than most human beings. Change those things first and then maybe I can conceive of a slightly less shitty slavery.

 

[KoPilot]

I really don't see where any such hypothesis was given, but I think I can follow your extrapolation. Capitalism reigns supreme in reality; you exist in reality, therefore in any hypothesis you can imagine that would include you.

Not everyone wants to have every conversation so grounded in reality, particularly when that reality involves politics. Online porn forums like this is exactly where people might turn to put their heads in the ground.

I think including the word "legal" wound up grounding it in reality, regardless of the actual intention. Having to conceive of this situation in regards to the laws and legal system that we currently have, wherever we are currently located, contextualizes us pretty firmly.

 

[gman1970]

yes I would

But only sissy gurl.slaves like my sissy willingtobeused I own her but would own a harem of sissy slaves. To be used for a pletera of tasks but mostly to service me sexually.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

I guess I glossed over the first post and assumed it was intended as a question about consensual slavery and not as a question that suggested anything else. Plenty of voices have spoken to the latter, so I am only speaking from the suggestion of consensual intention. No, I would not own a slave. My poor droopy house plants and under brushed and slightly overweight pup would likely back me up on this one.

The next obvious thought would be to consider if there are people interested in CHOOSING TO BE a slave that it would require people that would choose to legally own them. Yes, I think these people exist. I certainly see the desire for this fantasy to come to life in many things that I read around these parts and elsewhere. If it were a CHOICE and the law supported the option to truly be a possession is interesting, but hard for me to shuffle into all the concerns of humans not always living from a compassionate and loving place and obvious reality strains. The care of a living creature should come from a place of meeting thier needs and supporting their vibrancy. As a possession, what rights to decent care would they have? What would the standard of care be defined as? How would that work? It doesn't seem like humans have even sorted out the rights of animals or what acts of cruelty would forfeit their rights as owners... And what that reality really means when it comes to the ideas and legalities of "ownership" of living things.

What would be the benefits if it were "legal"? How would you really secure that it is a CHOICE when coersive practices for social norms and desperation of trying to have basic needs met in life are thriving everywhere? This is likely the strains of reality and fantasy not getting along so well. There are voluntary slave registries, and though they don't hold up legally I can see how they bring something to the people that desire and use them in their lives to soothe something that nothing else likely could. Maybe it is those voices that desire to be owned that need to be heard here? I have seen transgendered people finally exhale in their "right skin", how would it be any different for someone who identifies "slave" to feel their right skin?

 

[Netzach]

Leaving aside the (not insignificant) ethical part of the question for a moment: Do y'all realize what a massive pain in the ass it would be to own slaves?

That too! Christ! It's not just sex workers who you pay to go away.

 

[Netzach]

Sorry; on my phone and cutting down huge quotes aren't it's strong suit.



Sure there have been many forms of slavery over the centuries, but we go with the worst because the worst happens to be the most recent and what's already going on right now. And if slavery were made legal again, we could definitely count on it being equally as awful.

This isn't an ahistorical, apolitical question, as much as the OP and a few others here were hoping. Capitalism reigns supreme in this hypothetical scenario, the commons have all been enclosed, and private property already has more rights than most human beings. Change those things first and then maybe I can conceive of a slightly less shitty slavery.

I have problems with this more benign and genteel "other slavery" people trot out, usually Old Testament slavery, well fine, but how many of these narratives of rules and checks and balances were told by the people enslaved? "I was taken captive by the _______ and my life got AWESOME!" well outside of porn, no.

A few shy of none, I'm sure. There are all kinds of rules about what you can't do to your concubine in the OT and you know not one of those fuckers ever was forced to actually build to code, as it were.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I wonder how many of you realize this same conclusion about about the worst possible slave culture is also jumped to anytime someone talks about consensual slavery with non-kink acclimated people. The word consensual is just ... not heard.

Every person here -- including OP.

edit; wait what-- because of their diet? What did they eat, their own fingers?

 

[Cumference]

Holy shit, Stella!
What happened to your AV?

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have problems with this more benign and genteel "other slavery" people trot out, usually Old Testament slavery, well fine, but how many of these narratives of rules and checks and balances were told by the people enslaved? "I was taken captive by the _______ and my life got AWESOME!" well outside of porn, no.

A few shy of none, I'm sure. There are all kinds of rules about what you can't do to your concubine in the OT and you know not one of those fuckers ever was forced to actually build to code, as it were.

