Is being a painslut caused by genetics or biological factors?

[lil_slave_rose]

What?

No, that's not what I was saying at all, I'm surprised anyone took it that way! Like I said, it was just bouncing different ideas around in my head. No, of course I am not comparing a neurological disorder to being a painslut.

i really didn't think so, *smiles* i was just clarifying for myself is all, no worries. i have changed my view a bit after reading everyone's posts and am now really wondering if maybe i AM wired differently. but i do think it's all in the way you 'register' the pain opposed to the kind of pain itself, now all i need to find out is if the reason i register it during sex/a scene as pleasurable because there's something wired in my head that way or just simply that when it's a sexual way, my brain registers it as pleasurable. great thread etoile and i will defiantly be coming back to read all the responses and maybe help answer the question.

 

[esclave_PP]

There was a thread that mentioned whether someone can be a "natural" slave, submissive, etc. That got me thinking, mainly about painsluts. Now, we know that pain is something created by the brain. It's a mental response designed to tell you "hey, something is wrong here!"

There are some people who have disorders that don't allow them to feel pain. It's extremely dangerous; as children these people are constantly getting burned, breaking bones, and injuring themselves badly. Little kids learn not to touch the stove by burning their hands, right? So if it doesn't hurt when you touch the hot stove, you can end up with major damage.

Which brings me to painsluts. I'm not saying they too have a disorder, of course. But if pain is supposed to tell you not to do something, and you LIKE pain...is there something about your brain that is telling it the pain is okay? Are painsluts, for lack of a better word, "wired differently" than people who don't enjoy pain?

An excellent question as usual. As a bonifide and dyed in the wool masochist, perhaps there is something different about my brain. I am ADD afterall and supposedly that makes me an alien or something anyhow. I think part of it is that there is "conditioning" and the amount of pain that "you" go through is increased slowly over time -- that you gain a tolerance.

Personally, I have to have pain or I can't cum, even if given permission to do so. Perhaps I am a freak but I don't think so. The pain for me increases the endorphin rush -- maybe that's why I like rollercoasters. Hmmmmm. I'll have to think on this more and see what Master thinks.

 

[leeroy jenkins]

For me when the pain is starting to be given I like to lean into and bring myself closer to the pain. Now if I can couple this with that whole disassociation thing I do in my head its good times. So right now I am just trying to allow the sensations to flow over and through me instead of reacting to it all the time.

 

[Kailey_86]

i think it has a lot to do with endorphins but i also think it has to do with what turns you on. A rape scene, for example, is a fantasy for many women but nobody wants to be raped for real. It still turns the women on though. Same goes for pain. The body uses pain to say that whatever is happening isn't good. It still turns the person on though. You can ask why painsluts like pain but you can also ask why someone with a foot fetish likes feet so much. Why would a foot bring sexual satisfaction? i hope all that made sense.

 

[TwitchnClit]

Pain Relief

SubtleOne has hit the nail on the head. My nail, anyway.

I, too, live day-in and day-out in grinding physical pain. And I never got into sexual pain until after this unpleasant pain began. It is really nice to be able to focus on "good pain" every now and then, isn't it?

Beyond genetics vs. biological, you've also got to consider environment and emotions.

 

[Dogwalker]

Etoile,
For the reasons you have stated, pain-seeking behaviour, even if genetic in some individuals, is unlikely to be favoured by natural selection to pass to future generations.
Unless, of course, sexual pain sluts are more attractive to certain virile and fertile men???
This possibility could be the subject for a very good story, not to mention a rather interesting breeding program!
D

There was a thread that mentioned whether someone can be a "natural" slave, submissive, etc. That got me thinking, mainly about painsluts. Now, we know that pain is something created by the brain. It's a mental response designed to tell you "hey, something is wrong here!"

There are some people who have disorders that don't allow them to feel pain. It's extremely dangerous; as children these people are constantly getting burned, breaking bones, and injuring themselves badly. Little kids learn not to touch the stove by burning their hands, right? So if it doesn't hurt when you touch the hot stove, you can end up with major damage.

Which brings me to painsluts. I'm not saying they too have a disorder, of course. But if pain is supposed to tell you not to do something, and you LIKE pain...is there something about your brain that is telling it the pain is okay? Are painsluts, for lack of a better word, "wired differently" than people who don't enjoy pain?

