Interact 7 - Maria2394 - a real person

[Tathagata]

Frog Poems

those are my favorites because, although you say they are political, they can be read as simple stories, as fairy tales, and as political.
I was amazed a few years ago when a friend of mine gave me a book of fairy tales by Oscar Wilde...I'd never heard of them.
That is what the frog Poems remind me of.
When I was young my grandmother would read me the Wind in the Willows books, and the Thornton Burgess series of all the animals " Jerry Muskrat, Ol' Mistah Buzzard"
i think it's part of the reason I see nature like I do.
I get that from you and your work on so many levels.
You are connected to the earth in many ways.
Feel her, understand her and all her creatures and can slip inside anyone of them effortlessly.
You retain the charm and innocence of it all and still manage to get a political message across right under our noses.
I wanted to take this chance to say publically what I've told you privately.
You are a very talented writer, a warm and loving soul, and an inspiration to me and , I'm sure, many others here.

 

[tungtied2u]

Re: Frog Poems

those are my favorites because, although you say they are political, they can be read as simple stories, as fairy tales, and as political.
I was amazed a few years ago when a friend of mine gave me a book of fairy tales by Oscar Wilde...I'd never heard of them.
That is what the frog Poems remind me of.
When I was young my grandmother would read me the Wind in the Willows books, and the Thornton Burgess series of all the animals " Jerry Muskrat, Ol' Mistah Buzzard"
i think it's part of the reason I see nature like I do.
I get that from you and your work on so many levels.
You are connected to the earth in many ways.
Feel her, understand her and all her creatures and can slip inside anyone of them effortlessly.
You retain the charm and innocence of it all and still manage to get a political message across right under our noses.
I wanted to take this chance to say publically what I've told you privately.
You are a very talented writer, a warm and loving soul, and an inspiration to me and , I'm sure, many others here.

Well said Tath..I couldn't agree more.....

 

[Maria2394]

Maria, I'm sure I remember this, it was one of the many I see that , that I probably did not comment on, because I had to think about it, with the intent of getting back to it with something intelligent to say.
(whoa, what did I just admit to?)
But now that it is here, can you go into some detail about it?

Lest He Paint Another


Who could presume to steal a Scream?

In daylight broad as a solstice grin
that Munch was spirited away
and now the thought occurs to me

Who is the old master that summons up visions
of evil as brilliant as war?

He is the one who begs us to taste
sanguine deaths
and ache hysterical orange, while

Our world is nourished with green
and the earth gleans
nutrients from bloodied stains,
that will disappear into ditches and streams

Sorrow feeds on the violet blood of heroes,
the martyr’s blood runs blue and black,
the blood of an innocent and the murderer’s blood
are all washed away with one pounding rain

We are given the truth in brush strokes and glimpses,
it is up to us to understand
that war is a stain on the soul of humanity, and

We must separate the canvas and brushes,
keep all of the paint out of just one hand
so that such a terrible masterpiece
may never be painted again


~~~~

do you remember the painting that was stolen a few months ago, The Scream, by Munch? jd4george left a very enlightening comment, told me there was actually a series of 4 painted, I didnt know that, but I thought of the expression on the "being" the horrible twisted face in agony and thought, who could steal a scream? then I thought of war, and politicians and how they, in essence, steal the screams, silent screams, global screams, the screams of mankind pleading for, wanting peace, to be left to plant and grow and procreate.

Well, that is idealistic, I know, there are those who want to kill and fight and cause pain and sadness. I know there are 2 sides to everything, sometimes more than 2, but I couldnt help but think of a recent president, whose son is now president and it made me think, what would happen if all the war tools, all the paints, and brushes and canvases were held in one set of hands, one family's hands, then he ( they) would have absolute control, right?

. I realize this is a democracy, but something doesnt feel right, its like the citizens are not in control anymore, this will get me in trouble, I am not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone with my beliefes.

The purpose of the poem was to show how I felt about our political system and how it works when pertaining to decisions like when to go to war., to say that all blood flows the same, we all hurt, even the war makers, we all bleed, we die and our screams are stolen when our voices are not listened to. I guess what I am looking for is compassion in government and that just doesnt exist...

 

[twelveoone]

Lest He Paint Another


Who could presume to steal a Scream?

In daylight broad as a solstice grin
that Munch was spirited away
and now the thought occurs to me

Who is the old master that summons up visions
of evil as brilliant as war?

He is the one who begs us to taste
sanguine deaths
and ache hysterical orange, while

Our world is nourished with green
and the earth gleans
nutrients from bloodied stains,
that will disappear into ditches and streams

Sorrow feeds on the violet blood of heroes,
the martyr’s blood runs blue and black,
the blood of an innocent and the murderer’s blood
are all washed away with one pounding rain

We are given the truth in brush strokes and glimpses,
it is up to us to understand
that war is a stain on the soul of humanity, and

We must separate the canvas and brushes,
keep all of the paint out of just one hand
so that such a terrible masterpiece
may never be painted again


