If you turn off scores...

[ElectricBlue]

Are you that naive, or do you really not get the real motivation for some to write?

If the voting system and the top lists vanished, most of the current writers would likely disappear too. My guess, however, is that the void would eventually be filled by better replacements.

You're probably right. The Top Lists are dominated, from what I can see, by stories from the first decade of Lit, those with huge read counts. I've never taken them seriously. Who cares about chapter 59 of something?

 

[Plathfan]

Must be. I've just checked the story file. Definitely votes turned off, scores showing.

Years ago I experimented on my own story file - turned the scoring off for a story, no change to Red H or the scores, but the five blank stars were gone. Turned the scoring back on, voila, back to normal.

I've always assumed x.xx means the author never turned scores on.

You're wrong. It takes time for the xxx to show after turning the votes off.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think it's pretty well established that people publish their stories for recognition and acclaim. Why else publish?

I publish stories so they will be read. I want them to be read by as many people who appreciate them as possible. Everything else is secondary. I'd much rather have 100,000 people read my story and have a 4.65 than have 10,000 people read my story and have a 4.9, because it means the odds are high that in the first instance far more appreciative readers are reading the story, even if I'm also probably getting more negative readers. I don't care about negative readers at all except insofar as their voting might reduce the score enough to make it harder for me to reach the positive readers. But I strongly believe people overrate the importance of this phenomenon. Among my body of stories, at least, the correlation between high scores and number of views over the long run is pretty weak.

Two other points about downvoters:

1. It happens to all of us. Maybe not to the same degree for all of us, but we're all pretty much in the same boat.

2. Over time, it's not true that votes after the first 100 don't matter. The downvoting phenomenon is likely to be a temporary thing. Over time votes will take your story to a score that probably accurately represents what people think of it. If you have 300 votes, for example, then it's unlikely that the score is dramatically affected by deliberate malicious downvoting. It's possible, I guess, but I think it's unlikely.

 

[ElectricBlue]

You're wrong. It takes time for the xxx to show after turning the votes off.

I'm reporting what I've just checked in a story list, where the author turned scores off on some, but not all of his stories, back in 2018. Six years is a bit of a long wait for a x.xx to show. Empirical evidence, sunshine.

 

[lovecraft68]

You're wrong. It takes time for the xxx to show after turning the votes off.

Depends. It should be fairly quick, but like reject reality said, there is a glitch (shocker) and some take longer than others

 

[SimonDoom]

I think some do. I've seen people leave over their scores taking hits.

Yes, I've definitely seen this. I've seen authors freak out because their scores dipped from something like 4.87 to 4.83, and they can't handle that.

There's nothing wrong about wanting a high score. We're all human, and most normal humans enjoy approval from others. But when it gets to the point that you can't handle seeing your story knocked from its 4.87 perch and fall down some notches on the toplists, then yes, there's something a little concerning about the attitude. It's not a healthy attitude and it lacks perspective. I've been doing this for 8 years, it's happened to plenty of my stories, and it has never once interfered with my ability to achieve my goals on this site, which are to write stories I enjoy writing and to connect with readers who will enjoy them. You have to be patient, take the long view, keep your eye on the real prize, and not get fixated on the numbers.

 

[RejectReality]

I'm reporting what I've just checked in a story list, where the author turned scores off on some, but not all of his stories, back in 2018. Six years is a bit of a long wait for a x.xx to show. Empirical evidence, sunshine.

It's certainly not the intended behavior. I know the intention is to zero out your visible score. ( the votes remain in the database ) Freddie used to turn off voting on anything that got an H because there was a bug ( oversight, really ) that left the H intact when you did that. The scores zeroed out to x.xx, but the H remained. Once that bug was corrected, he eventually turned all the scoring back on. ( Likely influenced by the fact that staying away from the forum for a long time has removed a lot of malicious down-voting from his scores. He acted the ass on the forum, and got punished for it. )

There may be an oversight in the new code that's causing the scores to still calculate when votes are available in the database. Were the scores only visible since the new pages went live?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't believe the score goes away, but I do think that those stories aren't qualified for any list with the score as the basis.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There may be an oversight in the new code that's causing the scores to still calculate when votes are available in the database. Were the scores only visible since the new pages went live?

I switched to the "beta" format when it was first introduced (when was that, five years ago?), so I've got no idea what went on with the "classic" pages.

All I know, is he locked most of his story scores when he left the site in 2018, and they still show, but with voting locked out. As I recall, nearly all his catalogue was Red H, but they no longer show on his story page (except for stories you can still vote on).

I've always thought that x.xx shows when there has never been a vote at all, but once a vote has been calculated, the last calculated number stays visible. As you've noted, if you turn voting back on, the score carries on being calculated as if nothing had happened, which means the whole data set is there.

 

[APilgrimSquare]

Why game it to get on a list? Isn't the interesting part about scores seeing how disparate strangers feel about your story?