 

[Netzach]

Etoile,
For the reasons you have stated, pain-seeking behaviour, even if genetic in some individuals, is unlikely to be favoured by natural selection to pass to future generations.
Unless, of course, sexual pain sluts are more attractive to certain virile and fertile men???
This possibility could be the subject for a very good story, not to mention a rather interesting breeding program!
D

People who are masochistic are less likely to fuck? I don't get it.

People who like pain seem to like controlled amounts of it generally, or pain organized in a way that still protects the major organs. It's like saying liking basil in your eggplant parmesean is likely to get selected out of the gene pool.

 

[eastern sun]

. . .

I join the ranks of those who live with pain - migraines since I was 9 years old - and therefore have developed a special relationship with it.

When I am in a painful experience over which I have no control, I have learned that resisting it worsens the sensation. Whereas if I allow the pain and loosen my grips on my "self," through meditation or submissive sex, I no longer feel "pain." I feel a very strong, physical sensation that makes me incredibly alert and responsive. (obviously the endorphins kicked in)

If I ever lose trust in the situation though, the pain comes back and is almost unbearable.

The migraines are inherited. The behavior was learned.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Speaking of being wired differently...

Sexual behavior can also be effected by frontal lesions or tumors. Orbital frontal damage can introduce abnormal sexual behavior...

This little quote has given me a great deal to think about and in several directions. Although, I don't consider myself or my behavior abnormal, the author of the above probably would.

I'm not sure this post belongs in this thread... perhaps it belongs in my own since it means nothing to anyone else but me. I might delete it and move it. I'll think about it more.

 

[Etoile]

Oh, I think it does fit, ADR. I won't quote you in case you do decide to delete it, but I do think it's relevant from a brain-affecting-sexual-behavior perspective.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Oh, I think it does fit, ADR. I won't quote you in case you do decide to delete it, but I do think it's relevant from a brain-affecting-sexual-behavior perspective.

Well, it's probably of no interest to anyone but me so I did move it and expanded on it a bit. But I'll leave this one here anyway as it would look silly if I deleted it LOL.

;-)

 

[A Desert Rose]

I don't want to detract from your thread...

I'm not into pain so much as I'm into the person who wants to give it to me. There are occassions when I really really want a beating but it's not because I want to hurt so much as I need the attention and the emotional release I get from it.

Sometimes I so need that kind of attention (being an attention whore is not all it's cracked up to be) and it's usually when he's out of town. ;-( I mean, I'm not going to lie and say I do all for him. This is as much about me and my need to submit. I wouldn't be a submissive if I had no need to submit, right? And the circle is kinda complete when I submit to those things that, in turn meet his needs/desires. But the bottom line is that I do things because I love him, like you said. Not because I want to hurt a lot.

Everybody's happy... I think. Or maybe I've made absolutely no sense...

 

[liberatedslave]

I agree with ADR in that it's being into my Sir that allows me to enjoy the pain. It's all part of the thrill that accompanies sexual submission. Even within a scene though, there can be both good and bad pain. Punishment always hurts whereas pain dealt out for our mutual enjoyment gives me such a kick.

I think that a person's perception of a painful experience is the most vital factor:

> A runner will force himself beyond pain through exhiliration at the thought of winning a race.
> A painslut will push her limits and focus on the greater pleasure of pleasing her PYL.
> A child who will pick himself up happily after falling down will cry when spanked by his mother for a wrongdoing and will be upset at her anger.
> A sub will not enjoy a spanking given as a punishment, even though she can endure deeper pain during a scene. She will be upset at disappointing her PYL

I think that the root causes for different perceptions of pain are inbuilt as a survival mechanism. People in extreme situations (like that climber who had to cut his own arm off half way up a mountain) will endure pain that would immobilize them in a normal, everyday situation where the emergency services can be called and there is nothing they have to do but cope with the pain and get patched up. If their survival depends on it, everybody is capable of extraordinary endurance if they can focus on that survival and keep going.

I think that masochism is a kind of simulated version of this basic instinct. The body can endure if the frame of mind is right and the whole purpose of endorphines is to keep us functioning during extreme pain and/or fatigue. The safety factor of consensual BDSM allows the person to enjoy the pain, while the body is fooled into thinking the danger is real and unavoidable.