~~~~

do you remember the painting that was stolen a few months ago, The Scream, by Munch? jd4george left a very enlightening comment, told me there was actually a series of 4 painted, I didnt know that, but I thought of the expression on the "being" the horrible twisted face in agony and thought, who could steal a scream? then I thought of war, and politicians and how they, in essence, steal the screams, silent screams, global screams, the screams of mankind pleading for, wanting peace, to be left to plant and grow and procreate.

Well, that is idealistic, I know, there are those who want to kill and fight and cause pain and sadness. I know there are 2 sides to everything, sometimes more than 2, but I couldnt help but think of a recent president, whose son is now president and it made me think, what would happen if all the war tools, all the paints, and brushes and canvases were held in one set of hands, one family's hands, then he ( they) would have absolute control, right?

. I realize this is a democracy, but something doesnt feel right, its like the citizens are not in control anymore, this will get me in trouble, I am not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone with my beliefes.

The purpose of the poem was to show how I felt about our political system and how it works when pertaining to decisions like when to go to war., to say that all blood flows the same, we all hurt, even the war makers, we all bleed, we die and our screams are stolen when our voices are not listened to. I guess what I am looking for is compassion in government and that just doesnt exist...

I was thrown completely off by this reference to Munch. This article was fresh in my mind
http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/12/10/1070732277751.html
not even realizing it was stolen.
But, while missing it, I must have still carried it "ache hysterical orange", useing those contrasting colours, orange and green, in something refering to the same person.
I must have still carried it, says something, doesn't it?

 

[Maria2394]

yes, it is good, makes me smile, that you or anyone carries anything from my poetry. When my hubby was pitching a fit over all the pieces i had on here, I deleted almost all the ones he had ever read and only left the ones I written for people, either on here or other friends from the net.

I'm glad you could feel that hysterical orange I spoke of, its something, isnt it

 

[flyguy69]

... this will get me in trouble, I am not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone with my beliefes.

Baloney. If there were no intent to demonstrate the reasonableness of your perspective, why share it? You may not be crusading, but your poetry clearly illustrates not only your views on social issues but also the thinking and (maybe more importantly) feeling behind those views. Don't tell me that one of the greatest affirmations of your work wouldn't be to have someone that has previously dismissed your views as irrational read a poem of yours and suddenly understand.

You seem driven by a desire to get people to think. You may not be calling for specific response, but you display a wonderful faith in human nature; in particular the belief that if people understand the consequences of their actions they will act appropriately.

You are a breath of wonderfully fresh air. And a good poet!

 

[Maria2394]

Ok, flyguy, you are right, I lied, about that affirmation thing, yes, that would be a great thing, but I generally do not go around telling people that they are wrong, and I am right, because I dont usually feel right, ya know?

I do have faith in mankind as a whole, but I also have fear, as any rational human should, but sometimes I feel like just giving up and then, well, you have seen where that goes

 

[twelveoone]

Crows

Maria,
n "straw man down" why the distinction between the three crows?

straw man down

un-stuff the hay, fledgling crow
scare away the glean and pinch
of pulling push towards sorrow

empty man fills up on beauty
tryin’ to take it to his grave

hollow man fills up on dread
his heart already in his grave

patience wins the war of age

listen young crow, you gotta keep on
preenin' and pluckin’ and pulling straw,
don’t be takin’ no lessons from ravens
on how to pester with squawk and caw

lonely man fills up on meat
angry man fills up on hate
humble man fills up on faith

you can’t fight the flood with fire, ya know

answer me, old crow with your booty
whose biddin’ will you do
when there’s no straw man a lurkin’
causin’ problems for you, for you?

whose biddin', whose biddin’
will you do?