 

[RejectReality]

I switched to the "beta" format when it was first introduced (when was that, five years ago?), so I've got no idea what went on with the "classic" pages.

All I know, is he locked most of his story scores when he left the site in 2018, and they still show, but with voting locked out. As I recall, nearly all his catalogue was Red H, but they no longer show on his story page (except for stories you can still vote on).

I've always thought that x.xx shows when there has never been a vote at all, but once a vote has been calculated, the last calculated number stays visible. As you've noted, if you turn voting back on, the score carries on being calculated as if nothing had happened, which means the whole data set is there.

I know it showed as x.xx not long after someone turned it off on the old pages, because I was keeping track of a couple of people while sending data about the lingering H bug. That's absolutely the intended behavior. Once you turn of voting, your visible score is zeroed out. Either the x.xx under the old pages, or completely invisible now.

The new version the profile/story list is fairly recent. It's maybe a year old or so. That's what I'm curious about. https://www.literotica.com/authors/RejectReality/works/stories Do you happen to remember if scores were visible on the profile prior to that change? What I think happened is there's an oversight in checking for the voting enabled flag before calculating score in the new, current pages.

If it was visible before that, I'm at a loss, because I've seen the expected behavior play out umpteen times on the previous version of the page without issue.

Anybody know someone who recently turned off voting after accumulating votes? That might confirm if there's an oversight. I don't know of anybody who has voting turned off on a story after accumulating votes. Everyone I was keeping track of while reporting data has turned voting back on, as near as I can tell. I didn't go through the whole catalog for them, because they're long, but the ones I was keeping track of specifically absolutely have voting turned back on, so that's of no use.

 

[SimonDoom]

I know it showed as x.xx not long after someone turned it off on the old pages, because I was keeping track of a couple of people while sending data about the lingering H bug. That's absolutely the intended behavior. Once you turn of voting, your visible score is zeroed out. Either the x.xx under the old pages, or completely invisible now.

The new version the profile/story list is fairly recent. It's maybe a year old or so. That's what I'm curious about. https://www.literotica.com/authors/RejectReality/works/stories Do you happen to remember if scores were visible on the profile prior to that change? What I think happened is there's an oversight in checking for the voting enabled flag before calculating score in the new, current pages.

If it was visible before that, I'm at a loss, because I've seen the expected behavior play out umpteen times on the previous version of the page without issue.

Anybody know someone who recently turned off voting after accumulating votes? That might confirm if there's an oversight. I don't know of anybody who has voting turned off on a story after accumulating votes. Everyone I was keeping track of while reporting data has turned voting back on, as near as I can tell. I didn't go through the whole catalog for them, because they're long, but the ones I was keeping track of specifically absolutely have voting turned back on, so that's of no use.

I just experimented with one of my stories, Reasonable Accommodation, one of my lesser-rated Exhibitionist stories. It was published in 2023, had 145 votes and a score of 4.36. I switched off voting, and now the score does not appear on my control page, on my submissions list page, or on the first page of the story. The score disappeared. After a bit I'll switch it back on and see what happens.

 

[RejectReality]

I just experimented with one of my stories, Reasonable Accommodation, one of my lesser-rated Exhibitionist stories. It was published in 2023, had 145 votes and a score of 4.36. I switched off voting, and now the score does not appear on my control page, on my submissions list page, or on the first page of the story. The score disappeared. After a bit I'll switch it back on and see what happens.

That's absolutely the intended behavior in real time with current code, so it's not an oversight.

The question now is why is this one profile defying all the rules? LOL

 

[SimonDoom]

I turned the voting feature back on. The score appears again, same as before.

 

[RejectReality]

I turned the comment feature back on. The score appears again, same as before.

You do mean turned voting back on, right?

 

[SimonDoom]

That's absolutely the intended behavior in real time with current code, so it's not an oversight.

The question now is why is this one profile defying all the rules? LOL

That question is way, way beyond my pay grade and competence.

 

[SimonDoom]

You do mean turned voting back on, right?

Yes. Just corrected.

Remember what I just told you about competence.

 

[RejectReality]

After seeing evidence of other people who I know have voting turned off, and the intended behavior happening as expected with that test, I'm inclined to just leave it alone.

If the person EB is talking about was getting bombed prior to shutting down scoring and leaving, odds are that the scores aren't up where they're pushing anybody off the first page of a toplist if they're even considered. ( which is hardly a given even with the scores still visible on the works page ) That basically comes down to no harm, no foul in my opinion. I'm happy to let the scores continue to be a middle finger to the troll(s) who were making the author's life hell.

Doesn't seem to be any indicator of a wide-spread or even easily repeatable bug, if there is one. For all we know, Laurel tweaked something to let the scores stay visible because she knew the author was getting the shaft, and assisted in that middle finger. At this point some sort of intervention on behalf of that account feels more likely than a bug or oversight, and I'm just fine with that.