So going back to the original question, I'd say both.

 

[leeroy jenkins]

Well said liberatedslave.

 

[Kailey_86]

Well said liberatedslave.

i second that!

 

[Etoile]

Absolutely - an excellent post.

 

[the_pet]

Greetings All

I've often wondered this myself whether my need for pain is mental or physical. So many theories....

I enjoy pain
it gets me immediately sexually aroused
i have to have it to orgasm
if you're fucking me you better be pulling my hair, smacking my ass, twisting a nipple, tightening the rope, GIVE ME SOMETHING PLEASE
it's what i desire/crave
i can be doing the most mundane, unpleasant activity (smack my ass) and instantly IT IS ON!
and i'm not talking a pleasure pat, i want welp producing, leave a mark the next day pain


i've been told i was a pain slut
but i've also been told i'm just plain DEVIANT
but that leads me sometimes to wonder
"what constitutes being a pain slut"

i'll start another thread so as to not jack this one


pet

 

[tzigane]

from a science-geek perspective...

I wrote a paper on pain processing for one of my classes in undergrad. From the receptor level up, pain's the most complex of our senses - the number of brain structures involved just in the sensation of pain is incredible. And once you get to the perception part, there are even more.

The current theory on pain perception is that there are four stages which feed into each other: sensory-discriminative, affective, cognitive, and behavioral. Sensory-discriminative is the most basic and pretty much just tells you where the pain is. Affective is your immediate emotional response, and doesn't involve much contribution from thought or personality. These two stages are pretty much the same across the board (varying to some extent between individuals, of course) unless you have one of the disorders that have been talked about before. The cognitive stage is also called suffering, and is your perception of the impact that this pain is going to have on your life - it's dependent on the context and the cause of the pain, as well as personality factors. And then the behavioral stage is your overt expression of the pain you are feeling.

So...I think that part of the difference may be in the threshold level of stimulation a person requires to feel pain (I know that mine is higher than most of the 'nilla folks I know, as is my SO's), which is primarily genetic, but that most of it is probably in the cognitive and behavioral dimensions of the processing, which is a little genetic but mostly environmental. Painsluts have come to associate pain with pleasure, for whatever reason. Also, it's the same thing that a lot of you have said about the context of the pain - if it's in a scene or related to sex, your interpretation of it is a lot different than the slamming your hand in the door or the migraine sort of pain.

That said, I do think it's possible to get addicted to the endorphins. Beyond the enjoying running for the clarity sort of thing - more like people who become exercise addicts. From my own experience, I think the endorphin addiction is related to things like chronic self-injury. Not necessarily, though, to enjoying or deriving sexual pleasure from pain. (Interestingly, I don't think I started doing that until I'd stopped the SI.)

What do you all think? Is being a painslut the same thing as being a pain addict? If the person who inflicts the pain wasn't around, would you need pain so badly that you'd cause it yourself?

This is a bit long, my apologies. I just think pain's fascinating, from both an academic and a personal perspective!

 

[the_pet]

What do you all think? Is being a painslut the same thing as being a pain addict? If the person who inflicts the pain wasn't around, would you need pain so badly that you'd cause it yourself?

/QUOTE]


Yes....... i'm often left alone to my own devices and will inflict my own pain and discomfort if i'm in the mood. I won't wait or do without just because there no one around to do it for me

 

[TwitchnClit]

How Can I Self-inflict Pain for Pleasure

to The Pet and anyone else with suggestions:

Be a dear and tell me some of the ways that you find to pleasure yourself with pain. I'm not just seeking a voyeuristic turn-on [can it be voyeuristic through words alone?] although I'm sure just reading about your techniques and tips will get me aroused. I want to include some delicious pain with my self-pleasure during my next masturbation session.

My pain preference is a spanked bare ass, forced mouthfuck, nipple pain [but not torture] and having my pussy stung with a whip or flogger through my leather thong. Just thought my prefs might help you make a few suggestions.

I want, no, I need to pleasure myself painfully NOW and any other time there's no one around to help me.

I anxiously await your replies... Make Me Twitch!

 

[nh23]

so why..

.....