 

[Maria2394]

the 3 crows are representative of us as we progress through the stages of our life. If you do not thinkof the straw man as an actual person, but as an entity, then it makes more sense, I think.
fledgling corw, pushes and pulls, picks at whatever he can grasp, cause thats what babies do, trying to follow the lead of the older ones.

Young crow, was attempting to tell him to listen to his inner self, that the ravens, the elders, do not always know what is right, or best, yes they may have more experience, but the world is changing, some "young crows" just blindly follow their old crow daddies anyway, its not of use most of the time to give advice like that

and old crow, after he has spent his life, building up the "straw man" he has torn him down, wasted his life, and what does he have to show for it? and empty pair of pants, a hat and an old shirt, the straw, the meaning, the essence of what could have been a learning experience, knowing a person, watching that person grow, and being a good influence to that person,, has been wasted,.


mostly it was a life progression thing with the crows, I was attempting to show stages of the crows life, in a simple way

I guess this was not a hopeful poem. I do get cynical sometimes

 

[twelveoone]

the 3 crows are representative of us as we progress through the stages of our life. If you do not thinkof the straw man as an actual person, but as an entity, then it makes more sense, I think.
fledgling corw, pushes and pulls, picks at whatever he can grasp, cause thats what babies do, trying to follow the lead of the older ones.

Young crow, was attempting to tell him to listen to his inner self, that the ravens, the elders, do not always know what is right, or best, yes they may have more experience, but the world is changing, some "young crows" just blindly follow their old crow daddies anyway, its not of use most of the time to give advice like that

and old crow, after he has spent his life, building up the "straw man" he has torn him down, wasted his life, and what does he have to show for it? and empty pair of pants, a hat and an old shirt, the straw, the meaning, the essence of what could have been a learning experience, knowing a person, watching that person grow, and being a good influence to that person,, has been wasted,.


mostly it was a life progression thing with the crows, I was attempting to show stages of the crows life, in a simple way

I guess this was not a hopeful poem. I do get cynical sometimes

cynical, perhaps...
Here is what I see:
The most important part is the straw man
It is the same crow, going though three phases
The crow has an relationship with the straw man.
As the crow grows, the straw man lbecomes less.
The raven is something else.
I see this as an angry reaction to something, what where you thinking off at the time? Specifically? What is being lost?
This is the Straw man?
Old crows, follow the ravens?
See what I'm saying, crow overcoming straw man. "Crow" slightly outweighs "straw" very slightly, but still, it is that one to one relationship, that generating the anger.
A small critique.
What would you change?

 

[Maria2394]

cynical, perhaps...
Here is what I see:
The most important part is the straw man
It is the same crow, going though three phases
The crow has an relationship with the straw man.
As the crow grows, the straw man lbecomes less.
The raven is something else.
I see this as an angry reaction to something, what where you thinking off at the time? Specifically? What is being lost?
This is the Straw man?
Old crows, follow the ravens?
See what I'm saying, crow overcoming straw man. "Crow" slightly outweighs "straw" very slightly, but still, it is that one to one relationship, that generating the anger.
A small critique.
What would you change?

I see this as an angry reaction to something, what where you thinking off at the time? Specifically? What is being lost?

I wish I could say I was angry at something worthwhile, but if you want me to be honest, then I will tell you it was a break-up that caused that poem. Someone who claimed to care, and said he wanted the best for me, then betrayed me, beyond what I thought I could ever forgive. He made me feel small and helpless, I suppose I am the straw man, and he was the crow, then I thought of the people in my life who had done the same thing and I realized it must be my fault cause I keep letting it happen. Yes, it made me very angry, not just at him, but at myself. And once again, I gave him a place more than what he deserved in my life by ever writing the poem. Sometimes writing is the only way I can make peace with things and then go on.

He always read my stuff and he knew the legends of Thor and the ravens and by making him a crow, I said all I needed to say to him

what was being lost?

this reaction, the poem,
was due to the realization that I couldnt ever trust him again,
one I had cared so deeply for, it ruined something I wanted to believe in.


What I would change?

the separate lines in between, ma fills up on... I wouldework that section into something shorter, delete some words or condense it and move it to the end, right before the last verse.