 

[Britva415]

So, you know, watching the votes creep close to 100 on those stories feels a bit like watching a car crash about to happen and being powerless to stop it

Maybe don't watch?

 

[Voboy]

Yep, maybe the previous scores I had were overrated. But they were from genuine readers. What's happening at the moment isn't coming from readers.

Perhaps, but it's the same process every other writer on that toplist is dealing with. In that sense, it's a level playing field. What you proposed at the start of this thread would place you on a different level than those other writers, which is as unfair as whatever the trolls are doing.

If everyone is getting trolled, then no one is getting trolled. If that makes sense. Sucks that it's like that, but it is.

 

[RejectReality]

LOL, I remember watching with dread as my stories approached TEN votes with a solid 5. I'm fairly certain that the 10 vote bar was all you needed back in those early days to qualify for the toplists, which meant you had an immediate target on your back the moment you got 10 votes. You would inevitably get half again as many 1s in 24 hours after taking days to get to 10.

I actually took to 4-bombing my own stories if they hit 9 votes with a perfect five so they would debut on the toplist with a less threatening 4.90.

 

[Escierto]

It's always about the scores. There is a guy who writes stories in the trans category. He admits he knows nothing about transgender people and he has never met one. His stories are the most outlandish porn fueled garbage that you will ever see.

The plots are ridiculous and the characters one dimensional stereotypes. There is literally nothing redeeming about these stories except their wild popularity. I must say one thing - he knows his audience: guys who live in a fantasy world jerking off to trans girls with huge cocks and libidos to match.

 

[Bamagan]

...what happens to the current score a story has? Does it disappear? Or is it preserved, but nobody can add any further votes?

(Asking as I have three stories with the scores in the 4.90s. Assuming the trolls don't get to me beforehand, they'll hit no 1 on the top list once then get 100 votes, then immediately get pummeled but whatever troll/bot has been whacking everything on the Lesbian top list for the last 6 weeks. They'll end up on 4.82 or something. If I could freeze them now, I'd be tempted.)

In my case, turning off the voting just erased the visible scores from the title cards, and I presume it removed them from being considered for top lists and the like, although that's neither easily testable nor particularly pertinent for my catalog. It did show up as (x.xx) for a while, until they switched to the new profile pages. The downloadable story stats contain the saved voting data, though, so you can still see what it includes. I can tell you that sweeps do affect stories that don't allow new votes, as the total number of votes continued to decrease after the feature was disabled. That mostly resulted in higher scores, though no one else can see that of course.

 

[ElectricBlue]

After seeing evidence of other people who I know have voting turned off, and the intended behavior happening as expected with that test, I'm inclined to just leave it alone.

If the person EB is talking about was getting bombed prior to shutting down scoring and leaving, odds are that the scores aren't up where they're pushing anybody off the first page of a toplist if they're even considered. ( which is hardly a given even with the scores still visible on the works page ) That basically comes down to no harm, no foul in my opinion. I'm happy to let the scores continue to be a middle finger to the troll(s) who were making the author's life hell.

His scores were regularly in the 4.7s and 4.8s, and could well have been in his category yearly top lists; but in all time top lists, not so sure. In his day, he had a reasonable following. He wrote mostly in GM or Non-con, but the harassment came from a writers' cabal (from another category) after a forum exchange that got ugly.

Doesn't seem to be any indicator of a wide-spread or even easily repeatable bug, if there is one. For all we know, Laurel tweaked something to let the scores stay visible because she knew the author was getting the shaft, and assisted in that middle finger. At this point some sort of intervention on behalf of that account feels more likely than a bug or oversight, and I'm just fine with that.

That's highly likely. I know Laurel did get involved at the time, because he reported the trolling, giving her names. His list today is about half votes showing, but with those stories locked, the other half, no scores at all - nothing, not even x.xx. My guess is Laurel did do some tweaks to his data set, and it all may have coincided with one of the upgrades. It was back in 2017, so longer ago than I remembered.

 

[Diamondknight87]

This is tangentially related, but one of my stories has been at 4.88 for two years (almost exactly) with 129-130 ratings (don't remember which).

However, almost a week and a half ago it dropped to 4.8 in one day with 131 scores. Every day since then it's had an additional rating that's dropped it down just a little bit. Yesterday it was at 4.74 in the morning with 138 ratings. It seemed like a sweep happened as one dropped, bringing it back to 4.76/137, but I look again this morning and it's at 4.75/138 again.

If it's legit then fine, but this just seems weirdly suspicious because the story isn't new. FWIW, the story sat at 4.9's for a several months until it hit 100 ratings, then over the course of a few weeks it was voted down to 4.88.

It also hit 4.89 a few weeks ago, gettin it on the 'hall of fame' list, but was promptly voted back down to 4.88 within a week.

Thoughts?