Internal vs. External conflict

[Firebrain]

The trick, I think, is to consider your character's problem and chop your thoughts into little sections. Drip-feed them to the reader as the story goes on and make them relevant to the plot. This should lead you towards a satisfying resolution. Think of it like a little montage of thoughts (you need a montage. MONTAGE! Ooh, it takes a montaaaage).

 

[GrumpyGamby]

Subtle and too subtle

Firebrain, I think your story serves as an excellent example of a subtle internal conflict. Leila isn't being torn apart and turned into an emotional basket case as she attempts to reconcile what she feels driven toward and what she feels she *should* be driven toward and really want. Nor does she waist vast energy in reconciling her two careers, though she is cognizant of how one will affect the other.

Some of the more interesting conflicts I've seen have been when the action of the character, causes the conflict after the fact. Showing the pendulum swinging one way or the other, after the fact, shows an attempt at self correction, or perhaps self flagellation depending on which way the pendulum swings.

What I've seen so bothersome in a lot of erotica is the pendulum not moving at all. With the only exception being mind control, if a protagonist is shown to behave in a way that's been demonstrated as out of character, there must be a corresponding behavior change that indicates the conflict.

In Chairman of the Whored, Leila's subtle pendulum swings away and then forward, away and then forward. Each pass it gets closer to center. As the story ends and Leila is at peace with herself, the pendulum has slowed to the point where it's hardly noticeable. But, since the characters have been so well developed, the reader can sense that vibrations remain.

Can you tell I kind of liked that story?

 

[Firebrain]

I found your comment, Grumpy - it was most appreciated

The story hasn't ended, though - I'm about half way through the next chapter (I moved house and got caught up for a while). There is more conflict on the way [sinister music]

 

[JustinAme]

Types of Internal Conflict

The most common internal conflicts I see in erotica are struggles against societal boundaries (she's too young/old, she/he's married/attached, she/he's a coworker, she/he is the same sex as me...) A lot of those work out to be interpersonal conflicts as well, so the way that gets realized is through dialogue, and through literary devices like alegory and symbolism - okay, well, maybe you don't see that very often.

I wonder if it's even possible to write a story without characters struggling with internal conflict. Otherwise you only have external conflict (oh no, the sun is exploding!) and interpersonal conflict (damn, that mean guy stole my lunch money).

Even with the sun-is-going-to-explode story, right there you've got internal conflict: what to do with my remaining twenty minutes of existence?

 

[BLoved]

In erotica, or porn, most stories express external conflict ... a tension between the physical wants and desires of one or two (maybe more depending on the kink of the story) different characters that play back and forth until someone cums (we hope). But what of internal conflict? I know that an internal erotic conflict might consist of a a priest or nun (as basic example) at odds with masturbation in the face of God, but beyond the erotic, I sometimes encounter difficulties about how internal conflict can be translated into action, especially in longer non-erotic works. Does anyone have similar experiences?

I am working on a tragedy where two characters want each other, yet neither can have the other (Romeo and Juliet without the feud, so to speak).

I found it essential to first work up their desire for each other, so that when the moment arrives where they discover they cannot be together the internal conflict is obvious to the reader.

The characters have a conversation where I basically spell this out, but there are many visible/audible cues which convey the internal conflict.

I think it helps to develop a repetoire of A/V cues for emotions of all types, including internal conflict. Watching how people handle grief, anxiety, frustration, joy, charity, love ... certainly has helped me.

In a sense it is a form of method acting, for writers.

 

[sr71plt]

In erotica, or porn, most stories express external conflict ... a tension between the physical wants and desires of one or two (maybe more depending on the kink of the story) different characters that play back and forth until someone cums (we hope). But what of internal conflict? I know that an internal erotic conflict might consist of a a priest or nun (as basic example) at odds with masturbation in the face of God, but beyond the erotic, I sometimes encounter difficulties about how internal conflict can be translated into action, especially in longer non-erotic works. Does anyone have similar experiences?