 

[twelveoone]

I'm sorry, Maria, I didn't mean to open up old wounds. I read something completely different in it. Perhaps that is where the muddiness came in. This looked like a very subtle political statement to me. I see how it fits either way. I was looking at the straw man as a something like a conscious that the crow was fighting more and more as it got older. It doesn't matter, micro mirrors macro.
Can be done either way.

 

[Maria2394]

no need to apologize. I started with one idea and sort of generalized it into more than meaning one thing, but what I told you was the root of it. In fact, the first title was Voodoo Doll, then it changed up on me as I wrote it. Im glad, actually, that it has been seen more than one way, I do muddy things up very often..sorry about that

 

[twelveoone]

no need to apologize. I started with one idea and sort of generalized it into more than meaning one thing, but what I told you was the root of it. In fact, the first title was Voodoo Doll, then it changed up on me as I wrote it. Im glad, actually, that it has been seen more than one way, I do muddy things up very often..sorry about that

No need to apologise, brings up an important point.
This I think is a fine work. It can go either way. The anger is there. Anger, or anything deeply felt is written "hot". Editting is "cold", judging from what I go through, it is now seen through different eyes, and you saw a different potential, direction to take it. This is probably the hardest point to work in, the most confusing, particulary if you decide to take it in a different direction. This is the point most poetry gets killed, or wounded. Things are added and/or vestiges are not removed to support the new statement. To avoid this one must either:
1.) keep it short
2.) keep it simple
3.) write cold
4.) perfect the craft to support the art.
1+2 are fine if it says what you want it to say.
3 I suspect are what most professional poets do, they are tough for me to read, because it looks like all the emotion got up and walked away before the first word was put down, at best it retains a faint whiff of something real in a whole lot of craft.
4 I doubt that anyone here is at that level on a consistent basis, I've seen a few people approaching it, I guess that is why some of us are here.
Your "straw man down" was slightly wounded in this process, the wound was far from fatal. I hope you keep working on it. It is well worth it.
It is/was hoped that these Interact series would function as a tool that is probably missing outside of workshops, maybe even missing in workshops.
Very rarely do I see comments address problems - YDD was good at it, Perks, too a few others, they suffered, and comments are problematic for dialogue.
Sometimes it is the audience (or part of) that misses, the author may be one or two steps ahead of them, getting the author to talk may help part of the audience to catch up. I think the authors have done that. It is/was hoped to help clear and develop these messages.
In Interact #2 annaswirls got blasted for overediting, i.e. writting hot, killing cold, partly I suspect because of feedback from an academic site.
Interact #4 Angeline talked about editing, and forced a part of the audience (i.e. me) to catch up to what was done. The craft matched the art. In the "nightengale" she also keep it short and simple, I suspect it was not written cold, but not hot either.
To sum, what was said here; your work is very well recieved, you are very good at commenting on the socio/political landscape (what you are doing is art) at getting messages through, without being overbearing. I'm sorry I had to play the bad guy and point out what I see are some small problems, I do only because I appreciate your work, your potential, you.

 

[Maria2394]

No need to apologise, brings up an important point.
This I think is a fine work. It can go either way. The anger is there. Anger, or anything deeply felt is written "hot". Editting is "cold", judging from what I go through, it is now seen through different eyes, and you saw a different potential, direction to take it. This is probably the hardest point to work in, the most confusing, particulary if you decide to take it in a different direction. This is the point most poetry gets killed, or wounded. Things are added and/or vestiges are not removed to support the new statement. To avoid this one must either:
1.) keep it short
2.) keep it simple
3.) write cold
4.) perfect the craft to support the art.
1+2 are fine if it says what you want it to say.
3 I suspect are what most professional poets do, they are tough for me to read, because it looks like all the emotion got up and walked away before the first word was put down, at best it retains a faint whiff of something real in a whole lot of craft.
4 I doubt that anyone here is at that level on a consistent basis, I've seen a few people approaching it, I guess that is why some of us are here.
Your "straw man down" was slightly wounded in this process, the wound was far from fatal. I hope you keep working on it. It is well worth it.
It is/was hoped that these Interact series would function as a tool that is probably missing outside of workshops, maybe even missing in workshops.
Very rarely do I see comments address problems - YDD was good at it, Perks, too a few others, they suffered, and comments are problematic for dialogue.
Sometimes it is the audience (or part of) that misses, the author may be one or two steps ahead of them, getting the author to talk may help part of the audience to catch up. I think the authors have done that. It is/was hoped to help clear and develop these messages.
In Interact #2 annaswirls got blasted for overediting, i.e. writting hot, killing cold, partly I suspect because of feedback from an academic site.
Interact #4 Angeline talked about editing, and forced a part of the audience (i.e. me) to catch up to what was done. The craft matched the art. In the "nightengale" she also keep it short and simple, I suspect it was not written cold, but not hot either.
To sum, what was said here; your work is very well recieved, you are very good at commenting on the socio/political landscape (what you are doing is art) at getting messages through, without being overbearing. I'm sorry I had to play the bad guy and point out what I see are some small problems, I do only because I appreciate your work, your potential, you.