It's a pity Marcus Tullius Tiro didn't leave an autobiography; it would've been fascinating reading.

I could be persuaded that some slaves like Tiro had a pretty good life by the standards of the day, maybe even more meaningful freedom than the average Roman citizen. But for every Tiro how many hundreds of slaves were there doing back-breaking, soul-destroying work, being abused by masters on a whim?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Holy shit, Stella!
What happened to your AV?

It had too much to drink. Couldn't find a lampshade...

fish with a side of fish in fish sauce and berry soup (a dish made using berries and you guessed it; fish). Omega 3 fatty acids found in fish oil breaks down neuroplasticity, which among other effects, reduces chronic pain and improves pain tolerance.

(the vast majority of that fish being salmon, a fish particularly high in omega 3, setting them apart any other seafaring culture)

Ahaha that totally makes sense. Love me a polymath

 

[brw02]

I didn't realize that slavery was illegal. It helps if you can find a benevolent master; mine was a Fortune 500 corporation. My masters never demeaned me and I can be thankful for that. But I was expected to be available whenever they needed me. I worked plenty of Christmases and Easters. They were kind enough to give me three days of paid leave when my son died. But there was never any doubt who were the masters and who were the slaves. Anyone who works knows the rules of the game.

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

I find the whole idea of slavery abhorrent.

If it were legal would I purchase slaves?

Yes

Then free them, then ask the free individual to work alongside me to earn money to purchase and free more slaves. Start a movement....

Freedom is the most precious thing.
Being in the service industry sucks, but you have the freedom to move jobs, find other employment, move town etc.
Non con slavery is wrong on so many levels

 

[Netzach]

It's a pity Marcus Tullius Tiro didn't leave an autobiography; it would've been fascinating reading.

I could be persuaded that some slaves like Tiro had a pretty good life by the standards of the day, maybe even more meaningful freedom than the average Roman citizen. But for every Tiro how many hundreds of slaves were there doing back-breaking, soul-destroying work, being abused by masters on a whim?

The reason he didn't kind of might have to do with the institution - whatever he did write seems to be expositions of his expertise on language. There are always exceptional people who break with the norms of a culture, but let's not get carried away. The classical world had a great odd tradition of an unpaid high level white collar workforce. Weird, but still, unpaid. You couldn't just do the most basic decision making for yourself but for the indulgence of someone else - if you had a lot of latitude, you could easily un-have it.

And the average Roman lived in a squalid apartment without a kitchen and the average Roman slave probably dug cisterns and lived like an animal. Things they don't remind you in classics class.

 

[Netzach]

I didn't realize that slavery was illegal. It helps if you can find a benevolent master; mine was a Fortune 500 corporation. My masters never demeaned me and I can be thankful for that. But I was expected to be available whenever they needed me. I worked plenty of Christmases and Easters. They were kind enough to give me three days of paid leave when my son died. But there was never any doubt who were the masters and who were the slaves. Anyone who works knows the rules of the game.

The game blows, I know it. However, I'm sure these guys will commiserate.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The reason he didn't kind of might have to do with the institution - whatever he did write seems to be expositions of his expertise on language. There are always exceptional people who break with the norms of a culture, but let's not get carried away. The classical world had a great odd tradition of an unpaid high level white collar workforce. Weird, but still, unpaid. You couldn't just do the most basic decision making for yourself but for the indulgence of someone else - if you had a lot of latitude, you could easily un-have it.

Uh-huh. And even if Cicero himself was the nicest master who ever lived... he was also a politically-active figure who made very powerful enemies who eventually had him killed. It wasn't until after being freed that Tiro got a choice in whether he wanted to be mixed up in that.

And the average Roman lived in a squalid apartment without a kitchen and the average Roman slave probably dug cisterns and lived like an animal. Things they don't remind you in classics class.

Caecilius est pater.

 

[FurryFury]

Preach it sistah!

This is where it comes down for me on a personal and philosophical level. I want the banishment of private property, but part of that is unraveling the concept of ownership to begin with. It's actually this year that I wrote an essay about how my ilk ought to start conceiving of their relationship with their possessions as one of stewardship, not ownership. These are things that exist separately from you, and in some cases existed before you did and will likely exist long after you're gone.

 

[rosco rathbone]

That;s my darkest, kinkiest side. I think I would have owned slaves in those days. I understand the motives of slaveowners all too well.

 

[NickiC]

Nope.