I think the most use I get out internal conflict in my stories is having the protagonist wanting to do something but being too afraid to go over the edge and agonizing over it. I often use a foil to take them over the edge they really wanted to go over.

 

[CharleyH]

Sorry it's been so long. This thread fell down the page and there were so many other interesting things going on that I ended up getting sidetracked - apparently for months! Lol

Zodia195
So do you think there can be more than one inciting incident? I do.

As my beloved Lauren keeps telling me, 'if the story demands it... anything is possible'. This being said, I've always understood the inciting incident to be that one singular moment in a characters existence (conscious or not) that motivates him or her to react. It's this specific incident that must be resolved in some way by the end. This isn't to say that there aren't other inciting incidents throughout a story, but I might lean toward suggesting that they are minor obstacles more than inciting incidents. I can't think of a good example of multiple inciting incidents that drive a single story, but I can think of a fabulous example of an inciting incident that revolves around several other inciting incidents: The Bridge of San Luis Rey by Thornton Wilder. You need only read the first paragraph of the wiki to get the gist of what I'm trying to get at ... each individual story has an inciting incident that leads to the bridge, but it's Brother Juniper's story (his inciting incident) that binds it all together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bridge_of_San_Luis_Rey

Sunandshadow
Funny, I would have said the opposite, that romance and erotic stories tend to have a lot of internal conflict but not a lot of external conflict. For example there tends to be a lot of the main character being afraid that the other character will find them unattractive or perverted or weak, or the main character may have a fear of commitment or intimacy. But you don't see a lot of fistfights or gunfights lol.

LOL about the fights - true. I really don't know much about the romance genre. I don't write it and I'm not even going to attempt to discuss it. I think each writer has their own concept of whether a sex story is an internal or external tale. I suppose it depends on many things including POV. This being said, as much as my sex stories (none online anymore, sorry) have a dimension of internal struggle (which in a sex story works beautifully toward sexual tension) my opinion of sex stories is that they are as physical as any fight scene. Sex is simply physical.

Firebrain

Thank you. I guess I'm getting a bit lost in responding since I do try to flicker back and forth between discussing erotic and non-erotic writing. The beast I am writing is no easy task. It's non-erotic and based on an historical character who many would consider reprehensible. How to give good shape to such a villain? I think Bret Easton Ellis gave great shape to his American Psycho, Patrick Bateman. Nevertheless, my character is that bad, or worse, yet also regular and human. How to frame a story based completely on an internal struggle and no action? I prefer to write 1st person, but in this case it's not possible because the character is so biased and literally trapped in prison. I've decided to write it in a combo of 1st person present and 3rd person present ... the 3rd person being an historian looking through letters and journals of the first. I think it works without having to resort to flashbacks... per se.

I am a person with little time on my hands, but I will try to read the story Grumpy refers to ... Chairman of the Whored?

BLoved and SR7 ... sorry I haven't been able to respond to you, yet. I should have ... you two were the ones that actually brought me back to this thread.

 

[Munachi]

well i think internal and external conflicts are often connected, like, causing each other. at least i don't think i think about it a lot while writing - like, ah, this is the conflict, and this one is internal or external... but not sure... gotta think about this some more...

 

[XXplorher]

Nice thread. Real nice.

It’s a good question that may not have been properly defined while discussing it (through no fault of those getting involved; the feedback there was not only generous but truly useful. Helped resolve a current failing of my own, even.)

Literature tends to be internal. It can afford to be.
Cinema is, obviously, external. It can best advantage that.

Erotica... often forgets what it’s got going for it.


I agree that the finest erotica works around an internal conflict – acted upon externally. Yup.

 

[Jessica2]

The only conflict in that situation is strictly internal: In the man!! Society IS man and woman trying to live together in peace with a certain structure and moors (habits, counduct).

If a man has a conflict with that he should examine it very carefully. That conflict only exists in his mind so it's internal.