You are such a bad guy!! Thank you a milion times!! I sometimes, okay, always, come across as "too sensitive" at least thats what my dad always said. So, I think that a lot of the people on here who could help me, dont offer technical suggestions because they think they will hurt my feelings. Only the meanness hurts , the honest, directed criticism is always welcome.

I knew something was wrong with Straw man down, I just couldnt see it objectively enough to be able to say, damn, so that's what's wrong!! Yes, I wrote it "hot", but edited luke warm...I see where you are going with that thought process. Almost everything I write must be written in the mood, or it sounds forced and just plain terrible.

I had a creative writing workshop my last semester at our local college and the teacher was not prepared for people with any sort of talent. I wasnt writing then, except for short stories and I remember some of the others who brought in poetry that was wonderful and he blasted it without suggesting how to improve. You should read some of my first work here..it was awful, I cant believe the difference just in how I see things now, its as if someone turned on a light.

Straw Man Down is not finished, I admit that, but it is close, ( I think)Thank you so much for your suggestions and your critique , observation of where the problems lie. You are valued here, I so appreciate your giving me the chance to bare my soul, it is not that hard to do. I have always been a n open person, but I did tiptioe around the reason I wrote straw man and I want to apologize for that, I should have admitted it from the start. I just was sort of embarrassed that it wasnt something deeper than what it was, when it was born, I mean.

Thanks again 1201, and to everyone who has spoken on here to encourage me and give me a vote of confidence. I love you guys, you are family to me, and so very appreciated. I know I dont say it often enough, so thank you!!

maria

 

[twelveoone]

You are such a bad guy!!
OK technical suggestion here Three exclamation points , when refering to me as a bad guy, I deserve it.
So, I think that a lot of the people on here who could help me, dont offer technical suggestions because they think they will hurt my feelings. Only the meanness hurts , the honest, directed criticism is always welcome.

I knew something was wrong with Straw man down, I just couldnt see it objectively enough to be able to say, damn, so that's what's wrong!! Yes, I wrote it "hot", but edited luke warm...I see where you are going with that thought process. Almost everything I write must be written in the mood, or it sounds forced and just plain terrible.

A technical suggestion is just that, do not get bogged down there also



I had a creative writing workshop my last semester at our local college and the teacher was not prepared for people with any sort of talent. I wasnt writing then, except for short stories and I remember some of the others who brought in poetry that was wonderful and he blasted it without suggesting how to improve. You should read some of my first work here..it was awful, I cant believe the difference just in how I see things now, its as if someone turned on a light.

Straw Man Down is not finished, I admit that, but it is close, ( I think)Thank you so much for your suggestions and your critique , observation of where the problems lie.

Will you post it here, in this thread, please?

I just was sort of embarrassed that it wasnt something deeper than what it was, when it was born, I mean.

yeh, I know, why do you think I never admitted "promised land" came out of a haiku about a hemorrhoid operation oh shit

Thanks again 1201, and to everyone who has spoken on here to encourage me and give me a vote of confidence. I love you guys, you are family to me, and so very appreciated. I know I dont say it often enough, so thank you!!

maria

I think the message, you got was if you want to thank us, keep writing.

On a personal note, I was glad to see the requests come in. I hope your computer problems ease up. I do hope it helps you, I hope these threads also help new writers also.

coming up....
Interact 8 1201's mindless rampages though the world of words

Interact 9 Lauren Hyde

Interact 10 Liar